1st cycle of only Test Prop, need advice on PCT

[Phantom001]

Thanks Ez E so heres a dumb question, i read you shouldnt use hcg for pct and only to blast right before you do if you notice shrinkage or on cycle to maintain testie size. I have also seen many different recommended doses. So if I do not have any major shrinkage what would be the purpose of taking it? Wouldnt HCGen/post cycle and unleashed be enough to get me going again, keep in mind my t levels were just under 400 pre cycle which is cool for a 60 year old. I plan on having another panel done in 2 weeks to see where my levels are now and then 3 days after last pin and I was thinking if my level is the same as it was pre cycle or higher I would be good just using the OTC stuff now that I know about it. I really thought I had my PCT figured out before I started reading all the threads on this forum.

 

[Xandoz]

The thought that jumps out is that it's a terrible idea to be using AAS after not having trained for 3 years

I agree but now he needs to do a PCT because he did.

 

[goin on 4T]

To stop the prop PIP you should get a vial of sterile grape seed oil. Draw your prop into the barrel of the syringe then draw an equal amount of sterile gs oil. Try to shake it some and/or put it under warm running water to help mix the two. Then inject.
Prop becomes painless for most people at 65mg/ml.

 

[goin on 4T]

That is a lot of prop for someone who hasn't worked out for 3 years. Injured or not IMHO you would be better off running lighter 6 week cycles. Better for your nads. And yes you NEED to run pct.

 

[Phantom001]

Thanks goin on 4t. I think I will cut back the dose to the 65 first to see if that helps, my dude just keeps telling me its virgin muscle and thats why and over the next couple of weeks it wont be a thing. I have been searching everywhere to\rying to find more info on your suggestion of going to a 6 week lower dose cycle instead of the 8-10 with the current 1cc dose i was planning or started doing, so far the only thing i found is that my ligaments wont be able to keep up with the growth and weight, is there another reason besides that, that made you suggest that. I diff do not want to hurt myself and end up back on the sidelines. Thanks to everyone for all your insight

 

[EZ_E]

Thanks Ez E so heres a dumb question, i read you shouldnt use hcg for pct and only to blast right before you do if you notice shrinkage or on cycle to maintain testie size. I have also seen many different recommended doses. So if I do not have any major shrinkage what would be the purpose of taking it? Wouldnt HCGen/post cycle and unleashed be enough to get me going again, keep in mind my t levels were just under 400 pre cycle which is cool for a 60 year old. I plan on having another panel done in 2 weeks to see where my levels are now and then 3 days after last pin and I was thinking if my level is the same as it was pre cycle or higher I would be good just using the OTC stuff now that I know about it. I really thought I had my PCT figured out before I started reading all the threads on this forum.

That's not a dumb question, you're correct blast HCG at the end of the cycle....I've heard of guys using HCG while on, during PCT, or end of cycle/beginning of PCT....

As for using Unleashed/Post Cycle/HCGen; that may work, too...there are probably a lot of opinions on this...

~EZ

 

[Phantom001]

for anyone else reading this that is in my situation and has questions about the PCT please read the sticky by Nelson montana for the best PCT as of 2010. That just broke everything down exactly the way I needed it.

I am almost 3 weeks into the cycle and will start hcgenerate as soon as it comes in this week since I havent seen any shrinkage yet I am hoping its not tooo late. I focused soo much on planning my diet, routine and cycle I really overlooked the true importance of a quality PCT so here is what I have decided to to do

HCGenerate-running it for the last 5 weeks of my cycle and then 4 weeks post cycle
Aromasin-running 4 weeks after last pin (I am unsure if this is the proper run time)
Unleashed-running for 8 weeks starting 2 weeks before last pin
Post cycle-same as unleashed
forma stanzol-been running it since day 1 and will continue through cycle and 4 weeks post cycle

I have decided since no shrinkage has occurred I will not do HCG but if it does start to happen then I will blast some to kick start ball regrowth, I would appreciate any thoughts or concerns anyone has on my plan but please back up your suggestion/thoughts with your reasoning so I can understand why

I think my saving grace and possibly why I havent seen shrinkage to this point and still good loads is the use of vitex, does anyone know if I should discontinue the use of this once I start the HCGenerate? I cannot find any info online about the use of things 2 supps in conjunction with each other.

Can anyone tell me about the rep for purchasepetides? Sorry if this question is on the not to do list, just curious about the quality of the company

 

[Phantom001]

I think I answered my own question about vitex. I am going to continue the use and work it in permanently to my vitamin routine after my PCT is complete. I wish I could take credit for this and it may be better suited for another area of this forum. Once again I copied this info and is not my own words but there seems to be alot of point/counterpoint info on this site about vitex and any feedback on the accuracy of reasoning below would be great.

"Vitex is an LH increasing agent. Clomid is
also. Vitex (unlike Clomid) seems to
decrease prolactin levels (this is a good
thing in bb'ers for sure as increases in
prolactin can lead to a rare type of
gyno...probably/posibly the gyno the occassional trenbolone user experiences but
I am speculating here for sure).

Go get a physiology text and see what LH
does in men and women (not the same thing,
that is for sure).

In a nutshell, LH is the hormone that
regulate testosterone secretion in men.
Vitex increases LH. Do the math. Now
FSH *may* increase testosterone levels in
men by inducing maturation of the Leydig
cells in your nuts and Vitex does decrease
FSH. But fuck, it's a trade off I would
do for sure, because while FSH *may* help
a little, LH is the big kehuna here without
*ANY* doubts at all!!!

Also prolactin tends to inhibit both LH and
FSH so if you ace the prolactin, you get
more LH and FSH. Vitex does this quite
well. Prolactin can also directly inhibit
spermatogenesis so Vitex is probabky a help there too.

I am guessing that Vitex will have an effect
of a hybrid between HCG and Clomid. HCG
has almost no FSH type effect and a lot of
LH effect.

So Vitex, even though it is known as a female's
herb, has a profound effect in men.

Let's talk about women and why they would
use Vitex.

Estrogen (in women) works in a *POSITIVE*
feedback loop to increase LH. LOWER ESTROGEN = MORE LH!!! LH is what causes follicle maturation and ovulation to occur (along with FSH).

Progesterone is primarily made in the corpus
luteum of the follicle (in the ovary during
the "luteal phase" of the menstrual cycle).

So if you give a woman Vitex, LH increases
which will stimulate the Graffian follicle
to maturity and increase progesterone.

Men don't have ovaries and thus, Vitex won't
increase progesterone in men for this reason.

Estrogens are also produced in the ovaries.
LH (and FSH more so) will also effect this.

Men don't have ovaries.

Vitex will not increase estrogen in men unless
the extra testosterone secreted by using
Vitex leads to more aromatization into
estrogens.

Anovulatory women can sometimes benefit from
Vitex for the same reason they do with Clomid
or HCG (or HMG). Clomid is better than Vitex
(in theory) for infertile women because it
acts as an anti-estrogen at the pituitary
and will cause FSH levels to rise allowing for
maturation of the ova (you need both FSH and
LH for optimal fertility...Vitex doesn't
work optimally but it does help in something
like 70% of the cases).

Just as a heads up, LH seems to regulate
the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone
and FSH seems to regulate THE AROMATIZATION
of androgens to estrogens in the follicle.

Additionally...as estrogen levels rise, so
does FSH while LH decreases. As estrogen
levels drop, FSH decreases and LH increases.

This might explain why Vitex inhibits FSH. ' end quote,

not sure if I can share where I pulled this from but if you would like to know I will share. Now in my own words viex given to surpress monks sex drive was in very low doses and women take 20mg to 400mg per day, men should be up around 800-1000, as I take 1000mg per day

 

[patternsco]

id seriously get back in the gym and train natural for a good 6-12 months mate, and if you werent a heavy gym goer before maybe even 2 years. you wont get the best out of aas otherwise. just my 2 pennies

 

[needtogetaas]

My apologies in advance if this question is redundant or belongs in another area.
stats and cycle
6'1"
230 at start of cycle
36 years old
1st cycle
inactive in the gym for last 3 years due to shoulder injury
1cc of test (83mg of test) 6 days a week with sundays off
running for 8-10 weeks
taking on cycle
1000mg of vitex per day no off time
Forma stanzol gel on cycle no off time
200mg of milk thistle no off time
Finpecia- (DHT blocker for hair loss, was on it prior to for baldness) 10 mg per day no off time
2 weeks into cycle and down to 223lbs with good strength gains and starting to become more defined but still have along way to go

My question is what is really needed for a PCT. A co worker who is very knowledgeable is training me, he has won 1st in 2 am comps and took 3rd in a national comp so I trust his opinion but I am seeing alot of contradicting info online. I was told since test prop is short based that unless I see side affects no PCT is really needed but my concern is natural test production post cycle . I had 2 people tell me that since I am using vitex that unless i see gyno not to worry about it, I read about HCG but that really is to gain back testie size if shrinkage occurs and colimd really doesn't trigger natural production. I plan on having my test levels tested in 2 weeks and then again 3 days post cycle.

I think regardless of what worked for my trainer that I still want something to jump start test production post cycle but theres so much info out there and hoping you guys can help give me some solid feedback. I have seen articles on longjack that sounded promising, Thoughts and please let me know if I left out any info that you guys need to see.

YOu and your friend should read this thread

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/natural-post-cycle-therapy-holistic-cycle-support-drug-steroid-user-bible-778853.html

And this is the PCT after the cycle that I advise now.
Starting the day the cycle ends regardless of the cycle
Weeks
1-6 Forma-stanzol 5 pumps am and pm every day for the first 4 weeks drop down to 3 and 3 for the last 2 weeks
1-4 phytoserm-347 a cap 1 and 1 cap pm every day
2-6 D-spark 2 caps am 2 caps pm
1-4 N2guard full dose every day spread out 2/2/3 ( optional)
3-9 LGD-4033 5mg every morning ( optional)

I also feel hcgenerate the last 4 weeks of the cycle 3 caps am 2 caps pm is important as well.