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slobberknocker
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mikes20 said:
17alpha alkylated steroids: Are some worse than others?
- Thread starter pennypacker
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slobberknocker
Guest
DOES 17AA, MG FOR MG, CAUSE EQUAL TOXICITY, REGARDLESS OF WHICH STEROID????
Let's get INFO, no flimsy opinions or hearsay.
Let's get INFO, no flimsy opinions or hearsay.
pennypacker
New member
sk*,
Does that mean that you think winstrol is NOT as hard on the liver as dbol?
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slobberknocker
Guest
sk* said:
I believe it had something to do with the amount of bonds needed to be broken down by the liver, and the more bonds the greater the toxicity.
I would like to hear more on this.
Yea does anyone have some medical (or actiual chemistry info on this: montana maybe) I looked into it a while back in some medical journals etc and came across nothing. different 17 aa's have to be broken down at least slightly differently, Not all the coumpounds are the same its just the 17 aa position that is identical. If anyone has any info on how the liver oxodizes and reduces anabolic steroids please get some info up!
OX
I think the "17AA" molecule is the same regardless of the drug. The difference is that drugs like OX are more anabolic and less androgenic than drugs like D-Bol, Anadrol, etc.
In other words - when you take 40 MG of OX, you get a desired result, no androgenic sides, and little exposure to the 17AA molecule.
VS.
When you take D-Bol or Anadrol you must take more of the drug to achieve a desired effect...not to mention these drugs are androgenic.
At least that is my understanding.
I think the "17AA" molecule is the same regardless of the drug. The difference is that drugs like OX are more anabolic and less androgenic than drugs like D-Bol, Anadrol, etc.
In other words - when you take 40 MG of OX, you get a desired result, no androgenic sides, and little exposure to the 17AA molecule.
VS.
When you take D-Bol or Anadrol you must take more of the drug to achieve a desired effect...not to mention these drugs are androgenic.
At least that is my understanding.
Fukkenshredded
New member
A little insight about relative toxicity...
(I reworded this slightly for clarification))
All oral steroids have the 17 alpha alkylation, a chemical bond that must be broken before the drug becomes bioavailable.
Now, some steroids, like winstrol, have an additional bond that adds to its toxicity. Most orals have either one or two chemical bonds that need to be broken down in order to render the steroid bioavailable.
The reason why Halotestin is the harshest on the liver is because halo incorporates a combination of three chemical bonds that are all toxic features. These include a 17-a methyl group, a 9-a fluorine, and a 11-OH group.
Halotestin alone has all three of these bonds.
The chemical name for fluoxymesterone is androst-4-en-3-one, 9-fluoro11,17-dihydroxy-1,7-methyl-,(11b,7b)-. So we see that it has 17A methyl(17alpha alkylated), which is indeed toxic. This is the bond that gives us the name 17aa, and the one that is common among all orals.
The second arrangement that Halotestin contains is 9-alpha fluorine (fuorine is used to protect substances from breaking down, as with sodium fluoride, etc). This version of Fluorine is also very toxic.
Lastly, halotestin contains some of the 11-Hydroxyl Group which is must be enzymatically reduced to the corresponding 11-hydroxy derivative before becoming biologically active. This reaction is carried out by a distinct 11-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase isozyme in the liver that operates in a reductive capacity.
This process alone is very toxic, not just to the liver, but to the kidneys.
These are, specifically, the three bonds that Fonz has repeatedly referred to in his posts about tis drug's toxicity. He unfortunately one time used the phrase 'triple bond', which led to some dispute because it is not actually a triple bond, but three seperate chemical bonds (which is what he already knew, but others misunderstood).
The idea that all orals are equally toxic is a dangerous one. They are not. Do your research to understand the differences.
With halotestin, andronergic activity is increased 10 times and anabolic activity increased 20 times over that of 17-a methyl testosterone. This gives you an idea of its efficacy, and why it is such a favorite for those looking for added strength.
(I reworded this slightly for clarification))
All oral steroids have the 17 alpha alkylation, a chemical bond that must be broken before the drug becomes bioavailable.
Now, some steroids, like winstrol, have an additional bond that adds to its toxicity. Most orals have either one or two chemical bonds that need to be broken down in order to render the steroid bioavailable.
The reason why Halotestin is the harshest on the liver is because halo incorporates a combination of three chemical bonds that are all toxic features. These include a 17-a methyl group, a 9-a fluorine, and a 11-OH group.
Halotestin alone has all three of these bonds.
The chemical name for fluoxymesterone is androst-4-en-3-one, 9-fluoro11,17-dihydroxy-1,7-methyl-,(11b,7b)-. So we see that it has 17A methyl(17alpha alkylated), which is indeed toxic. This is the bond that gives us the name 17aa, and the one that is common among all orals.
The second arrangement that Halotestin contains is 9-alpha fluorine (fuorine is used to protect substances from breaking down, as with sodium fluoride, etc). This version of Fluorine is also very toxic.
Lastly, halotestin contains some of the 11-Hydroxyl Group which is must be enzymatically reduced to the corresponding 11-hydroxy derivative before becoming biologically active. This reaction is carried out by a distinct 11-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase isozyme in the liver that operates in a reductive capacity.
This process alone is very toxic, not just to the liver, but to the kidneys.
These are, specifically, the three bonds that Fonz has repeatedly referred to in his posts about tis drug's toxicity. He unfortunately one time used the phrase 'triple bond', which led to some dispute because it is not actually a triple bond, but three seperate chemical bonds (which is what he already knew, but others misunderstood).
The idea that all orals are equally toxic is a dangerous one. They are not. Do your research to understand the differences.
With halotestin, andronergic activity is increased 10 times and anabolic activity increased 20 times over that of 17-a methyl testosterone. This gives you an idea of its efficacy, and why it is such a favorite for those looking for added strength.
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slobberknocker
Guest
Awesome post! Karma.
Great post FS. As mentioned, some drugs are toxic beyond the 17 AA and I'm glad you clarified the science behind it -- especially concerning Halo .
I've always thought of Halo as a "non consideration" due to its reputaion for causing kidney problems in many users. But of course, you'll always hear from those who refuse to believe it.
Some of you may remember when Winstrol was considered virtually non toxic. That was because studies used therepeutic dosages. The same goes for Ox. The standard dose is 5 mgs a day but NOBODY uses 5 mgs a day for BB purposes. Naturally, there aren't too many studies done with the 40 mgs dose range becuse...well, you're not supossed to do that. Although Ox is certainly milder in many ways than other orals, people shouldn't assume it's as safe as Sweet Tarts. I get that impression from some members sometimes.
Karma to FS.
I've always thought of Halo as a "non consideration" due to its reputaion for causing kidney problems in many users. But of course, you'll always hear from those who refuse to believe it.
Some of you may remember when Winstrol was considered virtually non toxic. That was because studies used therepeutic dosages. The same goes for Ox. The standard dose is 5 mgs a day but NOBODY uses 5 mgs a day for BB purposes. Naturally, there aren't too many studies done with the 40 mgs dose range becuse...well, you're not supossed to do that. Although Ox is certainly milder in many ways than other orals, people shouldn't assume it's as safe as Sweet Tarts. I get that impression from some members sometimes.
Karma to FS.
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