true (read post #10) should have tweaked the payout odds better ya know thats a weakness i should have had u help, really no different than doing 2 threads 1 @ 8.5 1 @ 9.5 spread xept people cant bet both threads, which could be good for me if its a 9 point game, they could bet the +9.5 browns -8.5 giants in a 2 thread format, are we on the same page with what your thinkin, in other words its a lose lose for me win win for the player if its a 9 point game but it would be amplified if they could bet both in the above mentioned strategy, the odds of that are very bad but it could happen....true or am i missin sumpthin. I gave this very little thought before acting..........my lifes theme