1 year plan..

[athlete.03]

In my experience, it's difficult to predict that far into the future what the results will be like. But yeah, I'd strongly recommend not training 2X per day. I've done it before with great results, too. But if you do it once per day with double the intensity you'll probably get even better results. I know I did.

 

[satchboogie]

jay cutler also trains 2x per day!!!!
watch his dvd's and learn.

WILL B HUGE..

you have the right idea bro.
i dont believe once a week per bodypart is even close to enough for maximal growth.
sure they'll grow on once per week..
but every 4-5 days is more beneficial when bulking!!

thanks brotha..

 

[Joe Stenson]

Why the hell dont you back your you are one of the only ones claiming this stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The idea is to achieve a stimulus for growth with the LEAST amount of effort possible because then your recovery time is shorter and you can hit the gym again sooner. It also puts the least stress on your central nervous system, which is typically what gets "overtrained" if anything is going to.

If your calories are sufficient, and you're progressively increasing the weights you're lifting, don't you think you'd grow better hitting a bodypart 8 times in a month as opposed to 4?

Why are you better off hammering a bodypart into submission with a ton of sets to failure, only to need a week or longer to recover from the session? The most anabolic time for a muscle to grow is in the few days following the workout. Once these heightened state of anabolism dies, what's needed? More stimulus. What's the point of waiting another 3-4 days to hit the bodypart again? You're just missing out on growth time.

WILL B HUGE..

you have the right idea bro.
i dont believe once a week per bodypart is even close to enough for maximal growth.
sure they'll grow on once per week..
but every 4-5 days is more beneficial when bulking!!

thanks brotha..

*scratches head*

will b huge is the guy saying you can't hit a bodypart more than once/week...

 

[timtim]

joe - your volume and intensity stuff sounds like fred hatfield, is that where these ideas are stemming. i've heard it before but never tried it. i have seen splits where there are 3 training intensities: low, medium, and hard and you mix and match the days so there are more light sessions than heavy. i think that was the set up.

will b - there is more than 1 way to train, it's called periodization. training all out works but not week in and week out.

 

[Smokescreen]

jay cutler also trains 2x per day!!!!
watch his dvd's and learn.

WILL B HUGE..

you have the right idea bro.
i dont believe once a week per bodypart is even close to enough for maximal growth.
sure they'll grow on once per week..
but every 4-5 days is more beneficial when bulking!!

thanks brotha..

Satch. I hope we squashed the crap. I just like to say that I'm with you on this. I know where you want to go. I know your type. You remind me of.....ME! You got a plan for everything. That is good. Stick with it and do it! Just don't be like me. Where things or people or so-called " acts of god " are always preventing me from acheiving my goals. I'm watching you! Don't let me down! We are all watching you! DO NOT DISAPPOINT US!!!

 

[Smokescreen]

Bro! Use the fucking Slin! You'll go from this...

To this...

And then this...

 

[Joe Stenson]

joe - your volume and intensity stuff sounds like fred hatfield, is that where these ideas are stemming. i've heard it before but never tried it. i have seen splits where there are 3 training intensities: low, medium, and hard and you mix and match the days so there are more light sessions than heavy. i think that was the set up.

I may have read Fred's stuff, I'm not sure. The fact is that almost no one is recommending the "traditional" bodybuilder-style splits anymore. They were a few years ago, but things have changed. Look at the tremendous response for madcow's (or Bill Starr's) 5x5 on this board, and that's squatting 3 times/week. (Interestingly enough, Needsize actually likes the sound of this 5x5 routine more than the one he made up years ago, which was hitting each bodypart once/week.) Then you've got HST, which uses a few different principles but is still 3 full body workouts/week, and all the science backing it.

I'm not surprised that so many people still hit a bodypart only once/week as it's what they've been doing for years. Human beings are very stubborn by nature. But if you can show me some RECENT research that has been done that demonstrates that that's more effective I'd be shocked.

Times change. If people want to be left behind, that's their perogative, not mine.

will b - there is more than 1 way to train, it's called periodization. training all out works but not week in and week out.

Agreed. I've trained balls-to-the-wall before as well, and after reading a lot of the recent literature decided to give the lower volume, more frequent sessions thing a try and think it's been much more effective.

Basically each workout you do for a bodypart is contributing to its growth, so the more workouts you can get in during a given time period, the better your gains should be. This, however, must be balanced against proper recovery time, which is where the lower volume comes into play.

 

[will b huge]

My entire point for chiming in here (besides to give props to Satch) was the post by Joe Stenson that said "Train all body parts 2 times per week" whether bulking or cutting"....


It was a dumb statement-----NOBODY TRAINS CHEST, BIS, TRIS, BACK, SHOULDERS, TRAPS, ABS, QUADS, HAMS, CALVES, ETC...TWICE A WEEK EVERY WEEK........


SURE SATCH---if you want to hit it every 4 or 5 days ----thats great....and usually the norm....but almost all people take either 2 or 3 days off per week...and that would never get all muscle parts in TWICE in one week.every week.....

(He said that in every 7 day period---you train all bodyparts twice----that is how the post was written)
Please show me how you'd train all of these bodyparts 2x in one week.......Id love to see this....

Are you going to do this:
Monday-Chest/Bis/Shoulders
Tuesday-Back/Tris/Abs
Wednesday-Quads/Hams/Calves
Thursday--Chest/Bis/Shoulders again
Friday--Back/Tris/Abs again
Saturday--Quads/Hams/Calves again

This would clearly be the dumbest thing I've seen----not to mention who would get a good workout doing CHEST/ BICEPS/ SHOULDERS in the same workout??????



To be honest, I would normally just not responded to a post like that----but I keep seeing these posts from this guy time and time again-----I asked him one time what he was doing in the thread-----his honest answer was that he likes to play the devils advocate because there is NO right answer!!!!

Please see this thread to get an idea of what I mean, Especially page 3 on of this thread........

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5094593#post5094593

 

[Joe Stenson]

To be honest, I would normally just not responded to a post like that----but I keep seeing these posts from this guy time and time again-----I asked him one time what he was doing in the thread-----his honest answer was that he likes to play the devils advocate because there is NO right answer!!!!

Correct. There is no "right" answer. Timtim just stated that as well. And I said I've trained your way before (and yes I saw results), but the way I'm presenting I feel is better.

And I already gave a very typical split above, but here it is written out more clearly:

Mon- Upper body
Tue- Lower body
Wed - Off
Thurs- Upper body
Fri- Lower body
Sat- Off
Sun- Off

When you are doing low volume it isn't difficult to hit the entire upper body or entire lower body in a single session.


Here is Bill Starr's 5x5 from the training board:

The 5X5:

Monday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (same weight)
Benching 5x5 (flat, close grip or regular)(same weight)
JS Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs)

Wednesday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (reduced 15-20% from Monday) or Front Squats 5x5
Standing Military Press 5x5 (same weight)
Deadlifts 5x5 (same weight) (if you pull 2.5x bodyweight do 3x5)
Pull ups 5x5 (use weight if you need it)
Accessory (biceps and abs)

Friday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (working up each set)
Benching 5x5 (flat or incline)(same weight)
Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs)


And then you have HST:

Mon/Wed/Fri: Full body
Tue/Thurs/Sat/Sun: Off

There's 3 examples. You could play around with all of them and come up with tons of different splits.

 

[van_wilder]

My entire point for chiming in here (besides to give props to Satch) was the post by Joe Stenson that said "Train all body parts 2 times per week" whether bulking or cutting"....


It was a dumb statement-----NOBODY TRAINS CHEST, BIS, TRIS, BACK, SHOULDERS, TRAPS, ABS, QUADS, HAMS, CALVES, ETC...TWICE A WEEK EVERY WEEK........


SURE SATCH---if you want to hit it every 4 or 5 days ----thats great....and usually the norm....but almost all people take either 2 or 3 days off per week...and that would never get all muscle parts in TWICE in one week.every week.....

(He said that in every 7 day period---you train all bodyparts twice----that is how the post was written)
Please show me how you'd train all of these bodyparts 2x in one week.......Id love to see this....

Are you going to do this:
Monday-Chest/Bis/Shoulders
Tuesday-Back/Tris/Abs
Wednesday-Quads/Hams/Calves
Thursday--Chest/Bis/Shoulders again
Friday--Back/Tris/Abs again
Saturday--Quads/Hams/Calves again

This would clearly be the dumbest thing I've seen----not to mention who would get a good workout doing CHEST/ BICEPS/ SHOULDERS in the same workout??????



To be honest, I would normally just not responded to a post like that----but I keep seeing these posts from this guy time and time again-----I asked him one time what he was doing in the thread-----his honest answer was that he likes to play the devils advocate because there is NO right answer!!!!

Please see this thread to get an idea of what I mean, Especially page 3 on of this thread........

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5094593#post5094593

HST... I've used it and saw great gains while bulking!
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

I was pretty skeptical at first as well.... but it did work for me! i like switching back and forth between the HST and my own modified 5 x 5 routine...
VW