Do you think we should legalize drugs?

[Immortal Juicer]

I'm not talking about juice here, illegal drugs like cocaine, marijuana, and ecstacy. I'm writing a paper for my philosophy class and I just started checking it out. I know stats can be manipulated to show anything but when John Ashcroft said cocaine was as big a business as AOL yesterday, I got curious.

Americans spend 62 billion a year on illegal drugs
Federal govt spends 18 billion a year on enforcement
It costs 315 million a year to house non violent drug offenders

Thats 62 billion worth of revenue if the govt regulated it or at least 62 billion that could be taxed. 18 billion that could be used for prevention and treatment. 315 million saved in addition to the earnings the inmates could have taxed if they worked.

Not to mention all the govt resources that could be used to fight terrorism. If the govt was the coke dealer, we could cut into terrorist financing and increase our budget.

This has got to be the most fucked up backward situation I've heard of in a long time.

I just started looking into it though so I'm sure there is another side to the story. What are the pros and cons?

Thanks.

 

[manny78]

There's a difference between cocaine/heroine and weed. It isn't the same. Yes I would definitely legalize weed.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

There's a difference between cocaine/heroine and weed. It isn't the same. Yes I would definitely legalize weed.

how do you decide where to draw the line? alot of people dont want weed legal but they have no problem with alcohol and tobacco being legal.

 

[manny78]

how do you decide where to draw the line? alot of people dont want weed legal but they have no problem with alcohol and tobacco being legal.

how do I draw the line ? one is far more dangerous than the other. Cocaine/heroine are definitely in another category.

 

[Sushi X]

my political party and i belive that at least decriminalizing drugs will keep prison costs down thus less money is needed from the people(tax payers) which helps reduce taxes and keeps the prisons from being overpopulated.

 

[b fold the truth]

When I think about ANY illegal drug...I think about it this way. Do I want my 8 year old son using it? What about my daughter? When they go to grade school...or high school...do I want them using these things? No. I find smoking highly repulsive and wish that it was illegal too..but that is just my opinion.

B True

 

[Lao Tzu]

my opinion is we should determine what drugs are dangerous, what aren't, what have valid treatments, etc. and reformat the drug laws.

alcohol & cigarettes should be illegal, but getting high on opium when we have a variety of methods to hepl addiction to them (buprex, methadone, ibogaine, etc) shouldn't be. It is just someone having fun in a socially unacceptable way.

 

[JohnyJuice]

Drugs being illegal is the reson they are such a problem. Making drugs illegal is what has the price of pot at 50 bucks an eigth instead of 1 dollar. Plants like marijuana and poppi (opium, heroin,etc) would be worth no more than a head of lettuce. The legal age to buy them should be 21, like liquor. Less people in jail, less taxes paid to support bullshit war on drugs, and these items could be taxed to raise revenue for the gov. If you would use heroin anyway, you are an asshole. At least let the assholes get pure shit that isnt cut with battery acid.

 

[dballer]

alcohol & cigarettes should be illegal, but getting high on opium when we have a variety of methods to hepl addiction to them (buprex, methadone, ibogaine, etc) shouldn't be. It is just someone having fun in a socially unacceptable way.

Buprenex is buprenorphine... the shit is addictive as crack cocaine and just as evil to withdrawl from.

 

[Crazier]

I posted this earlier today. The questions below may be able to help you with your paper... at least with pot anyway.

The questions are legitimate, and if included in your paper, I'm sure your paper would be an interesting one. Here ya go:

I start to think about the legalization, and I usually have to stop. I get so damn pissed off about the ignorance our country has towards pot. Citizen's have been brainwashed by our government to believe that pot is an evil drug.

How can people be so damn ignorant?

Envision a weed bar that is open right across the street from a bar that sells alcohol. After a year of evaluating the two bar's...

Which one would have the cops called to their bar more often?

Which one would be the cause of more DUI accidents?

What would be the difference of the atmosphere be between the two bars?

Which would have more fights?

Which bar would drive a husband to go home and kick the shit out of his wife more frequently?

Which would cause more health problems?

Which would cause people to miss work the following day more often?

American's are blinded by their ignorance. Most are ignorant in the same way they are ignorant of God. They have accepted the majority, they have accepted the words of the powerful politicians, without questions.

Answer the above questions... each answer is alcohol. Hands down.

The Pot bar across the street would be a friendly, happy, spiritual environment.

If there is one thing I wish I could change, it would be what bar's serve in this country.
--

 

[mrbill]

yes...and I don't even do drugs so I am not biased

 

[huntmaster]

When I think about ANY illegal drug...I think about it this way. Do I want my 8 year old son using it? What about my daughter? When they go to grade school...or high school...do I want them using these things? No.

B True

Ditto!

 

[Immortal Juicer]

When I think about ANY illegal drug...I think about it this way. Do I want my 8 year old son using it? What about my daughter? When they go to grade school...or high school...do I want them using these things? No. I find smoking highly repulsive and wish that it was illegal too..but that is just my opinion.

B True

I dont think anyone would want their son or daughter to do drugs, but that is the responsibility of the parent. I'm going to explain to my son or daughter the facts about drugs so that they know why they make their decisions. Instead of teaching them 10 different ways to say no to drugs, I'm going to teach them why to say no to drugs. Kids can see through bullshit and once you lose their trust, you are fucked.

Although ideally nobody would want to take drugs, in reality we are spending over 60 million on them despite the fact that they are against the law. They say that drugs are so bad for you, but there must be something good about them.

Do you think there would be a 60 million dollar black market for Frostys or Big Macs if they were criminalized?

The facts are: there is a huge demand for illegal drugs. The govt is spending millions trying to prohibit its own citizens from getting something they want. In every aspect, the war on drugs is a failure. Terrorists are benefiting.

It doesnt affect only drug dealers and users, it affects everyone in the nation.

WTF?

oh, and I agree that alcohol is much worse than most drugs but I dont want to try to justify my argument by saying two wrongs make a right.

 

[Crazier]

oh, and I agree that alcohol is much worse than most drugs but I dont want to try to justify my argument by saying two wrongs make a right.

Neither do I.

Ban alcohol, legalize pot.

Oh... and ban cigarettes while you're at it. That shit kills more people a year than the next 3 on the list combined. Yet, they are on every street corner.

You can't advertise cig's. You can alcohol though. Geez... how poor the NFL would be without Bud Light and all the other alcoholic pushing companies out there.

Fucking faggots.
--

 

[Kahn]

Thats 62 billion worth of revenue if the govt regulated it or at least 62 billion that could be taxed.
Thanks.

Nah, if it got legalized, the income for Uncle Sugar would be about $63.75. The legal status is why we pay so much for what we do(if we do). The Gov make their cash by having the black market fucking us up(cops, lawyers, courts, ATF,rehabs, treatments,doctors,yap yap yap......). They know what they are doing.

 

[Virtual Acid]

Ha, i would legalize weed baby MmMm but thats about it,, all that other shit , naw i dont need it ,

 

[huntmaster]

I dont think anyone would want their son or daughter to do drugs, but that is the responsibility of the parent. I'm going to explain to my son or daughter the facts about drugs so that they know why they make their decisions. Instead of teaching them 10 different ways to say no to drugs, I'm going to teach them why to say no to drugs. Kids can see through bullshit and once you lose their trust, you are fucked.

In my oppinion. We send a very profound, negative signal to the children of this nation when we legalize drugs.

This is what is wrong with America----people here care more about money than standing up for what is right.

And we wonder why our kids are confused. They hear one thing and see another.

Yeah it is a great idea to talk to your kids about drugs and how bad they are--this works wonders. But should we then turn around and say they should be legal. Is this not talking out of both sides of our mouths?

 

[Crazier]

In my oppinion. We send a very profound, negative signal to the children of this nation when we legalize drugs.

This is what is wrong with America----people here care more about money than standing up for what is right.

And we wonder why our kids are confused. They hear one thing and see another.

Yeah it is a great idea to talk to your kids about drugs and how bad they are--this works wonders. But should we then turn around and say they should be legal. Is this not talking out of both sides of our mouths?

From what I've seen HuntMaster, you're a man of tolerance... so, please explain to me, in a diplomatic way the questions I raised above.

See Hunt... I smoke pot daily. I also work 50 hours a week. I also have a 5 year old daughter I have an awesome bond with.
Your perception, no I won't say that since I don't know, but America's perception of pot, is that is destroys you.

This is what the government has brought you up to believe. The same reason you believed in Santa til about 3rd grade. You believe as you think the majority does.

I used to be against pot 100%. I had also never smoked it. Once I did, I realized it wasn't what had been brainwashed into my mind. It was a drug that allowed me to see and love more deeply.

I see nothing wrong with it. Other drugs... I won't contest. Pot, and pot alone... I can't understand it.
--

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Re: Re: Do you think we should legalize drugs?

Nah, if it got legalized, the income for Uncle Sugar would be about $63.75. The legal status is why we pay so much for what we do(if we do). The Gov make their cash by having the black market fucking us up(cops, lawyers, courts, ATF,rehabs, treatments,doctors,yap yap yap......). They know what they are doing.

People are spending 60 million a year on drugs when they are marked up 7000% or more. No industry could jack up prices that high without the FTC breaking them up.

If the govt is making money from the law enforcement side, then why dont they criminalize alcohol, tobacco, ephedrine and all the other stuff thats "bad for you."

They could legalize and tax drugs and continue to pay all the law enforcement officials their salaries to sit on their ass and everyone would win!

You wouldnt slash your tires every week for the sake of giving your mechanic a reason to charge you.

shitty analogy but you get the point.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

In my oppinion. We send a very profound, negative signal to the children of this nation when we legalize drugs.

This is what is wrong with America----people here care more about money than standing up for what is right.

And we wonder why our kids are confused. They hear one thing and see another.

Yeah it is a great idea to talk to your kids about drugs and how bad they are--this works wonders. But should we then turn around and say they should be legal. Is this not talking out of both sides of our mouths?

You are assuming that drugs are "bad." Thats the problem because thats where the bullshit starts.

Are steroids bad? Alot of people think they are. The majority of us thought they were until we started to learn about them. And once we learned they were not as bad as we were led to believe, we lost all respect for the people that lied to us.

There are good things and bad things about all drugs. If you dont acknowledge both sides you lose credibility when your child learns about the other side.

If shit really is bad then people dont want to do it. I have never heard a crack smoker say that smoking crack really isnt that bad for you. I've heard people say its feels great but they would never touch it again, and I've heard addicts say its the devil and they wish to god they had never touched it. You just dont see recreational crack smokers.

Not everyone that does coke is a drug addict just like not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic. Most people can handle it, but some become addicts.

Saying we are sending a bad message to kids is too idealistic. No kids are going to base their morals on what the president says over what their parents say. And kids without good parents are even less likely to care about the "message we send."

We have priests molesting kids, moms killing their kids, people flying planes into buildings, presidents getting blowjobs, and tobacco companies simultaneously paying lawsuits and aggressively marking both for and against smoking!

God knows what message kids are getting.

 

[huntmaster]

From what I've seen HuntMaster, you're a man of tolerance... so, please explain to me, in a diplomatic way the questions I raised above.

See Hunt... I smoke pot daily. I also work 50 hours a week. I also have a 5 year old daughter I have an awesome bond with.
Your perception, no I won't say that since I don't know, but America's perception of pot, is that is destroys you.

This is what the government has brought you up to believe. The same reason you believed in Santa til about 3rd grade. You believe as you think the majority does.

I used to be against pot 100%. I had also never smoked it. Once I did, I realized it wasn't what had been brainwashed into my mind. It was a drug that allowed me to see and love more deeply.

I see nothing wrong with it. Other drugs... I won't contest. Pot, and pot alone... I can't understand it.
--

IMO when we consider legalizing pot---we must do so on its own properties and not in comparison with any other legal substance.
Any drug that has merit to be legalized should hold substantial evidence in itself and the effects it has on its users.

Having said that, let me say that I do not smoke pot on a regular basis, but based on what I have seen in others---and on TV(j/k), I believe pot should remain illegal for recreational use.


I dont think Americans believe that pot destroys individuals, they just see that it makes an individual vulnerable and dulls one's motor skills/perception etc.

It is great that you have a strong bond with your daughter---this is becoming more and more rare, today.

 

[huntmaster]

No kids are going to base their morals on what the president says over what their parents say. And kids without good parents are even less likely to care about the "message we send."

Kids without good parents need for society to stand for right despite financial circumstances.

The president is not yet the one saying these things --- from what I have heard it is some of the voters. It's a process, slowly chipping away at what little morality we have left.


YOu may be surprised how much kids perceive the world around them and what is 'said' to be right and wrong.

 

[Crazier]

A. I believe pot should remain illegal for recreational use.


B. I dont think Americans believe that pot destroys individuals, they just see that it makes an individual vulnerable.

C. It dulls one's motor skills/perception etc.

D. It is great that you have a strong bond with your daughter---this is becoming more and more rare, today.

A. Why?

B. How does it make one vulnerable?

C. Sure. I didn't say you should be able to smoke and then drive. It would have to have restrictions as other drugs... such as alchohol.

D. Thank you my friend.
--

 

[Immortal Juicer]

The real cause of the problem is that we are taught to not think for ourselves. From religion to politics, we are told to accept things blindly and not to question them. If a politican were to say "I want to make cocaine legal," the vast majority of people wouldnt listen to another thing he had to say because he went against what had been instilled in them and they didnt want to think about it.

 

[Crazier]

The real cause of the problem is that we are taught to not think for ourselves. From religion to politics, we are told to accept things blindly and not to question them. If a politican were to say "I want to make cocaine legal," the vast majority of people wouldnt listen to another thing he had to say because he went against what had been instilled in them and they didnt want to think about it.

DING DING DING!!!

We have a winner!!!
--

 

[huntmaster]

B. How does it make one vulnerable?

--

pot has been shown to impair cognition. individuals who use pot with a high THC on a regular basis have shown defects in cognitive tasks.

Youngsters who use pot are more likely to drop out of school--this being tabbed as the "amotivational syndrome"

Pot stays in the body for weeks before cleansing. White blood cells and other parts immune system do not function properly when exposed to pot.

Regular users have been shown to have a higher risk of contracting herpes as well as sustaining pneumonia.

pot is the gateway drug. individuals who never use pot are much more likely not to do the other more harmful drugs.


I understand that this is not as cut and dried for some as it is for me, that is OK---that is what makes this a discussion board.

peace out

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Kids without good parents need for society to stand for right despite financial circumstances.

The president is not yet the one saying these things --- from what I have heard it is some of the voters. It's a process, slowly chipping away at what little morality we have left.


YOu may be surprised how much kids perceive the world around them and what is 'said' to be right and wrong.

Stand for whats right despite financial circumstances? Look at our legal system? What should be the epitome of equal justice and protection for all citizens is a complete fucking joke. EVERYONE knows the rich and poor are treated unequally in the justice system.

President Bush Sr. gave a pardon to one of the Kali cocaine cartels highest level traffickers after 10 million dollar donation was made. Thats the worst example. Every day, rich drug traffickers are let off because of high priced attorneys while poor, uneducated people are getting mandatory minimums for selling a gram of coke.

All the sex, drug, and corruption scandals in the govt and you feel these people should be in charge of the moral message kids get. The problems start when the govt tries to do the parents job.

Our morals went out the fucking window long ago.

 

[huntmaster]

The real cause of the problem is that we are taught to not think for ourselves. From religion to politics, we are told to accept things blindly and not to question them. If a politican were to say "I want to make cocaine legal," the vast majority of people wouldnt listen to another thing he had to say because he went against what had been instilled in them and they didnt want to think about it.

could it be that you are saying this b/c not everyone agrees with you.

so, let me get this straight: If one doesn't agree with the Immortal Juicer, they are a no thinking for their'self lazyass???

comm'n man, learn to respect others views.

 

[huntmaster]

Stand for whats right despite financial circumstances? Look at our legal system? What should be the epitome of equal justice and protection for all citizens is a complete fucking joke. EVERYONE knows the rich and poor are treated unequally in the justice system.

President Bush Sr. gave a pardon to one of the Kali cocaine cartels highest level traffickers after 10 million dollar donation was made. Thats the worst example. Every day, rich drug traffickers are let off because of high priced attorneys while poor, uneducated people are getting mandatory minimums for selling a gram of coke.

All the sex, drug, and corruption scandals in the govt and you feel these people should be in charge of the moral message kids get. The problems start when the govt tries to do the parents job.

Our morals went out the fucking window long ago.

this is one area you and I dont agree on.

You believe that things are beyond repair, me I believe that every decision is either a step in the right direction or a step in the wrong direction.

I see light at the end of the tunnel.

I am an optimist.

I dont believe in throwing society to the wolves just b/c the solutions are not over-nighters.

nothing worth while ever came easy.

 

[Crazier]

could it be that you are saying this b/c not everyone agrees with you.

so, let me get this straight: If one doesn't agree with the Immortal Juicer, they are a no thinking for their'self lazyass???

comm'n man, learn to respect others views.

No Hunt. That's not what it means.

What it means is that Immortal could be thrown into jail for smoking a blunt in his house because people with your views don't respect his view.

Sitting there in peace one moment... not a care to hurt anyone in the world... the next, you're getting arrested because they smelt 'marijuana' coming from your place. Now, this peaceful hard working American is in jail with people that rob, rape, murder, and beat people.

All because people with your view point feel that is what is right.

'Come on man. Learn to respect other people's views.' You can shove that quote right up your and every politician's ass.
--

 

[huntmaster]

the way I see it, i am respecting your views here on this forum.

I did not accuse you of sucking on the governments knowledge tit--did I???

I did not say: IJ and Crazier, you get your thoughts from others and you cant come up with beliefes on your own.

I let you say your peice and then responded.

there is no need for folks to get personal here.

 

[Crazier]

the way I see it, i am respecting your views here on this forum.

I did not accuse you of sucking on the governments knowledge tit--did I???

I did not say: IJ and Crazier, you get your thoughts from others and you cant come up with beliefes on your own.

I let you say your peice and then responded.

there is no need for folks to get personal here.

Oh damn. Here we go with someone else getting all butt-hurt and going off crying.

Hunt... I asked you direct questions. You have avoided them.

You have avoided them because you can not answer them.

You avoid them the same way the people that arrest someone for smoking a joint in the privacy of their home.

They can't understand why exactly they are arresting this person... other than the fact that 'it's against the law and have to follow that.'

Bahahahaha.

Nothing is personal here Hunt. We're having a discussion.
--

 

[huntmaster]

allright, now I am a bit pissed.

I said what I did b/c we were getting off subject with all the 'you took it from the gov, hook line and sinker' crap.

Anyone here can throw e-darts at me all day long and I could not care less.

I just like to stay on subject.

You questions have been answered.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

this is one area you and I dont agree on.

You believe that things are beyond repair, me I believe that every decision is either a step in the right direction or a step in the wrong direction.

I see light at the end of the tunnel.

I am an optimist.

I dont believe in throwing society to the wolves just b/c the solutions are not over-nighters.

nothing worth while ever came easy.

Sorry if I came of disrespectful. No matter what you think I will always respect your right to do so. I'm glad you have a different opinion so I can question my personal beliefs.

What are you basing your beliefs that the current policy is working or ever can be successful on?

I cannot see any indication that we are making any progress whatsoever in the war on drugs.

Look at my original post and tell me where I am wrong? How would it benefit society to keep drugs illegal as opposed to govt regulation?

 

[huntmaster]

Thanks Immortal Juicer.

I dont claim to have the answers to fix this problem, all I know is when I want my little brother to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that drugs are harmfull--pot included. I have told him this and me and him are very close. I feel like he would not do drugs if they were legal. However, I do feel that there are many that would fall victim if they were legalized.



I too try to learn here, but most of my beliefs are pretty firm. I feel that society is over ridden with crime and problems b/c we as a society waffle on all the issues.


(keep in mind while reading this that I am not comparing these crimes to smoking pot)
In texas we say that murder gets the death penalty, when it really does not in many cases. We say that rape is really bad, but then we give people second chances. We say that child molesting is really bad, yet there are those out there that would go to there grave trying to keep these individuals names out of the paper and off of the net(identified as pedifiles.)

We have talk strong as a society, but when it comes down to it, we dont enforce.

When I was young, I knew that if I did wrong and my dad found out, I would get me ass wooped! I tried to weasle out of it the first few times, but I found out that makes it worse. this is what we need as a society.
If criminals knew for sure that they would get the death penalty for murder and they would get it quick, the murder rate would drop drastically.

The law tries to come accross as some no-nonsense strong arm, when they are really nothing more than a clanging symbols, making noise.

 

[JohnyJuice]

We have talk strong as a society, but when it comes down to it, we dont enforce.

When I was young, I knew that if I did wrong and my dad found out, I would get me ass wooped! I tried to weasle out of it the first few times, but I found out that makes it worse. this is what we need as a society.
If criminals knew for sure that they would get the death penalty for murder and they would get it quick, the murder rate would drop drastically.

The law tries to come accross as some no-nonsense strong arm, when they are really nothing more than a clanging symbols, making noise.

Exactly. This is because we have a society run by weaklings. The strong have been sitting back and have let the weak get behind the wheel of this country. Take the power back!!

 

[aurelius]

When I think about ANY illegal drug...I think about it this way. Do I want my 8 year old son using it? What about my daughter? When they go to grade school...or high school...do I want them using these things? No. I find smoking highly repulsive and wish that it was illegal too..but that is just my opinion.

This is about the worst logic I´ve ever read on this site. Alcohol and tobacco aren´t illegal. Cool if your 8 year old uses it?

You are using the illegality to judge the "badness" of the substance.

 

[aurelius]

pot is the gateway drug. individuals who never use pot are much more likely not to do the other more harmful drugs.

This is 100% myth. Many of your other assertions are also erronious. You are profoundly ignorant on this subject. If you are interested in educating yourself, I suggest the following book: DRUG WAR HERESIES. Forgot the author.

 

[havoc]

I'll start with your original question.
Do you think we should legalize drugs?
One reason I would say "yes" is because of the garbage/lies/deceit that the govt. attempts to fill the weak minded with. I would love to debate/school anyone on the subject of herb, especially on TV where millions are watching. I would completely learn and make fools of any man saying 1 thing negative about herb(I am only speaking about herb), whether it be the president, the drug czar, doctors or whomever, they would get there ass' handed to them in an effortless fashion. So I say "yes" now just because I like making people look the morons they already are, to expose them. Herb is already the #1 cash crop in the United States, it has hundreds of medicinal uses, hemp has thousands of uses, herb has been given a negative stigma due to the SOLE fact that the govt. cannot control in the fashion they want to, anything the govt. cannot dominate they exploit with garbage and petty lies, I expect nothing else from the dick jammers. Its a plant for fucks sake, you don't have to convert it to anything, you just pick the bud and utilize.
Now drugs like Cocaine, heroin, speed, etc, I say no, those are garbage of the earth and provide nothing for anyone. Now you might be saying to yourself "thats what some people think about herb", well, go ahead and try me in this thread and I will own you on the subject, seriously try me please.
Now I must say this also(this is my real answer in a personal fashion), I would not want herb legalized because of this: I have many friends who are growers, who make a living on ganja, I would hate herb to be legalized and profits go down for my friends. These gentlemen pull some serious bank. Also, I believe only certain people need to be utilizing the holy herb, if it were legalized, many dipshits who have no reason why it is to be used would be smoking or ingesting it, it is not something one should play around with, herb is a serious sacrament to many. The usual way a pot head is displayed on TV is some dumb bastard, dressed like a hippy, laughing and eating some chips or something related. I know of no one I hang with who acts in such ways or displays mannerisms of this type, I use herb to focus, if one is going to use it, use it properly, of course thats my opinion. If herb was legalized, many would be using it for the wrong reasons, thats not right. peace

 

[bigguns7]

I'll start with your original question.
Do you think we should legalize drugs?
One reason I would say "yes" is because of the garbage/lies/deceit that the govt. attempts to fill the weak minded with. I would love to debate/school anyone on the subject of herb, especially on TV where millions are watching. I would completely learn and make fools of any man saying 1 thing negative about herb(I am only speaking about herb), whether it be the president, the drug czar, doctors or whomever, they would get there ass' handed to them in an effortless fashion. So I say "yes" now just because I like making people look the morons they already are, to expose them. Herb is already the #1 cash crop in the United States, it has hundreds of medicinal uses, hemp has thousands of uses, herb has been given a negative stigma due to the SOLE fact that the govt. cannot control in the fashion they want to, anything the govt. cannot dominate they exploit with garbage and petty lies, I expect nothing else from the dick jammers. Its a plant for fucks sake, you don't have to convert it to anything, you just pick the bud and utilize.
Now drugs like Cocaine, heroin, speed, etc, I say no, those are garbage of the earth and provide nothing for anyone. Now you might be saying to yourself "thats what some people think about herb", well, go ahead and try me in this thread and I will own you on the subject, seriously try me please.
Now I must say this also(this is my real answer in a personal fashion), I would not want herb legalized because of this: I have many friends who are growers, who make a living on ganja, I would hate herb to be legalized and profits go down for my friends. These gentlemen pull some serious bank. Also, I believe only certain people need to be utilizing the holy herb, if it were legalized, many dipshits who have no reason why it is to be used would be smoking or ingesting it, it is not something one should play around with, herb is a serious sacrament to many. The usual way a pot head is displayed on TV is some dumb bastard, dressed like a hippy, laughing and eating some chips or something related. I know of no one I hang with who acts in such ways or displays mannerisms of this type, I use herb to focus, if one is going to use it, use it properly, of course thats my opinion. If herb was legalized, many would be using it for the wrong reasons, thats not right. peace

Havoc, I haven't disagreed with you yet, but please school me on this . . .

Does marijuana lead some individuals (however weak they may be) to use other more dangerous, more harmful drugs?

 

[Crazier]

Good points havoc.

I hate when the wrong people smoke the sacred herb.

I was in a chinese restaurant last week... this g'd out gang bangin' wanna be Mexican guy is being ridiculously loud.... being lewd. Just being a real dick.

Then he shouts out 'Man, fuck, I could use another blunt yo!!!'
Everyone in the restaurant just looks at this moron.

I look at my friend, who along with myself is mighty stoned, and I tell him it's a perfect example why people have the wrong idea about pot. Because the wrong person smokes it, and starts acting like a fucking moron. Well, the thing is... he was a fucking moron before pot, and now he's a fucking moron that smokes pot. Nothing's changed about him, except now he gives real pot smokers, that appreciate and understand the drug, a bad name.

Pisses me off.
--

 

[havoc]

Havoc, I haven't disagreed with you yet, but please school me on this . . .

Does marijuana lead some individuals (however weak they may be) to use other more dangerous, more harmful drugs?

You made me laugh with the "school" comment, funny stuff. Yes bro ,it may, its all about free will and the chance to say "no". Weak minded individuals could definitely be lead in other directions of drug use, but thats not my fault, I take responsibility for my actions, not others. I see your point very clearly. peace

 

[havoc]

Good points havoc.

I hate when the wrong people smoke the sacred herb.

I was in a chinese restaurant last week... this g'd out gang bangin' wanna be Mexican guy is being ridiculously loud.... being lewd. Just being a real dick.

Then he shouts out 'Man, fuck, I could use another blunt yo!!!'
Everyone in the restaurant just looks at this moron.

I look at my friend, who along with myself is mighty stoned, and I tell him it's a perfect example why people have the wrong idea about pot. Because the wrong person smokes it, and starts acting like a fucking moron. Well, the thing is... he was a fucking moron before pot, and now he's a fucking moron that smokes pot. Nothing's changed about him, except now he gives real pot smokers, that appreciate and understand the drug, a bad name.

Pisses me off.
--

I relate. peace

 

[curling]

I see both yours(Crazier) and Huntmaster's points. You do have to worry about the message we send out to kids. Maybe their could be a compromise. Maybe weed should remain illegal as hunt wishes but the punishment reduced to like a traffic ticket(which would give the govt more money) for possession of 0 to 2 ounces and at the same lower the prison population. Because I believe like crazier that it is nuts putting someone in prison for smoking weed because it is not as bad as alcohol. And since alcohol is legal(because politicians drink), you have to weigh it against it not just on it's(weed's) own merits.

Just like steroids if you want to keep them illegal make it the same thing just a traffic ticket nothing more. It is the fair way to do it.

 

[Norman Bates]

I think everybody should be allowed to decide what he can do with his body or not. As long as it doesn´t affect other people they should not mess with other people´s life.
Therefore i think all drugs should be legalized.

A friend of mine had to go to prison because he had some xtc with him.He didn´t drive a car while being on it. He wasn´t violent. He didn´t force other people to take it. He didn´t advice other people to take it. He didn´t steal to be able to afford drugs.
Yet he went to prison for 2 years.
I think that was very unjust.

 

[Crazier]

You do have to worry about the message we send out to kids.

Absolutely. Just like alcohol, there would have to be a minimum age requirement and education on the drug.

I meant to write this earlier... it's an important point to be made.
I never said or thought a 12 year old should be able to legally spark a joint in the morning while he's waiting for a school bus.
--

 

[p0ink]

which political party would be more inclined to help in legalization of drugs? republicans are too conservative to do so, and democrats want to make everything illegal...

 

[Immortal Juicer]

I think everybody should be allowed to decide what he can do with his body or not. As long as it doesn´t affect other people they should not mess with other people´s life.
Therefore i think all drugs should be legalized.

A friend of mine had to go to prison because he had some xtc with him.He didn´t drive a car while being on it. He wasn´t violent. He didn´t force other people to take it. He didn´t advice other people to take it. He didn´t steal to be able to afford drugs.
Yet he went to prison for 2 years.
I think that was very unjust.

what were the circumstances of his sentencing? I know people that were busted with over 5,000 pills that didnt serve time. What was his prior record?

 

[Norman Bates]

He had some with him and some more at home. I don´t know exactly how much it was, we didn´t know each other then.
He did get probation, i believe.
But my point was that he didn´t do anything immoral imho.

 

[Prometheus]

interesting thread -

as to declining morality, look at history - for thousands of years we had contstant warfare with the losers being pillaged, gladitoral deathmatches, torture and public executions at the whim of kings, the feudal system, slavery, colonialization, men having the right to beat their wives, etc. If anything, we are making good progress in the "moral" arena, generally speaking.

with drugs, there is a clear distinction between pot and the "hard" drugs. this is beyond debate -- "hard" drugs differ in that unsuspecting people can try it and become instant addicts, or even die from the experience. I'm not sure whether that justifies putting sellers in cages with rapists for 20 years, but at least justifies prohibiting their open sale.

why is pot still illegal? probably because those making the rules are making more money that way. maybe the law enforcement community, maybe the prison construction industry, I'm not sure. why can a man be forced to fight in a foreign war zone at 18, but can't drink till he's 21? same reason I'd guess - I'd say the car insurance lobby had a lot to do with that law. or why can you be fined for not protecting yourself by wearing a helmet on a motorcycle? (insurance lobby) or why can't you start a private postal service company? (postal unions) there's a lot of laws that make little sense other than economics.

 

[Warik]

I think all drugs should be legalized and harsher sentences be imposed on offenders involved in crimes that had to do with drugs (i.e. some fucked up junkie shooting someone).

Why? Drug abuse is a victimless crime.

If you sit there in your living room and start shooting heroin and O.D., who gets hurt besides you? No one. I am COMPLETELY unaffected by one of my friends who sits down to smoke some shit every night, and I'm COMPLETELY unaffected by whoever decides to do a good cycle or two of gear.

So why is it illegal? Because politicians and common citizens are illogical.

Before any of you go and complain about "oh, what if someone goes nuts with his drugs and goes and kills someone! there's a victim!" True, but that person was killed by A DRUG ABUSER - NOT BY A DRUG. This would be comparable to banning cars because people get killed by motorists every day.

Start thinking and stop regulating everything. Stupid government.

-Warik

 

[bigguns7]

I think all drugs should be legalized and harsher sentences be imposed on offenders involved in crimes that had to do with drugs (i.e. some fucked up junkie shooting someone).

Why? Drug abuse is a victimless crime.

-Warik

Okay, here's the scenario. And this is an actual scenario that happened to a friend, except of course, that coke is illegal.

Let's say we make cocaine legal. Now everyone knows that cocaine is highly addictive. Now let's say Mr X, father of two and loving husband, becomes addicted to cocaine. He proceeds to sell the furniture, his daughters' college funds, and the grocery money on cocaine, which is legal.

That's perfectly fine, right? It's a victimless crime right? He's not hurting anyone except himself right? Wrong. There are victims. But under your scenario, this scumbag wouldn't serve any time, because he didn't commit any crime. I think we should keep things the way they are.

 

[techlifter_2]

Re: Re: Do you think we should legalize drugs?

Nah, if it got legalized, the income for Uncle Sugar would be about $63.75. The legal status is why we pay so much for what we do(if we do). The Gov make their cash by having the black market fucking us up(cops, lawyers, courts, ATF,rehabs, treatments,doctors,yap yap yap......). They know what they are doing.

If it were legalized, i dont think the amount of use would fluctuate much. Just as sarcastically as you said $63.75, that means there is about $62,999,999,999.25 more dollars for americans to put into the economy instead of to terrorists.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Okay, here's the scenario. And this is an actual scenario that happened to a friend, except of course, that coke is illegal.

Let's say we make cocaine legal. Now everyone knows that cocaine is highly addictive. Now let's say Mr X, father of two and loving husband, becomes addicted to cocaine. He proceeds to sell the furniture, his daughters' college funds, and the grocery money on cocaine, which is legal.

That's perfectly fine, right? It's a victimless crime right? He's not hurting anyone except himself right? Wrong. There are victims. But under your scenario, this scumbag wouldn't serve any time, because he didn't commit any crime. I think we should keep things the way they are.

It happened to your friend regardless of cocaine being illegal. He still got hooked on it. That shows you that the war isnt working. If it had been legal, your friend may have been able to get help earlier because he wouldnt have to hide his initial use. He also wouldnt spend his daughters college fund on it because it would not be as expensive and there would not be the threat of violence if he owed money for coke.

Most of the true problems arise because it is illegal.

 

[Warik]

Let's say we make cocaine legal. Now everyone knows that cocaine is highly addictive. Now let's say Mr X, father of two and loving husband, becomes addicted to cocaine. He proceeds to sell the furniture, his daughters' college funds, and the grocery money on cocaine, which is legal.

That's perfectly fine, right? It's a victimless crime right? He's not hurting anyone except himself right? Wrong. There are victims. But under your scenario, this scumbag wouldn't serve any time, because he didn't commit any crime. I think we should keep things the way they are.

Then why don't we charge poor people with crimes, too? Hey, Joe Schmoe doesn't make enough money to buy furniture, send his daughters to college, or buy enough groceries for 3 meals a day. Mother fucker should be locked up!!!

Wrong.

The important facts to notice here are:

1) It's not illegal to sell furniture.
2) It's not illegal to spend college funds.
3) It's not illegal to spend grocery money.

The price that this real family paid was NOT because of a father addicted to cocaine, but rather a bad man in general. Why? A good man wouldn't abuse an addictive substance and cause his family so much harm. There are zillions of way to screw up a family without using drugs. Should we regulate all of them?

-Warik

 

[Crazier]

I think all drugs should be legalized and harsher sentences be imposed on offenders involved in crimes that had to do with drugs (i.e. some fucked up junkie shooting someone).

Why? Drug abuse is a victimless crime.

If you sit there in your living room and start shooting heroin and O.D., who gets hurt besides you? No one. I am COMPLETELY unaffected by one of my friends who sits down to smoke some shit every night, and I'm COMPLETELY unaffected by whoever decides to do a good cycle or two of gear.

So why is it illegal? Because politicians and common citizens are illogical.

Before any of you go and complain about "oh, what if someone goes nuts with his drugs and goes and kills someone! there's a victim!" True, but that person was killed by A DRUG ABUSER - NOT BY A DRUG. This would be comparable to banning cars because people get killed by motorists every day.

Start thinking and stop regulating everything. Stupid government.

-Warik

I'm impressed.

When I saw you were the last one to post on this thread, I thought for sure... since you haven't tried pot mostly... Because you haven't I thought that you would be like the majority and wish to ban something that you have no idea the influence or feeling it has on you.

Good for you.
--

 

[Warik]

I'm impressed.

When I saw you were the last one to post on this thread, I thought for sure... since you haven't tried pot mostly... Because you haven't I thought that you would be like the majority and wish to ban something that you have no idea the influence or feeling it has on you.

Good for you.
--

Thanks. I just think it's so primitive to impose things on people in response to what they "might" do. It's comparable to gun ownership, automobile ownership, or even a damn alarm clock. What if he uses that gun to shoot someone? What if he gets drunk and crashes his car into someone? What if he uses that alarm clock to make a tick-tock bomb?

My thought? What if you are the only dipshit who fantasizes about these atrocities on a daily basis and thus want to regulate everything you can manipulate the populace into giving up?

-Warik

 

[junglist]

the american public doesnt have the common sense to know where to draw the line with drug use. Sure, we could legalize drugs, but how many dumbasses would knod off on heroin driving back from a party? or 15 year old kids suffering from amphetamine induced psychosis? perhaps a nation of bi-polar ecstacy abusers?

drug use shouldnt be legal, but without a doubt, it shouldnt be a criminal offense (maybe defferment to educational classes, rehabilitation, a fine?)

our government has more than our health and best interest at stake with the war on drugs.
dont beleive it? here are the DEA's current 3 standards for scheduling a drug:
1. The substance must be physically harmful
2. It must be physically addictive
3. It must serve no medicinal purpose

*nicotine and alcohol meet all three requirements for scheduling/classification of an illegal substance (yet somehow are legal?!?)

*heroin serves a medicinal purpose for pain-killing properties
*ecstacy serves a therapuetic purpose for post-traumatic stress disorder...
*I could talk about marijuana but...

i wonder what type of hold phillip morris and anheiser-busch lobbyists have on our policy makers?

 

[Taps]

Damn, Warik -- you one smart cracka!

I see drug laws as a form of censorship. What it basically comes down to is one person saying to another" "You can't do this because I don't agree with it." I believe individual freedom is an absolute -- you either have it, or you don't.

If someone chooses to use drugs, fine. If they're irrisponsable with thier use and they fuck up thier lives, fine. As long as they arn't directly hurting anyone else, fine. It's their choice.

Nobody has the right to tell anyone else how to live.

 

[bigguns7]

Then why don't we charge poor people with crimes, too? Hey, Joe Schmoe doesn't make enough money to buy furniture, send his daughters to college, or buy enough groceries for 3 meals a day. Mother fucker should be locked up!!!

Wrong.

The important facts to notice here are:

1) It's not illegal to sell furniture.
2) It's not illegal to spend college funds.
3) It's not illegal to spend grocery money.

The price that this real family paid was NOT because of a father addicted to cocaine, but rather a bad man in general. Why? A good man wouldn't abuse an addictive substance and cause his family so much harm. There are zillions of way to screw up a family without using drugs. Should we regulate all of them?

-Warik

I see your point, but my story was meant to illustrate the naivety of your statement that drug abuse is a victimless crime.

 

[aurelius]

Probably best to take these drugs one at a time. Clumping them together confuses the issue.

 

[Warik]

I see your point, but my story was meant to illustrate the naivety of your statement that drug abuse is a victimless crime.

But drug abuse is a victimless crime. Did you not read my post?

Let's look at your story.

The man sold his furniture.
The man messed with his daughters' college funds.
The man used up his grocery money.

HE DID.

NOT THE DRUGS.

Him!

Did the gun shoot the store clerk? No, the dumbass carrying it did. What does this kind of attitude towards drugs teach America? It teaches America that its government acknowledges the fact that they are all irresponsible and will always be so.

-Warik

 

[danielson]

ciggarettes have been shown to be as addictive as heroin. they are also worse for you health wise and people around you ass well as you offspring. our government allows it

alcohol impaors judgement dramitcally.....its allowed

over the counter meds are allowed which can produce all kinds of sensations



is pot really that bad. its being made a class C drug in britain (same category as steroids and speed)....and you can sm,oke it openly in parts of london and the police will not arrest you




i am concerned about its legality due to a potential addictivness and people not being able to sustain theis addiction.....but to huntmaster etc (who made some nice posts btw) with all these other substaces LEGALLY out there, pot is less worrying. i have had it before, i experimented a little in my youth but now i dont smoke, or even drink (other than V.special occasions)

 

[George Spellwin]

<p>I'm asking all readers and members to take the <a href="http://bodybuilding.elitefitness.com/legal-steroids" target="_blank">Legal Steroids</a> Poll on Facebook. The legal steroids poll is titled "<a href="http://apps.facebook.com/opinionpolls/poll.php?pid=ABBCzs1ZZgY" target="_blank">Should all Anabolic Steroids be Decriminalized?</a>" </p> <p><a href="http://apps.facebook.com/opinionpolls/poll.php?pid=ABBCzs1ZZgY" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.elitefitness.com/images/legal-steroids.jpg" alt="Legal Steroids" width="350" height="502" border="0" align="right" /></a>There's 4 choices about how steroids could be made legal or not. They are: </p> <p>Should anabolic steroids be decriminalized? </p> <p>1. Steroids should be legal and available over the counter. </p> <p>2. Steroids are legal with a doctor's prescription for medical and cosmetic use. </p> <p>3. Legal steroids only for medical use - illegal for cosmetic use - like now. </p> <p>4. Illegal for medical use and illegal for cosmetic use. </p> <p>Choice #1 would mean anyone age 18 and over could go to a store and buy legal steroids just like they can legally buy alcohol now. </p> <p>Choice #2 is what EliteFitness.com has always advocated. Working with a doctor, you can use <a href="http://bodybuilding.elitefitness.com/legal-steroids" target="_blank">legal anabolic steroids</a> for both medical purposes and for cosmetic proposes. Right now, if a doctor prescribes anabolic steroids for anything other than a medical condition, both you and the doctor have committed a felony. If we had choice #2, athletes and bodybuilder could safely use legal steroids under a doctors supervision - kind of like a doctor can now per scribe other pharmaceuticals like Botox or Retin A for cosmetic use. The black market for steroids would shrink and we would keep steroids away from kids as a result. </p> <p>Choice #3 is what we have now. A doctor can prescribe <a href="http://bodybuilding.elitefitness.com/legal-steroids" target="_blank">legal steroids</a> for a medical condition, but it is a crime to prescribe them for physique enhancement. If the doctor tries to write you a script for say testosterone to help your bodybuilding goals, both you and he can get in big trouble. Lastly, choice #4 would be even more draconian that what we have now - this would be a total ban of all legal steroids.</p> <p>Please help make your opinion know and vote on the Facebook poll <a href="http://apps.facebook.com/opinionpolls/poll.php?pid=ABBCzs1ZZgY" target="_blank">should anabolic steroids be decriminalized</a>. I look forward to reading your comments and checking out the results.</p>

 

[samoth]

I know you're new to the board, but please read the rules regarding bumping old poasts. Do it again and we'll have to give you a time out.

Thanks, and welcome to EF!

Yours in sport,

 

[miplank]

That's no longer a rule, n00b.

 

[samoth]

That's no longer a rule, n00b.

Ah, they must lock them all for a different reason then.

 

[miplank]

I haven't seen any threads locked lately

 

[cindylou]

That's no longer a rule, n00b.

really? We can bump old threads?

 

[puddlemonkey]

really? We can bump old threads?

I think they worded it as we can't bump irrelevant threads, leaving it up to interpretation and whatever mood the mod on duty is in.

 

[puddlemonkey]

4. Do not bump old irrelevant threads.

 

[kx250rider]

Deleted... didn't notice how old the thread is!

 

[needtogetaas]

I know you're new to the board, but please read the rules regarding bumping old poasts. Do it again and we'll have to give you a time out.

Thanks, and welcome to EF!

Yours in sport,

we do not give a fuck about the gay shit anymore samoth. Get with the fucking times we got new leadership in the house and ef is now better then ever....

Bump all the old threads you want I dont give a fuck. We got 3 rules in chat and if you dont know them by now ask somebody.