Hows about this type of whole body program 3x/week?

[75th]

After years of doing Crossfit I went back to a 3x5 routine and quite enjoyed it. I've reached a point where I want to take the core exercises and do them each workout. Essentially:

Squat 3x5
Weighted Dips 3x5
Deadlift 2x5
Weighted Chins 3x5

Linear progression on each every workout (or once a week...havent decided yet). I would alternate front and back squats every workout.

Thats it. I am and always have been against things like curls, calf raises, and all the other (IMO) bullshit assistance exercises, so a traditional "bodybuilding split" wont work for me. My shoulders seem to get hit well enough with the above (I took a few weeks off of any type of shoulder exercise a few months ago, and when getting back into them I was able to jump weight on my press as if I had been doing them all along).

I know that most people will talk about CNS overkill with squats and deads 3x per week, but I eat well enough and have never had symptoms of overtraining while doing deads 2x/week. Plus, I just love doing them.

Thoughts?

 

[ExtraMile]

I think you should try it and see. If you make progress on the lifts then its working.

However, if you do have trouble with overtraining one thing I would suggest is pulling heavy conventional deadlifts one workout, then skipping deadlifts on the second workout. Then for the third workout something like a romanian deadlift for higher reps (around 10 reps). Doing differant variations of deadlifts twice a week is one thing, but I wouldnt want to pull heavy every single workout.

I have been able to recover from heavy RDL and heavy conventional DL in the same week.

Out of interest, why no bench?

 

[the_alcatraz]

shoulders? chest? arms? abs? back width? (deadlifts are great for back thickness, but you need pulldowns or pullups for back width)

I do not belive deadlifts are enough to build arms, shoulders and chest...not even close.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Also you wont lift any serious weight deadlifting anf squating 3 times a week...it will take you too long to recover and you'll have one good workout the entire work. You are better off following a more conventional training system that has been proven to work, i.e. 5x5, DC, Max OT, FST-7, etc...

 

[75th]

shoulders? chest? arms? abs? back width? (deadlifts are great for back thickness, but you need pulldowns or pullups for back width)

I do not belive deadlifts are enough to build arms, shoulders and chest...not even close.

Shoulders = dips/chins
Arms = dips/chins/deads
abs = people still "work" those? Squats, deads, and weighted chins take care of that.

Id alternate pullups and chins (weighted, of course).

As for arms, I think the last time I did a curl, pressdown/extension, or whatever the exercise du jour is for arms was 2001.

 

[75th]

Also you wont lift any serious weight deadlifting anf squating 3 times a week...it will take you too long to recover and you'll have one good workout the entire work. You are better off following a more conventional training system that has been proven to work, i.e. 5x5, DC, Max OT, FST-7, etc...

Thats the thing...I'm kind of basing this off of the reasoning behind Ripptoe's starting strength, for instance.

The only main difference between what I have here and SS/5x5 is I would do deads every workout instead of every other. Dips are a perfectly good (and sometimes superior) substitute for bench, and pretty much all of the programs you mentioned include chins/pullups in one fashion or another. Those workouts go fine along with the linear progression.

Essentially the big question is will an extra 2 sets of deads per week really hinder my progress.

 

[75th]

However, if you do have trouble with overtraining one thing I would suggest is pulling heavy conventional deadlifts one workout, then skipping deadlifts on the second workout. Then for the third workout something like a romanian deadlift for higher reps (around 10 reps). Doing differant variations of deadlifts twice a week is one thing, but I wouldnt want to pull heavy every single workout.

Thats a good idea...alternating high and low reps on deads, attempting to increase weight every other (or every 4th workout).

Out of interest, why no bench?

I'm not competing in a powerlifting meet any time soon. I havent benched more than sporadically in a while now, and yet my chest continues to develop and get stronger. From Oct through Dec of last year, I did only weighted dips yet my 5rm on bench increased 15lbs.

 

[ExtraMile]

Give it a try then bro, worst comes to the worst you get burned out and take a week off. Then at least you learn something new about the work capacity you can handle. Only way you'll truly find out is to try it out.

I doubt you will build massive amounts of mass in just a few areas of the body and leave massive gaping holes in the areas you didnt fully isolate unless you are planning on using this exact routine for the next 5 years lol.... or if you plan on competing in bodybuilding which Im pretty certain your not.

You may find as certain lifts stall you end up tweaking the routine bit by bit and eventually it ends up looking nothing like the original plan and yet you are still getting results from it, thats just how you learn to train for certain goals imo.

I would never do the routine you posted myself, but the way I see it theres not much to loose by giving it a go for a while...

 

[75th]

Or perhaps alternate heavy (eg 3x5, linear progression) workouts with -25% load workouts for higher reps.

EG Monday 3x5 across
Wed 3x8 across
Fri 3x5 across with progression

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

You need to realize starting strength is predominantly about teaching new lifters how to lift and use a simple, but effective program that can be built up as they advance in strength.

Rippetoe is not opposed to assistance exercises if they serve a real purpose and are effective. The intermediate stage of lifting ie. when you transition from making gains every workout to making gains once a week or so is the best time to start using assistance lifts.

To build a strong, attractive, functional body you do not need alot of assistance exercises, but you do need some or the smaller muscles can actually hinder the big lifts.

At a minimum I would recommend shoulder pressing for a different angle of pressing than just dips, some strict pressdowns to assist in strengthening the triceps in an isolated fashion because they may not be getting maximally fatigued in the compound lifts. Back extensions, leg curls, decline situps, sidebends etc will all help the big lifts.

Assistance exercises shouldn't be shunned. They aren't that taxing either because they should be performed as "assistance" lifts with lighter weight and strict form. Sets of 3x8-12 being ideal. I just did an assistance workout tonight after benching and squatting heavy on monday and tuesday and basically just did decline situps, db sidebends, lying leg raises, back extension and some curls. All for 3 sets of 10. I got some muscle fatigue and blood flow into the muscles and will add a little weight next time. Wasn't particularly taxed from the workout, but rather invigorated and it was beneficial.

There will come a point if you are only doing nothing, but the basic compound lifts that you will get strong enough that you will either injure yourself because the assistance muscles haven't been getting taxed enough or you will stall out because these smaller muscles are becoming weak links. It's just the way it is.

This doesn't mean bookoo assistance. For my bench I'll do close grips or decline dumbells and strict cable pressdowns to make sure the triceps get isolated.

For squats I'll do some high rep leg presses and some abductor/adductor work.

For deads I'll use back extensions, db rows, stiff legged deads etc.

Doesn't have to be alot, but you need to shore up the big muscles. You're only as strong as your weakest link.

P.S. Also, your abs do get a good workout from heavy squats, presses and deads, but they get accustomed to this very fast. They can be made even stronger with a little direct attention and this is really beneficial when you're squatting or deadlifting +400lbs as it will help keep you solid.

 

[75th]

Good stuff. I've really never been a fan of assistance work...maybe its because I have no desire to be 230lbs @ 7% or compete in any way, shape, or form - but I've been happy with where focusing on the compounds has brought me.

I'll try working in some of your feedback and see how it treats me.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

I agree with ghetto about assistance. I hate it too bro, I never do curls. Never do any machines, I think they are a waste and if you are going to do assistance then it should still be free weights/cables, something where you are not on ur ass.

Whenever I make a routine for bodybuilding, I always come up with 5 exercises for each bodypart and I can only finish 3. I think there is no problem with you doing your compounds movements as much as you want. I also think dips are one of the best things for chest, not bench. I do like bench though because of my ego

I also agree abs are pretty much worked when you are doing heavy compounds, no need to waste ur time on those. One thing I do like is doing the hanging leg raises like this
YouTube - Hanging leg raises - 5lb x 15

Here is an idea for some assistance work for your lifts
Deads- weighted chins, db or bb rows
Squats - SLDL or some posterior chain
Dips - DB or BB military

 

[the_alcatraz]

You need to realize starting strength is predominantly about teaching new lifters how to lift and use a simple, but effective program that can be built up as they advance in strength.

Rippetoe is not opposed to assistance exercises if they serve a real purpose and are effective. The intermediate stage of lifting ie. when you transition from making gains every workout to making gains once a week or so is the best time to start using assistance lifts.

To build a strong, attractive, functional body you do not need alot of assistance exercises, but you do need some or the smaller muscles can actually hinder the big lifts.

At a minimum I would recommend shoulder pressing for a different angle of pressing than just dips, some strict pressdowns to assist in strengthening the triceps in an isolated fashion because they may not be getting maximally fatigued in the compound lifts. Back extensions, leg curls, decline situps, sidebends etc will all help the big lifts.

Assistance exercises shouldn't be shunned. They aren't that taxing either because they should be performed as "assistance" lifts with lighter weight and strict form. Sets of 3x8-12 being ideal. I just did an assistance workout tonight after benching and squatting heavy on monday and tuesday and basically just did decline situps, db sidebends, lying leg raises, back extension and some curls. All for 3 sets of 10. I got some muscle fatigue and blood flow into the muscles and will add a little weight next time. Wasn't particularly taxed from the workout, but rather invigorated and it was beneficial.

There will come a point if you are only doing nothing, but the basic compound lifts that you will get strong enough that you will either injure yourself because the assistance muscles haven't been getting taxed enough or you will stall out because these smaller muscles are becoming weak links. It's just the way it is.

This doesn't mean bookoo assistance. For my bench I'll do close grips or decline dumbells and strict cable pressdowns to make sure the triceps get isolated.

For squats I'll do some high rep leg presses and some abductor/adductor work.

For deads I'll use back extensions, db rows, stiff legged deads etc.

Doesn't have to be alot, but you need to shore up the big muscles. You're only as strong as your weakest link.

P.S. Also, your abs do get a good workout from heavy squats, presses and deads, but they get accustomed to this very fast. They can be made even stronger with a little direct attention and this is really beneficial when you're squatting or deadlifting +400lbs as it will help keep you solid.

Great post.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Shoulders = dips/chins
Arms = dips/chins/deads
abs = people still "work" those? Squats, deads, and weighted chins take care of that.

Id alternate pullups and chins (weighted, of course).

As for arms, I think the last time I did a curl, pressdown/extension, or whatever the exercise du jour is for arms was 2001.

dips = triceps (yes, shoulders are secondary muscles but dont get a good enough owrkout out of it)

deadlifts do workout biceps, forearms and traps as secondary muscles, but it is not nearly enough. I would throw in there barbell curls, hammer curls, dumbell shrugs.

I'm a big advocate of isolation exercises...not too many, just enough to get enough circulation and work out of the smaller muscle groups.

 

[SouthernLord]

75th you should check out Ferruggia's stuff.

Minimalism Part 2: Exercise Selection

 

[the_alcatraz]

75th you should check out Ferruggia's stuff.

Minimalism Part 2: Exercise Selection

This is very interesting. Reading it now.

 

[SouthernLord]

It's good shit bro.

I've been training like this for a while now. My time is precious and I'd rather not waste it. It's all about training economy nowadays.

 

[the_alcatraz]

It's good shit bro.

I've been training like this for a while now. My time is precious and I'd rather not waste it. It's all about training economy nowadays.

no calves?

Also, I just learned what a facepull is....and scarecrows look like a nice variation from the rear shoulder workout you get out of a reverse pec dec machine

 

[SouthernLord]

Face pulls kill my delts and upper back. Killer exercise for high reps and multiple sets imo.

I haven't trained calves directly in a good while.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Face pulls kill my delts and upper back. Killer exercise for high reps and multiple sets imo.

I haven't trained calves directly in a good while.

Looks like something that I would do on my shoulders / traps day though and not on a back day

 

[SouthernLord]

Yeah. I do them once a week on an upper body day.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Yeah. I do them once a week on an upper body day.

Jumped back on DC training yesterday. I'll start up a log in the weightlifting forums

 

[jiggagold]

ferrugia is the shit, ppl waste too much time doing stupid accessory lifts, calves?? lollololol push a sled/pull a sled, sprint, jump rope, do some ghr's, thatll build ur calves and ur actually trainging ur body to move not just bouncing up and down on ur calves

 

[75th]

Yeah. I do them once a week on an upper body day.

Hopefully fasted, nugga.

I'll read that link. I still dont see whats so obscene about this routine...its similar to Reg Park's. I may substitute some core lifts here and there (throw in some presses) and some rotator cuff work once a week.