The old boxing v MMA debate

[jd_uk]

YouTube - ESPN: UFC vs. BOXING

Watched this video and I can't help thinking how pathetic Joe Rogan sounds. Here's my take on it:

I like some MMA. I can respect the skills and athleticism of the fighters but the whole 'boxing is dead' argument you hear from some ignorant MMA fans is just BS.

How can boxing be anywhere close to dead when Mayweather has probably just made $60 million from 1 fight? What do the top MMA fighters make per fight? I'm guessing it's not even 1/50th of that. Makybe Mayweather really is the last of the big names? But then there's Pacquaio whose popularity has doubled in the last year. What about all the up and coming exciting fighters like David Haye and Amir Khan from the UK or the kids that Pacquiao sparrs with? Some of the most famous people of all time have been boxers and it is mighty arrogant of MMA fans to even try comparing the likes of Chuck Lidell and Tito Ortiz to these. MMA is very popular but as many have said, it's fanbase has so far been quite limited to young, white guys - boxing is popular throughout the world.

On to the whole 'MMA is real fighting but boxing is just one aspect of fighting'. Boxing is a sport just like MMA is a sport. Why does it matter what works in real life? MMA doesn't even work in real life. You try that sh*t in real life and risk a jail sentence, getting stabbed/shot, beaten up by your opponents gang. The whole argument is just stupid pointless. As if you can hug on the floor for 5 minutes in real life and get stood up by the ref if nothing is happening?

I prefer boxing because for me, stand up fighting is more exciting and not many MMA guys have decent punching skills. The skills, speed and endurance of Mayweather is a thing of beauty in my opinion. The power and speed of Pacquiao is just unbelievable. I don't enjoy watching guys get wrap their legs around each other.

Having said that, George St Pierre is my favourite MMA fighter by far and he isn't a stand up fighter. I think he is an amazing athlete but most of all I like the respect he shows at all times which brings me to another point; I find the lack of respect often seen in UFC quite hard to watch. In my opinion,one of the ugliest sporting moments I have ever seen is when Brock Lesnar decided to taunt his opponent AFTER he had beaten him. Watch the Condenter and Ultimate Fighter series' and compare the difference in attitude between the two sets of guys. Those Ultimate Fighter guys are a BAD avdert for the sport - getting drunk and fighting each other in their house. The Contender guys just want to be the best and earn money for their families.

People like Joe Rogan who aggressively try to attack boxing are only serve to take away the credibility of MMA. The two are different sports and will attract different types of fans. For me, a good MMA fight will never be as exciting as a good boxing fight but that is just my opinion. I respect the hard work of boxers more so than I do MMA fighters.

 

[75th]

Just my $.02, but boxing fights are, for the most part, boring as all fuck.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Boxing IS dead, wtf are you talking about? Just because some of the FEW headlines make BANK doesn't mean anything. Do you know HOW MANY belts their are? The average fan has NO clue about the set up, most of the belt are meaningless, and UNLESS its a HEADLINE fight, no one gives a fuck. They are boring to watch 8 out of 10 times. So much politicing and other BS goes on just to gt a decent fight signed, that no one cares.

Seriously, MMA is where it's at, period.

Boxing is Punch, Block, Move...The training for MMA fighters is SOOO much more brutal. They lean MANY different styles and skills...WTF are you talking about?

-Legacy

 

[the_alcatraz]

Just my $.02, but boxing fights are, for the most part, boring as all fuck.

Agreed.

 

[stosstruppe]

Just my $.02, but boxing fights are, for the most part, boring as all fuck.

+2

I'd rather watch an episode of "What Katie Did Next" (Kate Price / Jordan) with her current MMA fighter husband Alex Reid than a boxing match.

 

[jd_uk]

Boxing IS dead, wtf are you talking about? Just because some of the FEW headlines make BANK doesn't mean anything. Do you know HOW MANY belts their are? The average fan has NO clue about the set up, most of the belt are meaningless, and UNLESS its a HEADLINE fight, no one gives a fuck. They are boring to watch 8 out of 10 times. So much politicing and other BS goes on just to gt a decent fight signed, that no one cares.

Seriously, MMA is where it's at, period.

Boxing is Punch, Block, Move...The training for MMA fighters is SOOO much more brutal. They lean MANY different styles and skills...WTF are you talking about?

-Legacy

See this is the type of defensiveness (Joe Rogan style) which I think takes away from the credibility of the sport. Btw, the responses aren't surprising as I know how big MMA is on bodybuilding boards.

seriously though..how can you ask what I am talking about? We aren't just talking some big fights - ANY of the headline fighters in boxing will make more than any MMA figher. Hell, even Amir Khan is a multi millionaire and he's already lost. Beating an over the hill Barrera is his only notable victory. If Mayweather and Pacquiao fight they will each make over 100 times more than any MMA fighter ever has in a fight. Anyone who says the interest is not there in boxing is having a laugh and ends up sounding stupid ala Joe Rogan.

The training is more brutal? It is just as tough, but in different ways. A MMA fighter would struggle with boxing training and vice versa. I've done both (boxing a couple of times a week and MMA slightly less regularly) and I find hitting the heavy bag the hardest of all. Grappling is tiring and requires a different sort of strength but is nowhere near as cardio intensive. MMA fighters obviously have to incorporate more weightlifting into their training but then don't have to run the distances that boxers do. Boxers (besides heavy weights) do a lot more body weight work to keep the speed that MMA fighters lose by training to grapple. It's just different. To say is is tougher is just ignorant. To be the best in either sport takes ridiculous amounts of work and pain.

The amount of belts in boxing has I agree been a farce at times but in ways can also make things more exciting in my opinion. It means so much more when a boxer unifies the division. Also, the super six tournaments are proving very successful for those who have the need to know for certain who is THE best. Again, this is partly for ignorant fans because styles make fights and sometimes there is no 'best'. Only rarely do you have real stand out fighters like Pacquaio and Mayweather. I know what you're saying but for me, the controversy of boxing and the setting up of fights makes it MORE interesting than having one company dominating an industry rolling out event one hundred and something after the other.

I forgot to mention in my original post. The main man behind UFC Dana White is a disgrace to his own sport - obviously a very good business man to have marketed UFC (mostly to people who share his type of personality) but the way he speaks on the internet to journalists and the like hasn't done the sport any favours in my opinion.

 

[75th]

For the record...Im not disparaging boxing as a sport. I just think MMA is infinitely more exciting, and it seems as though its filled with classier people as well.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

This makes no sense: Boxer train in BOXING. MMA fighters train in Boxing, Judo, Muy Thai, Ju-Jitsu, Wrestling, and I could go on and on. For someone to say "boxers train harder" is BS. Plus boxers to train to get thrown around and have to defend submissions, they train to have BIG gloves block their face.

People are so defensive because it should be common sense for people to see MMA fighter train harder and give more exciting events, and that no one cares about boxing any more.

-Legacy

 

[jd_uk]

People are so defensive because it should be common sense for people to see MMA fighter train harder and give more exciting events,


and that no one cares about boxing any more.

-Legacy

lol, come on man you can do better than this. It's ridiculous to say nobody cares about it given the undeniable facts that I've posted.

Of course it makes sense to say that to be the best in either sport requires the same level of effort and toughness. No, boxers don't have to learn how to perfect a leg lock or a kick but they do have to develop what they do to a much higher level than an MMA fighter would. An MMA fighter is a 'jack of all trades' but definietly not a master of boxing because they are too slow (from weight training) and have to stand a greater range because of the kicks. You done both? I find weight training way less painful than an early morning 10 mile run followed by sparring. MMA fighters obviously do less cardio because they want to keep the muscle on for ground fighting and don't have to have the same level of speed and cardio conditioning for their fights. Btw I do weights twice a week too just because I'm vain(!) but try to do enough boxing to stay fast.

 

[Daeo]

Gotta agree with djlegacy. Boxing is boring. Who wants to watch 12 rounds of the same shit over and over. I can't remember the last time a headline fight ended up in a ko or tko. And who gives a fuck how much a fighter makes? It's not like I'm getting any of that money...

 

[ceo]

YouTube - ESPN: UFC vs. BOXING

Watched this video and I can't help thinking how pathetic Joe Rogan sounds. Here's my take on it:

I like some MMA. I can respect the skills and athleticism of the fighters but the whole 'boxing is dead' argument you hear from some ignorant MMA fans is just BS.

I can't make it past this.

Cliff Notes?

 

[jd_uk]

Gotta agree with djlegacy. Boxing is boring. Who wants to watch 12 rounds of the same shit over and over. I can't remember the last time a headline fight ended up in a ko or tko. And who gives a fuck how much a fighter makes? It's not like I'm getting any of that money...

Then you obviously don't watch much.

It matters when people like Rogan say nobody cares about it. Umm obviously they do, otherwise one guy wouldn't be making $60 mill from the interest of the public!!

 

[grubd]

Boxing has skills involved in the psychology. It is much more interesting to watch than mma, though I do watch both the boxing and ufc big time ppv's. The most exciting part of mma is when the 2 gladiators are standing up slugging it out not when they are rolling around and clutching like fairies.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Put your best boxer in an MMA ring...see what happens...a ONE Trick pony won't survive. Just sayin...

 

[jd_uk]

Put your best boxer in an MMA ring...see what happens...a ONE Trick pony won't survive. Just sayin...

You REALLY aren't getting this are you??

 

[Daeo]

Then you obviously don't watch much.

It matters when people like Rogan say nobody cares about it. Umm obviously they do, otherwise one guy wouldn't be making $60 mill from the interest of the public!!

Just saying. Used to watch boxing back in the day. Anymore it's usually 12 rounds of guys hugging each other and sneaking in punches here and there. Most of the people I know would rather get a UFC fight than a boxing match. MMA provides a lot more excitement IMO...

 

[jd_uk]

The most exciting part of mma is when the 2 gladiators are standing up slugging it out not when they are rolling around and clutching like fairies.

Yep. The ground game is interesting but it just will obviously never be as exciting to the average fan as stand up contact. For those that say 'yeah but it's more technical'...well just watch Mayweather, that's all I can say to that.

Anyway, I'm off for the night. 4 pages of Ken Shamrock nut hugging by the morning.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

You REALLY aren't getting this are you??

People are saying no one cares about BOXING because noone (majority) dont care!

Wow one of the BIGGEST fights in boxing a guy made 60mil, its sports, EVERYONE makes bank, and Mayweather is the TOP TOP TOP TOP draw in boxing right now. You arent proving your point or proving Joe Rogan wrong.

 

[grubd]

People are saying no one cares about BOXING because noone (majority) dont care!

Wow one of the BIGGEST fights in boxing a guy made 60mil, its sports, EVERYONE makes bank, and Mayweather is the TOP TOP TOP TOP draw in boxing right now. You arent proving your point or proving Joe Rogan wrong.

Joe Rogan is soooo damn annoying. They need a Vin Scully or Howard Cossell on the mike in UFC and that would be the last piece to make it huge, a great story teller. Jim Ross of WWE and WCW fame is out of work and a fan of mma, I suggest Dana White give him a call.

 

[PICK3]

boxing sucks!




oh yeah ... Aztec in 3, 2, ...

 

[Oceano]

Put your best boxer in an MMA ring...see what happens...a ONE Trick pony won't survive. Just sayin...

I prefer boxing to all that floor-hugging stuff, but you're quite correct to suggest a boxer would get destroyed in the street or in an MMA ring by an MMA fighter.

 

[grubd]

I prefer boxing to all that floor-hugging stuff, but you're quite correct to suggest a boxer would get destroyed in the street or in an MMA ring by an MMA fighter.

How bout put the mma guy in a boxing ring and watch him get destroyed, it goes both ways

 

[Oceano]

How bout put the mma guy in a boxing ring and watch him get destroyed, it goes both ways

yeah but what I would say is the MMA ring is more akin to the 'street' than Marquess of Queensbury rules. As I said, I'm a boxing fan and find MMA very boring but your floor-hugger beats a boxer 9 times outta 10 imho.

 

[Daeo]

And most top boxers only fight twice a year, and that's if you're lucky. Kind of hard to get pumped up for a fight when I have to wait a year for it. And on top of it there's a good chance it's going to go to decision. They're two different entities. But if I'm going to spend 50 bucks I'm pretty much guaranteed to get more excitement out of MMA...

 

[b0und]

Just my $.02, but boxing fights are, for the most part, boring as all fuck.

This ^^^

I would still watch Pacman vs Mayweather. But other than that I would rather watch paint dry.





b0und ( )

 

[puertorricane]

boxers are professionals that get paid millions of dollars to do what they do... MMA is just a different kind of WWE is more popular now but they are street fightes with no real skills

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

boxers are professionals that get paid millions of dollars to do what they do... MMA is just a different kind of WWE is more popular now but they are street fightes with no real skills

U r the biggest retard to ever make a post...Period...

If anyone says MMA fighters are LESS skilled than boxers, even though they train in boxing plus about half a dozen other martial arts, they should kill themselves...The lack of common sense is mind blowing.

People trained in 1 skill, which requires SKILL and hard training YES I agree, but compare that to people that train hard in MANY martial arts + Boxing + Wrestling and train to take abuse from punches, knees, kicks, throws, and submissions, not just big gloves.

Give me a break...this isnt even counting the entertainment factor. I dont understand how ANYONE can stand behind boxing for any of these reasons.

-Legacy

 

[redsamurai]

How bout put the mma guy in a boxing ring and watch him get destroyed, it goes both ways

put shane carwin in a boxing ring with any HW from the last 10 years and you'll have the most entertaining boxing match in decades. NOt saying he'd outright win, but his MMA mentality would not permit him to cover up and scamper around the ring like a fairy for 12 rounds. Win, lose or draw he would make sure it was settled within a few rounds. Unless he was fighting said sissy who ran from him the whole fight. Boxing would still be tolerable if there were still grown ass men in the sport. The guys in boxing now are skilled fighters who know how to run from the "men" for 12 rounds and stick and move just enough to get the decision. Take those big ass gloves from boxing and put em in MMA style gloves and I mihgt start watching again.

 

[Oceano]

put shane carwin in a boxing ring with any HW from the last 10 years and you'll have the most entertaining boxing match in decades. NOt saying he'd outright win, but his MMA mentality would not permit him to cover up and scamper around the ring like a fairy for 12 rounds. Win, lose or draw he would make sure it was settled within a few rounds. Unless he was fighting said sissy who ran from him the whole fight. Boxing would still be tolerable if there were still grown ass men in the sport. The guys in boxing now are skilled fighters who know how to run from the "men" for 12 rounds and stick and move just enough to get the decision. Take those big ass gloves from boxing and put em in MMA style gloves and I mihgt start watching again.

or just make the boxing ring smaller

co-sign tho, watching runner-style boxers isn't fun

 

[twenty47]

boxing is dead. its a fact. statistics show this. pac man and mayweather is the only fight left anyone cares about. yes i will pay to watch that. besides those two no one knows anything about boxing anymore because they dont care. but you say the top names in UFC and people will know who they are even if they barely watch or care about UFC.

I heard the statistic about the average mma fighter getting paid higher then the average boxer but i cant recall now.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

LMAO, most MMA guy are trained boxers. MMA Fighter has a BETTER shot in the boxing ring with a boxer than a Boxer in an MMA ring. Anyone who thinks boxing > MMA loses all respect for lack of common sense. This argument is so one sided if you have any common sense it's insane to think other wise. As for the "floor hugging", Jujitsu fighters go the to ground for submissions, I seriously doubt any one of you would be thinking it's boring or pointless if someone was trying to put an arm bar on you. You obviously have no clue the amount of skill and training involved in these styles, thus showing your ignorance for the sport, which is the only way you can make these arguments anyways. Overall lack of respect and stereotyping along with lack of knowledge are all very apparent with the boxing > mma defense.

 

[redsamurai]

or just make the boxing ring smaller

co-sign tho, watching runner-style boxers isn't fun

yeah but neither is watching guys like machida or silva. Silva at least though can turn it on when he wants to.

I like the make the gloves smaller idea. It evens the field for the power punchers but also lets the little guys sting a bit more. I dunno, unless boxers feel it would unduly strain their pedicures....

 

[Oceano]

LMAO, most MMA guy are trained boxers. MMA Fighter has a BETTER shot in the boxing ring with a boxer than a Boxer in an MMA ring. Anyone who thinks boxing > MMA loses all respect for lack of common sense. This argument is so one sided if you have any common sense it's insane to think other wise. As for the "floor hugging", Jujitsu fighters go the to ground for submissions, I seriously doubt any one of you would be thinking it's boring or pointless if someone was trying to put an arm bar on you. You obviously have no clue the amount of skill and training involved in these styles, thus showing your ignorance for the sport, which is the only way you can make these arguments anyways. Overall lack of respect and stereotyping along with lack of knowledge are all very apparent with the boxing > mma defense.

MMA is probably really skilled etc. but that's what a lot of it looks like to me. Maybe you have to have practised a martial art to fully appreciate it, a lot of times I just don't enjoy the spectacle.

 

[AztecWarrior]

Here we go again. The muscle pumping ed hardy wearing and wwe fans have come out in full force today. Don't got the time, but I'm gonna come back to this. MMA only trashes boxing because it's the most popular and well paid combat sport out there. You don't see these fans call out karate or kickboxing like that because they are jealous of the legacy of the history of boxing and the money it generates. No need to be bitter, enjoy both sports.

 

[redsamurai]

Here we go again. The muscle pumping ed hardy wearing and wwe fans have come out in full force today. Don't got the time, but I'm gonna come back to this. MMA only trashes boxing because it's the most popular and well paid combat sport out there. You don't see these fans call out karate or kickboxing like that because they are jealous of the legacy of the history of boxing and the money it generates. No need to be bitter, enjoy both sports.

not sure it's about jealousy bro.....we all know the legacy of boxing, which is "precisely" why it's so disappointing now. The warriors are gone from that sport. MMA may very well eventually head down the same path, we'll see. Boxing for sure is dead though. And not because of the sport itself, but for the competitors.

 

[AztecWarrior]

not sure it's about jealousy bro.....we all know the legacy of boxing, which is "precisely" why it's so disappointing now. The warriors are gone from that sport. MMA may very well eventually head down the same path, we'll see. Boxing for sure is dead though. And not because of the sport itself, but for the competitors.

Not even close. All the 5 yrs old that are in the boxing gym as I type prove that invalid. There is always a new star waiting to take center stage as one heads on out. One door close's and another one opens. Just causes someone dosen't like it dosen't mean it won't keep on going. LOL! Boxing will always be around with an audience regradless what anyone says. Don't see why mma fans feel the need to prove themselve's somuch and there bitterness towards boxing really shows. That's sad those are a big make up of what the fan base of mma are. They lack respect, when even your top fighter's in mma show praise to boxers.

 

[AztecWarrior]

For the record...Im not disparaging boxing as a sport. I just think MMA is infinitely more exciting, and it seems as though its filled with classier people as well.

That's just because the average mma gym monthly payment's are like 175.00 dollars a month. WHen you can pay 50 dollars a month in other fight arts. It's geared towards those kind of people. It's starting to change now and were starting to see kids from different hard working background enter the sports, but boxing will always be a better route for people looking to fight there way out of hard stricken area's. More money. Boxing has more differen't classes of people in thier sport then mma. I'm glad to see the Cains, the Lawal's, the diaz's brothers, and the jamie yagers enter in. The kids from the tougher side of town are coming up and changing things. Your statement show's me you aren't to found of other people that aren't like you. That dosen't make you better or anyone else for that matter.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Not even close. All the 5 yrs old that are in the boxing gym as I type prove that invalid. There is always a new star waiting to take center stage as one heads on out. One door close's and another one opens. Just causes someone dosen't like it dosen't mean it won't keep on going. LOL! Boxing will always be around with an audience regradless what anyone says. Don't see why mma fans feel the need to prove themselve's somuch and there bitterness towards boxing really shows. That's sad those are a big make up of what the fan base of mma are. They lack respect, when even your top fighter's in mma show praise to boxers.

Dude just cuz kids take part in it means nothing. Kids still play baseball and in MOST cities in America the sport is dead, unless its a city with a BIG bank roll. There are many stadiums that can't fill half way anymore and it's "americas past time". I mean I was watching ESPN today and they had BOXING journalists saying how boring and how bad the sport is getting. I have nothing AGAINST Boxing, I have a problem with people saying boxing training is harder or the fighters have to be more skilled, its complete BS seeing as MMA fighters train in MANY different style INCLUDING boxing. They work on stand up, grapple, submission, take-downs, boxing, wrestling, muy thai, etc etc etc. It is a ludicrous statement to say that boxers are better or harder trained fighters. Its an over generalization for one and for two it's an opinion based on a fantasy. Nothign against boxing, I just don't approve of "mma" bashing when the "arguments" are weak and BS.

 

[redsamurai]

and where all these stars ready to step in? I suspect that alot of kids training today in boxing will eventually use that training as a springboard into MMA, which I think the writing is on the wall for being the future of combat sports. I love the notion of boxing or "standup" fighting in general.....I just think that pure boxers are too specialized anymore and that makes for ever increasingly boring fights. Boxing needs an infuse of skilled brawlers who can bang for more than two rounds. They get that and maybe it's a relevant sport again. The money that's still in boxing is simply left over good will and an entrenched infrastructure in vegas that doesn't like these new MMA upstarts that think they can control their own brand. Letting the inmates run the asylum was the worst thing that boxing ever did.

 

[AztecWarrior]

Dude just cuz kids take part in it means nothing. Kids still play baseball and in MOST cities in America the sport is dead, unless its a city with a BIG bank roll. There are many stadiums that can't fill half way anymore and it's "americas past time". I mean I was watching ESPN today and they had BOXING journalists saying how boring and how bad the sport is getting. I have nothing AGAINST Boxing, I have a problem with people saying boxing training is harder or the fighters have to be more skilled, its complete BS seeing as MMA fighters train in MANY different style INCLUDING boxing. They work on stand up, grapple, submission, take-downs, boxing, wrestling, muy thai, etc etc etc. It is a ludicrous statement to say that boxers are better or harder trained fighters. Its an over generalization for one and for two it's an opinion based on a fantasy. Nothign against boxing, I just don't approve of "mma" bashing when the "arguments" are weak and BS.

There is more money in boxing for the fighters, and there is a deeper talent pool in boxing....those are facts. Those facts lead to the conclusion that it is more difficult to succeed in boxing than it is in mma. sure, in mma you do all disciplines of fighting and whatnot. but the talent pool is shallow in comparison, the level of competition is not as high - and those are the key elements that determine the difficulty of competing in a sport. mma is simply not developed enough to be more difficult to compete in than boxing right now.
To say mma is tougher JUST because it is more varied is flawed. that's like saying being a jack of all trades is more difficult than being a master of one - that's not necessarily the case. The fact that high school teachers, WWE wrestlers, engineers can just leave their occupation and compete in mma at the highest level within a just a few years (after their physical prime btw) is TELLING. Training in boxing is more difficult because boxing isnt a natural thing. When someone throws a punch, based purely on instinct people put their hands up, they try to walk or move out of distance, they try to grab the hands of the person throwing the punch. What separates one great boxer from another is often intangible things that you cant train or teach like heart, mettle, chin. The action takes place in a very confined space with a limited number of techniques one can use in the ring. Great boxers are trained to do the unnatural at an instinctive level. Watch someone like Floyd slip and counter a punch - that isnt natural. To stand ones ground and understand the distance and timing to not get hit while throwing a counter can only come with years of repetition to the point where it becomes instinctual.

MMA as a sport in general, to contrast with boxing, is more often a sport about exploiting the weaknesses of your opponents game. A fighter with a background in wrestling often wont look to engage in standup with a guy who has a background in kickboxing. He takes the fight to the ground and tries to exploit the perceived weakness of his opponent. Rarely do intangibles like heart and mettle come into play because rarely will you find in MMA a fight that is a war of attrition. Often fans see very early in fights who will win and who will lose because they can see where a fight will go and who holds a distinct advantage over who in a specific aspect of the game. Doesnt mean thats always the case since the small gloves and quick subs can change all that, but more often than not people can see who will win a fight based on these advantages going in. In the end these are facts, truth, and reality. You can't ignore what is really real and what isn't. Fans of mmma need to worry about there own sport and stop hating on a sport that has already stamped it's mark in history and popularity around the work has been established.

 

[redsamurai]

wow, you don't watch MMA dude. Are you seriously saying that no MMA fighter has ever had to really dig down and gut out a win? Are you kidding? How many times have I seen a dude who's arm looks about an inch from snapping somehow twist out of it. How many times have i seen a dude who by all rights should be sleeping/snoring right there on the mat somehow fight off the choke and get back to his feet. Fuck dude....that was a horrible argument to make cause ain't nobody in boxing ever have to deal with half that. I know boxers get into deep waters going into the later rounds.....but nothing like a grueling 5 round MMA fight.

 

[AztecWarrior]

and where all these stars ready to step in? I suspect that alot of kids training today in boxing will eventually use that training as a springboard into MMA, which I think the writing is on the wall for being the future of combat sports. I love the notion of boxing or "standup" fighting in general.....I just think that pure boxers are too specialized anymore and that makes for ever increasingly boring fights. Boxing needs an infuse of skilled brawlers who can bang for more than two rounds. They get that and maybe it's a relevant sport again. The money that's still in boxing is simply left over good will and an entrenched infrastructure in vegas that doesn't like these new MMA upstarts that think they can control their own brand. Letting the inmates run the asylum was the worst thing that boxing ever did.

Boxing has many guys on the rise in the sport. Chad dawson, abe concepcion, David haye, juanma lopez, lucian bute, Yuriorkis Gamboa, Guillermo Rigondeaux, anotino escanlte, andre ward, and so many more. I can go on and on. Haha. Stop being funny.

 

[AztecWarrior]

wow, you don't watch MMA dude. Are you seriously saying that no MMA fighter has ever had to really dig down and gut out a win? Are you kidding? How many times have I seen a dude who's arm looks about an inch from snapping somehow twist out of it. How many times have i seen a dude who by all rights should be sleeping/snoring right there on the mat somehow fight off the choke and get back to his feet. Fuck dude....that was a horrible argument to make cause ain't nobody in boxing ever have to deal with half that. I know boxers get into deep waters going into the later rounds.....but nothing like a grueling 5 round MMA fight.

Same could be said on both ends. The punishment level is vastly different. The number of deaths and complications are proof of the difficulty. MMA is more of a natural thing. I love watching mma but I know the difference of both. Matches do happen like that but it isn't always come down to that and I think you know that. Unlike most mma fans, I dont want to rain on your parade. The boxing community has nothing to prove and mma shouldn't either. Why be mad and bitter at another for success? Makes no sense. They can co exist if the respect and proper credit was given. I love all aspects of fighting, why the hell would I be training in MMA, if I didn't like it? Makes no sense does it? I'm not greedy, I like it all.

 

[AztecWarrior]

See this is the type of defensiveness (Joe Rogan style) which I think takes away from the credibility of the sport. Btw, the responses aren't surprising as I know how big MMA is on bodybuilding boards.

seriously though..how can you ask what I am talking about? We aren't just talking some big fights - ANY of the headline fighters in boxing will make more than any MMA figher. Hell, even Amir Khan is a multi millionaire and he's already lost. Beating an over the hill Barrera is his only notable victory. If Mayweather and Pacquiao fight they will each make over 100 times more than any MMA fighter ever has in a fight. Anyone who says the interest is not there in boxing is having a laugh and ends up sounding stupid ala Joe Rogan.

The training is more brutal? It is just as tough, but in different ways. A MMA fighter would struggle with boxing training and vice versa. I've done both (boxing a couple of times a week and MMA slightly less regularly) and I find hitting the heavy bag the hardest of all. Grappling is tiring and requires a different sort of strength but is nowhere near as cardio intensive. MMA fighters obviously have to incorporate more weightlifting into their training but then don't have to run the distances that boxers do. Boxers (besides heavy weights) do a lot more body weight work to keep the speed that MMA fighters lose by training to grapple. It's just different. To say is is tougher is just ignorant. To be the best in either sport takes ridiculous amounts of work and pain.

The amount of belts in boxing has I agree been a farce at times but in ways can also make things more exciting in my opinion. It means so much more when a boxer unifies the division. Also, the super six tournaments are proving very successful for those who have the need to know for certain who is THE best. Again, this is partly for ignorant fans because styles make fights and sometimes there is no 'best'. Only rarely do you have real stand out fighters like Pacquaio and Mayweather. I know what you're saying but for me, the controversy of boxing and the setting up of fights makes it MORE interesting than having one company dominating an industry rolling out event one hundred and something after the other.

I forgot to mention in my original post. The main man behind UFC Dana White is a disgrace to his own sport - obviously a very good business man to have marketed UFC (mostly to people who share his type of personality) but the way he speaks on the internet to journalists and the like hasn't done the sport any favours in my opinion.

MMA fans are so insecure. Not sure why they can't just enjoy both fights. They don't talk crap about any of combat sport...man, i was told so many times after the record breaking purse of floyd-oscar that boxing was dead and there was nobody left. But i don.t know what ufc fight i should be looking forward to and why guys like liddell and coujture are still being peddled around.

anyways, i digress. You have a lot of people who watch ufc because it is the ufc. problem is those types of fans aren't gonna stick around for long/ if u really think all those drunk bleached blond girls with ed hardy wearing friends are at the ufc because they have a keen interest in the subtleties of jiu-jitsu forget it. MMA was (and relative to boxing is) new, fresh, well marketed to a juvenile crowd, but is already losing steam. The build up of new exciting ufc fighters is false.

And at the end of the day, at no point in their respective modern histories could their be an MMA fight put together that would be remotely as big as a potential boxing megafight. There will still be more people willing to shell out coin to watch a guy like Pac beat up an overmatched opponent than their would be for Fedor or Brock.

And finally, all these articles tend to reduce global sports to america only. Just let the debates go and watch what you like.

 

[AztecWarrior]

Put your best boxer in an MMA ring...see what happens...a ONE Trick pony won't survive. Just sayin...

LOL! We haven't seen a prime boxer at there best enter. You think what anderson can make a mockery of fighters, what you think of someone like mayweather would do. There isn't anyone in mma with those reflexes, speed, and footwork in mma. And to think there arent any good boxers that don't know how to wrestle isn't true. We have o'neil bell, mike alvardo, vic darchinyan, David haye, kermit cintron, and antonio davis for examples. Hell Pacquiao did mauy thai and the klitschkos did kickboxing but turned to boxing for the money. To think they wouldn't have other tools is really blinded by a haterade to see boxing do bad.

 

[AztecWarrior]

People are saying no one cares about BOXING because noone (majority) dont care!

Wow one of the BIGGEST fights in boxing a guy made 60mil, its sports, EVERYONE makes bank, and Mayweather is the TOP TOP TOP TOP draw in boxing right now. You arent proving your point or proving Joe Rogan wrong.

LOL! this is only north america and canada. MMA fans don't speak for the whole world. Boxing is better known and is watched more throughout the world. I'm putting down facts and you guys are talking dislike for a sport that you don't understand or like. Boxing has a vastly lager following internationally then mma. It's growth has been great but no where near the level of boxing is at the biggest showcase stage of the world.

 

[redsamurai]

dude I'm mad at boxing for "what it has become". I used to love boxing, back in the day when warriors fought. I'm not bitter or mad at it.....now you stop being funny.

And I hear you mentioning all these great up and comers....fine, why aren't they fighting primetime? Could it be because boxing has a horrible system of management that allows fighters who have made it to hand pick their opponents thereby keeping these supposed up and comers from making it? And isn't that what most people are saying sucks about boxing? Even Dana say's he'd still be a boxing fan if they could actually make the fights people want to see. For me at least it's not so much that I don't appreciate the actual sport of boxing, just what it's become. Yes I would still watch a top level MMA match over a boxing one. But take mayweather/pac....I'd watch that over almost any MMA fight right now except Carwin/lesnar or any Fedor fight in the UFC. But how many mayweather/pac like fights are out there? Certainly not in the HW division, they mineswell close that division up it's garbage.

 

[Daeo]

And please explain how MMA is boring when it usually ends in something(KO, TKO, Submission)most times. I'm not watching for a judges decision...

 

[AztecWarrior]

dude I'm mad at boxing for "what it has become". I used to love boxing, back in the day when warriors fought. I'm not bitter or mad at it.....now you stop being funny.

And I hear you mentioning all these great up and comers....fine, why aren't they fighting primetime? Could it be because boxing has a horrible system of management that allows fighters who have made it to hand pick their opponents thereby keeping these supposed up and comers from making it? And isn't that what most people are saying sucks about boxing? Even Dana say's he'd still be a boxing fan if they could actually make the fights people want to see. For me at least it's not so much that I don't appreciate the actual sport of boxing, just what it's become. Yes I would still watch a top level MMA match over a boxing one. But take mayweather/pac....I'd watch that over almost any MMA fight right now except Carwin/lesnar or any Fedor fight in the UFC. But how many mayweather/pac like fights are out there? Certainly not in the HW division, they mineswell close that division up it's garbage.

Just casue the talent hasn't been pushed down everyone's throats dosen't mean they won't be primetime. You prove yourself and have to pay your due as you move up in the ranks in boxing. The potential to showcase the next big thing is there. They don't have to pull out all there cards yet, when you have big names drawing in the crowds, no need to saturate the talent. The way they do things keeps things flowing. They often shown on small time shows througtout the yr. You have to keep in tune to catch the up and coming talent. I agree, I miss the post 70's, 80's, and 90's area of boxing, but matches on that level still and does happen. A lot of awesome matches happen and aren't even shown on tv because internationall the world dosent have the means to showcase every hard fought battle.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

LMAO, these are the most pathetic arguments Ive ever seen. Dude 90% of martial arts are bigger world wide than Boxing...All of your information is horribly wrong or all opinion based in zero fact. Dude the funny thing is you name all of these "up and comers" and I can guarantee that 95% of the population has NO clue who they are. Boxing is for pu$$ys that want thick padded gloves and a bunch of dancing to protect them while they trade jabs and hug for 12 rounds. MMA fighters train in tons of different skills and styles and don't pu$$ out for extra padded protection, boxing = basically the bitches of the fight world...just sayin.

 

[AztecWarrior]

And please explain how MMA is boring when it usually ends in something(KO, TKO, Submission)most times. I'm not watching for a judges decision...

That dosen't alaways happen like wrestlers don't always win by pin, boxer by ko, kickboxer by kicks, and bjj player by subs. It varies by styles of the figthers. Ko's are happening all the time in boxing but going the distance happens as well. MMA has it too. Let's not get confused.

 

[ceo]

 

[jd_uk]

not sure it's about jealousy bro.....we all know the legacy of boxing, which is "precisely" why it's so disappointing now. The warriors are gone from that sport.

Haven't had a chance to read any other replies yet so may reply later but had to laugh at this. Pacquaio is perhaps the fighter ith the best warrior mentality that boxing has had for many years. Did anyone see the Carl Froch v Kessler fight the over night? Tell me that was boring.

 

[jd_uk]

and where all these stars ready to step in? I suspect that alot of kids training today in boxing will eventually use that training as a springboard into MMA, which I think the writing is on the wall for being the future of combat sports. I love the notion of boxing or "standup" fighting in general.....I just think that pure boxers are too specialized anymore and that makes for ever increasingly boring fights. Boxing needs an infuse of skilled brawlers who can bang for more than two rounds. They get that and maybe it's a relevant sport again. The money that's still in boxing is simply left over good will and an entrenched infrastructure in vegas that doesn't like these new MMA upstarts that think they can control their own brand. Letting the inmates run the asylum was the worst thing that boxing ever did.

LOL at this too. How can someone who BLATANTLY doesn't watch much boxing argue about the lack of talent coming through? I could be here all night boring you with names you don't know about.

 

[jd_uk]

There is more money in boxing for the fighters, and there is a deeper talent pool in boxing....those are facts. Those facts lead to the conclusion that it is more difficult to succeed in boxing than it is in mma. sure, in mma you do all disciplines of fighting and whatnot. but the talent pool is shallow in comparison, the level of competition is not as high - and those are the key elements that determine the difficulty of competing in a sport. mma is simply not developed enough to be more difficult to compete in than boxing right now.
To say mma is tougher JUST because it is more varied is flawed. that's like saying being a jack of all trades is more difficult than being a master of one - that's not necessarily the case. The fact that high school teachers, WWE wrestlers, engineers can just leave their occupation and compete in mma at the highest level within a just a few years (after their physical prime btw) is TELLING. Training in boxing is more difficult because boxing isnt a natural thing. When someone throws a punch, based purely on instinct people put their hands up, they try to walk or move out of distance, they try to grab the hands of the person throwing the punch. What separates one great boxer from another is often intangible things that you cant train or teach like heart, mettle, chin. The action takes place in a very confined space with a limited number of techniques one can use in the ring. Great boxers are trained to do the unnatural at an instinctive level. Watch someone like Floyd slip and counter a punch - that isnt natural. To stand ones ground and understand the distance and timing to not get hit while throwing a counter can only come with years of repetition to the point where it becomes instinctual.

MMA as a sport in general, to contrast with boxing, is more often a sport about exploiting the weaknesses of your opponents game. A fighter with a background in wrestling often wont look to engage in standup with a guy who has a background in kickboxing. He takes the fight to the ground and tries to exploit the perceived weakness of his opponent. Rarely do intangibles like heart and mettle come into play because rarely will you find in MMA a fight that is a war of attrition. Often fans see very early in fights who will win and who will lose because they can see where a fight will go and who holds a distinct advantage over who in a specific aspect of the game. Doesnt mean thats always the case since the small gloves and quick subs can change all that, but more often than not people can see who will win a fight based on these advantages going in. In the end these are facts, truth, and reality. You can't ignore what is really real and what isn't. Fans of mmma need to worry about there own sport and stop hating on a sport that has already stamped it's mark in history and popularity around the work has been established.

Damn you put that well.

 

[jd_uk]

Even Dana say's he'd still be a boxing fan if they could actually make the fights people want to see.

um, don't you think Dana White has a vested interest in saying anything which discredits boxing???

 

[AztecWarrior]

http://www.madmoneyrecap.com/B_JJC_stymad.jpg

 

[twenty47]

Haven't had a chance to read any other replies yet so may reply later but had to laugh at this. Pacquaio is perhaps the fighter ith the best warrior mentality that boxing has had for many years. Did anyone see the Carl Froch v Kessler fight the over night? Tell me that was boring.

froch is a brawler i agree. but 9-10 people dont know who the fuck he is. the odds could be even worse. i know who he is bc i stay up to 2am all the time and catch is fights on replay when im bored.

thats the point. there are no superstars left. no fans. people dont have to be fans to recognize randy couture, chuck liddel, tito ortiz, bj penn, gsp, forrest griffin, ramage, ect..

all todays general public could say is ali, tyson, mayweather, pac man.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

As I stated before, when the boxers wanna take their padded gloves off and stop hugging for 12 rounds and we get someone like Tyson in his prime back, MAYBE people will start caring again.

 

[jd_uk]

froch is a brawler i agree. but 9-10 people dont know who the fuck he is. the odds could be even worse. i know who he is bc i stay up to 2am all the time and catch is fights on replay when im bored.

thats the point. there are no superstars left. no fans. people dont have to be fans to recognize randy couture, chuck liddel, tito ortiz, bj penn, gsp, forrest griffin, ramage, ect..

all todays general public could say is ali, tyson, mayweather, pac man.

Sorry but this post just doesn't add up.

First things first: MMA has never and had and probably will never have a name that can compare with the popularity of an Ali and Tyson. Those names are known on a global scale in fact you must have been living on a different planet if you haven't heard of them. Kids in remote villages somewhere know who those guys are.

Now I can pretty much guarantee that in the UK (where MMA has some popularity), the average person on the street has no idea who any of those MMA names that you just mentioned are. MMA fans obviously will have and the more casual fans have probably heard or Lidell, Ortiz, Lesnar (due to WWE) and maybe one or two others.

Now onto the boxers. I mentioned Froch as a response to the comments that there are no warriors/exciting fights and that happened just over a week ago so it is fresh in my mind. Froch has not been well promoted so he doesn't get much attention despite being a good fighter. He kinda lives in the shadow of Calzaghe here. Then we have David Haye - I washed his most recent fight against a washed up Ruiz in the casino a month or so ago and have never seen the place so packed out. David Haye is a HUGE puncher and a very exciting fighter to watch. Far more popular already over here than any MMA fighter. Then we have Amir Khan who is also well promoted and very exciting to watch due to his speed, power and also his slightly weak chin.

What I'm saying is not to be fooled into thinking that these American MMA fighters are that popular on a global scale. You say the average person on the street would only be able to mention Ali, Tyson, Mayweather and Pac but certianly over here that is at least 3, probably 4 more than MMA. Maybe it's different in the US but until an MMA fighter earns even 1/10 of what Mayweather and Pacquiao earn then I'm struggling.

Don't get me wrong, I still like SOME MMA and it has been marketed VERY WELL to its target audience but my posts are a response to idiots like Joe Rogan who claim 'boxing is dead' despite all the facts. It's like having short man syndrome.

 

[jd_uk]

As I stated before, when the boxers wanna take their padded gloves off and stop hugging for 12 rounds and we get someone like Tyson in his prime back, MAYBE people will start caring again.

As awesome as Tyson was, I'd rather watch Pacquiao fight at the moment.

Re the hugging, everyone says the same about MMA. Bob Arum likened it to 'a bunch of homosexuals rolling around on the floor' which is going a bit far and obviously meant to wind people up but that is what a lot of casual fans see. The stand up aspect is always the most exciting part for the average fan.

Re the padded gloves: Those padded gloves were brought in to protect boxers fists from damage. It has the effect that the punches are even harder than they would be anyway and is also the reason why (unfortunately) boxing is more dangerous than MMA. To call them 'fairies' or whatever just shows your ignorance.

 

[twenty47]

i never compared ali tyson to mma fighters. brush up on your reading comprehension. I said those 4 are the only big names left that people know. did i say the mma names were bigger then them?

I didnt know you didnt live in america. obviously i cant tell you how it is over there. but in america boxing is a dead sport.

and here mma fighters make more then boxers. ON AVERAGE.

I have 3 friends that grew up on the south side of chicago. they all grew up boxing. city wide golden glove champs. one nationally ranked in someway i dont know the details. they will tell you boxing is going nowhere. Idk if you have ever heard of the mcgarry (sp) brothers (irish) but one of them coached Ali at some point i saw the pictures in the gym an at his bar he owns. Even both of them openely say MMA is taking over and they hate it.

think what you want about your side of the pond but over here mma is in and boxing is out.


EDIT: are you saying in your last post that boxing gloves cause more damage then mma gloves?

 

[redsamurai]

Haven't had a chance to read any other replies yet so may reply later but had to laugh at this. Pacquaio is perhaps the fighter ith the best warrior mentality that boxing has had for many years. Did anyone see the Carl Froch v Kessler fight the over night? Tell me that was boring.

c'mon you named one dude. One fucking dude. ANd I'll spot you him anyday. However, pac is annoying the shit out of me right now cause he's playin games with mayweather just as much as mayweather is clowning around. Is he really a warrior then? If he was he'd just say let's do it, I will knock your ass through the ropes and piss on you while you're snoring in the lap of one of the judges. And these two guys are the top of the boxing game, the very fucking top.

 

[jd_uk]

i never compared ali tyson to mma fighters. brush up on your reading comprehension. I said those 4 are the only big names left that people know. did i say the mma names were bigger then them?

I didnt know you didnt live in america. obviously i cant tell you how it is over there. but in america boxing is a dead sport.

and here mma fighters make more then boxers. ON AVERAGE.

I have 3 friends that grew up on the south side of chicago. they all grew up boxing. city wide golden glove champs. one nationally ranked in someway i dont know the details. they will tell you boxing is going nowhere. Idk if you have ever heard of the mcgarry (sp) brothers (irish) but one of them coached Ali at some point i saw the pictures in the gym an at his bar he owns. Even both of them openely say MMA is taking over and they hate it.

think what you want about your side of the pond but over here mma is in and boxing is out.


EDIT: are you saying in your last post that boxing gloves cause more damage then mma gloves?

Hang on, You did say that "in boxing there are superstars left". Now of course you aint going to have 20 superstars in any sport, but there are other very exciting fighters. What you do have though are two guys in boxing who are CLEARLY bigger superstars than any in MMA. Mayweather's money is typically generated in the USA. I know many, many boxing fans in the USA who would say the opposite to what you are saying so as your post doesn't add up I have a hard time believing it.

 

[redsamurai]

LOL at this too. How can someone who BLATANTLY doesn't watch much boxing argue about the lack of talent coming through? I could be here all night boring you with names you don't know about.

then name them and tell me when I can watch them fight. If they were so bad ass they'd be gettin pushed. Maybe it is a marketing thing and there really are some badasses in waiting. But if that's the case it just furthers the argument that the current management structure in boxing is corrupt and they're keepign the top fighters pampered and preened by handpicking opponents.

 

[jd_uk]

c'mon you named one dude. One fucking dude. ANd I'll spot you him anyday. However, pac is annoying the shit out of me right now cause he's playin games with mayweather just as much as mayweather is clowning around. Is he really a warrior then? If he was he'd just say let's do it, I will knock your ass through the ropes and piss on you while you're snoring in the lap of one of the judges. And these two guys are the top of the boxing game, the very fucking top.

Come on, have you seen him fight? Anyone who says he is not a warrior in the ring is delusional or very, very biased. When he trains the coaches have to make him stop - that is his mentality.

There is a lot of politics in boxing (it isn't just one company - there is bound to be), but there is SO MUCH money in that fight then it will be sorted at some point I think. A lot of people believe that the delay is some very clever promotional work and if you follow boxing then you'll see it is Bob Arum slowing this fight from happening. He just doesn't like Pacquaio being dictated to before the fight. It's a psychological thing.

 

[AztecWarrior]

As awesome as Tyson was, I'd rather watch Pacquiao fight at the moment.

Re the hugging, everyone says the same about MMA. Bob Arum likened it to 'a bunch of homosexuals rolling around on the floor' which is going a bit far and obviously meant to wind people up but that is what a lot of casual fans see. The stand up aspect is always the most exciting part for the average fan.

Re the padded gloves: Those padded gloves were brought in to protect boxers fists from damage. It has the effect that the punches are even harder than they would be anyway and is also the reason why (unfortunately) boxing is more dangerous than MMA. To call them 'fairies' or whatever just shows your ignorance.

The fact that boxers need more protection for their hands is because of the long periods of damage they take on the daily and their punches are thrown the hardest at there pure level. It's what they do. People break there hands now, without gloves the percent would sky rocket with hand injuries, not to mention brain distoration and number of deaths. Constant punishment is being put on one of the most sensitive part of the human body the brain. It's pointless to even argue with anti-boxing fanatics. WIll have to agree to disagree.

 

[redsamurai]

First, MMA is in it's infancy so to say that there will "NEVER" be an athlete in MMA who will attain the level of ali or tyson is unfounded. Only time will tell that.

Two, there are foreign MMA fighters who in the rest of the world are starting to get to the level of attention that ali and tyson got. We don't hear much about it in the states because the marketing machine here doesn't care too much for foreign athletes unless they sign on the dotted line with an american enterprise. Fedor from what I understand is pretty fucking big in europe and japan. Shit, Bob Sapp attained tyson status in Japan and he didn't do barely anything in the world of MMA.

third, do you really think the average dude walking around europe or asia knows who mayweather and pac are? "maybe" paq cause he's phillipine. I doubt the average dude walking around in south america who isn't a dedicated boxing fan knows too much about those dudes.

Sorry but this post just doesn't add up.

First things first: MMA has never and had and probably will never have a name that can compare with the popularity of an Ali and Tyson. Those names are known on a global scale in fact you must have been living on a different planet if you haven't heard of them. Kids in remote villages somewhere know who those guys are.

Now I can pretty much guarantee that in the UK (where MMA has some popularity), the average person on the street has no idea who any of those MMA names that you just mentioned are. MMA fans obviously will have and the more casual fans have probably heard or Lidell, Ortiz, Lesnar (due to WWE) and maybe one or two others.

Now onto the boxers. I mentioned Froch as a response to the comments that there are no warriors/exciting fights and that happened just over a week ago so it is fresh in my mind. Froch has not been well promoted so he doesn't get much attention despite being a good fighter. He kinda lives in the shadow of Calzaghe here. Then we have David Haye - I washed his most recent fight against a washed up Ruiz in the casino a month or so ago and have never seen the place so packed out. David Haye is a HUGE puncher and a very exciting fighter to watch. Far more popular already over here than any MMA fighter. Then we have Amir Khan who is also well promoted and very exciting to watch due to his speed, power and also his slightly weak chin.

What I'm saying is not to be fooled into thinking that these American MMA fighters are that popular on a global scale. You say the average person on the street would only be able to mention Ali, Tyson, Mayweather and Pac but certianly over here that is at least 3, probably 4 more than MMA. Maybe it's different in the US but until an MMA fighter earns even 1/10 of what Mayweather and Pacquiao earn then I'm struggling.

Don't get me wrong, I still like SOME MMA and it has been marketed VERY WELL to its target audience but my posts are a response to idiots like Joe Rogan who claim 'boxing is dead' despite all the facts. It's like having short man syndrome.

 

[AztecWarrior]

Journal of Combative Sport: Boxing Fatalities Data, SvinthJack Broughton

And it isn't even updated.

 

[redsamurai]

as awesome as Tyson was, I'd rather watch Pacquiao fight at the moment.

really? you'd rather watch a 140 pound phillipino dude fight than a snarling, drooling animal who punched the soul out of people? Sorry, I respect Paq...he's a beast for his size. But to say his fights are even near as entertaining as Tysons is just ridiculous and you're now trying to scramble for reasons why boxing is still relevant. People in my gym stopped their workouts and watched the tv screen when ESPN was showing tysons greatest. That would not happen if Paq was up there.

Re the padded gloves: Those padded gloves were brought in to protect boxers fists from damage. It has the effect that the punches are even harder than they would be anyway and is also the reason why (unfortunately) boxing is more dangerous than MMA. To call them 'fairies' or whatever just shows your ignorance

the punches increase the chance of a knockout by increasing the chance of connecting with "the button". But you know full well that you can knock someone out with a little jab if you hit the spot just right. Actual damage though is greatly decreased with the bigger gloves. Fights would probably not go 12 rounds with the smaller gloves, and that would be fine with me. If somebody hasn't been rocked after 5-6 rounds I'm startin to lose interest. And taht goes for MMA as well.

 

[AztecWarrior]

i never compared ali tyson to mma fighters. brush up on your reading comprehension. I said those 4 are the only big names left that people know. did i say the mma names were bigger then them?

I didnt know you didnt live in america. obviously i cant tell you how it is over there. but in america boxing is a dead sport.

and here mma fighters make more then boxers. ON AVERAGE.

I have 3 friends that grew up on the south side of chicago. they all grew up boxing. city wide golden glove champs. one nationally ranked in someway i dont know the details. they will tell you boxing is going nowhere. Idk if you have ever heard of the mcgarry (sp) brothers (irish) but one of them coached Ali at some point i saw the pictures in the gym an at his bar he owns. Even both of them openely say MMA is taking over and they hate it.

think what you want about your side of the pond but over here mma is in and boxing is out.


EDIT: are you saying in your last post that boxing gloves cause more damage then mma gloves?

Show me currency numbers that they are dead, even in america it's not at it's highest peak here, but does well. When a fighter is earning 60 mil for 1 fight, your logic don't make sense. It's one thing to say something and to actually see prove. I'm a follwer of both and the stars are there. You need to open your eyes alittle. If you are gonna discredit something pull up some facts and not be getting mad. I have nothing against MMA but when you attack someone, expect to be attacked back. Nothing is better. They both are wonderful to watch at there best.

 

[jd_uk]

then name them and tell me when I can watch them fight. If they were so bad ass they'd be gettin pushed. Maybe it is a marketing thing and there really are some badasses in waiting. But if that's the case it just furthers the argument that the current management structure in boxing is corrupt and they're keepign the top fighters pampered and preened by handpicking opponents.

Some of my favourite fighters to watch at the moment are Mayweather, Pacquiao, Haye, Khan, Froch, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley despite being schooled, Paul Williams and maybe BHop just for his old school skills. As for the up and coming names there are loads but there's no point me coming out with names if you don't even like the sport. This 17 year old kid looks damn good though YouTube - 17 year old Jose Benavedez and Manny Pacquiao sparring.avi.

Yes there is corruption in boxing, some of it is terrible. Yes there is handpicking. But it's not like boxing is basically just one company. I've been on MMA forums where they all claim the greatest is Fedor - however he won't even fight the supposedly big names in UFC. I just don't know how people criticise boxing politics when MMA is basically just one company dominating (and paying sh*t) and anyone outside of that is just internet myth.

btw I'm out for the night!

 

[redsamurai]

Come on, have you seen him fight? Anyone who says he is not a warrior in the ring is delusional or very, very biased. When he trains the coaches have to make him stop - that is his mentality.

There is a lot of politics in boxing (it isn't just one company - there is bound to be), but there is SO MUCH money in that fight then it will be sorted at some point I think. A lot of people believe that the delay is some very clever promotional work and if you follow boxing then you'll see it is Bob Arum slowing this fight from happening. He just doesn't like Pacquaio being dictated to before the fight. It's a psychological thing.

that might be right, and I'm not saying that paq isn't an animal in the ring. I sure hope that this is marketing bullshit cause both of them look like fairies for this. WTF was that about Paq not wanting to be tested a couple days before the fight? They said it was cause he's scared of needles? C'mon dude....you have to admit that doesn't look good for the sport.

 

[redsamurai]

I'll have to look these dudes up, any of em HW's?

Some of my favourite fighters to watch at the moment are Mayweather, Pacquiao, Haye, Khan, Froch, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley despite being schooled, Paul Williams and maybe BHop just for his old school skills. As for the up and coming names there are loads but there's no point me coming out with names if you don't even like the sport. This 17 year old kid looks damn good though YouTube - 17 year old Jose Benavedez and Manny Pacquiao sparring.avi.

Yes there is corruption in boxing, some of it is terrible. Yes there is handpicking. But it's not like boxing is basically just one company. I've been on MMA forums where they all claim the greatest is Fedor - however he won't even fight the supposedly big names in UFC. I just don't know how people criticise boxing politics when MMA is basically just one company dominating (and paying sh*t) and anyone outside of that is just internet myth.

btw I'm out for the night!

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

LMAO, you keep talking about the boxers needing protection because of their super awesome punching ability...sadly thats all they have because, well its all they can do and its all they train to do...geeez that's tough. MMA guys TRAIN in boxing as well as many other skills, so how is it that you are giving all the credit to boxers for punching? MMA fighters practice with their hands as much as boxers but they also train every other aspect of their game, so again, being an MMA fighter takes more training, skill, and ability to take pain, and they don't whine about "extra protection" lol You are a joke if you think boxers NEED the protection because of their all powerful godly punching ability, seeing as MMA guys train IN BOXING the exact same way, they just train for more...Fuckin, jokin me...You cant argue with "boxing people" their arguments make no sense and they are living in the 80's apparently.

 

[AztecWarrior]

c'mon you named one dude. One fucking dude. ANd I'll spot you him anyday. However, pac is annoying the shit out of me right now cause he's playin games with mayweather just as much as mayweather is clowning around. Is he really a warrior then? If he was he'd just say let's do it, I will knock your ass through the ropes and piss on you while you're snoring in the lap of one of the judges. And these two guys are the top of the boxing game, the very fucking top.

LOL! I want your veiw on the whole barnnet and fedor situation as well? Everyone knows he wanted no part of him. Is barnnet, one of the best hw's there is, not a warrior or ever was?

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Show me currency numbers that they are dead, even in america it's not at it's highest peak here, but does well. When a fighter is earning 60 mil for 1 fight, your logic don't make sense. It's one thing to say something and to actually see prove. I'm a follwer of both and the stars are there. You need to open your eyes alittle. If you are gonna discredit something pull up some facts and not be getting mad. I have nothing against MMA but when you attack someone, expect to be attacked back. Nothing is better. They both are wonderful to watch at there best.

LMAO, his logic makes no sense. You are comparing THE TOP TOP TOP fighters and saying "oh wow look at the money." I bet you if they put old ass Tyson back in the ring against Sylvester Stalone they would pull that much money too? And? These 2 fighters are the ONLY ones that would get that pay day and ONLY when fighting each other. People watch them for their celebrity as much as the fight, if not more. When Boxing commentators have been on ESPN all week saying how bad the sport has gotten, stating its no longer exciting, there are no real draws, and ratings are terrible...come on...

 

[AztecWarrior]

i never compared ali tyson to mma fighters. brush up on your reading comprehension. I said those 4 are the only big names left that people know. did i say the mma names were bigger then them?

I didnt know you didnt live in america. obviously i cant tell you how it is over there. but in america boxing is a dead sport.

and here mma fighters make more then boxers. ON AVERAGE.

I have 3 friends that grew up on the south side of chicago. they all grew up boxing. city wide golden glove champs. one nationally ranked in someway i dont know the details. they will tell you boxing is going nowhere. Idk if you have ever heard of the mcgarry (sp) brothers (irish) but one of them coached Ali at some point i saw the pictures in the gym an at his bar he owns. Even both of them openely say MMA is taking over and they hate it.

think what you want about your side of the pond but over here mma is in and boxing is out.


EDIT: are you saying in your last post that boxing gloves cause more damage then mma gloves?

That's thier opionion. Not everyone feels the way they do and they don't opening speak for everyone. Mcgarry hasn't really done anything in boxing in years. For the fact he isn't on top in the choosen sport he was brought up in should show you that. I've trained at some of the best boxing gyms in America and Mexico with well known boxing trainers. Boxing is still strong with them and the passion is still very much alive.

 

[redsamurai]

LOL! I want your veiw on the whole barnnet and fedor situation as well? Everyone knows he wanted no part of him. Is barnnet, one of the best hw's there is, not a warrior or ever was?

I'm not aware of the situation between the two. Last I heard Barnett wasn't fighting anymore and was going back to pro wrestling. I can't imagine why Fedor would duck him, if that's what you're implying. Fedor has mauled people that beat Barnett badly. I was never too impressed with Barnetts' tools anyway.

 

[AztecWarrior]

really? you'd rather watch a 140 pound phillipino dude fight than a snarling, drooling animal who punched the soul out of people? Sorry, I respect Paq...he's a beast for his size. But to say his fights are even near as entertaining as Tysons is just ridiculous and you're now trying to scramble for reasons why boxing is still relevant. People in my gym stopped their workouts and watched the tv screen when ESPN was showing tysons greatest. That would not happen if Paq was up there.






the punches increase the chance of a knockout by increasing the chance of connecting with "the button". But you know full well that you can knock someone out with a little jab if you hit the spot just right. Actual damage though is greatly decreased with the bigger gloves. Fights would probably not go 12 rounds with the smaller gloves, and that would be fine with me. If somebody hasn't been rocked after 5-6 rounds I'm startin to lose interest. And taht goes for MMA as well.

Boxers are so well condioned and have the best chins in the world, they don't go down as easy as everyone else. They are freaks when it comes to taking some of the most devasting fist impacts in the world. Not everyone is mayweather with his speed and reflexes, you will be hit. That's boxing. The game is to hit and not be hit, but punishment will be dished back regardless, with the kind of boxing skills these warriors have.

 

[twenty47]

Some of my favourite fighters to watch at the moment are Mayweather, Pacquiao, Haye, Khan, Froch, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley despite being schooled, Paul Williams and maybe BHop just for his old school skills.

dont know haye or khan but cotto, margarito, mosley and hopkins are washed up.. Didnt cotto just lose again? mosley wont get another shot and hopkins is a nobody now. hes old as hell and since he lost to calzaghe no one cares anymore. who was that black guy from america that lost a decision to froch. that was straight rigged. i guess you have to beat the champ to be the champ but in a normal bout froch lost.

 

[AztecWarrior]

redsamurai just because pac isn't 265 roided circus show dosen't mean he isn't as dangerous as brock. Size has nothing to do with speed, will, heart, instincts, drive, guts, and skill sets. You can lifts to grew muscles but you can't lift to obtain balls.

 

[twenty47]

found this searching boxing payday..


like everyone is saying. big names make the money. other pros cant make a living.

Pacquiao made $3 million and Marquez $1 million for their epic rematch, but there were five fighters of the 14 on that show who made $3,500 or less.

 

[AztecWarrior]

Some of my favourite fighters to watch at the moment are Mayweather, Pacquiao, Haye, Khan, Froch, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley despite being schooled, Paul Williams and maybe BHop just for his old school skills. As for the up and coming names there are loads but there's no point me coming out with names if you don't even like the sport. This 17 year old kid looks damn good though YouTube - 17 year old Jose Benavedez and Manny Pacquiao sparring.avi.

Yes there is corruption in boxing, some of it is terrible. Yes there is handpicking. But it's not like boxing is basically just one company. I've been on MMA forums where they all claim the greatest is Fedor - however he won't even fight the supposedly big names in UFC. I just don't know how people criticise boxing politics when MMA is basically just one company dominating (and paying sh*t) and anyone outside of that is just internet myth.

btw I'm out for the night!

Paul williams is very good. I actually picked him over Palvik for the win. Citron and Paul are happening this Sat. Can't wait, but paul is to fast, has a higher punch out put, has amazing lenght adavantage, more experienced, has a win over the tornado that will have a mind effect on cintron, who couldn't beat the man. Pual should take this, unless he connect flush on that chin. Paul has the thomas hearns body, the punchers body, he'll need to fight like hearns.

 

[AztecWarrior]

LMAO, you keep talking about the boxers needing protection because of their super awesome punching ability...sadly thats all they have because, well its all they can do and its all they train to do...geeez that's tough. MMA guys TRAIN in boxing as well as many other skills, so how is it that you are giving all the credit to boxers for punching? MMA fighters practice with their hands as much as boxers but they also train every other aspect of their game, so again, being an MMA fighter takes more training, skill, and ability to take pain, and they don't whine about "extra protection" lol You are a joke if you think boxers NEED the protection because of their all powerful godly punching ability, seeing as MMA guys train IN BOXING the exact same way, they just train for more...Fuckin, jokin me...You cant argue with "boxing people" their arguments make no sense and they are living in the 80's apparently.

Are you kiddin' me? LOL! The punching ablitities of people in mma is sad. No footwork, flat footed most of the time, looking down and not at your opponent when throwing punches, loading up, telegraphed shots you know that's coming, very easy to hit, don't know how to set much up in the way of hands. Not even at the same level dude. It takes to long for someone in there 20s to even reach a decent level to boxing standard. Boxer perfect boxing skill cause thats what they do. Like I stated early in this thread, boxers come from other background. Stupid to assume they just know how to box. I've listed names of boxers that were great wrestlers, train some mma, and done kickboxing before boxing. They choose to go with the money.

 

[AztecWarrior]

LMAO, you keep talking about the boxers needing protection because of their super awesome punching ability...sadly thats all they have because, well its all they can do and its all they train to do...geeez that's tough. MMA guys TRAIN in boxing as well as many other skills, so how is it that you are giving all the credit to boxers for punching? MMA fighters practice with their hands as much as boxers but they also train every other aspect of their game, so again, being an MMA fighter takes more training, skill, and ability to take pain, and they don't whine about "extra protection" lol You are a joke if you think boxers NEED the protection because of their all powerful godly punching ability, seeing as MMA guys train IN BOXING the exact same way, they just train for more...Fuckin, jokin me...You cant argue with "boxing people" their arguments make no sense and they are living in the 80's apparently.

It's harder to perfect something then just to be okay in a bunch of things. LOL! that's like saying bo jacksons the best ever because he played 2 sports, so that makes him better then any past great there ever was. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. To perfect something is way harder and having a better talent pool makes it harder to successed in. Why is it so hard for you to understand that?

 

[twenty47]

footwork and stance is not the same in mma as it is in boxing. the way a boxer turns their hips in on a hook or step in on an uppercut cannot happen in mma. you get taken down/slammed on your head. mma leads to a lot more akward punches. moving back ect. thats how the sport is. plain and simple.

 

[AztecWarrior]

LMAO, his logic makes no sense. You are comparing THE TOP TOP TOP fighters and saying "oh wow look at the money." I bet you if they put old ass Tyson back in the ring against Sylvester Stalone they would pull that much money too? And? These 2 fighters are the ONLY ones that would get that pay day and ONLY when fighting each other. People watch them for their celebrity as much as the fight, if not more. When Boxing commentators have been on ESPN all week saying how bad the sport has gotten, stating its no longer exciting, there are no real draws, and ratings are terrible...come on...

Sometimes people were expecting more in a fight, they state it sometimes. Are you sawing every MMA fight is so unforgetable? LOL! Randy couture is about as fun as looking for a needle in a haystack these days.

 

[AztecWarrior]

I'm not aware of the situation between the two. Last I heard Barnett wasn't fighting anymore and was going back to pro wrestling. I can't imagine why Fedor would duck him, if that's what you're implying. Fedor has mauled people that beat Barnett badly. I was never too impressed with Barnetts' tools anyway.

No barnnet was menetioned here. He was scared and he should be, fedor is the best mma fighter there is. He was ducking him, but barnnet has done a lot and fought many in the sport of mma. I don't think he isn't a coward, I wish he would of fought him though. Things take time sometimes to come to pass. He's fighing again, he just won in Dream.

 

[AztecWarrior]

dont know haye or khan but cotto, margarito, mosley and hopkins are washed up.. Didnt cotto just lose again? mosley wont get another shot and hopkins is a nobody now. hes old as hell and since he lost to calzaghe no one cares anymore. who was that black guy from america that lost a decision to froch. that was straight rigged. i guess you have to beat the champ to be the champ but in a normal bout froch lost.

Hopkins??? LOL! He beats the best and continues to win at the highest level. He schooled a prime beast of a puncher Kelly at the height of his career. Fought wales top fighter and hanged with the best MW of our time. Washed up, hell no. Al those guys mention got gas in the tank and have what it takes to be at top again. People loose and comeback. It happens.

 

[AztecWarrior]

footwork and stance is not the same in mma as it is in boxing. the way a boxer turns their hips in on a hook or step in on an uppercut cannot happen in mma. you get taken down/slammed on your head. mma leads to a lot more akward punches. moving back ect. thats how the sport is. plain and simple.

Of course it's modificated, when we see actully the best healthy boxers in mma you'll see. Dana white knows this and thats the reason why he didn't want to make cintron and sherk fight happen. Here was this young talented boxer, who was good enough to shut his mma guys grappling down and display true beautiful striking in the cage. Sherk would of woke up on his back if it would of went down.

 

[redsamurai]

was it Dana that stopped that fight from happening or did the boxer not want to do it? I don't really know who Cintron was or whether he was capable of keeping off his back against Sherk....my guess would be no. It's a stupid fight to begin with, way too different styles. Sherk would have laid on top of the dude for the whole fight and pounded him unless this cintron guy has had some form of MMA training.

But I find it interesting that nobody sees the point that once a boxer learns how to sprawl he's not a boxer anymore....he's an MMA fighter just like Liddell. And how would this boxer do against a guy who knew how to kick? He'd have to learn how to block kicks and throw some of his own.....nows he's not a boxer anymore. I wonder if that was on Dana's mind. If the boxer won he could say he only did so because he trained in MMA before the fight. Either way it was a win.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Boxing fans are almost as sad as baseball and hockey fans Lets see how many people I can piss off in one thread! SCORE!

 

[Daeo]

That dosen't alaways happen like wrestlers don't always win by pin, boxer by ko, kickboxer by kicks, and bjj player by subs. It varies by styles of the figthers. Ko's are happening all the time in boxing but going the distance happens as well. MMA has it too. Let's not get confused.

When I watch a boxing match I'm looking for a KO or TKO. The last few I've paid for didn't end up that way. Seems like most boxers are trying to hold onto belts, not their fans. All I'm saying is that most people look for excitement in fights. Boxing doesn't provide me with that anymore. Sure MMA has decisions too. But you only have to endure 5 rounds at the most to get to the same end. And most times there's alot more happening within that period...

 

[twenty47]

People loose and comeback. It happens.

not really. especially when the best destroy them. cotto is done..

 

[jd_uk]

really? you'd rather watch a 140 pound phillipino dude fight than a snarling, drooling animal who punched the soul out of people? Sorry, I respect Paq...he's a beast for his size. But to say his fights are even near as entertaining as Tysons is just ridiculous and you're now trying to scramble for reasons why boxing is still relevant. People in my gym stopped their workouts and watched the tv screen when ESPN was showing tysons greatest. That would not happen if Paq was up there.

Yep, I've watched Tyson's fights recently and I'd still rather watch Pacquiao. As powerful, fast and generally awesome as Tyson was to watch I prefer the relentless speed and action that you get with Pacquiao. His combinations are unbelievable. The size of the fighter doesn't matter to me.

the punches increase the chance of a knockout by increasing the chance of connecting with "the button". But you know full well that you can knock someone out with a little jab if you hit the spot just right. Actual damage though is greatly decreased with the bigger gloves. Fights would probably not go 12 rounds with the smaller gloves, and that would be fine with me. If somebody hasn't been rocked after 5-6 rounds I'm startin to lose interest. And taht goes for MMA as well.

You maybe have a point to say that the smaller gloves increase likelihood of a knockout. I'm not 100% sure, but maybe. That said, the larger gloves do make boxing a more dangerous sport so to slate it for not being 'tough enough' or whatever is just stupid. Generally though, a good punch will cause a knockout no matter what happens as it is the amount the brain shakes inside the skull which causes the KO. I actually don't enjoy seeing huge knockouts that much and don't get bored if it goes 12 rounds provided it is a good fight. I don't want to see anyone killed, I want to see every fighter get up and be fine. Some of the best fights in history have been 12, or even 15 round fights. It is the skill which is so intriguing. Maybe casual 'fight' fans just want to see blood but I don't think that is what boxing is about so maybe those people prefer MMA. Even so, the whole point of this thread still stands - to say boxing is dead is ridiculous when there is so much more money and the names in boxing have been and still are so much bigger than any in MMA.

 

[jd_uk]

I'll have to look these dudes up, any of em HW's?

David Haye is. YouTube - David Haye Knockouts

He has been taunting the Klitchsko's all year and Kltchsko recently responded: YouTube - Wladimir Klitschko calling out David Haye

 

[twenty47]

you arent in america.. there are not more names in boxing. period. and besides the big names there arent more money. the frequency of fighting in MMA is also un matched. look how many times a year there are UFC's.. thats just one organization. strikeforce, dream, wec, ufc, and pride used to be huge. all of them have fights all year round.

now for boxing i can count how many big fights happened in the last couple years using my fingers..

 

[jd_uk]

LMAO, you keep talking about the boxers needing protection because of their super awesome punching ability...sadly thats all they have because, well its all they can do and its all they train to do...geeez that's tough. MMA guys TRAIN in boxing as well as many other skills, so how is it that you are giving all the credit to boxers for punching? MMA fighters practice with their hands as much as boxers but they also train every other aspect of their game, so again, being an MMA fighter takes more training, skill, and ability to take pain, and they don't whine about "extra protection" lol You are a joke if you think boxers NEED the protection because of their all powerful godly punching ability, seeing as MMA guys train IN BOXING the exact same way, they just train for more...Fuckin, jokin me...You cant argue with "boxing people" their arguments make no sense and they are living in the 80's apparently.

Again this doesn't make sense. The training to get to the top is equally hard. There is only so much time you can spend and the top boxers are spending all day in the gym during camp. They just train differently....MMA fighters train a variety of skills but they dont train any more or any harder. They do less cardio but spend more time on learning various techniques. Boxers have to obviously be MUCH better at the what they do. The boxing aspect of a boxing fight is way more honed than in MMA, because it has to be. Freddie Roach says that the best boxer in MMA that he saw was BJ Penn and I didn't think he was that great to be honest.

 

[twenty47]

didnt vitor belfort box proffesionally? i know he had one fight. first round KO