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Why gains stop toward end of cycle?
- Thread starter pip88
- Start date
I forgot the answer and its bugging the hell out of me. I know its not the receptor myth for sure, its like its on the tip of my tongue.
I'd like to know this as well
IMO, its the diet. I have done 20-24 week cycles and gains do slow down but they never stopped as long as i increase calories. Start at 4000-4500 calories, once your weight stalls, add 500 calories, youll keep gaining, once your weight stalls again, add another 500 calories. eventually your gonna stop at around 6000-7000 calories (unless you eat some fatty foods too). so basically, i stopped gaining when i stopped increasing the calories, steroids increase the rate in which your body uses nutrients(carbs, protein, fats), therefore less nutrients are wasted and your metabloism is increased.
KenBraggofCarroltonGA
New member
yeah i cycle for 42 weeks then i do a 2 week bridge mixed with mild pct. just kidding. lol
In general, gains slow down after 6 weeks or so and suppression increases, beginning in "shut down." 6 weeks was standard before the middle 90's. It's also way I believe 4 week cycles are best for solid gains that can be maintained naturally and/or if you want to maintain a properly functioning HPTA. Then again, with the PCT options today, (HCGenerate, UNLEASHED, BRIDGE, etc) I believe you can do 6-8 week cycles and recover completely.
pip88
Banned
Why would you end a cycle when test e is just starting to kick in?
wolfman87
New member
What do you mean? Do you think the test you took for the first month doesn't do anything?
many Guys actually Finish Hard with Orals or Tren etc for this purpose
so basically they use X amount of gear where it works for X amount of Weeks with Diet
then use More gear for X amount of added weeks with even more food to get bigger harder etc
Nelson also has a more nuanced point about inhibition relative to cycle length
it just depends on if you want to be a big boy or not
pip88
Banned
Of course it does but not like it does later in the cycle. Thats why we have kickstarts at the beginning of the cycle. I just dont understand why you would quit when the ball is just starting to role.
Ur half right. The reason u keep gaining is myostatin peaks around 8 weeks. Then after a few weeks starts to decrease. By week 20 ur back to base levels so that's why you TTY gaining again during the end of your cycle.
If anybody cares to have more Info google it.
That's why you blast and cruise them blast again. Hit it 10 weeks cruise 6 weeks hit it again
I think the most you'll get on google is the abstract, which doesn't explain that levels return to baseline by week 20.
ScienceDirect - Molecular and Cellular Endocrinology : Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration
You have to pay to get the full study:
Yes theres no such thing as solidifying gains just shut down... if your weights are increasing every week and they suddenly stop then so should your cycle...
zack!!!
New member
hayez how about an example of what this sort of cycle would look like for you
what about taking a product like unleashed at around the 8 week mark would this help keep the gain's going past the 10 week mark
Jon79
New member
bc most cycles ran for that long are pointless.... most ppl will give your wrong information here... read some of the ebooks on some cycles... lots of info in there on how to do it correctly and get the most out of our cycle....
if you follow the copy paste chain gang u get copy paste results
if you follow the copy paste chain gang u get copy paste results
Jon79
New member
here is an example of a cycle wulfgar helped me with. these sort of cycles produce ultimate results without wasting ur time and gear...
just an opinion but it works
this works well if you have done many cycles and you want your body to repond better
> Here is an example that you will thank me for later
>
> Days 1-23 Test E 150mg ED
> Days 1,2 Drol 200mg ed
> Days 3,4 Drol 150 mg ed
> Days 5-8 Drol 100 mg ed
> Days 9-24 Drol 50 mg ed
> Days 25,26 Drol 100 mg ed
> Days 27,28 Drol 150 mg ed
> Days 29,30 Drol 200 mg ED
i know it goes against everyting u hear but it works
just an opinion but it works
this works well if you have done many cycles and you want your body to repond better
> Here is an example that you will thank me for later
>
> Days 1-23 Test E 150mg ED
> Days 1,2 Drol 200mg ed
> Days 3,4 Drol 150 mg ed
> Days 5-8 Drol 100 mg ed
> Days 9-24 Drol 50 mg ed
> Days 25,26 Drol 100 mg ed
> Days 27,28 Drol 150 mg ed
> Days 29,30 Drol 200 mg ED
i know it goes against everyting u hear but it works
lookinfit75
New member
I am curious, what kind of gains did you get from doing this cycle and how much did you keep afterwards? What type of PCT did you use? What exactly do you mean by "many cycles"? In other words what is considered "many". Either way that is a pretty hefty cycle at well over a gram of test alone per week even though it's only for 3 weeks.
Sure, it works. It's a LOT. You can put dosages along with a mixture of drugs into a hat, mix them up and pull it out and it'll work.
pip88
Banned
or up the test from 500mg to 1000mg?
Ezekiel
New member
Curious as to why you would pin test e everyday?
Very intesting subject to be sure..
I am currantly doing a test only cycle, and i am on week 8. I am thinking at wk. 10 of droping to 150 a wk. for 6 wks. then back up to 500 a wk. + 500 wk of omni's....
I'll let you know how it all turns out...
Jon79
New member
yea sure but this get u results... especially if you have many cycles under your belt and your rceptors are not as responsive if the once were
if you work pct, hcg intothis short cyle the results will be impressive.......
i have a bit more experience ant put my time and research into this to just but shit into a hat and inject them
chemica muscle enhancement it a great book and im sure anlyone can agree that if u keep doing the same thing over and over that u will never achieve the same results
Jon79
New member
yes but later in training and after u have done many cycles these short high dosage cycles seem to get your body to respoind like it did on your first two cycles...
thats all im sayin
Jon79
New member
it keeps your blood levels at optimum levels without risking your body to the sides ofr high dosages
ill get wulfgar to log in to better explain he is the one who taught me all this...
Jon79
New member
u keep most of ur gains... by many cycles i mean 4 +
im workin on a pct right now to back it up
Fudge Tunnel
Banned
Last edited by a moderator:
Jon79
New member
Another shameless plug.
short cycles with hcg and adex work just the same.. ur gonna shut the fuck down alot harder on these long ass cycles and need more shit to recover anyway...
now im not saying u cant brige but brige with hcg and then hit another compour hard for another 4 weeks...
Myostatin Update : Iron Man Magazine | www.ironmanmagazine.com
thats the easy explantion..i have the actual pdf of the report and details but i dont think ill be able to post it because of ef rules..i can email to anybody if they want to read it
thats the easy explantion..i have the actual pdf of the report and details but i dont think ill be able to post it because of ef rules..i can email to anybody if they want to read it
Jon79
New member
> Here is an example that you will thank me for later
>
> Days 1-23 test e 150mg ED
> Days 1,2 Drol 200mg ed
> Days 3,4 Drol 150 mg ed
> Days 5-8 Drol 100 mg ed
> Days 9-24 Drol 50 mg ed
> Days 25,26 Drol 100 mg ed
> Days 27,28 Drol 150 mg ed
> Days 29,30 Drol 200 mg ED
for pct
so 3 days after ur last test shot start 2,500 mcg of hc5 every 5th day. break this dose up in 5 500mcg dosages in that 1 day
only do this hcg regimine days 1,6,11,and 21 then ur done
also add in adex and clomid
2days on 1 day off
take .5mg of adex am and .5mg pm 2days on 1 day off
also do this with clomid 2day on 1 day off. 50 mg am 50mg pm
start this with the hcg and run the adex and clomid for 28 days in that manner
Another shameless plug.
Listen bro. If you don't like the products, don;t use them. But of course, you never have used them, right? So you really don;t know what you're talking about. You're just being a dick.
I'm trying to offer advice and that includes a supplement strategy. I don;t recommend garbage.
Believe me, if any of this stuff was crap, we'd hear about it soon enough. Listen more and post less.
Jon79
New member
all opinions should be respected if u agree or disagree.. thats the biggest thing about gettin huge is what works for 1 guy may not for the other guy. i think if we can take in all bits and pices of everyting everyone contributes and use what works for us then we have done our jobs here...
thats the great thing about bodybuilding its not selfish its about helping everyone becon their best
thats the great thing about bodybuilding its not selfish its about helping everyone becon their best
Ezekiel
New member
Very true!!
Hey, if it's working for you, then that's awsome!
If we can learn from others ppl's experiences then all the better!
big difference between 500 and 1000. youd see the same change with 650 or 700 test rather than having to go to a gram. with a gram comes alot of sides that arent as easy to control. but to each his own.
lol, bro...I already posted the PDF! Read my post again.
pip88
Banned
So you have been on test c for 6 straight months and have been adding cycles on top of that?
ive been on for around 2 years now i think...but i was always going from 200 cruise to 1000 or 1200...now ive just kepty it at 400 for last 6 months and things have gone well...between cycles i may get a bit softer but the strength is always there for the most part...last 6 weeks i been out with a torn pec and im still reetaining strength
zack!!!
New member
do u bother with a ptc during your cruise stage ?
This i wanna know too cuz i bridge with am dbol but do pct along with it...
Hai Gais
Jon is 100% on point here.
Listen up. Ill try to keep this as simple as possible. I’ve been preaching (and utilizing) shorter cycles for years. My philosophy has always been: Get in, Hit it HARD, and get out fast. The reasons for this actually make quite a bit of sense.
As we all know our bodies strive endlessly for homeostasis through a delicate balance of anabolic and catabolic hormones.
Let’s address the anabolic hormones for starters:
1. Testosterone and its derivatives: Obviously a major androgenic/anabolic hormone responsible for the development of male characteristics. A primary of which happens to be muscle
2. Growth Hormone and its derivatives (Igf-1, interleukins, etc): Very potent non-sex related (non- androgenic)) but very anabolic substances our bodies create.
3. Insulin: The most anabolic substance in the body (unfortunately it is anabolic to fat as well as muscle cells)
4. There are obliviously many more exotic anabolic substances like prostaglandin growth factors, Mechano growth factors etc... But let’s keep this basic
Stands to reason increasing anyone of these anabolic substances to supraphysiological levels will result in the potential to bring muscular development to supraphysiological levels as well as long as there are sufficient nutrients available and adequate stimulus is given to induce a response. There is NEVER an excuse for being a PUSSY when it comes to eating for training for added muscle growth.
On the other end of the spectrum stand the enemy of bodybuilders: Catabolic substances
1: Estrogen: The primary female sex-hormone. In men this results in many unwanted side effects im sure you guys know all about (female pattern fat deposits, titties, singing falsetto, wearing a dress, etc). As men we convert approximately 1% of all testosterone into different forms of estrogen (estrodiol, progesterone, etc...) through a process called aromatization.
2. Cortisol: This little bastard is a destroyer of worlds. Widely known as the "stress" hormone it acts primarily as a clean up for the body getting rid of damaged/necrotic tissue as well as destroying healthy tissue if levels are too high. So it actually has a benefit but u doesn’t want huge amounts of it or you are a Cushing’s disease victim which is no bueno.
3: SHBG and somaostatin: Both of these guys can be thought of as catabolic too since they bind free or active testosterone and excess Growth Hormone respectively.
4: there are more catabolic hormones but they are minor and are beyond the scope of this article.
With that in mind let’s look at what happens when any stimulus is given to the body. We train like Godzilla rampaging a small Japanese village, fill ourselves up with major anabolic/androgenic hormones and other anabolism producing chemicals, eat any protein source that doesn’t eat us first, and sleep 20 hrs a day. We have obviously major tipped the anabolic/catabolic balance heavily in the favor of anabolism! Now the body won’t disappoint, it gains muscle at a hyper rate. But all of a sudden our survival mechanism for homeostasis activates to defend the body from this inhuman onslaught.
The body is no fool; it starts by shutting down all mechanisms that promote anabolism naturally. The HPTA turns to mush (resulting is shrunken raisin syndrome); somatostatin is released to cut out natty GH production first. But we keep exogenously pounding monster amounts of these things into our system. Well the body doesn’t want to be outdone so as a big FUCK YOU it major increases the rate of estrogen aromatization to combat the excessive testosterone, and cortisol levels go through the roof since all these stimuli are looked upon as major negative stressors. This whole negative feedback loop destroys gains and makes us giant pussies, especially when we stop our cycles and estrogen and cortisol run unchecked and turn all of our hard earned muscle( plus some you had before) into nice feminine fat. Not to mention you wont get a normal hard on for months and u have breast tissue developing as long as estrogen remains your dominant hormone.
Think of it like reaching terminal velocity while skydiving. All terminal velocity means is that the friction of the air equals out your body mass/weight meaning you cannot accelerate anymore. Your falling body is the anabolic factors whereas the air friction is the negative catabolic feedback loop.
The trick is to accelerate like a motherfucker, and constantly be changing body alignment and protocols to keep this acceleration going before pulling the parachute to land (nuts intact).
Knowing all this I NEVER run anything longer than 6 weeks, I rotate all my protocols and drugs weekly if not daily, exit protocols in a highly anabolic (non-androgenic) environment, protect my HPTA and I eat right and train like a machine. I carry 270 lbs on a 6'1 frame with 0 health problems and I actually run a helluva lot less gear than 99.9% of guys I know that are 50lbs less than me.
Again, I encourage everyone to THINK before they leap and do their due diligence in educating themselves.
Any questions for me should be directed to the Dutch Bag thread in the weightlifting forum because I don’t check this room much. Jon just told me I needed to chime in here.
Jon is 100% on point here.
Listen up. Ill try to keep this as simple as possible. I’ve been preaching (and utilizing) shorter cycles for years. My philosophy has always been: Get in, Hit it HARD, and get out fast. The reasons for this actually make quite a bit of sense.
As we all know our bodies strive endlessly for homeostasis through a delicate balance of anabolic and catabolic hormones.
Let’s address the anabolic hormones for starters:
1. Testosterone and its derivatives: Obviously a major androgenic/anabolic hormone responsible for the development of male characteristics. A primary of which happens to be muscle
2. Growth Hormone and its derivatives (Igf-1, interleukins, etc): Very potent non-sex related (non- androgenic)) but very anabolic substances our bodies create.
3. Insulin: The most anabolic substance in the body (unfortunately it is anabolic to fat as well as muscle cells)
4. There are obliviously many more exotic anabolic substances like prostaglandin growth factors, Mechano growth factors etc... But let’s keep this basic
Stands to reason increasing anyone of these anabolic substances to supraphysiological levels will result in the potential to bring muscular development to supraphysiological levels as well as long as there are sufficient nutrients available and adequate stimulus is given to induce a response. There is NEVER an excuse for being a PUSSY when it comes to eating for training for added muscle growth.
On the other end of the spectrum stand the enemy of bodybuilders: Catabolic substances
1: Estrogen: The primary female sex-hormone. In men this results in many unwanted side effects im sure you guys know all about (female pattern fat deposits, titties, singing falsetto, wearing a dress, etc). As men we convert approximately 1% of all testosterone into different forms of estrogen (estrodiol, progesterone, etc...) through a process called aromatization.
2. Cortisol: This little bastard is a destroyer of worlds. Widely known as the "stress" hormone it acts primarily as a clean up for the body getting rid of damaged/necrotic tissue as well as destroying healthy tissue if levels are too high. So it actually has a benefit but u doesn’t want huge amounts of it or you are a Cushing’s disease victim which is no bueno.
3: SHBG and somaostatin: Both of these guys can be thought of as catabolic too since they bind free or active testosterone and excess Growth Hormone respectively.
4: there are more catabolic hormones but they are minor and are beyond the scope of this article.
With that in mind let’s look at what happens when any stimulus is given to the body. We train like Godzilla rampaging a small Japanese village, fill ourselves up with major anabolic/androgenic hormones and other anabolism producing chemicals, eat any protein source that doesn’t eat us first, and sleep 20 hrs a day. We have obviously major tipped the anabolic/catabolic balance heavily in the favor of anabolism! Now the body won’t disappoint, it gains muscle at a hyper rate. But all of a sudden our survival mechanism for homeostasis activates to defend the body from this inhuman onslaught.
The body is no fool; it starts by shutting down all mechanisms that promote anabolism naturally. The HPTA turns to mush (resulting is shrunken raisin syndrome); somatostatin is released to cut out natty GH production first. But we keep exogenously pounding monster amounts of these things into our system. Well the body doesn’t want to be outdone so as a big FUCK YOU it major increases the rate of estrogen aromatization to combat the excessive testosterone, and cortisol levels go through the roof since all these stimuli are looked upon as major negative stressors. This whole negative feedback loop destroys gains and makes us giant pussies, especially when we stop our cycles and estrogen and cortisol run unchecked and turn all of our hard earned muscle( plus some you had before) into nice feminine fat. Not to mention you wont get a normal hard on for months and u have breast tissue developing as long as estrogen remains your dominant hormone.
Think of it like reaching terminal velocity while skydiving. All terminal velocity means is that the friction of the air equals out your body mass/weight meaning you cannot accelerate anymore. Your falling body is the anabolic factors whereas the air friction is the negative catabolic feedback loop.
The trick is to accelerate like a motherfucker, and constantly be changing body alignment and protocols to keep this acceleration going before pulling the parachute to land (nuts intact).
Knowing all this I NEVER run anything longer than 6 weeks, I rotate all my protocols and drugs weekly if not daily, exit protocols in a highly anabolic (non-androgenic) environment, protect my HPTA and I eat right and train like a machine. I carry 270 lbs on a 6'1 frame with 0 health problems and I actually run a helluva lot less gear than 99.9% of guys I know that are 50lbs less than me.
Again, I encourage everyone to THINK before they leap and do their due diligence in educating themselves.
Any questions for me should be directed to the Dutch Bag thread in the weightlifting forum because I don’t check this room much. Jon just told me I needed to chime in here.
zack!!!
New member
how do you find that? an how long do you bridge for between cycles
Kristofer68ss
New member
I have heard to run winny at the end of the cycle to keep gains going, free up test. Maybe another MOA?
Any truth to this?
Any truth to this?
Those myostatin supps were the biggest scam the industry's seen in a long time.
Using suppressive compounds to bridge doesn't make sense. Use BRIDGE.
What Hayez is doing makes more sense that using grams of gear for 12 weeks, then coming off for a month and repeating the process. You might as well stay on.
10 mgs dbol first thing in the morning 2-3 months combined with pct im on the last month and havent lost a pound i even took 3 weeks off due to injury went back to the gym yesterday and was still the same weight just lost a lil strenght... the aniticatabolic effects of dbol are incredible
Ezekiel
New member
10 mgs dbol first thing in the morning 2-3 months combined with pct im on the last month and havent lost a pound i even took 3 weeks off due to injury went back to the gym yesterday and was still the same weight just lost a lil strenght... the aniticatabolic effects of dbol are incredible
W/ all due respect your "bridge" is counter productive.
Dbol, even @ 10 mgs per day can and will shut you down or at the very least mess w/ your natty levels.
You're either on or you're off..
BAck in the day, all anyone took was 5-10 mgs of Dbol a day and they got huge!
Also, i would not advise anyone to take and kind of pill like dbol for 2-3 months straight.... Very hard on your liver.
10 mgs dbol first thing in the morning 2-3 months combined with pct im on the last month and havent lost a pound i even took 3 weeks off due to injury went back to the gym yesterday and was still the same weight just lost a lil strenght... the aniticatabolic effects of dbol are incredible
You've been doing PCT for 2-3 months as well??? If so, you've never really come off bro. Once you stop, your test production is going to be in double digits.
Jon79
New member
i love ur cereal its quite delicious
its situations like this where i think fertility can be compromised in a good number of men. obviously we all know people who have gotten women pregnant on cycle and in my case, after alot of cycles (but with adequate recovery time between). i just feel that the dbol bridge is a terrible plan. just cruise on 200mg a week then. suppression is the exact same in this case.
I just found this works for me i was tired of gaining 20 lbs every cycle and losing it all again within weeks if it werent for my injury i wouldnt even be cycling anymore since i had kept my gains and was happy where i was at some people choose to cruise i choose to bridge 
instant.muscle
New member
For a long time I've been a fan of short cycles but I've kept my mouth shut cuz honestly I didn't wanna have to deal with people tellin me I don't know what I'm talking about but stick to what works for u. I am a moderate juicer I do one cycle every 2-3 years at veryyyy minimal doses to get most benefits n the least sides. My gains stop around week 7 no matter what the compound so it I run my cycles of whatever compound at 1.5 cc a week which comes out to about 6.77 ccs a week perfect for me, but do not listen to anyoneeee, listen to ur body! If u can't make gains off a simpe test low dose deca dbol cycle ur taking way too much n not enuf time off, hope this helps, every cycle I have run has looked like 375 test and about 250 deca for 7 weeks with about a year break n my resuslts r phenominal n keepable
instant.muscle
New member
I meant 6.77 weeks worth not 6.77 ccs a week lol
pip88
Banned
Can i cruise with 150mg-200mg test e ew or no?
pip88
Banned
ok so if i just cruise and blast in 8 weeks i should still get gains right i mean i can run a partial pct during the cruise time if that helps.I just want to make sure myostan or however you spell in is low at this point and i can blast. Hopefully since im on such a low dose it will go down.
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