Some Cycle Input TestE & Deca!

[deezal]

Hey guys! Love the site

I am a first time cycle poster, long time lurker! Looking for some advice on an upcoming cycle here, would appreciate all the feedback i can get.

Stats:

Age: 26
Height: 6'
Weight: 190lbs 10-12% looking my best.
Backround: Training since I was 18 and been consistent year to year.

Diet: 40/30/30 style with most of my carbs peri\post workout the rest just protein\fat meals I find this to be the most efficient way to add muscle with minimal fat gain results are slow but fair and keeps me sane. Calories are kept around 3500 for maintenance. Bulking for me is not so sane and takes lots calories to add any noticeable mass to my frame as I work a very physical job. Without drugs I need to eat at least 4500-5000to put on roughly 1 pound\week. I'm currently bulking and over the past month added about 5lbs. but would like to see more going into the New Year!!

History: My very first cycle was 3 years ago TestE @ 400\wk with great results went from 175 too about 200 proper PCT kept about 15-20lbs bf was 15-16% . 1 Monsterdrol cycle last year with average gains. Currently running Activate Extreme (natural test booster which I highly recommend, will run again during PCT) Today I still look better then I did when I finished that cycle 3 years ago much lower bf% now with better Symmetry so I must be doing somthing right.

Currently I'm 2 weeks post-op from arthroscopic knee surgery where they removed a small tear in my meniscus. I have been dealing with this for 2 years working my way to a 285 squat which I consider to be my happy medium. I couldn't play any high impact sports 1 hour of hockey would do me in for a week of pain and swelling. Surgery was my only choice. Hopefully with this cycle I will set new PR's again (I will be doing a simple squat progression for the entire cycle starting with bar weight)

Goals: 205 10-12% With all my weak points blasted! Squat/ 350 Deadlift/385

Lets get to the cycle.

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-8 Deca 300mg/w
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)

Optional Ancilliaries
W 3-10 HCG 250iu E4D
or
One 1000iu shot per week for last 3 weeks of cycle (While taking 1000iu shots .5mg/ED Arimidex to keep estrogen in control. Discontinue 4 days after last hCG shot.)

Post Cycle Therapy starts week 13
W 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d
W 16-20 Activate Xtreme Natural Test Booster.


I know there will be some debate on whether or not to use the HCG for 10-12 weeks because of the altering of the natural operation of HPTA and have read for shorter cycles ie. 6-8 weeks this would be a much better route. Would using the HCG at the end of the cycle be more beneficial in this case? Any help here would be much appreciated!

Here is a current pic of me @ 190

 

[deezal]

After doing some thinking I decided to keep it basic and save the deca for a later cycle.

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
Mabey W 8-15 Proviron 50mg/D ???
PCT
W 12 Nolva 20mg 2x/D
W 13-15 Nolva 20mg/D
W 16-20 Activate Xtreme Test Booster

Would HCG be realistic to use being that I'm only using test for the entire cycle? What about the Proviron I heard it really cranks up the libido and really helps at the end of the cycle, anybody do a simliar cycle?

Thanks!

 

[HAYEZ]

1st was right on
use hcg thru cycle

 

[sweed]

Ya, after a lay off of a few years, i think jsut a test cycle will do you just fine. stop proviron the day before pct. Check out primordial performance's TRS pct stack. you can do hcg during cycle starting mid cycle ( week 3-4) or start during pct.
I don;t know about putting out 15 lbs and dropping 5% bf. Maybe just add on the lbs now, then choose a cutter to get down to lower bf in the spring.

 

[Fudge Tunnel]

After doing some thinking I decided to keep it basic and save the deca for a later cycle.

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
Mabey W 8-15 Proviron 50mg/D ???
PCT
W 12 Nolva 20mg 2x/D
W 13-15 Nolva 20mg/D
W 16-20 Activate Xtreme Test Booster

Would HCG be realistic to use being that I'm only using test for the entire cycle? What about the Proviron I heard it really cranks up the libido and really helps at the end of the cycle, anybody do a simliar cycle?

Thanks!

Here is what I would change:

-Just run the test at 750mg a week. You're getting too complicated with the dosing schedule.
-I would prefer you use aromasin as it's a suicidal A/I which will not cause a rebound effect
like armidex may.
-Save the proviron for PCT, it does not shut down your recovery.
-Use aromasin instead of the nolva. Nolva is useless.
-Use the hcg from week one and use the last of it the day after your last injection.
-Use clomid for PCT

 

[deezal]

Ya, after a lay off of a few years, i think jsut a test cycle will do you just fine. stop proviron the day before PCT. Check out primordial performance's TRS PCT stack. you can do hcg during cycle starting mid cycle ( week 3-4) or start during PCT.

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
W 3-10 HCG 250iu E4D
W 8-12 Proviron 50mg/D
PCT
W 12 nolva 20mg 2x/D
W 13-15 nolva 20mg/D
W 16-20 Activate Xtreme Test Booster

I was under the impression that the proviron wasn't highly suppressive but I guess everyone is seeing mixed results here, including a few lab results of some people saying that it is indeed surpressive. Better safe then sorry Ill take your advice!

I don;t know about putting out 15 lbs and dropping 5% bf. Maybe just add on the lbs now, then choose a cutter to get down to lower bf in the spring.

I wont be dropping 5% im still around 10-12 now

 

[Fudge Tunnel]

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
W 3-10 HCG 250iu E4D
W 8-12 Proviron 50mg/D
PCT
W 12 nolva 20mg 2x/D
W 13-15 nolva 20mg/D
W 16-20 Activate Xtreme Test Booster

I was under the impression that the proviron wasn't highly suppressive but I guess everyone is seeing mixed results here, including a few lab results of some people saying that it is indeed surpressive. Better safe then sorry Ill take your advice!

Proviron is NOT suppressive.

When a reasonable dose of this is given (100-150mgs/day), it had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH. FSH and LH are two hormones which send a signal to your testes to produce testosterone. Good news for people considering it for PCT is that it can even raise your LH ! Thus, by not suppressing those hormones and maybe even raising some, your normal testosterone levels will remain intact.

 

[HAYEZ]

Proviron is NOT suppressive.

When a reasonable dose of this is given (100-150mgs/day), it had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH. FSH and LH are two hormones which send a signal to your testes to produce testosterone. Good news for people considering it for PCT is that it can even raise your LH ! Thus, by not suppressing those hormones and maybe even raising some, your normal testosterone levels will remain intact.

who told you provirion is not suppressive? you were told wrong

 

[Fudge Tunnel]

who told you provirion is not suppressive? you were told wrong

It's a fact, no one told me. Here is one of he studies done.

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.
Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

 

[HAYEZ]

It's a fact, no one told me. Here is one of he studies done.

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.
Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

if you keep reading you will also see the studies on it showing there was evidence of suppression in adults with higher ranged test..the ones with lower test wasnt as effected as much...

there studies showing low dose of 25mg per day didnt have as much effect but higher dosed did..cant just pick 1 study you like read them all

 

[Ezekiel]

if you keep reading you will also see the studies on it showing there was evidence of suppression in adults with higher ranged test..the ones with lower test wasnt as effected as much...

there studies showing low dose of 25mg per day didnt have as much effect but higher dosed did..cant just pick 1 study you like read them all

Oh no you di'int... lol

Hayez. what your opinion on using Nolv for PCT after using Deca.. I have heard that this is a no no... Any truth to that?


Cheers,

 

[HAYEZ]

Oh no you di'int... lol

Hayez. what your opinion on using Nolv for PCT after using Deca.. I have heard that this is a no no... Any truth to that?


Cheers,

they are not good to run together can cause pro induced gyno

after the deca clears your system it is ok to use

when i owuld use tren i would drop it week early, when id use deca drop it 3 weeks before pct then use nolva

 

[Ezekiel]

they are not good to run together can cause pro induced gyno

after the deca clears your system it is ok to use

when i owuld use tren i would drop it week early, when id use deca drop it 3 weeks before pct then use nolva

Rgr... thank you sir!