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Stock Market Hits 1997 Level

javaguru

Banned
Fug me....
Major stock market indexes fall to 1997 levels

NEW YORK – Wall Street has turned the clock back to 1997. Investors unable to extinguish their worries about a recession that has no end in sight dumped stocks again Monday. The Dow Jones industrial average tumbled 251 points to its lowest close since May 7, 1997, while the Standard & Poor's 500 index logged its lowest finish since April 11, 1997. It's as if the decade's dot-com surge, collapse and subsequent recovery never occurred.

The Dow is just over 100 points from 7,000. Both indexes have lost about half their value since hitting record highs in October 2007.

"People left and right are throwing in the towel," said Keith Springer, president of Capital Financial Advisory Services.

Investors pounded most financial stocks even as government agencies led by the Treasury Department said they would launch a revamped bank rescue program this week. The plan includes the option of increasing government ownership in financial institutions without having to pour more taxpayer money into them.

Although the government has said it doesn't want to nationalize banks, many investors are clearly still concerned that this could be a possibility as banks continue to suffer severe losses because of the recession. They're also worried that banks' losses will keep escalating as the recession sends more borrowers into default.

"The biggest thing I see here is the incredible pessimism," Springer said. "The government is doing a lousy job of alleviating fears."

The Treasury and other agencies issued a statement after The Wall Street Journal reported Citigroup is in talks for the government to boost its stake in the bank to as much as 40 percent. Analysts said the market, which initially rose on the statement, wanted more details of the government's plans.

"It's only a very partial picture of what we may get," said Quincy Krosby, chief investment strategist at The Hartford. "This proverbial lack of clarity is damaging market psychology."

Meanwhile, technology stocks fell after The Journal reported that Yahoo Inc.'s new chief executive plans to reorganize the company. But the selling came across the market as pessimism about the recession and its toll on companies deepened.

"There's no where to hide anymore," said Jim Herrick, director of equity trading at Baird & Co.

The market's decline extends massive losses from last week when the major stock indexes tumbled more than 6 percent. While falling to their 1997 levels, the major indexes plunged through the lows they reached in late November, at the height of the credit crisis.

"There's no main driver of the down day," said Ryan Detrick, senior technical strategist at Schaeffer's Investment Research. "There's just so much skepticism in the overall market and (the question is) is the government doing proper things to get us out of this problem. Obviously the stock market is voting no."

The Dow dropped 250.89, or 3.41 percent, to 7,114.78. It last closed this low on May 7, 1997 when it finished at 7,085.65. The Dow hasn't traded below the 7,000 mark since October 1997. The index is down 14 percent over the past 10 sessions.

The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 26.72, or 3.47 percent, to 743.33. It was the lowest close since April 11, 1997, when it ended at 737.65.

When the indexes were last at these levels, they were in their ascendancy, climbing amid the dot-com boom. But 1997 was also the year that saw stock prices later plunge amid a growing financial crisis in Asia. Far away from Wall Street, it was the year that the U.S. first heard the name Monica Lewinsky, whose relationship with President Bill Clinton led to his impeachment and trial. And it was the year that the world was stunned by the death of Britain's Princess Diana, on Aug. 31.

On Monday, the S&P 500 did close above its Nov. 21 trading low of 741.02. But the 14-month recession has decimated the major indexes: The Dow is down 49.8 percent from its record highs of October 2007, while the S&P 500 index is down 52.5 percent.

Detrick warned that a move below the S&P's Nov. 21 low could set off "violent selling" as even more confidence drains from the market.

The technology-laden Nasdaq composite index dropped 53.51, or 3.71 percent, to 1,387.72.

Investors looking for a bottom also dumped smaller stocks. The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 16.38 or 3.99 percent, to 394.58.

Declining issues outnumbered advancers by more than 6 to 1 on the New York Stock Exchange, where consolidated volume came to 6.35 billion shares compared with heavy volume of 8.12 billion shares on Friday.

Morgan Smith, investment counselor for Burns Advisory Group, said investors are now pushing out their expectations for a recovery in the industry until after this year.

"Everyone is trying to grasp at some type of bottom," Smith said. "The market is just trying to figure out if it has priced in a worst-case scenario."

Among tech stocks, Hewlett-Packard Co. fell $1.96, or 6.3 percent, to $29.28, and Intel Corp. dove 70 cents, or 5.5 percent, to $12.08.

Other big losers included General Electric Co., which dropped to a 14-year low of $8.80, but ended down 53 cents, or 5.7 percent, at $8.85. Aluminum producer Alcoa Inc. tumbled 48 cents, or 7.6 percent, to $5.81.

Some financial stocks managed to gain, including Citigroup, which rose 19 cents, or 9.7 percent, to $2.14, and Bank of America Corp., which gained 12 cents, or 3.2 percent, to $3.91.

Bond prices were mixed. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note, which moves opposite its price, fell to 2.76 percent from 2.79 percent late Friday. The yield on the three-month T-bill, considered one of the safest investments, rose to 0.29 percent from 0.26 percent Friday.

The dollar was mixed against other major currencies, while gold prices fell.

Light, sweet crude fell $1.59 to settle at $38.44 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Overseas, Britain's FTSE 100 fell 0.99 percent, Germany's DAX index fell 1.95 percent, and France's CAC-40 slipped 0.82 percent. Earlier, Japan's Nikkei stock average fell 0.54 percent.
 
sweet, so that means in two years the economy will be rockin and dot-com-rollin! and all will be awesome again
 
time to jump in HARD if you're young and can afford the risk and have the ability to wait on your reward. . .personally. . .i'm gambling as much as i can afford to lose right now. . .stupid not to. . .
 
sweet, so that means in two years the economy will be rockin and dot-com-rollin! and all will be awesome again

I'm starting to think my dad was the smart guy with just a high school education. He grew up during the depression and didn't trust banks or the stock market. I inherited piles of government bonds worth quite a bit...:) If the market tanks much more I'll have unrecognized losses from when I first invested. :(
 
time to jump in HARD if you're young and can afford the risk and have the ability to wait on your reward. . .personally. . .i'm gambling as much as i can afford to lose right now. . .stupid not to. . .

I double down in my S&P 500 fund and it looks like I might still get pwned.

I have a Vanguard fund that is 60% S&P 500 and 40% bonds..it's my primary investment vehicle...I'm fugged..at least I have about thirty years before I retire.
 
i got a thousand bucks to toss, what should i do

keep it ,

every one said jump in when the stock market was 12k then at 10k, then everyone thought it cant go lower then 8k is the time to jump in.

now that it is at 7k ? cant it go lower?

Prob with just " jumping in is " what stocks do you buy companies are going under left and right and the stock becomes worthless. Even if the stockmarket recovers . No garrantee
the stocks you buy will make any money.

It not just gonna start climbing right away even if it does recover. With these conditions the market just kinda hovers.
Id watch it for a few weeks and see what direction it goes

Everyone claimed 5k was unrealistic . Not to sure how unrealistic it is now.Not sure how much money people will actually lose on the way down ether.

Just becuase it will eventually climb , as people panic others jump in . Besure if you make the jump you dont need to get off anytime soon,you might have to sink more before the ship gets pulled up and starts floating or even back to the point where you break even.
 
yes we broke through the old W bottom lows or watever..... it will be intresting to see where this goes...
 
I double down in my S&P 500 fund and it looks like I might still get pwned.

I have a Vanguard fund that is 60% S&P 500 and 40% bonds..it's my primary investment vehicle...I'm fugged..at least I have about thirty years before I retire.

i bought a number of things that i've wanted for a while initially. . .old, blue chip stuff. . .now. . .i'm pretty much buying ivv (ishares s&p index) and jkd (ishares morningstar large core index) exclusively. . .unfortunately, i don't have enough funny-money to buy a good, diversified portfolio of individual companies. . .so those are a good bet imho. . .
 
I have about $3k to toss, as well. I would like some advice as to what to do with it.


:cow:



jesus christ guys, hold on to your money for the love of god. Keep that 3k samoth, if you're going to do anything with it invest it in hard stuff like gold or plat. Don't you guys know that if the stimulus fails our currency is going to tank like the peso? I'm serious, that's not hyperbole. The inflation bomb that's going to hit us if our economy doesn't grow in the next couple years is ridiculous. Hold your fucking money.......christ.
 
i bought a number of things that i've wanted for a while initially. . .old, blue chip stuff. . .now. . .i'm pretty much buying ivv (ishares s&p index) and jkd (ishares morningstar large core index) exclusively. . .unfortunately, i don't have enough funny-money to buy a good, diversified portfolio of individual companies. . .so those are a good bet imho. . .

Bro, we should have a beer...
It's time for the son to realize his father has wisdom...
He gave me a high end education....and his old school values...I'm struggling and my dad knew...
 
Some very hard times ahead for many folks.



!
 
i bought a number of things that i've wanted for a while initially. . .old, blue chip stuff. . .now. . .i'm pretty much buying ivv (ishares s&p index) and jkd (ishares morningstar large core index) exclusively. . .unfortunately, i don't have enough funny-money to buy a good, diversified portfolio of individual companies. . .so those are a good bet imho. . .

I dont know what any of that means.....
 
Bro, we should have a beer...
It's time for the son to realize his father has wisdom...
He gave me a high end education....and his old school values...I'm struggling and my dad knew...

Just sayin' my high school educated dad was smarter than me..
 
I just love it when people look at to the stock market for anything.

It fell after 9/11, it tanked after the dot-com, it tanked on black monday (remember that kids?), it tanked during the depression, it tanked after iraq war started become a clusterfuck, it tanked also when gas prices rose (i bet you already forget that huh?).

Stock Market is where speculators with money want to GAMBLE away their savings. Stupid people = parted money. The smart men are the ones TAKING the money from the fools. Notice: real rich and intelligent people don't play the stock market. I think there was a study that a monkey throwing darts a dartboard came out ahead then 5 respected educated stock analysts.

All those stock market 'tanks' have had ZERO percent change in my life. Read up on some books on how the stock market system is really a big fat scam. It generates no GDP or wealth, only profits from scams of trading money back and forth. That's it!

(that's like me and dialtone exchanging $5 back and forth 20 times, and each time Pick3 gets 20c to blow on male thai ladyboy hookers. ie: "no wealth" is created. Stock Market isn't an "industry").

r
 
LOL that the stock market doesn't make money.... That was about ignorant. You make the right educated choices and talk with AV I bet you would have a better understanding. You are correct technically when you say the stock market is not a industry. Yet 10's of 1000's of industries rely on people placing stock (money) into their company. America wouldn't be America without the Stock Market LOL. WTF
 
Bro, we should have a beer...
It's time for the son to realize his father has wisdom...
He gave me a high end education....and his old school values...I'm struggling and my dad knew...

absolutely. . .i'd enjoy that. . .lets see what we can make happen after tax season. . .pittsburgh? i have business there on a pretty regular basis. . .lots of great watering holes. . .many that i know well from my 12 years in the city :)
 
LOL that the stock market doesn't make money.... That was about ignorant. You make the right educated choices and talk with AV I bet you would have a better understanding. You are correct technically when you say the stock market is not a industry. Yet 10's of 1000's of industries rely on people placing stock (money) into their company. America wouldn't be America without the Stock Market LOL. WTF

Yeah cuz when the first people came to America - and there was no stock market - they go on their boats and went home.

Yeah it creates jobs - from analysts, traders, secretaries, journalists, accountants, news reporters, newspapers, magazines, journals, banks, etc. etc.

Look up the history of how the stock market was created. Look at it's root. It's a big fat casino where people try to make money by virtue of a large amount of people who lose money. Sound familiar to another place? You can't have a stock market where everyone makes money. It doesn't work like that. Odd, because you can industries where everyone is making a profit (eg: oil).

Have you noticed no one is asking the 'stock market industry' to save us and take us out of a recession :)

Come on stock traders save us!!!

r
 
Yeah cuz when the first people came to America - and there was no stock market - they go on their boats and went home.

Yeah it creates jobs - from analysts, traders, secretaries, journalists, accountants, news reporters, newspapers, magazines, journals, banks, etc. etc.

Look up the history of how the stock market was created. Look at it's root. It's a big fat casino where people try to make money by virtue of a large amount of people who lose money. Sound familiar to another place? You can't have a stock market where everyone makes money. It doesn't work like that. Odd, because you can industries where everyone is making a profit (eg: oil).

Have you noticed no one is asking the 'stock market industry' to save us and take us out of a recession :)

Come on stock traders save us!!!

r

True to a certian degree, a Company is formed. The company Takes money from the public shareholders.
The ceo's ,owners and top exec's line their pockets with wealth getting paid from the share holders.
Company bounces around performing not performing so on and so on and rarley gives a shit ether way.
The top guys get bonuses , stock options and make tons of cash.
WITH NO RISK . The company goes under or loses money ITS THE SHAREHOLDERS THAT LOST MONEY . The top guys get paid reguardless.

It truley is the " FAT CAT SCHEME " some shareholders make money
but alot of them dont.
For ever 1 wal-mart that exist 250,000 other companies dont make it and the ceo's will suck the shareholders dry till the bitter end
 
I think the worst part of todays market failure is the lack of significant volume that signals a bottom!
 
It truley is the " FAT CAT SCHEME " some shareholders make money
but alot of them dont.
For ever 1 wal-mart that exist 250,000 other companies dont make it and the ceo's will suck the shareholders dry till the bitter end

Word. I bet people hear "Shareholders lose money" a lot more often than "Shareholders celebrate riches" in the news. :)

By elitists at the top -- the perception that 'stock market = making money' must be kept alive, so shady people with expensive desks in high-rises can continue to fleece money from old people, small businesses, middle class folks retirement plans. This status quo ain't going away no matter what. "The future is in oil commodoties and drug companies! Buy Buy Buy Grandpa!".

Funny, when this country was formed 'hard work = making money' used to be the mantra. Boy have times changed. People want shortcuts - which is why they fell so easily for that housing scam.

"There are no shortcuts in making money".

r
 
I think the worst part of todays market failure is the lack of significant volume that signals a bottom!

Yeah, Ive been looking for some sort of mass capitulation that has yet to come. Im still hopeful though...with my money at least.
 
...It's time for the son to realize his father has wisdom...
He gave me a high end education....and his old school values...I'm struggling and my dad knew...
said it before; gonna say it again: "the older i get the smarter my father becomes". :artist:
 
time to jump in HARD if you're young and can afford the risk and have the ability to wait on your reward. . .personally. . .i'm gambling as much as i can afford to lose right now. . .stupid not to. . .
i've been investing in the govenment's 401-K plan since day one on the job, spreading it out in every fund avialable to me to inverst in.

market goes up...market goes down.........
 
i've been investing in the govenment's 401-K plan since day one on the job, spreading it out in every fund avialable to me to inverst in.

market goes up...market goes down.........

that's obviously the best way to do it. . .but, for anyone that has put things off. . .or just has some extra money lying around and they'd like to get some buy-and-hold ownership interest in the best publicly-traded companies on the planet, at bargain-basement prices, you're probably not going to see another time like this for a while. . .
 
that's obviously the best way to do it. . .but, for anyone that has put things off. . .or just has some extra money lying around and they'd like to get some buy-and-hold ownership interest in the best publicly-traded companies on the planet, at bargain-basement prices, you're probably not going to see another time like this for a while. . .

Yeah but you have to be okay with waiting 10 years to see your $2000 investment turn into $3300. Most people who have more money to invest, like hundreds of thousands or millions - are better off investing in gold, or active investing. ie: Investing in something they know about, but others don't.

r
 
Yeah but you have to be okay with waiting 10 years to see your $2000 investment turn into $3300. Most people who have more money to invest, like hundreds of thousands or millions - are better off investing in gold, or active investing. ie: Investing in something they know about, but others don't.

r

unfortunately we (the members of ef) aren't "most people". . .moderate, steady, consistent "saving" is the key for "the rest of us". . .a group in which i am firmly entrenched. . .
 
Dude, I know nothing about stocks. I don't know what this short/long thing is. I just wanted to put this money back into, like, normal stock things.



:cow:


Sorry about that. "Double long" basically means that if the price of oil goes up (which everyone believes it will...probably a good 50% upside as the economy recovers) you will make double that.

If it drops, you will lose double that.

If youre looking for plain vanilla find a simple S&P ETF such as PWC: PWC - PowerShares Dynamic Market (ETF) - Google Finance

Follows the broad S&P 500, which has lost about 48% of its value over the past 14 months.
 
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