How to kill Gyno with Nolva on a Test E only cycle?

[Lou Super Man 123]

Hey guy, it's me again, Liam, it just have this question that I couldn't answer.
For sake of the argument let's say no matter what, you are not going to use an Aromatase Inhibitor, even if Jesus appears and says so, also it is your first cycle, you are on your genetic limit of growing, the cycle is Test E only 500 mg per week for 12 weeks, you are not using estrogen blockers neither and it appears that gyno started:

1.- How would you use Tamoxifen to kill Gyno if you are not using HCG while on cycle?

2.- How would you use Tamoxifen to kill Gyno if you are using HCG on cycle let's say 250 IUs E2D?

3.- Let's say you are doing the cycle along with HCG 250 IUs E2D and you want to control estrogen levels on cycle in a moderate way using Nolvadex, how would you dose it?

I just buyed everything I need to do my cycle which has been already explained in detail here and the feedback I had was "Everything is dialed on excepting your PCT", I fix it but it is another Thread.

A summary for you to understand my case is the follow:
-Age = 26
-Height = 6’2’’
-Weight = 220
-Bodyfat = 8%
-Years training = 6
-Cycles = I had never done one in my life.
-Goal = Massive bulk up, fat gain is not a concern.
-Cycle = Test E only 500 mg per week for 12 weeks.
-Nutrition = 40% Carbs, 30% Protein, 30% Fats.
-Calories = 4500 on workout days, 4000 on rest days.

As I said my cycle (and PCT) has its own Thread so let's try to avoid analyzing everything related to it in here.

Thanks a lot in before hand

Liam.

 

[Oatmeal12]

Hey guy, it's me again, Liam, it just have this question that I couldn't answer.
For sake of the argument let's say no matter what, you are not going to use an Aromatase Inhibitor, even if Jesus appears and says so, also it is your first cycle, you are on your genetic limit of growing, the cycle is Test E only 500 mg per week for 12 weeks, you are not using estrogen blockers neither and it appears that gyno started:

1.- How would you use Tamoxifen to kill Gyno if you are not using HCG while on cycle?

2.- How would you use Tamoxifen to kill Gyno if you are using HCG on cycle let's say 250 IUs E2D?

3.- Let's say you are doing the cycle along with HCG 250 IUs E2D and you want to control estrogen levels on cycle in a moderate way using Nolvadex, how would you dose it?

I just buyed everything I need to do my cycle which has been already explained in detail here and the feedback I had was "Everything is dialed on excepting your PCT", I fix it but it is another Thread.

A summary for you to understand my case is the follow:
-Age = 26
-Height = 6’2’’
-Weight = 220
-Bodyfat = 8%
-Years training = 6
-Cycles = I had never done one in my life.
-Goal = Massive bulk up, fat gain is not a concern.
-Cycle = Test E only 500 mg per week for 12 weeks.
-Nutrition = 40% Carbs, 30% Protein, 30% Fats.
-Calories = 4500 on workout days, 4000 on rest days.

As I said my cycle (and PCT) has its own Thread so let's try to avoid analyzing everything related to it in here.

Thanks a lot in before hand

Liam.

From what I have read around here you don't. You throw it away.

 

[El Hefe]

If its early or just a flare, puffy, red, sensitive, etc, Nolva may (in many cases) clear it up in a few days. I've always used Nolva when I have gyno symptoms (never had actual gyno). How long you continue the Nolva depends on the severity of symptoms and the stage of your cycle or pct. I might go 40/20/20/10.

But here's the important part and don't miss it. Nolva does little to reduce estrogen. Although I touted Nolva above, I always use it in conjunction with an AI to ensure I'm lowering estrogen so my gyno symptoms don't reappear the moment I stop Nolva.

So if your AI problem has to do with sourcing or whatever (really don't know why you wouldn't have an AI), maybe buy some OTC Forma Stanzol or Formasurge to run with the Nolva.

 

[Zyglamail]

nolva doesnt do anything to estrogen levels. Nolva itself is a form of estrogen that competes for estrogen at the receptor level. That being said, nolva isnt gonna kill gyno. At best its going to offer marginal protection by competing with estrogen.

Considering whats available today for estrogen control nolva (and clomide) are poor choices for estrogen control.

 

[Jbranken]

May I at least ask why you can't use an a.i.? Nolva is not the correct drug for this IMO and may bring on libido issues.

Aromasin (suicide a.i.) will kill the aromatase enzyme which is a very effective method whereas nolvadex (SERM) simply binds to the AR and may or may not effectively block estrogen from binding

 

[Lou Super Man 123]

From what I have read around here you don't. You throw it away.

Well, that's a very regrettable advice.
Thanks a lot for your feedback

But here's the important part and don't miss it. Nolva does little to reduce estrogen. Although I touted Nolva above, I always use it in conjunction with an AI to ensure I'm lowering estrogen so my gyno symptoms don't reappear the moment I stop Nolva.

Thanks a lot man, I just read some documented studies when Nolva makes better what your AI is doing.
Thanks

nolva doesnt do anything to estrogen levels. Nolva itself is a form of estrogen that competes for estrogen at the receptor level.

Thanks a lot, I just couldn't figure out why is Nolva recommended alone for treating Gyno if it don't lower estrogen levels, what it the cause of the problem, I just will keep studying this subject.

May I at least ask why you can't use an a.i.? Nolva is not the correct drug for this IMO and may bring on libido issues.

I have Arimidex, in fact it was the first drug I buyed, I just have 5 gr of Test Enan, 1 Box of Arimidex, 5000 UI of HCG, 2 boxes of Clomid and 2 boxes of Tamoxifen

I just was asking this for 2 reasons:

1.- I can only do my cycle with these 5 items only, Test Enan, Arimidex, HCG, Clomid and Nolva, why? Because it is humanly impossible for me to buy anything that is adviced as a "21 century's PCT" also I don't want to, I will stick to what's proven, documented and studied, I won't reinvent the wheel.

2.- I'm not a friend of:
-Hey, do you know what can help me with this?
-Yes, my product, go buy it.
So even if I could I don't want to and never will buy anything from Needto, I'm tired of the HCgenerate-Unleashed type of answer, a lot of admins here are doing the best they can to make people buy and only use products from there, some others say that Clomid and Nolva are garbage that doesn't work, are old and pretty much dangerous for you, very regrettable advice and very convenient for the Needto propaganda if you ask me.

I just when out of the subject hahahahaha

The reason I did this question is because I want to avoid AI's as much as I can because they increase a lot the risk of cardiovascular diseases, they negative affect your lipid profile and pretty much estrogen is an hormone that you want to have in your body, not to Kill it, people with "Panic to estrogen" just shows how little they have been studying the human body and EAA's in general.
Not to mention that an AI kills gains but that's pretty secondary, we're talking about Heart's risk.
People are very concern about visible side effects of what they are pinning or swallowing and seems to forgot what's most important, the side effects that you cannot see.

Thanks a ton for your answer man, have a nice day

 

[Zyglamail]

The reason I did this question is because I want to avoid AI's as much as I can because they increase a lot the risk of cardiovascular diseases, they negative affect your lipid profile and pretty much estrogen is an hormone that you want to have in your body, not to Kill it, people with "Panic to estrogen" just shows how little they have been studying the human body and EAA's in general.
Not to mention that an AI kills gains but that's pretty secondary, we're talking about Heart's risk.
People are very concern about visible side effects of what they are pinning or swallowing and seems to forgot what's most important, the side effects that you cannot see.

Thanks a ton for your answer man, have a nice day

No one here who knows what they are doing will recommend estrogen be "killed" but it should be controlled. AI's only KILL if used in excess. As far as them jacking your lipids and causing cardiovascular disease in the low doses that are used to CONTROL estrogen while on a cycle neither of these should be a problem. Many folks on TRT are on AI's for YEARS and dont have any issues.

And since when do AI's kill gains? More bro science if you ask me. Once again keep E in the normal lab range while cycle with AI use and you shouldnt have any problems with AI sides.

 

[RADAR]

Ditto....This ^^^^^^

 

[Lou Super Man 123]

No one here who knows what they are doing will recommend estrogen be "killed" but it should be controlled. AI's only KILL if used in excess. As far as them jacking your lipids and causing cardiovascular disease in the low doses that are used to CONTROL estrogen while on a cycle neither of these should be a problem. Many folks on TRT are on AI's for YEARS and dont have any issues.

And since when do AI's kill gains? More bro science if you ask me. Once again keep E in the normal lab range while cycle with AI use and you shouldnt have any problems with AI sides.

Best answer ever, you clarified me like a lot of doubts in one sitting
Thanks a lot for every word man, you help me A LOT
The fact that all I pointed in regards to AI's are Dose dependant changed my entire world and mind.
I was drowning in a glass of water.
Thanks!!!

 

[Lou Super Man 123]

Ditto....This ^^^^^^

Radar !! How you doing man?
I have been reading this forum for a couple of years and you are the guy I respect the most, I have to tell you that

Hey, speaking of the Thread, I still have a doubt, I want to take 1/4 of mg of Arimidex E3D on cycle (Test Enan 500 mg a week) but I'm thinking of doing 250 IU of HCG on cycle E2D what led me to the question:

HCG increases the estrogen, so what's difference does it make to apply HCG on cycle in that dose, in terms of the Arimidex's dose?

How would you use Arimidex to control estrogen doing a Test Enan 500 mg a week only cycle for a first time user in this cases?

1.- Doing Test Enan 500 mg a week only and anything else
2.- Doing Test Enan 500 mg a week + 250 IU's of HCG E2D

My info is:

-Age = 26
-Height = 6’2’’
-Weight = 220
-Bodyfat = 8%
-Years training = 6
-Cycles = I had never done one in my life.
-Goal = Massive bulk up, fat gain is not a concern.
-cycle = Test E only 500 mg per week for 12 weeks.
-Nutrition = No sat fats, no junk food, no fast digesting carbs
40% Carbs, 30% Protein, 30% Fats.
5 liters of water a day (About 1.3 gallons)
-Calories = 4500 on workout days, 4000 on rest days.

Thanks a lot for your support

 

[Zyglamail]

on 500mg week of test id would do 1mg 2x and possibly 3x a week.

On the topic of HCG, heep in mind that most of the E increase reported when people use HVG is because HCE causes the body to release more test which means more aromatization of T into E. Additionally, 250 units of HCG is a very small dose and going to have a minimal impact on E levels.

I base my above recomendation on the fact that most guys running TRT are using 100mg test a week + a decent bump of HCG (ie 700 units)

OR

200mg of test + 2x 250Unuts of HCG weekly

Guys running the above HRT plans are often on 1mg adex 2x a week and have E levels withing normal lab range.

 

[RADAR]

Radar !! How you doing man?
I have been reading this forum for a couple of years and you are the guy I respect the most, I have to tell you that

Hey, speaking of the Thread, I still have a doubt, I want to take 1/4 of mg of Arimidex E3D on cycle (Test Enan 500 mg a week) but I'm thinking of doing 250 IU of HCG on cycle E2D what led me to the question:

HCG increases the estrogen, so what's difference does it make to apply HCG on cycle in that dose, in terms of the Arimidex's dose?

How would you use Arimidex to control estrogen doing a Test Enan 500 mg a week only cycle for a first time user in this cases?

1.- Doing Test Enan 500 mg a week only and anything else
2.- Doing Test Enan 500 mg a week + 250 IU's of HCG E2D

My info is:

-Age = 26
-Height = 6’2’’
-Weight = 220
-Bodyfat = 8%
-Years training = 6
-Cycles = I had never done one in my life.
-Goal = Massive bulk up, fat gain is not a concern.
-cycle = Test E only 500 mg per week for 12 weeks.
-Nutrition = No sat fats, no junk food, no fast digesting carbs
40% Carbs, 30% Protein, 30% Fats.
5 liters of water a day (About 1.3 gallons)
-Calories = 4500 on workout days, 4000 on rest days.

Thanks a lot for your support

Thank you I really appreciate that!

The answer to your Question ,since this is your first cycle it is best to have an AI on hand, you may even be like me and not even be prone to estrogen buildup/hence gyno, However its better to have an ai on hand for that just in case, if you do feel the need to use an ai start with .25 eod, as each case is user sensitive.
As far as HCG, HCG directly stimulates aromatization. Its not that it turns into estrogen itself. To say the only reason someone has gyno symptoms from it is because it raises T is incorrect. the stimulation of the aromatase enzyme, in regards to HCG, has nothing to do with HCG raising T levels.
Your T levels are so high on cycle it has more material to turn into estrogen so yes more people are more sensitive to gyno while on it.HCG is used to help get your body back in the game faster before starting PCT so theres no need to run it the whole cycle, the last two weeks is sufficient @ 500iu's a week then start up PCT.
Remember a good PCT is just as important in keeping gains as the cycle itself.

 

[Lou Super Man 123]

on 500mg week of test id would do 1mg 2x and possibly 3x a week.

On the topic of HCG, heep in mind that most of the E increase reported when people use HVG is because HCE causes the body to release more test which means more aromatization of T into E. Additionally, 250 units of HCG is a very small dose and going to have a minimal impact on E levels.

I base my above recomendation on the fact that most guys running TRT are using 100mg test a week + a decent bump of HCG (ie 700 units)

OR

200mg of test + 2x 250Unuts of HCG weekly

Guys running the above HRT plans are often on 1mg adex 2x a week and have E levels withing normal lab range.

Thank you very much, I was suspecting that, that dose is very small as I read in some studies too.
I think I will save it for pre PCT as I originally wanted

Thanks!!

 

[Lou Super Man 123]

Thank you I really appreciate that!

The answer to your Question ,since this is your first cycle it is best to have an AI on hand, you may even be like me and not even be prone to estrogen buildup/hence gyno, However its better to have an ai on hand for that just in case, if you do feel the need to use an ai start with .25 eod, as each case is user sensitive.
As far as HCG, HCG directly stimulates aromatization. Its not that it turns into estrogen itself. To say the only reason someone has gyno symptoms from it is because it raises T is incorrect. the stimulation of the aromatase enzyme, in regards to HCG, has nothing to do with HCG raising T levels.
Your T levels are so high on cycle it has more material to turn into estrogen so yes more people are more sensitive to gyno while on it.HCG is used to help get your body back in the game faster before starting PCT so theres no need to run it the whole cycle, the last two weeks is sufficient @ 500iu's a week then start up PCT.
Remember a good PCT is just as important in keeping gains as the cycle itself.

Got it!

HCG for the testicles to produce Testosterone
Clomid for LH
And as optional Nolva for lowering estrogen and that way helping the PCT

One question, do you mean only 500 IU's of HCG a week or 500 IU's E2D or E3D?

Before having your advices this is what I had on paper:

Week 1-10 Test E 500 mg a week
Week 10-12 HCG 1000 E3D
Week 12-16 Clomid 50 50 25 25 ED
Week 12-16 Tamoxifen 25 25 25 25 ED

Arimidex on hand in case of Gyno, (0.25 EOD if that's the case)

I'm waiting for your reply to do the fix on how to apply HCG but,

What would you do different?
Would you add Tamoxifen to the Arimidex treatment of Gyno? If so, how?
Would you take 250 mg of Test Enan E3D or E4D?

Thanks a TON in before hand

 

[RADAR]

Got it!

HCG for the testicles to produce Testosterone
Clomid for LH
And as optional Nolva for lowering estrogen and that way helping the PCT

One question, do you mean only 500 IU's of HCG a week or 500 IU's E2D or E3D?

Before having your advices this is what I had on paper:

Week 1-10 Test E 500 mg a week
Week 10-12 HCG 1000 E3D
Week 12-16 Clomid 50 50 25 25 ED
Week 12-16 Tamoxifen 25 25 25 25 ED

Arimidex on hand in case of Gyno, (0.25 EOD if that's the case)

I'm waiting for your reply to do the fix on how to apply HCG but,

What would you do different?
Would you add Tamoxifen to the Arimidex treatment of Gyno? If so, how?
Would you take 250 mg of Test Enan E3D or E4D?

Thanks a TON in before hand

Since this is your first Cycle, your virgin receptors are going to respond accordinly so theres no need to use an excessive amount the very first time 250iu's Twice a week should be sufficient, as you get more cycles under your belt then your PCT should be upgraded The goes for HCG also.
The test ester Eth & cyp is a long ester so injects can be done 500mg once per week or 250mg on mon & thurs The only difference is that injecting twice weekly will result in more stable blood levels.
Personally i would just junk the nova.