Why has Masteron shut my libido down? Adex/Prov/Mast too much?

[lanier1974]

This is my first post and I've dropped it on a few forums to feel out which one is the place for me.

On wk6 of my first cycle, planned for 12 weeks. Started with test and proviron, tapered up test and added arimidex second week, and added masteron beginning wk5. I've been strength training for 10 years. I live in Japan where it's legal to order gear, but not good to go around advertising it to your doctor (especially as an alien resident), so no bloodwork option.

Stats:
38 years old, 185cm
62kg 8%fat when in climbing shape, 64kg cycle start, 73kg now.

Wk 1
Test Cyp 200mg
Proviron 50mg ED

Wk 2-3
Test 400mg
Proviron 50mg ED
Arimidex 0.5mg EOD

Wk 4
Test 600mg
Proviron 50mg ED
Arimidex 0.5mg EOD

Wk 5-6 (present)
Test 400mg
Proviron 50mg ED
Arimidex 0.5mg EOD
Masteron 100mg EOD

Planned to continue this through end of Wk12

Planned PCT:
Wk13-15
HCG EOD from last pin, 20 shots @2000IU

Wk 15-18
Clomid
Nolvadex
Aromisin or Arimidex

PCT Wk 19-22
Aro/Ari taper and finish

I've always been pretty strong for my size but small muscled and light. I'm an ectomorph but even when really lean (like veiny abs lean) have small stubborn fatty deposits around nipple and love handle area, suggesting estrogen? It's nearly impossible for me to gain lean mass no matter the macros or calories.

Started the cycle on a 14 day rock climbing trip in Thailand, sport climbing 6-8hrs hard EOD, with just 200mg test cyp and 50mg prov. Blew up like a balloon in a matter of days. Didn't recognize my face. Nips immediately sore. Water gain like nobody's biz. Shot from 64kg to 70kg that week and it wasn't all muscle.

Added Arimidex second week, and Nolvadex on demand whenever nips felt sore (1 or 2 times). Bloat got 50% better within two weeks. Bumped up test to 400, then 600mg by wk4. Getting stronger but no more gain. Eating plenty. Libido pretty darn good. Nightly wood through the morning.

Added 100mg Masteron 3x wk on wk5. Immediately got REALLY horny, felt COMPELLED to masturbate (no girlfriend lately), and was the HARDEST I've ever been! Workouts became stronger than ever.

But, within one or two days (nearly 2 weeks ago), my loads shrank, my erection hardness returned to normal, and my libido DROPPED. Mental interest is there, just no physical drive or get-off sensation. Also, that lovin' feelin' and overall wellbeing/elation/pump I'd had on test vanished. Feel normal/flat.

What's going on? Thought Masteron and DHT was supposed to have the opposite effect? Im not balding, nor do I have much body hair, an DHT hasn't changed that at all, not even much acne. It would seem that I'm estrogen/bloat prone from observation. Has the combo of Proviron, Arimidex, and Masteron lowered my estradiol too much? I cut out the masteron today. Gonna see what happens.

What do you think is up?

 

[musclei]

Wow, that's a lot of gear and different kinds for a first cycle. That's why new users are recommended to start with Testosterone only and see how their bodies react.
I see a couple of things I don't like about your cycle, but since this post is about your libido, here's what I have to say about that: you shouldn't expect your libido to remain constant all through the cycle because there's bound to be ups and downs no matter how correctly you're doing it.
In your case, this could be cause by a lot of things but (almost definitely) not from the presence of Masteron. Maybe your Adex is fake or you're not reacting to it (I know I don't), maybe you shouldn't be using Nolva during a cycle, maybe your diet isn't on point or maybe you're just tired.

 

[lanier1974]

Fair observations. Thanks. By all means, don't hold back; dissect my cycle as you see fit. As for a lot of gear first cycle, it's not like I'm hitting anabol or dbol, or deca or tren. Test, a bit of pretty safe stuff like prov and Adex to keep it in check, and introduced mast week 5 after id checked my reaction to test alone, which also has few sides and isn't considered risky as far as I've read. If the Adex was fake, why did my bloat and nips get better (tho not 100%)? Wouldn't I have more problems than I do? I'm not taking nolvadex on cycle regularly. I've taken a 40mg dose only three separate occasions in direct response to my nips feeling especially sore, which got fixed all three times. So nolvadex has been emergency stuff. I figure libido goes up and down' but this went from out of control to nothing, in two days, RIGHT after I took the masteron. That's why I suspect it. The workouts though have been stronger though. Definitely not tired. Diet is leangains with paleo foods, natural steak and sweetpotatoes, greens, spot on.

 

[musclei]

Well, since you're asking to have your cycle analyzed...

You're taking around 800mg of gear per week (not counting Proviron). My first cycle was 500mg of test-e per week and that's considered too much for a newbie in this forum where I've seen guys start at 300mg.

You're using Proviron and Masteron in the same cycle when they're actually the same compound (or at least very close).
I've also noticed you reduce your testosterone when you introduce Masteron. They're different compounds with different effects: you can't substitute one with the other; you can't replace testosterone with DHT like that.

And finally, you're tapering compounds. This practice has fallen out of fashion in the recent years as it's not necessary, much less when you're using long esters like cypionate.

I can't comment on your diet because I'm not familiar with paleo foods and you're not providing quantities... I'm not much of a diet expert anyway. Who knows, just relax and let libido come back on its own; at worst it's just a couple of months with normal/low libido until you finish your cycle.

 

[lanier1974]

Maybe you misread my post, where did you see I reduced the test when I introduced masteron? It was at 600mg when I started mast and hasn't changed. I started test wk 1 at 200mg to see how I'd react. then Wk2 400mg, wk3 400mg, wk5 600mg and has stayed that way. Hit mast in wk5. Today I stopped mast and will stay at 50mg prov and 600mg test cyp only. Saw many newbies recommended to take 500mg test. My test amps are 200mg/ea so it was easier to just make it and even 600mg. Again appreciate the feedback.

 

[lanier1974]

Ah crap, mistyped that. Should say
Week 2-3 400mg
Week 5 to present (wk6) 600mg.

Test has been increased , not decreased.

 

[musclei]

Wk 4
test 600mg
Proviron 50mg ED
Arimidex 0.5mg EOD

Wk 5-6 (present)
test 400mg
Proviron 50mg ED
Arimidex 0.5mg EOD
Masteron 100mg EOD

This is what I meant: at week 5 Mast comes in and test goes down.

 

[lanier1974]

Yeah I saw that. You see my most recent post? I corrected my mistake. Test has only gone up, not down. I mistyped in my original post. Sorry bout that.

 

[musclei]

I think we posted at the same time. Anyway, give it a couple of weeks and see if you feel better.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'm going to say the problem is the nolvadex. it almost always is. And you got sore nips from 200 mgs of test and proviron? That's almost impossible. You must be HIGHLY suseptable to gyno or have naturally high estrogen levels.

 

[Zyglamail]

What do you think is up?

Any answers are going to be strictly speculation. Using how you "feel", dick hardness, horniness etc as a judge of whats happening hormonally inside your body is basically worthless.

There are a bunch of online sources to buy lab tests and they have you goto a local lab for blood draw and then show you the results. No doc needed.

And by the way, you were likely shut down before you ever added masteron.

 

[stevesmi]

nolvadex killed your libido as nelson said. the timing of it i'm not sure about but also you are running too many compounds that block estrogen. so your estrogen probably is very low also hurting libido during cycle.

get off the nolva and don't stack so many things together like that.. with those stats you aren't gonna ever be Ronnie Coleman so why are you trying to be clever with your cycles? first cycle should be 1 compound only. its like having sex for the first time with 4 girls. you will end up looking stupid to them.. stick to 1 girl first, learn what you are doing.. and then later on go for 2 if you are into that type of thing.. then 3 .. and then 4 later on.

 

[musclei]

Any answers are going to be strictly speculation. Using how you "feel", dick hardness, horniness etc as a judge of whats happening hormonally inside your body is basically worthless.

There are a bunch of online sources to buy lab tests and they have you goto a local lab for blood draw and then show you the results. No doc needed.

Yep, that's one of the things that struck me as odd when he mentioned it. Dude, all you need to get labs is go and gem them done. Take a list of which values you want checked and that's all. Only problem is money or I'll do it more often.

 

[masterkush81]

nolvadex killed your libido as nelson said. the timing of it i'm not sure about but also you are running too many compounds that block estrogen. so your estrogen probably is very low also hurting libido during cycle.

get off the nolva and don't stack so many things together like that.. with those stats you aren't gonna ever be Ronnie Coleman so why are you trying to be clever with your cycles? first cycle should be 1 compound only. its like having sex for the first time with 4 girls. you will end up looking stupid to them.. stick to 1 girl first, learn what you are doing.. and then later on go for 2 if you are into that type of thing.. then 3 .. and then 4 later on.

This is great advice!!!!! Steve knows whats he's doing...

 

[lanier1974]

Nelson, yes, I thought it was odd also. After my first shot of 200mg I started swelling up. After my second shot of 200mg I blew up like a balloon! And by that second week, my nipples were quite sore. My buddy, whose first cycle it is too, took the same as me, and didnt bloat at all. He doesnt get those estrogen fatty deposits, but i do. That's when I added arimidex, and took a dose of nolvadex. I have stayed on the Adex but the nolvadex I've only taken three times. So that makes me wonder whether the nolvadex could possibly affect my libido. The masteron was the one that seemed to affect it, timeline wise. I do think I have high estrogen naturally. I must. Would explain the fast bloat. Also, even sub 8% bodyfat when I can see the veins in my abs during rock climbing season, I can never get rid of my love handles or a bit of fat in my chest, with the cleanest, strictest leangains diet imaginable. Really frustrating.

 

[lanier1974]

I sincerely appreciate everyones help!

Zyglamail, about the bloodwork....Im an American living in Japan. I can't begin to describe how touchy and difficult getting anything done here is. Suffice to say, ANYTHING that isn't group robotic think, normal, or just plain usual, is met with passive aggressive refusal. Utterly. If I were military its easy, but I'm a self sponsored visa holder and I have to be careful. Asking for ANYTHING out of the ordinary sends up red flags and has Nihonjin scurrying....you learn to keep your head down here. Gear is legal, injecting it isn't. Crazy. I can mail order domestic testosterone, and syringes are illegal. Go figure.

Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced online lab company? Getting blood drawn may be feasible as I can make up any reason I want.

I didn't FEEL shutdown before I added masteron...I was horny as hell until the second day after the mast shot. Very pronounced and immediate change. I don't WANT to blame the mast, but it's a big coincidence ain't it?

Steve, how could nolvadex kill my libido if I only took it on three occasions over six weeks? You seem to think my estrogen is too low, Nelson thinks its too high. ??? My other symptoms seem to suggest its high as mentioned above in my prev post. I blew up immediately like a balloon, and my natural fat deposit patterns suggest it too.

As for so much gear, from my reading, I was under the impression the stuff I was taking was synergistic and helped each other....unlike the multiplying effects such as hitting tren or dbol or deca on top. I wanted to use the prov and then dht to add a bit of "manliness".....most people think im 28. i seriously look young. zero body hair. young boys hairline. Added adex to manage severe and immediate bloat. popped emergency nolva as nips demanded.

I'm learning. Thanks for teaching. Steve, should I take clomid and not nolvadex during pct then in your opinion? In not "on" the nolva now, it's just for emergency management when I get sore nips.

 

[lanier1974]

BTW, mid week six now and I've gained 10kg! Plenty of water, and a bit of fat, but solid gains too. Never happened in my life without test.

And, I've skipped my Masteron prop shot. Changed nothing else. Today is three days without, libido is up a bit, but more significantly, my overall satisfied/happy/testosterone-good-feeling has returned. Hmm.

 

[lanier1974]

Well, Adex is the same at 0.5mg EOD, masteron stopped three days ago. Noticed today the bloat/swelling around my ankles has returned, which happened with the initial bloat at week one and two, but had gone down since with the Adex. Granted Ive been eating a ton, including a lot of potatoes to help bulk up.....but bloat is obviously getting worse again without the masteron and no other change.

What's the recommended course? Given this development, shall I add back the masteron and leave alone the Adex, add back the masteron and lower the Adex, or just raise the Adex?

Interesting thought: Day after the first masteron shot, my libido shot so high I was compelled to go home and masturbate, and I've never been so hard in my life. That days workout was super strong. Second day after, libido crashed to nothing. I wonder: did the masteron DHT initially drive my libido up, but the subsequent estrogen lowering effect of DHT override this and lower my libido via a different pathway? In other words, the horny driven effect is still present, but the secondary effect of lowering estrogen overrides that effect? Yet, I stil have bloat and my body has always had signs of high estrogen, so could this be possible, for me that is, to have estrogen too low?

Advise?

 

[JTJT123]

First, get your blood pressure taken. If you're bloated up like a balloon and you're blood pressure is high that could be affecting you're sexual performance. You say the desire is there so that leads me to believe it might not be a hormonal problem, though there really isn't any way to know for certain without a blood test. You're trying to figure this out based on symptoms and a timeline like "Oh I took a shot of Masteron on Tuesday and was randy as a goat on Wednesday but on Friday my nips got sore and my sausage lost his ruddy complexion until Sunday when I ate a snickers bar and everything returned to normal so is my estrogen too high or too low or is my dihydrotestosterone too sideways?" You're forgetting that you were on cycle for 5 weeks before you used any masteron and your problems started in which time you had used large doses of testosterone plus proviron, AI's and Serms-Lotta drugs-Lotta downstream reactions in your body that no one is going to be able to keep up with on a message board and tell you what your problem is, especially if you can't post up bloodwork which it doesn't seem like you can. In other words, these things are cumulative and seeing a side effect or temporary improvement of that side effect is not necessarily a result of what you did the day before. If you want my advise it's time to abort this cycle. Keep using your proviron until the long estered test runs its course while blasting some HCG-or in your case some HMG since it doesn't seem to make estrogen spike like HCG does and you seem to be pretty susceptible to that-get your balls working again and then figure out a PCT using natural supps that support recovery and sex drive-think bulbine, bulgarian trib, indonesian longjack, maca, muira puama, catuaba, avenocosides or one of the many combo products they make. Lay off the serms since you don't seem to do well with drugs plus they suck and next time use more common sense. I don't mean to put you down but why the hell would you up your test dosage to 400 and then 600 when you were bloating to where you could not recognize your face on 200? I'm betting you planned out a cycle beforehand and followed it to the letter without adjusting to what you were seeing in the mirror which is understandable so long as you don't do the same thing next time. Also, ending this cycle now isn't really so bad considering you've gained 22lbs and even if 5 or 6 of those lbs are lean mass that isn't the end of the world especially considering your HPTA should recover quickly since you weren't on for too long. And for your next cycle remember the term "minimal effective amount" for both the steroids and the ancillaries.

 

[lanier1974]

JT, damn straight answer. Thanks for that. Food for thought.

I bloated without Adex the first week. When I added it, bloat got better. So I continued. Nobody gets much mass on 200mg so down the rabbit hole I went. 400mg with Adex and still no mass. Studies I read showed a huge mass gain change between 300 and 600mg. Most considered 600mg safe. So that's what I did. Bloat was there but steady. On 600mg I began to actually feel the test and get some mass. So I'm glad I went to that level.

Point taken about time and a cocktail being too complex to sort out logically. Maybe I'm stupid but I can't get the kind of bloodwork and doctor care here in Japan on a teachers salary in the most expensive city in the world, Tokyo. Then again, gear is legal and clean, which isn't the case back home.

As for libido, upon further thought; my interest has been way up the whole time. And I've spent quite a few loads. The mental drive is still there, and while less hard, all still works. 6 weeks is also concurrent with shrinkage so that may be at play. Honestly, steroids notwithstanding , jacking off this much makes anyone dry. Sadly no girlfriend at this point. Mast made me more irritated, without it I'm more happy. But today's lift lacked the fury mast gave me. Trade off I suppose.

I am thinking of upping the Adex given my ankles are bloated and just continue the masteron as it keeps the bloat down. I highly doubt my estrogen is too low considering my symptoms and history. Flying blind, yes, bloodwork needed, certainly.

If it gets worse, I'll call it and come off. Planned 12wk, but as Patton said, plans go out the window the minute the first shot is fired.

Anyone got that online lab recommendation?

 

[musclei]

As for so much gear, from my reading, I was under the impression the stuff I was taking was synergistic and helped each other....unlike the multiplying effects such as hitting tren or dbol or deca on top. I wanted to use the prov and then dht to add a bit of "manliness".....most people think im 28. i seriously look young. zero body hair. young boys hairline. Added adex to manage severe and immediate bloat. popped emergency nolva as nips demanded.

Yes, your choice of steroids is good (other than combining Mast and Proviron which are the same thing) and you're on a good cycle, but it's still true that you're taking double the quantity and compounds a newcomer should and that's why you don't know where you're symptoms come from.

Regarding not feeling masculine enough and still looking like a child... I can relate and you're going to love Masteron once you learn and adapt. I think you're only going through the ups and downs of a cycle. I do get them too and I wish I knew how to avoid them which is something Masteron has helped me with greatly.

I say relax, keep training hard and forget about sex for the moment because it's only putting pressure on yourself.

 

[lanier1974]

Damn everything you said is right on and Franky reassuring. Much appreciated. Yes, I'm in the ups and downs of entirely new territory or sure. Wanting to do this for 20years and just now getting to do it is amazing. I feel awesome. I've gained 22lbs in six weeks. I threw up 5x6 deads today at a weight that was a one time 1rm today. I can now do two reps of double military kettlebell presses with a weight I've tried and failed to even budge one handed for seven years.

I think the libido has more to do with just hitting another part of my cycle and having jacked off way too much than anything else. Today it's been 3 days off mast, and my bloat is way up, ankles are puffy even, and I've lost that FURY in the gym. I'm pretty sure my estrogen is high. Gonna go back on the masteron and up my adex. There's just no way my estrogen is too low.

Btw how much mast do you run? Also, ever done a mast only cycle for strength and cutting on a deficit diet? Will it shut you down enough to warrant full chem pct?

 

[musclei]

I think the libido has more to do with just hitting another part of my cycle and having jacked off way too much than anything else. Today it's been 3 days off mast, and my bloat is way up, ankles are puffy even, and I've lost that FURY in the gym. I'm pretty sure my estrogen is high. Gonna go back on the masteron and up my adex. There's just no way my estrogen is too low.

Btw how much mast do you run? Also, ever done a mast only cycle for strength and cutting on a deficit diet? Will it shut you down enough to warrant full chem pct?

Another of the problems I had with my early cycles was that I was using Adex to control estrogen and it did absolutely nothing on me. It wasn't until I switched to Aromasin on my third cycle that I started having solid cycles with all good and less bad: no bloat, not losing strength, not feeling fat or watery. I'd switch to Aromasin if I were you as soon as possible. Even during the duration of this cycle if you can find it.

Regarding how much Masteron, 200mg a week is a low dose and yet a magnificent addition to any cycle. No Masteron, no cycle for me, it's that simple. I don't know if my body has a problem converting test to DHT or what's wrong with me but I NEED those 200mg of Mast. My last cycle was Deca 500mg + Test-c 300mg + Mast 200mg and it was awesome in all respects.

On Masteron only cycles: nobody does that and neither should you. I have a theory that it's possible and it might even not shut you down at all, but there's no need to risk it with a cycle without test.

 

[lanier1974]

Yes, Adex is doing next to nothing for me at 0.5 EOD. Adding masteron started to bring down the bloat. Just three days without it, and last night my normally skinny ankles look like an 80 year old granma's with gout who was on her feet too long! That happened in the first two weeks of test too, which the mast had brought down. Man I'm fat and watery as hell!! My legs are so full that my ITB and lateral facia are sore from being stretched from the inside out!

Ill switch to aromasin immediately as you suggest. Im lucky; blood tests may be though here in Japan, but gear is fast and legal. Ill mail order it and its here in three days reg post. Is it ok to go on the aromasin now and also use it during my pct (I had planned to switch to aromasin pct anyway)?

Your above comments about your body and DHT are EXACTY how I feel! Man it's great to know I'm not alone in that. Masteron is the best thing I've ever done! God, being off and back on mast, I really notice and remember this effect!! God it's the best feeling ever! Trumps test hands down! I've had an inherent, intuitive feeling that I lacked DHT and had excess estrogen for a long time. This trip has confirmed that. I blow up in response to test alone or with Adex combined (estrogen), but masteron's DHT rush scratches the itch I've always wanted to reach!!!! As the masteron waned, I could again feel the test/estrogen only feeling. It's nice. Content, happy, great satisfied mood! Horny too. But not aggressive in the least, and bloat like a water balloon!! Took my Masteron shot last night. I'm sitting here at Shibuya Starbucks this AM in Tokyo sipping my coffee brew and it's coming on....I'm feeling the rush of confident, intense, manageable fury and aggression of an alpha male in charge and ready to rip the heart out of my prey. It's the best feeling of any drug/food/training in my life!!!

Why do you like masteron so much? I'm taking 100mg 3x wk and thinking to bump to 400mg total.

Lemme know what you think about the Aromisin pct.

 

[lanier1974]

Btw, you're in Madrid? Are you Spanish? I'm wanting to move to Spain. I teach in Tokyo, but I really want to try out Europe. Been all over Europe three times backpacking, and before my Japanese messed up my Spanish, I could get by speaking ok.

 

[musclei]

Why do you like masteron so much? I'm taking 100mg 3x wk and thinking to bump to 400mg total.

Lemme know what you think about the Aromisin pct.

Dude, it's your first cycle and you're already on most gear than most others in this forum. Relax, go with your initial plan (but switch to Aromasin) and stop thinking about adding more.

 

[lanier1974]

Word

 

[Dial_tone]

160lbs and over a gram on first cycle...this is why I stopped reading this forum.

 

[lanier1974]

600mg test cyp, 300mg masteron. For the record.

 

[lanier1974]

So, I can't figure out if I've got low estrogen or high.

When I first hit the test, 200mg, no AI, just 50mg proviron ED, I started bloating. By the second week I swole up like a balloon, my nipples got sensitive, and my skinny ankles turned into cankles.....so much swelling it looked like gout!

Added 0.5mg Adex EOD and it got a little better but that's it. Ankles went down by wk 3. Kept it that way.

Rock-hard on's nightly, libido all good. Interest and performance way up.

Week 5 added 100mg 3x wk masteron. Immediately got hard as hell the next day and libido full on. Then, during the ensuing two weeks, libido crashed. I was shooting the masteron together with my 3x wk test shots. Bloat went down a little more. Libido flat. Night sweats went up like crazy.

Last Thursday, I injected my test alone without the masteron. Friday, my ankles had swolen back up to earlier levels (looks awful!). Face ballooned too. I noticed libido went back up a little, and my overall happy feeling went back up (I had felt flat on the masteron). I'm wondering if the masteron shot concurrently with the test stops its aromatization right then and there. When I shot test alone, that rush of unadulterated and unlimited test (bc of absent masteron) just aromatized like crazy.

So, friday night, fearing estrogen (and I can't have my ankles or face like that because I teach and students notice), I popped a 1mg dose of arimidex and a shot of masteron. Saturday the masteron DHT felt confident and mildly aggressive, but my mood and libido returned to flat again. Saturday night, I barely got hard at all during the usual night hard on's.

Ok, I'm stupid. And eager. Being skinny all my life and gaining 22 lbs has been a rush. As you guys have advised, I'm on too much gear and ill drop the masteron for that reason; your advice.

Now, by my serious reaction to bloat, it would seem estrogen is high in me, lot of aromatisation, which the masteron limited. But then the higher dose of arimidex and masteron added back in has my night woods stopped.

Is my estrogen high, or low?

God I need to get a panel done. Trying to find a Japanese doc that will do it without raising questions.