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Apparently the following is a "controversial" statement

hanselthecaretaker

High End Bro
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There is no monopoly on becoming a millionaire," she writes. "If you're jealous of those with more money, don't just sit there and complain. Do something to make more money yourself - spend less time drinking, or smoking and socializing and more time working.

'Drink Less, Work More', Billionaire Tells Non-Rich - Yahoo! Finance


Apparently all people can focus on is that she inherited all her money, so what does she know about hard work?

Well, the message still holds true. It shouldn't take Mitt Romney or someone to say it. Oh wait, people still would complain.
 
Hmm. I wonder why she is starting a class war. Seems petty, no?

It's like the thin people complaining about the fat war.
 
There is no monopoly on becoming a millionaire," she writes. "If you're jealous of those with more money, don't just sit there and complain. Do something to make more money yourself - spend less time drinking, or smoking and socializing and more time working.

'Drink Less, Work More', Billionaire Tells Non-Rich - Yahoo! Finance


Apparently all people can focus on is that she inherited all her money, so what does she know about hard work?

Well, the message still holds true. It shouldn't take Mitt Romney or someone to say it. Oh wait, people still would complain.

America is working more. In general. working people work more for less pay.
I've seen dozens of farmers working 18 hours a day. Not drinking and socializing.
They arent "millionaires".
Does that mean they aren't hard workers? Or play too much?
 
America is working more. In general. working people work more for less pay.
I've seen dozens of farmers working 18 hours a day. Not drinking and socializing.
They arent "millionaires".
Does that mean they aren't hard workers? Or play too much?


Never said the system isn't corrupt. That's a whole other issue though.
 
Exactly, if you're not a millionaire you are going home too early and not staying at work!
 
I think most people work harder than their pay reflects. Some people get lucky and just have things click. Most rich people sacrificed more than people realize in order to get where they are. That doesn't mean sacrificing things is going to make you rich, but most of these people didn't just get everything handed to them on a silver platter. Most of the people that I personally know that think rich people should be taxed just because they have the money are people that do the bare minimum at work, don't take advantage of grants or other programs to better themselves, and waste whatever "extra" money they have on iphones, eating out at shitty places every day, and on other shit they have no business spending money on.
 
There is no monopoly on becoming a millionaire," she writes. "If you're jealous of those with more money, don't just sit there and complain. Do something to make more money yourself - spend less time drinking, or smoking and socializing and more time working.

'Drink Less, Work More', Billionaire Tells Non-Rich - Yahoo! Finance


Apparently all people can focus on is that she inherited all her money, so what does she know about hard work?

Well, the message still holds true. It shouldn't take Mitt Romney or someone to say it. Oh wait, people still would complain.

"The peasants have no bread."

"Let them eat cake."
 
America is working more. In general. working people work more for less pay.
I've seen dozens of farmers working 18 hours a day. Not drinking and socializing.
They arent "millionaires".
Does that mean they aren't hard workers? Or play too much?

they should make a change...do something different.
 
People dont get rich by working for other people.

bam we have a winner..

agreeing to exchange your time for XXXX $$$ is stupid why would you agree to make someone else money??

because the union says that's the way to do it?? that's how your mom and dad did it??

grow up and smell the coffee.. and become part of the 48% that actually pay taxes..

good job sd..
 
There is no monopoly on becoming a millionaire," she writes. "If you're jealous of those with more money, don't just sit there and complain. Do something to make more money yourself - spend less time drinking, or smoking and socializing and more time working.

'Drink Less, Work More', Billionaire Tells Non-Rich - Yahoo! Finance


Apparently all people can focus on is that she inherited all her money, so what does she know about hard work?

Well, the message still holds true. It shouldn't take Mitt Romney or someone to say it. Oh wait, people still would complain.


orly, she's an heiress. Can you not detect the sanctimonious irony in someone like that lecturing non millionaires about how to get where she's at?? I mean c'mon dude.
 
Nah, BB just prefers to give them a cut of yours. Its the responsibility of Americans to take care of your fellow man. :rolleyes:

Negative. It's the responsibility of Humans in a Society to keep the society at a certain level.
Having 2 classes has never worked out for any Society.
People that are only for number one all the time and don't believe in compassion for their own people are are barbarians.
Sad to say Z, but if there were 2 classes ( Oligarchs and Surfs) You'd be just a surf. Everyone on this site with the Exception of a Couple would be in the Surf class.
I'm a strong supporter of a Strong middle class, a small poor class and a small rich class.
Take that shit to the bank troll.

DrOiD BioNiC EF App!
 
Negative. It's the responsibility of Humans in a Society to keep the society at a certain level.
Having 2 classes has never worked out for any Society.
People that are only for number one all the time and don't believe in compassion for their own people are are barbarians.
Sad to say Z, but if there were 2 classes ( Oligarchs and Surfs) You'd be just a surf. Everyone on this site with the Exception of a Couple would be in the Surf class.
I'm a strong supporter of a Strong middle class, a small poor class and a small rich class.
Take that shit to the bank troll.

DrOiD BioNiC EF App!

Serf...
 
Bruce Williams has a financial show on the radio (or he used to).

He decided in his 20's he wanted to be a millionaire. He worked a full time job to support himself and drove a cab at night.

He taught himself finance and invested the money he made from driving a cab until he was a millionaire.

Nobody wants to believe it's a choice but Bruce Williams proved it is. He worked his ass off and took advantage of the resources available (public library) to educate himself. That was even before the internet.
 
Lol, he negated a legit response.
I think he's still waiting on the google of Oligarchy.

And yes.... You're still the Village Idiot. Right above JG and below Typo.

DrOiD BioNiC EF App!
 
Lol, he negated a legit response.
I think he's still waiting on the google of Oligarchy.

And yes.... You're still the Village Idiot. Right above JG and below Typo.

DrOiD BioNiC EF App!

You probably should've went to google for the the definition of "surf" and "serf" before you used it multiple times.
 
Mrs. Romney could teach us all a thing or two about hard work.
From the Republi-con convention, she talked about her "humble beginnings" and said:

“Mitt Romney was never handed success.”
and
“We got married and moved into a basement apartment,” Ann Romney said. “We walked to class together, shared the housekeeping and ate a lot of pasta and tuna fish.”

But she didn't say what she happened to reveal in a 1994 interview:

Neither one of us had a job, because Mitt had enough of an investment from stock that we could sell off a little at a time,” she said in a 1994 interview with Jack Thomas of The Boston Globe, when Mitt was running for a Senate seat.

Also, in her 1994 interview, she said that the house they bought together in Boston for $42,000, thanks to a loan from Mitt’s father, cost less to pay the mortgage for than it did to rent. They sold it for $90,000 seven years later.

“So we not only stayed for free, we made money,” Ann Romney said to Thomas. “We had no income except the stock we were chipping away at. We were living on the edge, not entertaining.”

Then she summed up:
“the funny thing is that I never expected help.”

Never expected help! Rich kids who had help their whole whole lives. She obviously doesn't have a clue what real people go through.

Working people need more lectures about "hard work" from the rich and spoiled like Ann Romney.
 
Wish my house was worth double what I bought it for :( Still owe $82k on it, similar houses around us are currently selling for $75k - $100k.
 
Bruce Williams has a financial show on the radio (or he used to).

He decided in his 20's he wanted to be a millionaire. He worked a full time job to support himself and drove a cab at night.

He taught himself finance and invested the money he made from driving a cab until he was a millionaire.

Nobody wants to believe it's a choice but Bruce Williams proved it is. He worked his ass off and took advantage of the resources available (public library) to educate himself. That was even before the internet.

unpossible!!!

That can't happen here! Not anymore anyway!
 
Mrs. Romney could teach us all a thing or two about hard work.
From the Republi-con convention, she talked about her "humble beginnings" and said:

“Mitt Romney was never handed success.”
and
“We got married and moved into a basement apartment,” Ann Romney said. “We walked to class together, shared the housekeeping and ate a lot of pasta and tuna fish.”

But she didn't say what she happened to reveal in a 1994 interview:

Neither one of us had a job, because Mitt had enough of an investment from stock that we could sell off a little at a time,” she said in a 1994 interview with Jack Thomas of The Boston Globe, when Mitt was running for a Senate seat.

Also, in her 1994 interview, she said that the house they bought together in Boston for $42,000, thanks to a loan from Mitt’s father, cost less to pay the mortgage for than it did to rent. They sold it for $90,000 seven years later.

“So we not only stayed for free, we made money,” Ann Romney said to Thomas. “We had no income except the stock we were chipping away at. We were living on the edge, not entertaining.”

Then she summed up:
“the funny thing is that I never expected help.”

Never expected help! Rich kids who had help their whole whole lives. She obviously doesn't have a clue what real people go through.

Working people need more lectures about "hard work" from the rich and spoiled like Ann Romney.


This is what irritates the dogshit out of me about these Romney people...nobody cares that you were wealthy, what people care about is that you act like you've been given no breaks and then hold everyone to that higher standard that you yourself don't quite measure up to. Think Rommo's dad wasn't instrumental in getting him breaks? Please. This country is the most nepotistic place that has ever existed on the planet and yes that includes the good ole Roman empire. Of course Romney got a shit ton of breaks that had nothing to do with his own personal gumption and more with who he was and who he knew. Fine...but don't ask to be president of the U.S if you A) don't acknowledge that fact and B) don't feel the need to govern in ways that aim to help other people who have the same if not more work ethic than you do.

Obama was 100% dead on the money when he said if you built a business from the ground up you absolutely positively benefited from the business infrastructure in this country that was built by the (gasp) "collective". And the need to upkeep that infrastructure so that business's here can continue to thrive is one of the fundamental tenants of govt. If govt doesn't at least do that then why do we have govt at all?
 
Ann Romney said to Thomas. “We had no income except the stock we were chipping away at. We were living on the edge, not entertaining.”
Y'know, I just noticed that quote and what she was saying just sunk in. Somebody really ought to clue in the nice lady what "living on the edge" really means. It doesn't mean daddy in law gives you a house downpayment and you have to tap into your investments (INVESTMENT!) Living on the edge means you can't afford to buy a pint of milk and a stick of butter to make Kraft macaroni the right way. Tuna!? That shit is a fucking luxury.

Not being able to afford to buy clothes at Goodwill, shoplifting school supplies, dumpster diving out of necessity -- that's living on the fucking edge.
 
Y'know, I just noticed that quote and what she was saying just sunk in. Somebody really ought to clue in the nice lady what "living on the edge" really means. It doesn't mean daddy in law gives you a house downpayment and you have to tap into your investments (INVESTMENT!) Living on the edge means you can't afford to buy a pint of milk and a stick of butter to make Kraft macaroni the right way. Tuna!? That shit is a fucking luxury.

Not being able to afford to buy clothes at Goodwill, shoplifting school supplies, dumpster diving out of necessity -- that's living on the fucking edge.

Well said
 
This is what irritates the dogshit out of me about these Romney people...nobody cares that you were wealthy, what people care about is that you act like you've been given no breaks and then hold everyone to that higher standard that you yourself don't quite measure up to. Think Rommo's dad wasn't instrumental in getting him breaks? Please. This country is the most nepotistic place that has ever existed on the planet and yes that includes the good ole Roman empire. Of course Romney got a shit ton of breaks that had nothing to do with his own personal gumption and more with who he was and who he knew. Fine...but don't ask to be president of the U.S if you A) don't acknowledge that fact and B) don't feel the need to govern in ways that aim to help other people who have the same if not more work ethic than you do.

Obama was 100% dead on the money when he said if you built a business from the ground up you absolutely positively benefited from the business infrastructure in this country that was built by the (gasp) "collective". And the need to upkeep that infrastructure so that business's here can continue to thrive is one of the fundamental tenants of govt. If govt doesn't at least do that then why do we have govt at all?

That irritates me about Obama supporters too. Barry attended private schools his entire life but wants to maintain the public school system for all the serfs.

If you assume people are too stupid to manage their lives then you have to ask the basic question, "Who is not educating the people?"

Barry's logic is flawed because he assumes that cooperation at gunpoint is cooperation, it's coercion and not cooperation. The free market works without a dictator because people cooperate by nature, government is a parasite claiming its violence benefits society.
 
Well said

Right, because we really want the leader of the free world to have been an idiot with his finances and to not have planned ahead for rough times.

Do you have enough in savings to hold you over for a rough patch? If you do, are you willing to give it up to people you don't know just so you can feel like they do every day?
 
Negative. It's the responsibility of Humans in a Society to keep the society at a certain level.
Having 2 classes has never worked out for any Society.
People that are only for number one all the time and don't believe in compassion for their own people are are barbarians.
Sad to say Z, but if there were 2 classes ( Oligarchs and Surfs) You'd be just a surf. Everyone on this site with the Exception of a Couple would be in the Surf class.
I'm a strong supporter of a Strong middle class, a small poor class and a small rich class.
Take that shit to the bank troll.

DrOiD BioNiC EF App!

So you believe in personal responsibility. Conservative?
 
Barry's logic is flawed because he assumes that cooperation at gunpoint is cooperation, it's coercion and not cooperation. The free market works without a dictator because people cooperate by nature, government is a parasite claiming its violence benefits society.

waaaah government intervention is sooooo evil. let's abolish laws against murder, theft, and fraud. let's dissolve our military. let's allow all our roads and highways to go to shit. nobody better tell me what to do. who needs an entity with the authority to create and enforce rules and policy, when all 300 million of us can just pow-wow together and work shit out amongst ourselves?

i think we should all be free to do whatever we want. unless we want to establish a government, in which case we shouldn't do that. because government is a parasite!
 
Right, because we really want the leader of the free world to have been an idiot with his finances and to not have planned ahead for rough times.

Do you have enough in savings to hold you over for a rough patch? If you do, are you willing to give it up to people you don't know just so you can feel like they do every day?
I was born into a welfare household and my main point is that it's damned tough to get out of that situation when that's your starting point. You can't save any money when you run out of it before the end of the month just paying for the barest of necessities.

My household income currently puts us at the lower end of what is classified as "lower middle class" (when I could still work we were in the middle of that class). We are currently living paycheck to paycheck. We have exactly one month of expenses in savings and that was hard earned. We cannot save for any type of investments, including retirement. Our only asset, a house I've owned for 22 years (which I refinanced in 2003 to remove my ex husband, a decision we made thinking we could easily make up through the natural course of real estate appreciation) is worth LESS than what I originally bought it for. LESS after 22 years! That happened when GW was in office. Before the crash houses similar to mine were selling for $150k and up. Now it's basically half that.

And we do not spend frivolously. We replaced our last vehicle when it hit 250k in miles and needed over $7k in repairs with a used car. We don't own even one flat screen t.v. We don't take expensive vacations or eat out or buy new clothes until the ones we have are rags. We have, however, had significant medical and dental expenses over the past two years which have all been straight out of pocket. So if I was willing to let my husband walk around with three teeth missing, my stepdaughter to live with two impacted wisdom teeth and 10 cavities, and me to give up the use of both of my arms we would have an extra $16,000 to our names.

Living paycheck to paycheck is not always because you're impulsive, lazy and lack foresight. Being on welfare is not always a choice, either. And I'm sorry, but when you're in your late 40s or 50s, working two jobs isn't usually physically possible or practical. You just don't have the physical stamina you have when you're in you're 20 years younger.

People like the Romney's DON'T GET IT. "Borrow from your family?!" WTF is that? When my mother finally was able to find a job that paid enough so she could get off welfare she rode public until she could afford a very used car to find better work. That work eventually turned out to be cleaning houses by day and offices by night and that's what she did until she died, six days a week, without benefits or paid time off. Her only investment was the house, which I had bought with her, and you already know what's happened to that. I guess it's a good thing she is dead, she'd be 76 now, I don't think she could have kept up that work schedule these days so my husband and I would be supporting her as well as my stepdaughter.

Mitt Romney and everyone who thinks like him - that you're only poor because you're lazy and frivolous - can kiss my lily white fat ass. Walk in my shoes for a year mutherfuckers, then tell me how easy it is.
 
I was born into a welfare household and my main point is that it's damned tough to get out of that situation when that's your starting point. You can't save any money when you run out of it before the end of the month just paying for the barest of necessities.

My household income currently puts us at the lower end of what is classified as "lower middle class" (when I could still work we were in the middle of that class). We are currently living paycheck to paycheck. We have exactly one month of expenses in savings and that was hard earned. We cannot save for any type of investments, including retirement. Our only asset, a house I've owned for 22 years (which I refinanced in 2003 to remove my ex husband, a decision we made thinking we could easily make up through the natural course of real estate appreciation) is worth LESS than what I originally bought it for. LESS after 22 years! That happened when GW was in office. Before the crash houses similar to mine were selling for $150k and up. Now it's basically half that.

And we do not spend frivolously. We replaced our last vehicle when it hit 250k in miles and needed over $7k in repairs with a used car. We don't own even one flat screen t.v. We don't take expensive vacations or eat out or buy new clothes until the ones we have are rags. We have, however, had significant medical and dental expenses over the past two years which have all been straight out of pocket. So if I was willing to let my husband walk around with three teeth missing, my stepdaughter to live with two impacted wisdom teeth and 10 cavities, and me to give up the use of both of my arms we would have an extra $16,000 to our names.

Living paycheck to paycheck is not always because you're impulsive, lazy and lack foresight. Being on welfare is not always a choice, either. And I'm sorry, but when you're in your late 40s or 50s, working two jobs isn't usually physically possible or practical. You just don't have the physical stamina you have when you're in you're 20 years younger.

People like the Romney's DON'T GET IT. "Borrow from your family?!" WTF is that? When my mother finally was able to find a job that paid enough so she could get off welfare she rode public until she could afford a very used car to find better work. That work eventually turned out to be cleaning houses by day and offices by night and that's what she did until she died, six days a week, without benefits or paid time off. Her only investment was the house, which I had bought with her, and you already know what's happened to that. I guess it's a good thing she is dead, she'd be 76 now, I don't think she could have kept up that work schedule these days so my husband and I would be supporting her as well as my stepdaughter.

Mitt Romney and everyone who thinks like him - that you're only poor because you're lazy and frivolous - can kiss my lily white fat ass. Walk in my shoes for a year mutherfuckers, then tell me how easy it is.

So you just hate on wealthy people because of your situation. I can't identify with a damn thing you just said aside from being broke here and there. So many people think they're so unique and special because they've had rough patches in life. If you're in a bad situation, change it.
 
So you just hate on wealthy people because of your situation. I can't identify with a damn thing you just said aside from being broke here and there. So many people think they're so unique and special because they've had rough patches in life. If you're in a bad situation, change it.

The point you should be getting from musclemom, is that Romney just doesn't connect with people.
Not surprising. It's what Republicans have said about him all along, until every other Republican choice self destructed, and now you are all trying to like this extraordinarly unlikable character. A tough spot.
 
The point you should be getting from musclemom, is that Romney just doesn't connect with people.
Not surprising. It's what Republicans have said about him all along, until every other Republican choice self destructed, and now you are all trying to like this extraordinarly unlikable character. A tough spot.

I don't like either candidate, but what I got from MM's post is that haters gonna hate.
 
So you just hate on wealthy people because of your situation.
No, no, NO! Are you purposely being thick?! I don't hate on rich people, I RESENT being told in one sentence "Oh, I totally understand your problems" and in the next breath "Set goals, work hard and you can be anything you want to be no matter what your life circumstances" because it's not fucking true. A person who wants to hold public office, to be a representative OF the people, needs to take the needs of ALL people into consideration. If they can't relate to the problems of a certain sector, they FIND someone who can understand and explain the real facts of those problems TO them. Not brush them off with some unconsidered, nonchalant sound bite.

I can't identify with a damn thing you just said aside from being broke here and there. So many people think they're so unique and special because they've had rough patches in life. If you're in a bad situation, change it.
Wait a minute, is my memory totally fubar or is this coming from a guy who accepted donations to pay for his legal fees? Yet you can't relate to anything I have to say?

If there were other ways we could get out of this situation don't you think we'd be working on that? We're stuck between a rock and a hard place and time is working against us, all we can do is try to pay down our debts and figure out where to live when we abandon our worthless house. Little FYI, try not to develop debilitating chronic health problems or need expensive medical procedures at the same time you discover your adult child has disabilities when you're nearly 60.

Oh, and be grateful you got custody of that child instead of being saddled with $14,000 a year child support for eight years during the time when you should have been putting that money into retirement and investments.

One other thing, considering your income is probably a lot closer to my household's (even if it's double, it's still closer than $250 million) and you can't relate to anything I said, how the HELL can the son of a governor who has never, ever known what it's like to be financially desperate understand people like me? No wonder he says shit that sounds so damned inconsiderate to a whole lot of people who don't clear six figures a year.
 
I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that can relate to your exact situation. Yeah my finances are fucked compared to what they used to be, and for a while they were really fucked while I looked for something more stable. I never resented anyone because they were successful or just dismissed their opinion because they couldn't relate to my situation. I could always learn from them.

Sorry, but it seems like you've had the same issues for years now and nothing has been done to change them (from what I've actually read).
 
Sorry, but it seems like you've had the same issues for years now and nothing has been done to change them (from what I've actually read).
The past two years have been the worst, my health went south and I've had to quit working, so yeah, I imagine that would seem like a long time. And you're right, we haven't been able to change anything but it's because we simply can't. I can't work until I'm done rehab, my husband can't get a better job, not at his age and not in his field, it doesn't exist. Plus we've gotten blindsided by some expensive shit. Being closer to 60 than 20, not knowing what you're going to do, that's scary and frightened animals lash out.

I actually started getting furious when my house became worthless, so that's what, end of 2008? I just felt so damned screwed over. It's hard to let go of being robbed of about $50,000 because of something I barely understand. And when people who are well to do say we're just not trying hard enough, but there are no more notches left on the belt, figuratively speaking, it's a bitter pill.
 
Fucked if I know why it matters but I'm going to try to explain myself briefly, JNev.

Try it this way, in America all you need to do is be willing to work hard and you can make it, right? I already told you, I grew up on welfare, no college. I married too young and got pregnant immediately. But over time, me working nights, ex working days, then me working full time and keeping the part time job, the ex and I had made it to lower middle class. We bought a house within our means. We played the game, paid our dues and did EXACTLY what the powers that be say poor people are supposed to do to "Achieve the American Dream" and if whoever hadn't played games with other people's money and the economy hadn't gone tits up, I'd be content, my course was laid out. Not everyone needs to be rich, I just don't want to be scared. The basics with a little comfort, that's all I ever wanted. A simple life.

I played the game as the rules were set out, and now at a time when I should be able to relax a little I'm back to ground zero facing 50 and the 1%ers say "we all need to make sacrifices." I made mine already and scrubbing toilets at night to make extra money isn't an option any more. I climbed up from the bottom of the pit and got kicked back in through no fault of my own. And mine is just one story, there are thousands, if not millions, out there with different stories, but the same or worse results.

Sorry if my rants waste your, or anyone else's, time. I guess since I can't afford a real therapist I vent here.
 
Fucked if I know why it matters but I'm going to try to explain myself briefly, JNev.

Try it this way, in America all you need to do is be willing to work hard and you can make it, right? I already told you, I grew up on welfare, no college. I married too young and got pregnant immediately. But over time, me working nights, ex working days, then me working full time and keeping the part time job, the ex and I had made it to lower middle class. We bought a house within our means. We played the game, paid our dues and did EXACTLY what the powers that be say poor people are supposed to do to "Achieve the American Dream" and if whoever hadn't played games with other people's money and the economy hadn't gone tits up, I'd be content, my course was laid out. Not everyone needs to be rich, I just don't want to be scared. The basics with a little comfort, that's all I ever wanted. A simple life.

I played the game as the rules were set out, and now at a time when I should be able to relax a little I'm back to ground zero facing 50 and the 1%ers say "we all need to make sacrifices." I made mine already and scrubbing toilets at night to make extra money isn't an option any more. I climbed up from the bottom of the pit and got kicked back in through no fault of my own. And mine is just one story, there are thousands, if not millions, out there with different stories, but the same or worse results.

Sorry if my rants waste your, or anyone else's, time. I guess since I can't afford a real therapist I vent here.
I call it the myth of Horatio Algers.
 
I call it the myth of Horatio Algers.
I actually had to look that up. Never was one for Victorian era writing. Interesting, I never really thought about the source of the "work hard and you can succeed no matter what your origins" ethos. 1800s fiction that fed false hope in the hearts of industrial era working class. Like religion, teach people to fear and strive to get out of poverty (hell) and dangle the virtually unachievable hope of financial success (heaven).
 
You can work hard banging your head against a brick wall but you wont get ahead. Gotta think, work smart AND hard
 
You can work hard banging your head against a brick wall but you wont get ahead. Gotta think, work smart AND hard
Maybe sometimes you just need to let go of cultural paradigms entirely and figure out what you really need to be content in life is a better answer for some people. The trick is to figure out what will make you content with the least amount of effort.
 
The idea that people who don't make much money aren't making much because they aren't working hard enough has always irked me, but I don't think she's saying that. Plenty of people don't make much doing something they love....they slave at a job that completes them at the end of the day. But they don't bitch about the fact that they aren't rich doing it.

Even in my own field I know several people who left high paying careers to be poor and follow their heart. But they are content in that path.

In more general terms, she's saying if you don't like the way your life is going, instead of bitching about it, make the changes and do the work to get it where you want to be. I don't think anyone can be a millionaire, though, but not because of where they started. For some people, the path is going to be easier - inherited money, a natural gift for entrepreneurship, high level of intelligence and inovativeness. But not everyone is made for that kind of thing. Some people were born with the right skill set and mind frame to create and build their own success or climb to the top of an industry that has high pay potential and some people were born with the right skill set and mind frame to be the perfect worker bees. And some people are just lazy.

TL,DR: I think anyone can change their circumstances for the better with smart, hard work, but not everyone is going to have the intellectual and mental capability to take it to a point of being wealthy.
 
That's the spirit :rolleyes:
I'm not being snotty here, but really Zwhit, how old are you? I really want to know. You have your birthday but not year in your profile and if that's you in your profile picture you could be anywhere from mid 20s to late 30s.
 
I'm not being snotty here, but really Zwhit, how old are you? I really want to know. You have your birthday but not year in your profile and if that's you in your profile picture you could be anywhere from mid 20s to late 30s.

26 in a few days. Why do you ask?

Your last few posts don't sound like you've done a whole lot to better your situation. Maybe I'm taking it the wrong way. From what you've described, it sounds like you've had a rough go the last few years, but the last few posts don't help you're case.

I don't mean to attack you personally , but that attitude is what really bothers me. Is it really that hard to see why someone who works pretty damn hard resents the mass amount of people who get comfortable living on welfare?
 
I'm not being snotty here, but really Zwhit, how old are you? I really want to know. You have your birthday but not year in your profile and if that's you in your profile picture you could be anywhere from mid 20s to late 30s.
Nevermind, I searched your posts, you're about to turn 26? You are one year younger than my son. When I was your age I was working a full time job, a part time job, and had a 7 year old son. I felt and looked great, had boundless energy and a lot of hope for the future. I'm now 21 years older than you and I cannot emphasize enough how much shit changes health wise and psychologically from when you're 20 something versus 40 something. I assure you, I have more than earned the privilege to find an easy solution to live out my days with the least amount of stress.
 
Nevermind, I searched your posts, you're about to turn 26? You are one year younger than my son. When I was your age I was working a full time job, a part time job, and had a 7 year old son. I felt and looked great, had boundless energy and a lot of hope for the future. I'm now 21 years older than you and I cannot emphasize enough how much shit when you're 20 something versus 40 something. I assure you, I have more than earned the privilege to find an easy solution to live out my days with the least amount of stress.

I was expecting you to tell me how I'm young and dumb/naive. Thanks :)
 
I was expecting you to tell me how I'm young and dumb/naive. Thanks :)
although you did, pretty much.
Not at all!!! Don't misunderstand me, please. You are young chronologically, and you yourself can't appreciate how young you are now because it's like being at the beginning of a roller coaster ride (and it's your ride), but I am in no way calling you naive or dumb. When I was 26 I was an adult, making adult decisions (as I said, I was a wife, a mother, a homeowner), some good, some bad, some life changing.

I'm merely saying that your perspective now (and your body, too) will change in 21 years. In fact, the change in some ways will be almost as dramatic as it was from when you were 5 years old to the point where you are now, if that makes sense.

The harsh truth is when you're older you get tired easier, you discover aches and pains become daily friends, you don't recover emotionally or physically from the whims of the world with a good nights sleep, taking chances gets scarier, shocks are more deeply felt, the costs become higher to take chances and to risk failure, and starting over from ground zero at my age becomes a nearly insurmountable task :whatever:
 
-SD- you have nothing you worthless piece of shit!

Now stop bombing me every single day! Every day I get an email telling me you bombed me again!
 
-SD- you have nothing you worthless piece of shit!

Now stop bombing me every single day! Every day I get an email telling me you bombed me again!

We appreciate SD bombing you on a daily basis. It ensures you are blacked out and we don't have to read your useless post unless we choose to.
 
Yeah, it's just a big blacked out box that say's "owned by the platinum members". We need to highlight your post or quote it in order to see anything.
 
Dropped a fresh bomb for the night shift

That's two in one day? Surely there is a limit?
Or do you have an endless amount of bombs?

This bomb, blacked out and karma shit is pissing me off. I come here to talk shit if I wanted to play games I'd buy a playstation.

Where do I buy bombs and how much would it cost to black out SD?
 
That's two in one day? Surely there is a limit?
Or do you have an endless amount of bombs?

This bomb, blacked out and karma shit is pissing me off. I come here to talk shit if I wanted to play games I'd buy a playstation.

Where do I buy bombs and how much would it cost to black out SD?

You need green karma in order to bomb people, and all the karma rich people have hit you with enough red k to ensure you can't bomb back.
 
The idea that people who don't make much money aren't making much because they aren't working hard enough has always irked me, but I don't think she's saying that. Plenty of people don't make much doing something they love....they slave at a job that completes them at the end of the day. But they don't bitch about the fact that they aren't rich doing it.

Even in my own field I know several people who left high paying careers to be poor and follow their heart. But they are content in that path.

In more general terms, she's saying if you don't like the way your life is going, instead of bitching about it, make the changes and do the work to get it where you want to be. I don't think anyone can be a millionaire, though, but not because of where they started. For some people, the path is going to be easier - inherited money, a natural gift for entrepreneurship, high level of intelligence and inovativeness. But not everyone is made for that kind of thing. Some people were born with the right skill set and mind frame to create and build their own success or climb to the top of an industry that has high pay potential and some people were born with the right skill set and mind frame to be the perfect worker bees. And some people are just lazy.

TL,DR: I think anyone can change their circumstances for the better with smart, hard work, but not everyone is going to have the intellectual and mental capability to take it to a point of being wealthy.

Define wealthy, I know chuck has tried to exempt people in Manhattan from falling under the 250k a year cap because a teacher married to a firefighter could be considered part of the evil rich.

Wealthy people that gained their wealth without government subsidies got wealthy because they were able to provide goods and services at a price people were willing to pay; Both parties benefited because the consumer valued the dollar less than they valued what they were purchasing.

There is data showing constant class mobility, most people born in the lower 20% will move up and most of those born into the top 20% will move down.

People have preferences that change during the course of life; There is no "class system" in the market; There is a political class system.
 
Define wealthy, I know chuck has tried to exempt people in Manhattan from falling under the 250k a year cap because a teacher married to a firefighter could be considered part of the evil rich.

Wealthy people that gained their wealth without government subsidies got wealthy because they were able to provide goods and services at a price people were willing to pay; Both parties benefited because the consumer valued the dollar less than they valued what they were purchasing.

There is data showing constant class mobility, most people born in the lower 20% will move up and most of those born into the top 20% will move down.

People have preferences that change during the course of life; There is no "class system" in the market; There is a political class system.

if you don't think it's easier to make money when you have money, and to be more successful when you come from money, then you are clueless as to how the world works. I'd love to see your data that shows most people born in the lower 20% will move up
 
if you don't think it's easier to make money when you have money, and to be more successful when you come from money, then you are clueless as to how the world works. I'd love to see your data that shows most people born in the lower 20% will move up
He's gonna Quote or YouTube the Heritage Foundation Nimbarooni.
 
if you don't think it's easier to make money when you have money, and to be more successful when you come from money, then you are clueless as to how the world works. I'd love to see your data that shows most people born in the lower 20% will move up

Sure, if I have a trust fund worth millions and the same ability as someone born with nothing then I would win the race to wealth because I started wealthy.
http://www.pewstates.org/uploadedFiles/PCS_Assets/2012/Pursuing_American_Dream.pdf

84% of Americans exceed their parents income at the same age.

I can list businessmen that created massive wealth and grew up in poverty or middle class without massive government regulation.
Hell, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates didn't grow up in wealth and inherit it; The IT industry is the lowest regulated industry.

Carnegie...
Rockefeller...
Vanderbilt...
 
Sure, if I have a trust fund worth millions and the same ability as someone born with nothing then I would win the race to wealth because I started wealthy.
http://www.pewstates.org/uploadedFiles/PCS_Assets/2012/Pursuing_American_Dream.pdf

84% of Americans exceed their parents income at the same age.

I can list businessmen that created massive wealth and grew up in poverty or middle class without massive government regulation.
Hell, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates didn't grow up in wealth and inherit it; The IT industry is the lowest regulated industry.

Carnegie...
Rockefeller...
Vanderbilt...

my argument is not about starting at a higher level of wealth as a baseline. it's based on the fact that children from wealthier households have advantages developmentally and in terms of access to education. children from impoverished households may never reach their potential due to poor nutrition and exposure to toxins. children from wealthier households do not have to balance school with work/household management like poor children do, will usually attend better public schools, and are able to afford better college educations. Therefore it is much easier for them to increase their human capital by the time they are in the workforce

furthermore, people from wealthier households are able to take bigger risks in pursuing wealth because they have a safety net, for example they can start businesses, stay out of the workforce while earning higher degrees, or remain unemployed longer while holding out for their dream jobs. meanwhile poorer people must choose the safe option even if it means less earnings, because they cant afford to be unemployed for any prolonged stretch of time, and failure in achieving their big dreams might mean destitution. richer people are also able to finance entrepreneurial ventures more easily and take bigger risks investing.
 
That's two in one day? Surely there is a limit?
Or do you have an endless amount of bombs?

This bomb, blacked out and karma shit is pissing me off. I come here to talk shit if I wanted to play games I'd buy a playstation.

Where do I buy bombs and how much would it cost to black out SD?
you mad?:theshadow
 
my argument is not about starting at a higher level of wealth as a baseline. it's based on the fact that children from wealthier households have advantages developmentally and in terms of access to education. children from impoverished households may never reach their potential due to poor nutrition and exposure to toxins. children from wealthier households do not have to balance school with work/household management like poor children do, will usually attend better public schools, and are able to afford better college educations. Therefore it is much easier for them to increase their human capital by the time they are in the workforce

furthermore, people from wealthier households are able to take bigger risks in pursuing wealth because they have a safety net, for example they can start businesses, stay out of the workforce while earning higher degrees, or remain unemployed longer while holding out for their dream jobs. meanwhile poorer people must choose the safe option even if it means less earnings, because they cant afford to be unemployed for any prolonged stretch of time, and failure in achieving their big dreams might mean destitution. richer people are also able to finance entrepreneurial ventures more easily and take bigger risks investing.

in pa? poor people can go to any damn public school that they want to...all they have to do is move...section 8 will pay for their housing (and there is section 8 housing everywhere), welfare will pay for their food and living expenses and other state programs guarantee them access to shit like cell phones and computers...poor people in pa have better access to technology than the middle class people that are picking up the tab. hell, we have state programs that will buy brand new, energy efficient appliances for our poor people.

and, for the record, none of these people are poor. poverty and obesity are mutually exclusive...and all of the poor people that i have contact with are fat...the adults are obese and the kids are just fat...oh and, they drink beer, smoke cigarettes and have tattoos...knot poor...knot by a damn sight.
 
That's two in one day? Surely there is a limit?
Or do you have an endless amount of bombs?

This bomb, blacked out and karma shit is pissing me off. I come here to talk shit if I wanted to play games I'd buy a playstation.

Where do I buy bombs and how much would it cost to black out SD?

Then I got more bombs than nicolas cage. You cant black me since Im COTB.
 
Wtf? You can't see my posts?

Is that what blacked out means?

did that just dawn on you dude? you can't be that retarded can you? i mean even someone with severe mental handicapping can see their blacked out posts and deduce that no one else can see them either...and someone with a few more IQ points than that can further deduce that's the whole point of "being bombed". That is the punitive damage...ffs what would otherwise be the point of these guys bombing you 24/7? I've logged in on sleepless nights at like 3 or 4am and you're still blocked, they've got you blanketed like a Journey cover band, just pack it up dude.
 
did that just dawn on you dude? you can't be that retarded can you? i mean even someone with severe mental handicapping can see their blacked out posts and deduce that no one else can see them either...and someone with a few more IQ points than that can further deduce that's the whole point of "being bombed". That is the punitive damage...ffs what would otherwise be the point of these guys bombing you 24/7? I've logged in on sleepless nights at like 3 or 4am and you're still blocked, they've got you blanketed like a Journey cover band, just pack it up dude.

Or I could be using the app which doesn't show blacked out people or karma/ bombs, not even to the mentally handicapped.

Otherwise, nice post.
 
my argument is not about starting at a higher level of wealth as a baseline. it's based on the fact that children from wealthier households have advantages developmentally and in terms of access to education. children from impoverished households may never reach their potential due to poor nutrition and exposure to toxins. children from wealthier households do not have to balance school with work/household management like poor children do, will usually attend better public schools, and are able to afford better college educations. Therefore it is much easier for them to increase their human capital by the time they are in the workforce

furthermore, people from wealthier households are able to take bigger risks in pursuing wealth because they have a safety net, for example they can start businesses, stay out of the workforce while earning higher degrees, or remain unemployed longer while holding out for their dream jobs. meanwhile poorer people must choose the safe option even if it means less earnings, because they cant afford to be unemployed for any prolonged stretch of time, and failure in achieving their big dreams might mean destitution. richer people are also able to finance entrepreneurial ventures more easily and take bigger risks investing.


But there's still another vital point to make; the larger the disadvantage a kid starts out with, the greater probability he/she will be forged into a better leader than the privileged kid ever would at a similar level. Experience and hardships build more intangible strengths, and those are what is needed for long-run success in life.

Call it karma if you want, but more often than not it seems the more someone is just given something, the more likely they are to fuck it up. Same echoes true for our current entitlement-minded society we've been increasingly nurturing. That fruit will likely spoil before its time.
 
But there's still another vital point to make; the larger the disadvantage a kid starts out with, the greater probability he/she will be forged into a better leader than the privileged kid ever would at a similar level. Experience and hardships build more intangible strengths, and those are what is needed for long-run success in life.

Call it karma if you want, but more often than not it seems the more someone is just given something, the more likely they are to fuck it up. Same echoes true for our current entitlement-minded society we've been increasingly nurturing. That fruit will likely spoil before its time.

that makes for a cute story in the movies, but in reality inadequate access health care, nutrition, and education more often than not severely hinders the ability of most poor people to become productive and successful members of society. condemning millions to a life of destitution because it "builds character"is extremely counterproductive

you are right about your second paragraph though. but access to healthcare and education are not "spoiling" poor people or encouraging them to stay poor
 
my argument is not about starting at a higher level of wealth as a baseline. it's based on the fact that children from wealthier households have advantages developmentally and in terms of access to education. children from impoverished households may never reach their potential due to poor nutrition and exposure to toxins. children from wealthier households do not have to balance school with work/household management like poor children do, will usually attend better public schools, and are able to afford better college educations. Therefore it is much easier for them to increase their human capital by the time they are in the workforce

furthermore, people from wealthier households are able to take bigger risks in pursuing wealth because they have a safety net, for example they can start businesses, stay out of the workforce while earning higher degrees, or remain unemployed longer while holding out for their dream jobs. meanwhile poorer people must choose the safe option even if it means less earnings, because they cant afford to be unemployed for any prolonged stretch of time, and failure in achieving their big dreams might mean destitution. richer people are also able to finance entrepreneurial ventures more easily and take bigger risks investing.

Who is educating these poor people?

Why do they lack basic job skills and a basic understanding of the entrepreneurial process?

My response is the primary educational system still follows the 19th century Prussian system that focused on fostering nationalism and creating low skilled workers and bureaucrats to support the state.
 
Who is educating these poor people?

Why do they lack basic job skills and a basic understanding of the entrepreneurial process?

My response is the primary educational system still follows the 19th century Prussian system that focused on fostering nationalism and creating low skilled workers and bureaucrats to support the state.

my response is no it doesn't, and high school students take classes such biology, chemistry, technical writing, physics, math, and computer science that give them a solid base of knowledge, teach them to think critically, and prepare them for higher education.
 
Or I could be using the app which doesn't show blacked out people or karma/ bombs, not even to the mentally handicapped.

Otherwise, nice post.


ahhh, so that's why noobinses couldn't figure out what being bombed meant...cause the app isn't on board with the bombs. Ok, I apologize for my earlier acrimonious incredulousness.
 
Sure, if I have a trust fund worth millions and the same ability as someone born with nothing then I would win the race to wealth because I started wealthy.
http://www.pewstates.org/uploadedFiles/PCS_Assets/2012/Pursuing_American_Dream.pdf

84% of Americans exceed their parents income at the same age.

I can list businessmen that created massive wealth and grew up in poverty or middle class without massive government regulation.
Hell, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates didn't grow up in wealth and inherit it; The IT industry is the lowest regulated industry.

Carnegie...
Rockefeller...
Vanderbilt...


does the IT industry really need to be regulated java? sure simple basic consumer protections apply but otherwise is there a huge potential for products emanating from the IT sector to do massive damage to, say, our environment? Let us say draw a comparison between IT products and, say, natural gas drilling. Think there's a valid concern about the environment when gas companies a few years ago started free flowing the worlds worst chemicals into the ground? The "ONLY" reason these companies are just now beginning to "attempt" to clean up the fracking process, and i'm not sure they'll be able to, but the attempt of theirs to do so is not because of some overriding capitalist desire to do what's right....because that's a fairy tale. They're being forced to do so because environmental groups took a look at what they were doing and caught them red faced, then the govt had to step in.

I have absolutely zero confidence that zero regulation on this inudstry, just for example, would result in anything but the wholesale contamination of food and water supplies that would render parts of our country completely and uttery unliveable. But that's progress right?
 
that makes for a cute story in the movies, but in reality inadequate access health care, nutrition, and education more often than not severely hinders the ability of most poor people to become productive and successful members of society. condemning millions to a life of destitution because it "builds character"is extremely counterproductive

you are right about your second paragraph though. but access to healthcare and education are not "spoiling" poor people or encouraging them to stay poor


The problem is that without proper guidance, they more often than not will take these things for granted instead of appreciating them. They have to want to improve their situation. I've lost track of how many examples I've seen and heard over the years about lower class members that are just stuck in their delinquent lifestyles, making shitty choices because that's apparently all they know how to do.



If you want my honest opinion, our current pop culture society isn't doing any favors in the type of attitudes it influences in our youth. The fact that families are increasingly fractured and lawsuits threaten disciplinary action for delinquent kids doesn't help matters either.
 
does the IT industry really need to be regulated java? sure simple basic consumer protections apply but otherwise is there a huge potential for products emanating from the IT sector to do massive damage to, say, our environment? Let us say draw a comparison between IT products and, say, natural gas drilling. Think there's a valid concern about the environment when gas companies a few years ago started free flowing the worlds worst chemicals into the ground? The "ONLY" reason these companies are just now beginning to "attempt" to clean up the fracking process, and i'm not sure they'll be able to, but the attempt of theirs to do so is not because of some overriding capitalist desire to do what's right....because that's a fairy tale. They're being forced to do so because environmental groups took a look at what they were doing and caught them red faced, then the govt had to step in.

I have absolutely zero confidence that zero regulation on this inudstry, just for example, would result in anything but the wholesale contamination of food and water supplies that would render parts of our country completely and uttery unliveable. But that's progress right?


I agree whole-heartedly there. Unfortunately human beings (especially in large groups) too often get stupid and greedy, letting their standards slide and cut corners to save a buck. This goes back to the whole intangible qualities thing. What makes one person have high moral obligations while another shits all over them?
 
does the IT industry really need to be regulated java? sure simple basic consumer protections apply but otherwise is there a huge potential for products emanating from the IT sector to do massive damage to, say, our environment? Let us say draw a comparison between IT products and, say, natural gas drilling. Think there's a valid concern about the environment when gas companies a few years ago started free flowing the worlds worst chemicals into the ground? The "ONLY" reason these companies are just now beginning to "attempt" to clean up the fracking process, and i'm not sure they'll be able to, but the attempt of theirs to do so is not because of some overriding capitalist desire to do what's right....because that's a fairy tale. They're being forced to do so because environmental groups took a look at what they were doing and caught them red faced, then the govt had to step in.

I have absolutely zero confidence that zero regulation on this inudstry, just for example, would result in anything but the wholesale contamination of food and water supplies that would render parts of our country completely and uttery unliveable. But that's progress right?

Google search.

The environmental impact.

Google?s Footprint: The Environmental Impact of Internet Searches - Environmental Capital - WSJ

"The bigger issue is the environmental footprint of information technology in general, not the environmental impact of your furtive searches for the lowdown on “24.” The IT sector globally accounts for about 2% of greenhouse-gas emissions, not far behind commercial aviation, long the target of environmental campaigners. "
 
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