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23 Y.O. 65kg First cycle advice

L

l2play`

New member
Hey members of elitefitness!

I've been a long time lurker on these forums and have gained invaluable knowledge on aspects of training and nutrition. I won't waste your time on a longer introduction!

Training for 3 years, only supplementing with creatine and whey protein shakes. Nothing anabolic.

Currently
Height: 5'5,
Weight: 65kg
Bodyfat: 10-15%

I have read threads on what other people have taken for a first cycle, but would appreciate a more individualized response. Would this be a good starter cycle,
Test injectable + oral + PCT

Unfortunately I have suffered from mild gynecomastia due to puberty, would I be more prone to it getting worse?

Thanks in advance!
 
You been training for 3 years in your early 20s and still only weigh 143?

You either started out at a very light weight......around 110-115 or you have not been training or eating properly.

Either way you are not ready for anabolics. You will only achieve a enhanced performance of what you are able to do naturally. That beeing said If are not gaining any weight naturally what makes you think fucking with your hormones will?

Go to the diet and training forum and do more searching there first.
 
Appreciate your response,

Honestly legs have not been a priority in my workouts, and I'll be honest I haven't been working them out!!!
One key information i've missed is that I have pancreatitis, caused by hereditary factors. I was diagnosed at age 17 and am taking enzymes for the rest of my life. It's difficult to calculate exactly how much of the food I take is actually absorbed. This is an issue I will have to deal with for the rest of my life. Comparing with a healthy individual I'm already at a disadvantage whether I choose to use AAS or not. With an average lifespan of 44 or so years I don't mind cycling atleast once a year.

I do act on your responses and take them with great integrity, thank you!.
 
Texas your are absolutely right I did start at a weight close to 50, being diagnosed with a hereditary chronic illness its difficult to judge the time I have, and I wish to make the most of it!
 
l2play` said:
Appreciate your response,

Honestly legs have not been a priority in my workouts, and I'll be honest I haven't been working them out!!!!.
Click to expand...

yeah I know man. every skinny kid that comes on here who complains they can't gain don't work their legs. you won't grow leaves unless you grow a strong root and trunk.

so go out there and do it. shut your computer down and hit the gym.. i want you to do legs, legs, and more legs.
 
You can't drive a truck without the wheels my friend. Squats, deads, leg press and calves until you puke bro.

Just don't do leg extensions

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness
 
i think a good plan for you right now is to use some natural test boosters and go on a bulking diet to try to pack on some size. NTBM, one of this sites sponsors has many top of the line test support supps. Start hitting the legs, eating big, and in 2-3 months maybe you will be ready.
 
I appreciate your response very much! I do have chronic pancreatitis for the rest of my life, being 23 this factors into whether I use AAS or not. But I really do appreciate your response! thank you!
I'll simplify this disease, I have the hereditary version, means I have to take digestive enzymes to absorb the food i eat for the rest of my life. Unfortunately my risk of cancer increases depending on the years I live. Being 23 I don't think its a terrible idea to use AAS before I'm at my natural potential.
The older i get the greater chance I have of cancer. If I cycle once a year or twice according to my goals is it really such a bad idea?
Once again thanks for your responses!
 
Take some external digestive enzymes with meals and work legs like your life depended on it.

As steve said, every scrawny kid who comes here has the same story....they dont work their legs!!!!
 
Hey I am prescribed with digestive enzymes for the rest of my life, this disease will impact on the overall length of my life! In comparison with a normal individual I'm already at a disadvantage! I don't mind cycling steroids to come closer to my genetic potential. Your advice is appreciated but could you please post me a beginner cycle. Thank your for time in responding!
 
l2play` said:
Aren't these test booster's more harmful than actually using and inject able substance such as test?
Click to expand...

Nope.

They are all natural, whereas a synthetic substitute is not and will supress your natural production.

Read the sticky Steroids101 and put in a little research my bro, it will help you alot

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness
 
Bro forget AAS for the time being. As the guys here have already stated your to young and to light. Get your diet in check and train like your life depended on it (and yes that includes legs!).
 
Thank your for your reply!
I don't mean any disrespect for your responses, but please understand that my genetic condition is further altered by this disease. I have already located a source close to my vincinity and would very much appreciate substances that you would recommend for a first cycle. I do not wish to disrespect your invaluable experience when it comes to lifting! It's just that this condition does not make it any easier for me to achieve my workout goals!
Thanks for your time once again!
 
l2play` said:
Hey I am prescribed with digestive enzymes for the rest of my life, this disease will impact on the overall length of my life! In comparison with a normal individual I'm already at a disadvantage! I don't mind cycling steroids to come closer to my genetic potential. Your advice is appreciated but could you please post me a beginner cycle. Thank your for time in responding!
Click to expand...

every person on here has something wrong with them or an excuse. get your head out of your ass and stop making excuses.

we have a guy at my gym who is paralyzed from a drunk driver. i have become friends with him. its funny cause I was at the gym saturday afternoon and he was there.. then sunday morning he was there too.. he busts his ass in the gym and he cannot even walk. he practically lives in the gym.

if you don't workout steroids aren't gonna do a thing for you except add a little water weight, even a light cycle.
 
here is a good beginner cycle for you. make sure before you ever start a cycle, especially your first one that you read up and obtain as much information as you can.

1-12 Test Enanthate @ 250 mgs week
1-5 T-Bol @ 20 mgs ed

1-14 armidex .5 mg every other day
1-5 n2gaurd 1 serving per day
5-12 Hcgenerate 1 serving per day

pct
15-18 clomid 25 / 25 / 12.5 / 12.5
15-18 armidex .5 mg eod
15-18 post cycle / unleashed combo

at your size, if u decide to start a cycle, this is all you will need to get great results. its moderately dosed with a good kick start, and the gains you make should be fairly easy to keep. i would advice you to take a few months to put on some natural size before you start a cycle like this or any kind.
 
"stevsmi" your honest response is very much appreciated. The truth is I wish incorporate the use of AAS in a yearly workout routine. Is it really wrong to use AAS to reach my genetic potential whatever that maybe? Also cycling once/twice a year with time off and one, I'snt that my choice to make? Honestly your comments to deter me from AAS are appreciated for my well being. But I am 23 years old, (turning 24), I am diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis with a life expectancy of 44-55 years! Why not try to smartly cycle AAS!
 
"timetogethuge", Thank you very much for your response! I currently live in Australia and sources are hard to come by! I have take down your recommendations for a first cycle and am meeting my source tomorrow! I have never done a cycle of AAS or come in contact with someone who could supply me! Thank your very much for your recommendation I will definitely post a before and after of my cycle!
 
you're welcome. I can tell that you are very adamant about running a cycle and our advice to detour you away from them would most likely be disregarded. I'd still advice you to try to build more of a solid base naturally, especially in your lower body before you start. Make sure you do your research and learn as much as you can.
 
65 kg at 5'5 is not a horrible base, especially considering that you don't really work your legs. What we are recommending first before you cycle will only take a few months.. that's all.
 
I have the up most respect for your opinion. My conflicting perspective is that whats wrong with cycling to actually achieve my natural limit? Whether that be training my legs or whatever muscle is lacking? Factoring in my genetic potential and my overall life expectancy cycling steroids per year will help me achieve my natural limit faster? I am not a healthy normal individual I do suffer from a genetic condition, please take that into consideration!
 
i took it into consideration, that is why i gave you an example of a good cycle you could run. you will have much better results with gear if you build the base first. steroids is not something to rush into, and is not something that is going to work magic.
 
l2play` said:
I have the up most respect for your opinion. My conflicting perspective is that whats wrong with cycling to actually achieve my natural limit? Whether that be training my legs or whatever muscle is lacking? Factoring in my genetic potential and my overall life expectancy cycling steroids per year will help me achieve my natural limit faster? I am not a healthy normal individual I do suffer from a genetic condition, please take that into consideration!
Click to expand...

so you are just gonna train legs while you are on steroids?

what happens when you come off? they go back to looking like sticks?

if that is the case then why juice at all?

also hate to break it to you but it takes hours and hours and months and months of work in the gym to build up the legs. you don't build them up after a 10 week cycle and they magically keep growing after that.
 
Well I was expecting to gain mass on my legs whilst on a cycle. Then loosing most of my gains, expecting to maintain a X amount of muscle! I know that steroids help to gain muscles but are definitely not the end and be all! In comparison to being natural I would expect to maintain X amount of muscle whether It be legs or any other muscle. Key being consistent training and nutrition. If you guys would post a suitable first cycle and dosages that you would recommend It would much appreciated! Either way your concern for my overall well being is appreciated unfortunately were dealt different cards in this game of life :-(
 
Some people have to learn the hard way and open, your going to be one of them... this thread is pretty absurd from the jump... I know myself and many others main goal is the safety of others and making good decisions... then there's always someone who has NEVER ran anything and wants to come in telling us how it is... just don't come back upset when things get fucked up... your not being wise at all and anyone telling you its okay to run a cycle is not doing you anything but harm and its bullshit... you will learn

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using EliteFitness
 
Honestly your words feel very harsh! But your integrity is very much appreciated! If you could advise a potential first cycle with a pct atleast it would provide me with some advice! I would be more than happy to post how my progress has been despite being diagnosed with such a disease! I may not be able to thank your guys indivdually but do appreciate your response1
!1
 
im not gong to provide any cycles because me personally, I don't just give out cycles just because someone wants them... i am a trained professional man... i have a conscince as well and it is my responsibility to help in the proper way and keep everyone safe... safety is the #1 priority and running a cycle is so wrong for so many reasons for you... it may have been harsh, but its because you are completely frustrating... you don't listen and you are making a mistake... like i said, some people have to learn the hard way and i wish you didn't have to be one of those but apparently that is the case here...
 
Wow Kid you just do not know when to stop......After finding out that you have pancreintitis (fuck spelling) going on AAS is probably the worst idea that you have ever come up with.

When you take AAS it effects a lot of your vital organs in your body and one of them you guessed it is the pancreas.

If you decide to take AAS your logic of ( I have a life expectancy of 55 why not cycle AAS ) is not exactly spot on......

Your logic needs to be more of My life expectancy is 55. If I cycle AAS my life expectancy will go down signifigantly because I have pancreatitis( fuck spelling) more like 35-44.

So It is really up to you. Do you want to keep your life expectancy at 55 or cycle AAS and decrease your Life expectancy because that is what AAS does (Sorry to burst your bubble).

This logic of why not cycle I am gonna die at 55 is completely outrageous. If you take AAS you will only make your situation worse.
 
Listen to the guy above me bro, AAS with your medical condition is likely the last thing you should be considering. Dylan is also correct, steroids should not be looked upon lightly and running a cycle is not merely a matter of throwing caution to the wind.
 
I think he feels that he is not living for a long time here, he wants to get big as fast as possible since he is not going to live long. That is why he is rushing his cycle. Now, in my opinion,[FONT=&quot] testosterone, [/FONT]is [FONT=&quot]testosterone, [/FONT] it will build muscles fast regardless of your age or training experience. So I fail to understand why the need for him to train more inorder to use it? Even he fucks up at diet and training he'll still gain. Alot of people in my GYM are fucking up their diets and their training and they're still bigger than alot of naturals that are busting their asses and following a strict diet.
 
^^^ because on EF we teach people how to juice the right way.

just cause people in your gym are idiots doesn't mean we give that advice. there are people who jump off buildings who survive, doesn't mean its a good idea to try it.

he doesn't even work out his legs, so not sure how they are gonna magically grow .. you said yourself PEOPLE IN MY GYM. hence they are working out correct? this guy doesn't work out so he isn't gonna go nowhere juicing either.
 
There are a lot of great responses in here, and I agree with these guys. Given your medical condition, your focus should be to do the healthiest thing you can for yourself and AAS is not it.

You have a lot to learn on diet, training, and AAS too.

Don't use your condition as an excuse why you can't grow either. If you don't absorb cals as good as others, just take in even more of them!
 
stevesmi said:
^^^ because on EF we teach people how to juice the right way.



he doesn't even work out his legs, so not sure how they are gonna magically grow ..
Click to expand...

there is no right or wrong way... there is only your OPINION on what is right or not... lets just say he does fix his diet and keep up on it... now what?

he has already stated he will start working his legs... no offense as dyllangemelli is ripped, but he has bird legs and only does cardio for his legs... so its ok for him to have bird legs? and yes i have seen them... not hating, just wondering why there is a double standard here... his back aint all that either... i understand he has some back problems or whatever... but like you said earlier, no excuses...
 
moya said:
there is no right or wrong way... there is only your OPINION on what is right or not... lets just say he does fix his diet and keep up on it... now what?

he has already stated he will start working his legs... no offense as dyllangemelli is ripped, but he has bird legs and only does cardio for his legs... so its ok for him to have bird legs? and yes i have seen them... not hating, just wondering why there is a double standard here... his back aint all that either... i understand he has some back problems or whatever... but like you said earlier, no excuses...
Click to expand...

Lmfao!! Bird legs my ass... you are right that I do all running on them but every single person I lift with always comments on them so i m not quite sure where you come off with this ridiculous comment but I will be mature and not fire back

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using EliteFitness
 
Dude moya, I respect the numbers you put up, but to say dylan has bird legs has me scratching my head...the dude has some flat out sick calves and some awesome shape to his upper leg area also. His back is ripped as it gets, despite not being able to do most heavy lower body lifts because he BROKE his fucking back.

So in the spirit of 'no excuses' you are perfectly healthy, why aren't you mr olympia...

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness
 
bigbassturd said:
Dude moya, I respect the numbers you put up, but to say dylan has bird legs has me scratching my head...the dude has some flat out sick calves and some awesome shape to his upper leg area also. His back is ripped as it gets, despite not being able to do most heavy lower body lifts because he BROKE his fucking back.

So in the spirit of 'no excuses' you are perfectly healthy, why aren't you mr olympia...

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

Lol well said
 
Before I started training 3 years ago I invested in a 1.5k home gym set up. This has allowed me to follow a weekly split routine diligently despite neglecting my lower body (legs). I think mohgame has summarized the reasoning behind why I would like to introduce some anabolic assistance to my training. I'm basically at crossroads, yes I have a chronic illness for the rest of my life that will undoubtedly effect my overall life expectancy, but do I choose to make most of what I have despite compromising my health further. 30 or so years down the track when the fat lady starts singing is it going to matter either way?

My understanding of AAS was that the majority of gains would be completely lost after a cycle however a percentage would remain, over years of training and cycling you could amass greater gains. If a person only used a moderate amount cycling only once/twice a year and not going over the top you could maintain a great physique whilst not adversely impacting on your health?

Honestly I'm having mixed feelings, not trying to bash anyone, but it seems a bit hypocritical that your personal decision to use is ok but its wrong for someone else?

(on a side note I kept getting this error "You can NOT post a message with links, website address in it before you have 25 posts (At the moment you have 12 posts). Please remove the website address in your message and resend", wouldn't let me post!)
 
Those giving advice are not being hypocritical, they are in a different position to yours and have learnt how to train and diet before beginning the use of steroids. That is why they are recommending you do the same, and your weight evidences you have not, before you begin to use them. At the end of the day, if you choose to use steroids regardless of the advice given, it is your own health you will be jeopardizing, not ours.
 
bigbassturd said:
Dude moya, I respect the numbers you put up, but to say dylan has bird legs has me scratching my head...the dude has some flat out sick calves and some awesome shape to his upper leg area also. His back is ripped as it gets, despite not being able to do most heavy lower body lifts because he BROKE his fucking back.

So in the spirit of 'no excuses' you are perfectly healthy, why aren't you mr olympia...

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

well, i have competed at a higher level then probably 99.99% of this board... probably any active member here... i have competed at the olympia expo, and furthermore, i could care less about bodybuilding as a sport... if health is seriously the prime goal with cycling here... competitive bodybuilding at a high level is just not that at all... i like to be able to run and jump and be flexible etc... im not making an excuse, i just dont care to be any bigger...

so training around a broken back is ok?.. but trying to improve ones quality of life when they only have so much time on this earth is not... a measly 250mg of testosterone is not going to hurt anyone using half decent guidance...
still seems like a double standard...
 
moya said:
well, i have competed at a higher level then probably 99.99% of this board... probably any active member here... i have competed at the olympia expo, and furthermore, i could care less about bodybuilding as a sport... if health is seriously the prime goal with cycling here... competitive bodybuilding at a high level is just not that at all... i like to be able to run and jump and be flexible etc... im not making an excuse, i just dont care to be any bigger...

so training around a broken back is ok?.. but trying to improve ones quality of life when they only have so much time on this earth is not... a measly 250mg of testosterone is not going to hurt anyone using half decent guidance...
still seems like a double standard...
Click to expand...


just for fun moya... here's a picture of "bird legs"... just a calf shot...

i broke my back in the past... i opted to not have surgery because i did not want the risk of making it worse... so yeah, i have some trouble with dead lifts and squats etc that utilize that certain portion of the back but i urge you to provide with people that train like i do every day of the year... my conditioning is bar none man... so to put me in the same category as someone who has no business taking steroids and bringing health into it, i just don't understand... i don't understand you sometimes man... sometimes your cool as fuck and then other times its like you hate the world or something and your just out to talk shit... i don't get it...
 
'anonymity' 3 years ago I started out at 50kg, bulked to a weight of 70kg. For a while now i've been trying to 'cut' and have manage to lower my weight to 65kg. Over a period of 3 years training naturally I've amassed approximately 3kg of muscle per year. Turning 24 in a few months, and as years go by gaining muscle and maintaining will inevitably turn into an uphill struggle.

"....someone who has no business taking steroids..", I'm sure both our governments would agree neither of us do!
 
Alright bro if you are going to go ahead in any case make sure you do things right. Test only for first cycle, 500mg/week but you could even use slightly less if you prefer. Research PCT thoroughly and make sure your diet and training are in good nick before you start. Keep ancillaries on hand for estrogen and any other sides anticipated. Ensure that the needles and syringes you use are from a reputable and sterile supplier such as your local needle exchange.
 
dylangemelli said:
just for fun moya... here's a picture of "bird legs"... just a calf shot...

i broke my back in the past... i opted to not have surgery because i did not want the risk of making it worse... so yeah, i have some trouble with dead lifts and squats etc that utilize that certain portion of the back but i urge you to provide with people that train like i do every day of the year... my conditioning is bar none man... so to put me in the same category as someone who has no business taking steroids and bringing health into it, i just don't understand... i don't understand you sometimes man... sometimes your cool as fuck and then other times its like you hate the world or something and your just out to talk shit... i don't get it...
Click to expand...
dont put words in my mouth...
im only giving the OP validation for attempting to juice... i think this board is waaaay to hard on people tying to learn the proper way to train and juice...
it is absurd to say that a mild dose 'beginner' cycle will have detrimental effect on his health...
there are many here, even one mod in particular, that almost always shun on juice for athletes as opposed to bodybuilders... they claim it will ruin performance... that is absurd as well, as you should attest being more of an athlete than a bodybuilder...
 
Some of the responses for athletics does get annoying. Dylan trains as an endurance athlete and moya as a powerlifter so of course neither is gonna look like a bodybuilder but has done well at attaining what they want out of aas use.

To the op would just do a test only cycle for 12 weeks and have everything before starting.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness
 
Texas Monster said:
Wow Kid you just do not know when to stop......After finding out that you have pancreintitis (fuck spelling) going on AAS is probably the worst idea that you have ever come up with.

When you take AAS it effects a lot of your vital organs in your body and one of them you guessed it is the pancreas.

If you decide to take AAS your logic of ( I have a life expectancy of 55 why not cycle AAS ) is not exactly spot on......

Your logic needs to be more of My life expectancy is 55. If I cycle AAS my life expectancy will go down signifigantly because I have pancreatitis( fuck spelling) more like 35-44.

So It is really up to you. Do you want to keep your life expectancy at 55 or cycle AAS and decrease your Life expectancy because that is what AAS does (Sorry to burst your bubble).

This logic of why not cycle I am gonna die at 55 is completely outrageous. If you take AAS you will only make your situation worse.
Click to expand...

ok dude i seriously rofl'd. pancreatitis (fuck spelling) - wtf hahaha and you did it twice.


l2play. I promise, you will blow your mind with what you can do with a natural test booster, a weight gainer shake, lots of rice chicken broccoli and pizza. No joke. Eat cheeseburgers even. Just not fastfood burgers, get your own ground beef and go nuts.

Eat and lift. Dead squat bench rows. google 3 day split. I'm not exaggerating when I say that you can gain 10 lbs in 4 weeks natty specially if you haven't been working legs. There's so much meat you can slap onto your thighs.

And also, you're looking at your condition the wrong way. If you adopt a healthy lifestyle, you'll improve your quality and length of life. Don't step on the gas if your car doesn't have breaks.
 
moya said:
dont put words in my mouth...
im only giving the OP validation for attempting to juice... i think this board is waaaay to hard on people tying to learn the proper way to train and juice...
it is absurd to say that a mild dose 'beginner' cycle will have detrimental effect on his health...
there are many here, even one mod in particular, that almost always shun on juice for athletes as opposed to bodybuilders... they claim it will ruin performance... that is absurd as well, as you should attest being more of an athlete than a bodybuilder...
Click to expand...

i have no problem with any athlete using any kind of performance enhancer... i think some are not worth running depending on the sport but there is always something of benefit there and i have no problem whatsoever with them being ran...

my problem is that you attempted to call me out... i didn't even speak your name yet you bring my name up and then try to talk shit about something you are completely wrong about... you tried to take a shot at me and ended up not looking good for it... there was no need for that... making a comment about my physique? really? you may be extremely strong, and i've always had respect for that, but you should not be calling me out on anything with my body because you are not in my league when it comes to that...
 
Last edited:
dylangemelli said:
i don't understand you sometimes man... sometimes your cool as fuck and then other times its like you hate the world or something and your just out to talk shit... i don't get it...
Click to expand...

tren :D
 
Just wanted to update this thread on my progress.

On hand right now I have acquired, Test Cyp, Novadex, syringes and 23 guage needles. I feel adamant about running a cycle and the temptation to just jump straight into injecting is overwhelming.

I'm holding off for atleast another month if not longer. I've purchased a squating cage a little over a week ago and have incorporated a leg routine into my workouts. This an overview of my workout routine:

Day 1 - Chest , Day 2 - Abs , Day - 3 Back, Day 4 - legs, Day 5 shoulders. 2 days rest.

Im currently making progress in formulating a stricter diet regime. So far i've been relying on a loose plan of healthy eating fairly regularly. Until im closer towards the 10% bodyfat range I should avoid jumping into a cycle.

Taking in excatly 1500calories per day. In a months time i'll re-evaluate when to actually start my cycle.

Everyones input was grealy appreciated!
 
l2play` said:
Thank your for your reply!
I don't mean any disrespect for your responses, but please understand that my genetic condition is further altered by this disease. I have already located a source close to my vincinity and would very much appreciate substances that you would recommend for a first cycle. I do not wish to disrespect your invaluable experience when it comes to lifting! It's just that this condition does not make it any easier for me to achieve my workout goals!
Thanks for your time once again!
Click to expand...

Stop fuckin complaining and squat till u mother fuckin drop!
 
Well I want to lean out further before jumping on a test cycle. 2000 calories is what I would estimate to be my maintenace level of food intake. Hence the 500 deficit.

Body wise I am at the smaller end of the spectrum. Only 5"5 with fairly small bone structure, joints, etc.
 
1500 cals aint shit.

Weighing 65 kg aint jack shit either.

You just started squating and developing good habits. Build off those for a few years before deciding to juice.

YOU DO NOT HAVE A GOOD BASE YET AND BY TAKING AAS YOU WILL LOOSE EVERYTHING ONCE YOU STOP TAKING THEM!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not know how to make this more clear to you that you are not ready for this shit. Respect your hormones right now because they define who you are as a man. Do you not get that?

You do not even have a good PCT lined up. You are a mess and this cycle is fucked and your gonna end up fucking your body up which either takes a long ass time to get back to normal or worst case you never return to normal.

Think about it kid. Do not do it yet. You have a lot of room to grow naturally first!!!!!!
 
I started off at 21 at 50-51 kg, bulked up and dieted down to 65kg. Almost 24 now, so over a 3 year period I have amassed 3kg per year.

Thats another point. After coming off a cycle if your not at your "genetic potential" or close to it shouldn't your body be able to maintain a portion of the gains you make? And in comparison of heading down the natty route you would have amassed greater gains overall?
 
how in the fuck could your maintenance only be 2000 calories... that means that you basically are sitting idle all day not doing a fucking thing... you are way off with everything man... i put women on nearly the amount of calories you are taking in... most women that are really trying to lose weight stay between 1200-1500... you really do not know what you are doing...
 
l2play` said:
I started off at 21 at 50-51 kg, bulked up and dieted down to 65kg. Almost 24 now, so over a 3 year period I have amassed 3kg per year.

Thats another point. After coming off a cycle if your not at your "genetic potential" or close to it shouldn't your body be able to maintain a portion of the gains you make? And in comparison of heading down the natty route you would have amassed greater gains overall?
Click to expand...


Yes this is true. If you have not hit your genetic potential you will keep gains from a cycle.

The only problem with your theory though is that if you do not have a solid base you will have minimal gains and they will be extremely hard to hold onto after cycle because you do not have the quality muscle mass to keep pushing weights through PCT and into your next cycle.

Thats good that you were able to increase your weight from 50kg to 65 kg over the course of 3 years. This means that you have a shit ton more room to grow naturally first. If you start fucking with your hormones now you may not get that chance again to grow at the natural rate you are growing.

Considering you have no idea what a proper pct is either you will end up loosing all your very minimal gains and you will probably end up being only the ones in the gym who get serious during their cycles. News flash on AAS or Not or in PCT or whatever if you are not going to kick ass every day in your training and diet you are wasting your time.

As stated before you are not ready for these very very very powerful drugs.
 
Just eat some a bombs and take a gram of tren E every week and eat nothing but Leafy greans....now you will get great results. Just ask Popeye. You only need to work your biceps man. Everything else is over rated. Im being sarcastic. Just fyi.

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peejae said:
Just eat some a bombs and take a gram of tren E every week and eat nothing but Leafy greans....now you will get great results. Just ask Popeye. You only need to work your biceps man. Everything else is over rated. Im being sarcastic. Just fyi.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

Oh yeah lets just go ahead and make football safer by making the players wear bras and play with a balloon and drink semen to improve strength.
 
Yeh pretty much. My job is a desk job. Transport isn't really far away from work. The only excercise I get daily is with my 45-60min lifting everyday. I may have under estimated my maintenance calories. Like I said i'm not going to jump into anything just yet. For the time being i'll eat 2000 a day and see if my weight changes at all in the upcoming weeks. Biggest mistake I made whilst bulking was the mentality of eat everything, not really a clean bulk, and no real monitoring for how many calories a day.
 
I just wanted to run an update on my progress.
Thanks for all responses and support/lack of. It helps put things into perspective. Since I am inherently young and stupid I have decided to run a 500mg a week Test Cyp only cycle for a period of 12 weeks.

First week of my cycle I bumped up my calories by 300. I'm currently in week 2 and have bumped it up another 300 calories. At the moment I'm eating a clean 2600 calories a day. My appetites increased making it more easier to eat more. Ideally next week I will bump it up another 300 calories and try to assess to the best of my ability if I'm putting on excess fat or not.

I'm pinning twice a week, (hopes of maintaining a more stable blood level), Wednesday and Saturday. So far I have been doing my glutes, aspirating, everything has gone smoothly.

However, yesterday I decided to do my thighs so I have more spots to rotate injecting. As I insert the needle through my skin and push it further In I felt it pierce a second layer inside my leg. I have never felt this before when injecting glutes. I pull back to aspirate everything looks like its good to go. Just to play safe I only inject a small amount of gear. Suddenly I felt a cold sensation in my leg, I started feeling light headed and then sweat started profusely accumulating all over my face. Thought of death occurred to me at-least once. I pulled the needle and started to control my breathing hoping the situation wouldn't take a turn for the worst. 20-30 minutes later the feeling subsided. I was very close to calling an ambulance during this ordeal. A few hours later after I had composed myself I changed the needle of the syringe and injected into my glutes, everything went fine.

Now its more than likely I had injected into a vein despite having aspirated and drawing no blood. Could a 1 inch needle be too long for 'ME' to be injecting into my glutes? Currently I've decided to just stick to my glutes. Also I'm using a 1inch needle for glutes and so far no issues but is it long enough to actually be an intramuscular injection?

Training wise I've experienced gains on my lifts after the first week! I've been able to stack on more weights especially on my compound lifts. My bench was already up 10kg after the first week. I feel alot more stamina to do an extra set or more reps. When I train abs I'm able to easily do more reps per set. I can only anticipate for greater things to come.

So far the only side effect that I have noticed is more oily skin especially around my faces t-zone. I've always sufferred from mild acne on my chest and back before this cycle and have noticed a small breakout on my shoulder region. I've so far been able to control this by showering twice a day and applying Epiduo (contains benzoyl peroxide and adalpalene) twice to my face, back, and chest twice a day. It's really helped to keep my acne in control, my backs actually looking better than before cycling and not applying epiduo!

Unfortunately I do not have any access to HCG. At this point in time I've decided to forgo running an A.I.. The only concern I have is gyno worsening so far no symptoms but I have Nolvadex on hand to use on cycle.

Now for my PCT, I'm thinking of taking Nolva and Clomid and just supplementing with per-workout stimulant such as 1m.r.. I would appreciate dosage suggestions for both and any other supplement that could help during PCT.
 
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^^^ wow 143 pounds. no base.. never worked out your legs, don't know how to eat. no AI.. wanting to run nolva/clomid for pct. acne prone. i don't doubt your lifts are up 10kg. when you are so below your genetic potential its easy to gain strength by showing up in the gym. unfortunately after cycle when you go back to old habits and don't have extra hormones in your body say goodbye to everything and then some.

you obviously have not listened to any advice given to you, and have done very little research as to what you are doing. which is a blown opportunity. i suggest you stop what you are doing and re-read this entire thread again, and again, and again.
 
I'm 24 in a few months time, yes I am 143 pounds sitting 5'5. Yes I am a small limbed person possibly on the lower strata of male body sizes. Its fine if you don't approve me running a cycle. I bet there's alot of things you do not approve. I may not be at your ideal base but even moya doesn't think im at a bad base.

But saying that I've done 'very little' research now I feel insulted. To be completely blunt and honest I have used a number supplements over the years and I personally think they are rubbish. Cannot parallel what anabolic assistance can. When I see these boards and fitness magazines push products with people representing them who clearly are on something else I feel sick.

How is my cycle not well thought out? I am using only one compound. Injecting twice a week. I have blood work done prior. I will have blood work done after. I have a generic PCT planned out. I have tweaked my diet and workout. Re-read the thread over and over again?

Acne prone, I bet there numerous people in this world on these boards who are acne prone. Its card delt by genetics. Its something I cannot do much about other than control whether off a cycle or on a cycle.

Honestly I give up if you want to pin my thread as a deterrent to possible future anabolic users so be it. out.
 
Why would u not have an ai on hand but have nolvadex for the gyno make it possible have estrogen rebound.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness
 
I have access to Arimidex but I am hesitant to unnecessarily use another substance unless I absolutely need to. If I can't put up with excessive bloating or gyno symptoms present themselves.

Since using Nolvadex alone would cause estrogen rebound I could using it in combination with arimidex on cycle to prevent gyno?
 
l2play` said:
But saying that I've done 'very little' research now I feel insulted. .
Click to expand...

dude your long previous post shows you have done no research.

thinking a 1 inch pin is too short for the glutes
thinking a nolva/clomid pct is a good pct and then asking what dosages you should use
pinning just your glutes and not rotating muscles and then complaining you are hitting something hard, yeah that is what will happen
almost calling an ambulance because you don't know how to inject
not getting hcg because you don't have access, if you don't have access to something then don't run a cycle until you get it
not running an AI during cycle

these are things even a beginner should know.. you have no excuses as you have been on the board long enough, but you are so deadset on doing things on your terms and not listening to others that you choose to do things your way.

I will always give you my opinion, you might not like it, but I'm consistent. if you really want help PM me and I will work with you and get you on a diet and workout regime, a year from now you will be very pleased with your results.
 
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I don't see how your correlating post length with lack of research.

Information that I've gathered through reading posts and other peoples experiences presents glaring contradictions. For example, some people are happy just running Nolvadex or Clomid for a PCT or a combination, some people run an A.I. some people don't. Some people say use HCgenerate, Some people say its nothing like the REAL HCG. The list goes on. I've met a person who competed nationally who owns a gym I visited overseas and he didn't even believe in a PCT. I asked him about Nolvadex but in his mind you recover when your body recovers.

With a 500mg test cycle is HCG paramount to follow up into a good PCT?

Everything has a learning curve. The first two injections in my glutes were fine. Its only when I rotated to my thigh did things take a turn for the worst. Even if you aspirate you still could potentially be injecting into a vein. Now knowing this fact I only injected a tiny amount and waited a few seconds to make sure It wasn't a vein. Had I not "researched" this I would have kept injecting and possibly be in ER or 6 feet under.

Lol my way is running just a test starter cycle, seeing how my body responds, and then monitoring how my recovery goes. If after my cycle I haven't held onto a respectable amount of gains off cycle then I possibly won't be rushing into a second cycle any time soon.

I would appreciate your time if you could critique my diet and workout routine.
 
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