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Doctor vs. "Health Care Crisis"

hanselthecaretaker

High End Bro
Platinum
Diagnosis, prognosis and cure in just three short paragraphs.

If you doubt any part of what Dr. Jones says, go visit your local hospital emergency room as an observer for an hour or so some Friday or Saturday night.


Dear Mr. President:

During my shift in the Emergency Room last night, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient whose smile revealed an expensive shiny gold tooth, whose body was adorned with a wide assortment of elaborate and costly tattoos, who wore a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and who chatted on a new cellular telephone equipped with a popular R&B ring tone.

While glancing over her patient chart, I happened to notice that her payer status was listed as "Medicaid"!

During my examination of her, the patient informed me that she smokes more than one costly pack of cigarettes every day and somehow still has money to buy pretzels and beer.

And, you and our Congress expect me to pay for this woman's health care? I contend that our nation's "health care crisis" is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses.

Rather, it is the result of a "crisis of culture", a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. It is a culture based on the irresponsible credo that "I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me."

Once you fix this "culture crisis" that rewards irresponsibility and dependency, you'll be amazed at how quickly our nation's health care difficulties will disappear.


Respectfully,
STARNER JONES, MD



*edit* additional comments he wrote in to a paper after receiving criticism for what he said above-

America is Still the Land of Opportunity - For Everyone
Starner Jones, M.D.
Jackson, MS
January 11, 2010

I continue to receive numerous phone calls, letters, emails and face-to-face comments about my letter ("Why Pay For the Care of the Careless") which appeared in your newspaper a few months ago.

Most people express highest approval for the opinion set forth. Indeed, the truth has an illuminating quality all its own.

However, a few have disagreed and all of them falsely assume that a person who holds the views which I espouse must have been raised in a privileged home. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I grew up in a lower middle class, single parent home in the rural hill country of Pontotoc, Mississippi. While attending public schools, I paid attention in class and did my homework. I ran with the right crowd and stayed out of trouble. My dedication in school resulted in a full-paid scholarship to the prestigious University of the South in Sewanee, TN. After college, I left to go to medical school with everything I owned in three bags. The rest is history.

Motivation, not entitlement, is the key to personal success and happiness in life.


As best I can tell, Dr. Jones has made no further public statements on the matter.


http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/Dr-Roger-Starner-Jones-MD.htm
 
Last edited:
The other situations that drive me nuts...

1) The 400 lb person with a $200,000 diabetic wound. What did you expect?

2) The 400 lb person who needs bilateral knee and hip arthroplasty (~ $200k worth of surgery). What did you expect?

3) The uninsured guy who wrecks his ATV while drunk and won't stop smoking long enough to let his broken bones heal correctly.
 
The other situations that drive me nuts...

1) The 400 lb person with a $200,000 diabetic wound. What did you expect?

2) The 400 lb person who needs bilateral knee and hip arthroplasty (~ $200k worth of surgery). What did you expect?

3) The uninsured guy who wrecks his ATV while drunk and won't stop smoking long enough to let his broken bones heal correctly.

4) peeps that gorge themselves with Taco Bell

5) peeps that participate (from teh bottom) in risky sechual practices
 
4) peeps that gorge themselves with Taco Bell

5) peeps that participate (from teh bottom) in risky sechual practices

6) People who try to simultaneously win 1st, 2nd and 3rd spot on the same evening during Cutter's "Anal Annihilation Night".
 
I'm going to reveal some real life stuff about myself here, but may have to delete it later on given the nature of the disclosure.

I'm the county manager for a mental health and substance abuse tx provider. The two locations I run do a total of about 105k to 115k a month. I have two psychiatrists, one psychologist, two RN's, two licensed counselors, and a bunch of other clinicians of various types. Big place in other words.

To the meat of it, we are constantly bombarded with people who want "an evaluation". They feel they cannot work and want Medicaid and SSI and/or SSDI. It is every single day. Some of these people are legitimately disabled by severe and persistent mental illness...but most are just goddamn lazy. And everyday I see the same hallmarks of misplaced priorities as the ER doc. Everybody's got a celly, and usually a nice one, but no one works. Lots of popular urban brand clothes and bags, but no one can work.

I am generally proud of my employer's position on "helping" these motivationally challenged individuals. We help them to some non-habit forming psych meds, and help them to counseling, and we don't help them be lazy by facilitating their disability claims.
 
So, is the alternative is that we let the people die? Or let them starve? I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just looking for the desired outcome.
 
So, is the alternative is that we let the people die? Or let them starve? I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just looking for the desired outcome.

The desired outcome is ultimately more and more people learning to get their shit together and be responsible for themselves. When that happens, chances are we'll have more than enough capacity to assist those who truly can't.
 
facilitating. I used that word for a reason.

that's wut I said

the act of building paper through county health care "facilitates" their path to documenting a need for assistance, e.g. a cheque

even "non-habit forming psych meds" facilitates govmint assistance for those seeking to work teh system
 
The desired outcome is ultimately more and more people learning to get their shit together and be responsible for themselves. When that happens, chances are we'll have more than enough capacity to assist those who truly can't.
Absolutely, but there is always going to be a standard deviation of people who are assholes and want to lazy around while the rest of the people work. What do we do about those people? Kill them? Let them starve? Kick them out?
 
Absolutely, but there is always going to be a standard deviation of people who are assholes and want to lazy around while the rest of the people work. What do we do about those people? Kill them? Let them starve? Kick them out?

Yes.
 
So, is the alternative is that we let the people die? Or let them starve? I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just looking for the desired outcome.

We already provide tiered healthcare, we're just to wussy to admit it.

If Barry suffered a massive heart attack, he'd be emergency airlifted to one on the beset medical centers in the world and receive hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars worth of care per day -- they'd bring him back from death's door if necessary.

Now if a homeless drunk downtown suffered from the same heart attack, he'd get some care -- but it would fall well short of Barry's. He'd probably slip into organ failure and doctors would start saying "there's nothing we can do". But there's always something they can do... at a price.

So we're already letting people die. The difference is we need to turn off the spending tap sooner depending on the circumstances.
 
I took care of some broads kids who only had uri's in the ED yesterday. She had on big fake nails, had her hair did, and was wearing a gold grill. She needed a Rx for children's Tylenol tho so she could get it for free.
 
This is an issue up here even with Medicare where no one is without.
I've always sat on the fence with this issue, since it's easy to judge others but at the same time having sympathy for them. There are a few dr's up here who are now refusing any ptts who smoke. When I was a smoke (QUIT 4 YEARS AGO TODAY...WOOHOOO) I would have been horrified had a doc refused to see me, but in retrospect, I get it now.
Here I was, presenting with Lupus, Lyme and so many other issues and was smoking and asking "why am I not doing better" Was crazy!

If someone is obese and has a ton of health issues, yet they refuse to eat well and or exercise, refusing them would be like refusing to treat an active alcoholic or drug addict. Obesity is an addiction like any other. How can you refuse someone with mental health issues like this? You can't!

Then you get the person who is not an addict, but just someone who is SO uneducated about good health, even when you try to help them understand, they still don't get why they cannot eat 50 lbs of sugar a day.
I have a client, nice old man. He's type 2 diabetic and has had 2 heart attacks. Fine, he pays to see me, but he just will not give up sugar. He will email me and say "I'm out at a restaurant, can I have cheesecake since it's dairy and not sugar"
How do you not try to help someone like this?

This can be said about anyone who abuses their body, yes, even those on the juice! We cannot pick and choose who to help and not help.
If someone is abusing themselves, assume they are in some mental health crisis and do the best you can with them.

Tough one cause I find myself judging others all the time with regards to their health......
 
This is an issue up here even with Medicare where no one is without.
I've always sat on the fence with this issue, since it's easy to judge others but at the same time having sympathy for them. There are a few dr's up here who are now refusing any ptts who smoke. When I was a smoke (QUIT 4 YEARS AGO TODAY...WOOHOOO) I would have been horrified had a doc refused to see me, but in retrospect, I get it now.
Here I was, presenting with Lupus, Lyme and so many other issues and was smoking and asking "why am I not doing better" Was crazy!

If someone is obese and has a ton of health issues, yet they refuse to eat well and or exercise, refusing them would be like refusing to treat an active alcoholic or drug addict. Obesity is an addiction like any other. How can you refuse someone with mental health issues like this? You can't!

Then you get the person who is not an addict, but just someone who is SO uneducated about good health, even when you try to help them understand, they still don't get why they cannot eat 50 lbs of sugar a day.
I have a client, nice old man. He's type 2 diabetic and has had 2 heart attacks. Fine, he pays to see me, but he just will not give up sugar. He will email me and say "I'm out at a restaurant, can I have cheesecake since it's dairy and not sugar"
How do you not try to help someone like this?

This can be said about anyone who abuses their body, yes, even those on the juice! We cannot pick and choose who to help and not help.
If someone is abusing themselves, assume they are in some mental health crisis and do the best you can with them.

Tough one cause I find myself judging others all the time with regards to their health......

I completely agree blue. When I see someone that is obese, I see a mental health issue; I don't see laziness or gluttony. I feel sorry for them because most of us can hide our problems, but they have to have theirs on display for the entire world to see. People act like it's as easy as giving up xyz but it's more difficult if that is what they've chosen to numb themselves and it's not normal to not care if you die.
 
CIndy, just thought of a good story, when I was doing my year long apprenticeship at the health clinic, a women would come in complaining of the same issues over and over. She was paying the ND $200 an hr and never followed her treatment plan. She REFUSED to change her diet, refused to adjust her life to get well, but she still came in every 4 weeks.
I sat in on every appointment and kept thinking to myself "Man, I would dump this one if she were my client"

Then one day it hit me after I was at a conference where an MD (who does allopathic and natural healing) said "Many times when a ptts doesn't get well or refuses to get well, it's because they are holding on to their sickness in safety. They are not ready yet to change and let it go. This is where the practitioners need to have patients and guide them to healing, even if it takes a lifetime"

Then I realized this woman at the clinic was SO unhappy in her life. I pulled the ND aside and said "Ask about her marriage"
She did and the women almost fell onto the floor in tears and talked for 2 hrs about how much she hated her life. NO WORD OF A LIE, 4 weeks later she came in for her follow up, told us she is now in therapy and started the ND's treatment program and was getting well.
Now if MD's would take more than a friggin minute with each ptt and really try to heal and not just give them pills that don't work, then maybe more people would get better. (Chris this is not up for debate)

Hard not to judge, I have clients who are addicts, obese, OCD (one girls emails and calls me 3-4 x a day) and I want to SCREAM, but I then remember, someone took their time with me when I was sick and stubborn, so......
 
*edit* additional comments he wrote in to a paper after receiving criticism for what he said above-

America is Still the Land of Opportunity - For Everyone
Starner Jones, M.D.
Jackson, MS
January 11, 2010

I continue to receive numerous phone calls, letters, emails and face-to-face comments about my letter ("Why Pay For the Care of the Careless") which appeared in your newspaper a few months ago.

Most people express highest approval for the opinion set forth. Indeed, the truth has an illuminating quality all its own.

However, a few have disagreed and all of them falsely assume that a person who holds the views which I espouse must have been raised in a privileged home. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I grew up in a lower middle class, single parent home in the rural hill country of Pontotoc, Mississippi. While attending public schools, I paid attention in class and did my homework. I ran with the right crowd and stayed out of trouble. My dedication in school resulted in a full-paid scholarship to the prestigious University of the South in Sewanee, TN. After college, I left to go to medical school with everything I owned in three bags. The rest is history.

Motivation, not entitlement, is the key to personal success and happiness in life.


As best I can tell, Dr. Jones has made no further public statements on the matter.


http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/Dr-Roger-Starner-Jones-MD.htm
 
Absolutely, but there is always going to be a standard deviation of people who are assholes and want to lazy around while the rest of the people work. What do we do about those people? Kill them? Let them starve? Kick them out?


They reap what they sow. At the very least they need to understand that they can't expect anyone else to be responsible for their bs.
 
They reap what they sow. At the very least they need to understand that they can't expect anyone else to be responsible for their bs.
So than you're saying that we should "do nothing"?


For the record, I have no problem doing nothing. Life is cheap. Especially in other countries.
 
You can also look at this way, when you watch an intervention of an addict and the family decides to cut their loved one off and the addict has hit rock bottom. it usually forces them to change or get into rehab. Maybe a non-compliant person should be turned away time and again until they realize they need to "wake up and smell the hummus"

Of course, this doesn't apply in dire situations, but in general. You smoke, sorry, we cannot treat you BUT will way for "non smoking aids" etc.
You're obese, sorry, can't help you, but can send you to therapy for your addictions

This sort of thing
 
People would be more healthy if there were NO Health insurance. Why? Because they would think twice before doing stupid things to hurt themselves and carelessly get sick, and more importantly, they would get the proper care immediately when paying cash. I'd be dead if I had even the best health insurance. No insurance out there, covers my hypoaldosteronism, or my heart problem. At least not 'til the aorta would rupture, and then it's too late.

Charles
 
You can also look at this way, when you watch an intervention of an addict and the family decides to cut their loved one off and the addict has hit rock bottom. it usually forces them to change or get into rehab. Maybe a non-compliant person should be turned away time and again until they realize they need to "wake up and smell the hummus"

Of course, this doesn't apply in dire situations, but in general. You smoke, sorry, we cannot treat you BUT will way for "non smoking aids" etc.
You're obese, sorry, can't help you, but can send you to therapy for your addictions

This sort of thing
I have a friend who is a social worker who tells me that the situation sometimes goes the other way and the person continues the descent / dies.

As long as we're okay with that, then there's no issue.

Again, I'm okay with it but I just want to be sure that people understand what they could be saying. The same thing goes for war.
 
Most are positive while some may be viewed as negative. It’s still interesting to see what lessons people have come up with at different ages.
 
White people have all the popular video vane and sound system shit but cant work either if it makes you feel better
 
I think the main difference between liberal and conservative is that, liberalism is just plain easier. Hence the bleeding heart tag that's often associated. It would also make sense that chemistry has a lot to do with it too. How many staunch conservatives are female for example. Usually most liberals are either women or metro guys.

Whatever the case, the notion that someone who

-doesn't take care of themselves,
-or their property,
-lets their delinquent kids run wild that they had irresponsibly,
-would rather sit around doing drugs than look for a job,
-uses a welfare card to pay for groceries then goes out and buys a big screen TV or other luxury,
-occupies Wall St.

deserves anything other than a "Fuck off" from a personally/socially disciplined and proactive person, is just asinine and part of the problem we have today.
 
I think the main difference between liberal and conservative is that, liberalism is just plain easier. Hence the bleeding heart tag that's often associated. It would also make sense that chemistry has a lot to do with it too. How many staunch conservatives are female for example. Usually most liberals are either women or fags like 75th...

Whatever the case, the notion that someone who

-doesn't take care of themselves,
-or their property,
-lets their delinquent kids run wild that they had irresponsibly,
-would rather sit around doing drugs than look for a job,
-uses a welfare card to pay for groceries then goes out and buys a big screen TV or other luxury,
-occupies Wall St.

deserves anything other than a "Fuck off" from a personally/socially disciplined and proactive person, is just asinine and part of the problem we have today.

Fyp
 
How so? So, as a taxpayer, I'm responsible for the lives of other full grown adults?
I didn't say that you were responsible for anyone else other then yourself.

I said would you do it?

I think that we need to be more honest with ourselves. Some people get a shitty lot in life and have some medical conditions that require attention and they don't have the ability to pay for them. You have a chance to let that person have somewhat of a normal life through taxation OR they could die because they didn't get their medicine.

So, the question is - Is $10 or $100 in taxation worth it? Sure, some will take advantage of the situation and be lazy (and most people believe that they will). Some are in the situation because of shitty conditions.


Or we could take it another way. Your husband dies in a car crash. Your baby has a few tough years with health problems and then beaten with a claw hammer then raped when she's a teenager. For argument's sake, let's say that she wants to have an abortion. Am I am bad person for not giving one dollar for her?

Or we could take it a third way. My family's house is destroyed by a flood. I am the the only surviving member of my clan. My insurance found a loophole and screwed me out of paying my insurance. The government could spend a little money to provide relief to the area. Are you a bad person for not helping me out?


Generally, people tend to think that all poor people are lazy or that all rich people are crooks but we both know that it isn't true. There are situations for everyone one, but we both know that people don't give a fuck for the situation and lumps people into general groups.


If it helps, my answer to the first question is to let that person die. I have no problems with it.
 
I think the main difference between liberal and conservative is that, liberalism is just plain easier.
I think that one side is easier because people aren't honest with themselves.

No one deserves anything regardless of what they do or how good a person they are. Some people just get a shitty deal in life.
 
I didn't say that you were responsible for anyone else other then yourself.

I said would you do it?

I think that we need to be more honest with ourselves. Some people get a shitty lot in life and have some medical conditions that require attention and they don't have the ability to pay for them. You have a chance to let that person have somewhat of a normal life through taxation OR they could die because they didn't get their medicine.

So, the question is - Is $10 or $100 in taxation worth it? Sure, some will take advantage of the situation and be lazy (and most people believe that they will). Some are in the situation because of shitty conditions.


Or we could take it another way. Your husband dies in a car crash. Your baby has a few tough years with health problems and then beaten with a claw hammer then raped when she's a teenager. For argument's sake, let's say that she wants to have an abortion. Am I am bad person for not giving one dollar for her?

Or we could take it a third way. My family's house is destroyed by a flood. I am the the only surviving member of my clan. My insurance found a loophole and screwed me out of paying my insurance. The government could spend a little money to provide relief to the area. Are you a bad person for not helping me out?


Generally, people tend to think that all poor people are lazy or that all rich people are crooks but we both know that it isn't true. There are situations for everyone one, but we both know that people don't give a fuck for the situation and lumps people into general groups.


If it helps, my answer to the first question is to let that person die. I have no problems with it.

I agree that there are specific situations that would IMO warrant temporary help. I worked in Cook County (Chicago) doing child welfare for over a decade and I worked closely with this population (unemployed, uneducated, multiple children, welfare families) and based on what i observed over the course of almost 13 yrs doing that kind of work, there are not NEARLY enough parameters in place to curb abuse of the system. Our government sucks at pretty much everything it does, and this is only one example. It's like we're just throwing money away year after year to people who don't deserve the help. Sooo frustrating. Our resources arent allocated very wisely from what I can see.
 
I agree that there are specific situations that would IMO warrant temporary help. I worked in Cook County (Chicago) doing child welfare for over a decade and I worked closely with this population (unemployed, uneducated, multiple children, welfare families) and based on what i observed over the course of almost 13 yrs doing that kind of work, there are not NEARLY enough parameters in place to curb abuse of the system. Our government sucks at pretty much everything it does, and this is only one example. It's like we're just throwing money away year after year to people who don't deserve the help. Sooo frustrating. Our resources arent allocated very wisely from what I can see.
I know what you mean (to a degree). My cousin worked in the social sector in the inner city. I would help her out from time to time because I "wanted to make a difference". That experience changed my perspective on everything.
 
I have a friend who is a social worker who tells me that the situation sometimes goes the other way and the person continues the descent / dies.

As long as we're okay with that, then there's no issue.

Again, I'm okay with it but I just want to be sure that people understand what they could be saying. The same thing goes for war.
or they get arrested committing crimes to support their abuse and they end up in the correctional systems were tax payer money helps them anyway too
 
I agree that there are specific situations that would IMO warrant temporary help. I worked in Cook County (Chicago) doing child welfare for over a decade and I worked closely with this population (unemployed, uneducated, multiple children, welfare families) and based on what i observed over the course of almost 13 yrs doing that kind of work, there are not NEARLY enough parameters in place to curb abuse of the system. Our government sucks at pretty much everything it does, and this is only one example. It's like we're just throwing money away year after year to people who don't deserve the help. Sooo frustrating. Our resources arent allocated very wisely from what I can see.
I see this on a daily basis now, people who dont even look for jobs but get food stamps and even funding for treatments and housing and they carelessly waste it away :(
 
If we distributed nanroasts instead of welfare, unemployment would be at record lows
 
Although strain on the healthcare system would increase exponentially
 
Although strain on the healthcare system would increase exponentially

However fatties would eat waaaay less so it gets compensated with less high bp, heart conditions and diabehtus *insert old mustache dude*

Sent from my VM670 using EliteFitness
 
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