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Most Americans can no longer collect unemployment..

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A Rise in crime or people will have to get off their asses and get a job. Maybe both!

Most of U.S. Unemployed No Longer Receive Benefits

WASHINGTON – The jobs crisis has left so many people out of work for so long that most of America's unemployed are no longer receiving unemployment benefits.
Early last year, 75 percent were receiving checks. The figure is now 48 percent -- a shift that points to a growing crisis of long-term unemployment. Nearly one-third of America's 14 million unemployed have had no job for a year or more.

Congress is expected to decide by year's end whether to continue providing emergency unemployment benefits for up to 99 weeks in the hardest-hit states.
If the emergency benefits expire, the proportion of the unemployed receiving aid would fall further.
The ranks of the poor would also rise. The Census Bureau says unemployment benefits kept 3.2 million people from slipping into poverty last year. It defines poverty as annual income below $22,314 for a family of four.
Yet for a growing share of the unemployed, a vote in Congress to extend the benefits to 99 weeks is irrelevant. They've had no job for more than 99 weeks.
They're no longer eligible for benefits.
Their options include food stamps or other social programs. Nearly 46 million people received food stamps in August, a record total. That figure could grow as more people lose unemployment benefits.
So could the government's disability rolls. Applications for the disability insurance program have jumped about 50 percent since 2007.
"There's going to be increased hardship," said Wayne Vroman, an economist at the Urban Institute.
The number of unemployed has been roughly stable this year. Yet the number receiving benefits has plunged 30 percent.
Government unemployment benefits weren't designed to sustain people for long stretches without work. They usually don't have to. In the recoveries from the previous three recessions, the longest average duration of unemployment was 21 weeks, in July 1983.
By contrast, in the wake of the Great Recession, the figure reached 41 weeks in September. That's the longest on records dating to 1948. The figure is now 39 weeks.
"It was a good safety net for a shorter recession," said Carl Van Horn, an economist at Rutgers University. It assumes "the economy will experience short interruptions and then go back to normal."
Weekly unemployment checks average about $300 nationwide. If the extended benefits aren't renewed, growth could slow by up to a half-percentage point next year, economists say.
The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that each $1 spent on unemployment benefits generates up to $1.90 in economic growth. The CBO has found that the program is the most effective government policy for increasing growth among 11 options it's analyzed.
Jon Polis lives in East Greenwich, Rhode Island, one of the 20 states where 99 weeks of benefits are available. He used them all up after losing his job as a warehouse worker in 2008. His benefits paid for groceries, car maintenance and health insurance.
Now, Polis, 55, receives disability insurance payments, food stamps and lives in government-subsidized housing. He's been unable to find work because employers in his field want computer skills he doesn't have.
"Employers are crying that they can't find qualified help," he said. But the ones he interviewed with "weren't willing to train anybody."
From late 2007, when the recession began, to early 2010, the number of people receiving unemployment benefits rose more than four-fold, to 11.5 million.
But the economy has remained so weak that an analysis of long-term unemployment data suggests that about 2 million people have used up 99 weeks of checks and still can't find work.
Contributing to the smaller share of the unemployed who are receiving benefits: Some of them are college graduates or others seeking jobs for the first time.
They aren't eligible. Only those who have lost a job through no fault of their own qualify.
The proportion of the unemployed receiving benefits usually falls below 50 percent during an economic recovery. Many have either quit jobs or are new to the job market and don't qualify.
Today, the proportion is falling for a very different reason: Jobs remain scarce. So more of the unemployed are exhausting their benefits.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has noted that the long-term unemployed increasingly find it hard to find work as their skills and professional networks erode. In a speech last month, Bernanke called long-term unemployment a "national crisis" that should be a top priority for Congress.
Lawmakers will have to decide whether to continue the extended benefits by the end of this year. If the program ends, nearly 2.2 million people will be cut off by February.
Congress has extended the program nine times. But it might balk at the $45 billion cost. It will be the first time the Republican-led House of Representatives will vote on the issue.


Read more: Most Of U.S. Unemployed No Longer Receive Benefits | Fox News
 
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The larger problem are the people who have been out of work for 2+ years, especially fresh-out-of high school/college graduates.

The prolonged Barry recession has created a band of people (probably a few million) who may not ever find real work. They've slipped through the cracks of the system.
 
The larger problem are the people who have been out of work for 2+ years, especially fresh-out-of high school/college graduates.

The prolonged Barry recession has created a band of people (probably a few million) who may not ever find real work. They've slipped through the cracks of the system.


True, it is called cyclical unemployment: caused by business cycle recession. What is the unemployment rate? I think between 8-10%. However, they do not factor in what you call "people who slipped through the cracks" (hidden unemployment) or people, who have given up trying to find a job. I would guess, "the real unemployment rate" is close to 20%.
 
This is not surprising.. If you really want to know a real indication of what the unemployment is than you have to look at the U-6 data... What everyone always talks about Is the U-3.. But even then those numbers are somewhat cooked..
 
Unemployment numbers only count those in the workforce. For the ones that have stopped looking for work, they are not considered part of the unemployment data. Therefore unemployment numbers are artificially deflated because the overall pie has been made smaller.
 
Yes, but more and more people will be going off assistance and I wonder what will happen to them?
 
Yes, but more and more people will be going off assistance and I wonder what will happen to them?

The very employable will get jobs, they might just not be the jobs they want (or at the pay they want).

The unemployable will be more unemployable than ever.

The new problem will the the ones that were employable two years ago that employers don't want to risk since they've been idle for so long. Those are the people who will be trapped. If I had to choose between a 22 year old straight out of college and a 24 year old who graduated two years ago and sat idle, I'd be biased to chose the 22 year old.
 
The very employable will get jobs, they might just not be the jobs they want (or at the pay they want).

The unemployable will be more unemployable than ever.

The new problem will the the ones that were employable two years ago that employers don't want to risk since they've been idle for so long. Those are the people who will be trapped. If I had to choose between a 22 year old straight out of college and a 24 year old who graduated two years ago and sat idle, I'd be biased to chose the 22 year old.

I agree plunk, there should be a company that interviews these people to help determine their value. State funded... IDK
Just an idea at this point.
 
Bad scene indeed. I hate to think how long it's going to take, for the Gov't and the Dems to figure out that until they stop choking out the small & medium businesses with unreasonable taxes, and EPA rules, and lawsuit-promoting employment laws, forced medical coverage, and all, that it's going to continue to get worse.

Charles
 
I agree plunk, there should be a company that interviews these people to help determine their value. State funded... IDK
Just an idea at this point.

The only hope they have now is insane economic growth that sweeps them back into the workforce -- and I wouldn't bet on that. We're nowhere near willing to make the changes it would take to make that happen.
 
The problem with unemployment benefits is they only have to be applying for jobs. If they are offered one they do not have to accept it and can keep collecting. So you've got employers accepting apps from people who have no intention of actually working
 
Bad scene indeed. I hate to think how long it's going to take, for the Gov't and the Dems to figure out that until they stop choking out the small & medium businesses with unreasonable taxes, and EPA rules, and lawsuit-promoting employment laws, forced medical coverage, and all, that it's going to continue to get worse.

Charles
BUISNESS TAXES and Corporate Taxes are lowest they've been in 40years. NO major EPA regulations have been passed in 8 years (none that effect ANY small business) except for Big Oil, natural gas and coal.
NO LAWSUIT promoting laws have been passed under bush or Obama that have choked any thing. Tort reform talk is a joke. Its a way to protect corporations from the people.
You're echoing nonsense K250
Blame the Dems for everything. like they have had control so long and are the cause for this mess.


Droid Bionic EF app
 
Unemployment numbers only count those in the workforce. For the ones that have stopped looking for work, they are not considered part of the unemployment data. Therefore unemployment numbers are artificially deflated because the overall pie has been made smaller.
Half right. They also account for New employment. So its slightly less deflated.


Droid Bionic EF app
 
Half right. They also account for New employment. So its slightly less deflated.


Droid Bionic EF app

Im talking about the unemployed who stop looking therefore removing themselves from the data that counts toward the unemployed. These people arent getting jobs and not counting toward new employment.
 
BUISNESS TAXES and Corporate Taxes are lowest they've been in 40years. NO major EPA regulations have been passed in 8 years (none that effect ANY small business) except for Big Oil, natural gas and coal.
NO LAWSUIT promoting laws have been passed under bush or Obama that have choked any thing. Tort reform talk is a joke. Its a way to protect corporations from the people.
You're echoing nonsense K250
Blame the Dems for everything. like they have had control so long and are the cause for this mess.


Droid Bionic EF app

1) US tax rates are uncompetitive unless you offshore and lobby for tax gifts. We're not big enough to lobby for tax breaks at a materially significant level, but we're more than big enough to offshore profits and dividends. In my own self-interest, I'm getting comfortable with this as we have been mitigating our US tax exposure since tax year 2010. Our plan will be complete in 2012.

2) US regulation is ridiculous and continues to discourage businesses. I should be OK with this one too, since it hurts the little guy much more than the larger companies. Larger companies can more easily setup overseas operations.

3) US torts are ridiculous and drive up the cost of doing business -- especially the cost of US-based employees. And yet again, I should be OK with this since it hurts the little guy much more than it hurts larger companies. Larger companies have corporate council and place lawyers in key positions anyway, because often (but not always) it turns any discussion into a privileged conversation. Little guys don't have that luxury. It also makes nuisance patents other legal hurdles vastly more easy to establish -- yet another win for larger companies.
 
True, it is called cyclical unemployment: caused by business cycle recession. What is the unemployment rate? I think between 8-10%. However, they do not factor in what you call "people who slipped through the cracks" (hidden unemployment) or people, who have given up trying to find a job. I would guess, "the real unemployment rate" is close to 20%.

there are literally TONS of jobs available right now...we will only know what "the real unemployment rate" is after all the lazy motherfuckers benefits run out and they HAVE TO go back to work...i'll bet it's a hell of a lot less than 20%.
 
The only hope they have now is insane economic growth that sweeps them back into the workforce -- and I wouldn't bet on that. We're nowhere near willing to make the changes it would take to make that happen.

I agree, I think other people are starting to think the same way.
 
BUISNESS TAXES and Corporate Taxes are lowest they've been in 40years. NO major EPA regulations have been passed in 8 years (none that effect ANY small business) except for Big Oil, natural gas and coal.
NO LAWSUIT promoting laws have been passed under bush or Obama that have choked any thing. Tort reform talk is a joke. Its a way to protect corporations from the people.
You're echoing nonsense K250
Blame the Dems for everything. like they have had control so long and are the cause for this mess.


Droid Bionic EF app

You're right on the past 8 years part, but the problem started like a fungus about 50 years ago, and should have been nipped in the bud by about 1970, and it wasn't. If we could set back the taxes and employment practices laws to 1955, and get the unions under control again, we'd see thousands of small and medium businesses getting in fist fights in the street to get leases on the vacant commercial buildings, and we'd see the unemployment office shut down for lack of business :) . (Don't get me wrong on the union thing, sometimes we need unions to stop abuses... But they're out of control, and making unreasonable demands on a daily basis nowadays).

Charles
 
Give all the bums oxy
 
Give all the bums oxy

That's well underway.

But you have to leave an allowance for Xannies too.

It's the new medicare/medicaid. Doctors are being incentivized to choose the script over the scalpel.
 
The problem with unemployment benefits is they only have to be applying for jobs. If they are offered one they do not have to accept it and can keep collecting. So you've got employers accepting apps from people who have no intention of actually working

How do you circumvent this though?
 
How do you circumvent this though?

I think if you're on unemployment and you apply for a job and are offered the job and you decline your unemployment should be revoked.

I also think people on unemployment should have to do work in their communities while they're receiving benefits.
 
I think if you're on unemployment and you apply for a job and are offered the job and you decline your unemployment should be revoked.

I also think people on unemployment should have to do work in their communities while they're receiving benefits.

Yes, I totally agree. Actually just wrote an article/blog about this sort of thing. I will post it.
Maybe after a certain number of applications something could be put in that lose some benefits. People are abusing the system and it has lost it's meaning to most about what it should represent.
 
I think if you're on unemployment and you apply for a job and are offered the job and you decline your unemployment should be revoked.

I also think people on unemployment should have to do work in their communities while they're receiving benefits.

Yes, I totally agree. Actually just wrote an article/blog about this sort of thing. I will post it.
Maybe after a certain number of applications something could be put in that they lose some benefits. People are abusing the system and it has lost it's meaning to most about what it should represent.
 
1) US tax rates are uncompetitive unless you offshore and lobby for tax gifts. We're not big enough to lobby for tax breaks at a materially significant level, but we're more than big enough to offshore profits and dividends. In my own self-interest, I'm getting comfortable with this as we have been mitigating our US tax exposure since tax year 2010. Our plan will be complete in 2012.

2) US regulation is ridiculous and continues to discourage businesses. I should be OK with this one too, since it hurts the little guy much more than the larger companies. Larger companies can more easily setup overseas operations.

3) US torts are ridiculous and drive up the cost of doing business -- especially the cost of US-based employees. And yet again, I should be OK with this since it hurts the little guy much more than it hurts larger companies. Larger companies have corporate council and place lawyers in key positions anyway, because often (but not always) it turns any discussion into a privileged conversation. Little guys don't have that luxury. It also makes nuisance patents other legal hurdles vastly more easy to establish -- yet another win for larger companies.
1. Valid source or your wrong information ?
The EFFECTIVE tax rate is one of the lowest in the entire industrialized World! And Every one that researches and doesn’t fucking sit and watch the talking heads knows it.
2. US regulation is a broad term. Your dittoing again. Financial regulations have ONLY decreased since the 80’s. Europe has more environmental regulation than the US and is and has not disappeared. Also, you Ignored the fact that I stated there has been NO substantial changes to EPA regulations in the past 8 years. Instead you go on about how bad they are?
3. The all horrible cost of doing business cry. Okay, please explain to me Why in this so called recession that the F500 Corporations and banks have been recording record Quarterly profits since 2009? The market just had its highest close since 2007. Oh yea, business needs more assistance and corporate welfare and lower taxes… There is NO evidence that big business’ are hurting. Squidly, your so Jaded.
Small Business - they are hurting… NOT BECAUSE OF EPA, Not Because of taxes, not because of lawsuits. If anyone thinks that they need to actually look into a new reality. Small Business’ need CUSTOMERS ! CUSTOMERS! There has been extensive research and polling done on these small business’ and the results are conclusive. They want customers. And no customers are coming. Can you answer why there are no customers? Instead of sitting there and barkng about how business needs government assistance.
 
there are literally TONS of jobs available right now...we will only know what "the real unemployment rate" is after all the lazy motherfuckers benefits run out and they HAVE TO go back to work...i'll bet it's a hell of a lot less than 20%.


I agree with you for the most part. Of course there are people who "buck" the system. However, I would not work for anything less than 80,000 a year, would you? Don't you have a couple of Master Degrees? I feel I paid my price by going to college then moving up the ranks by merit. Actually, for me to make less 100,000 a year is absurd, considering all the factors. If I lost my job for some bizarre reason, I would not take a menial job, this might sound like an arrogant statement, however, I feel I am beyond that scene. I think that is one component to why the unemployment rate is high. Some people have paid their dues then they lost their jobs (professionals), to tell them to work at Walmart is ridiculous... There is an "entitlement spirit" in a America, but it is not always the "lazy" people who are jacking up the unemployment rate.

Second, I aleady mentioned cyclical unemployment, which is caused by a recession, so we can shift blame on the government for that type of unemployment, which we all are anxious to do. There is something called structural unemployment: which arises from a mismatch between the skills and characteristics of workers and the requirements of jobs. When they phase out jobs in one area, people have to be trained in other areas, which can take years. I been in the education realm for years, if they phased out education, I would be truely fucked! It is all I know! All I know how to do is "teach" social studies. I been a musician for years, but what would I do, start a rock band? Hardly! There is only one Van Halen! I would have to resort to giving guitar lessons... Again, I would be truley fucked! I been into BBing for years, but in order to be a personal trainer, you need to have a degree in that field, if you want to make real money. Therefore, I would have to go back to school just to get a piece of paper, that says I am qualified to show someone how to do military presses.. Crazy! I would be able to give the professor a lesson on fitness, however, it does not matter, what counts is that piece of paper.. Costing me more time and more money! This the place some people are at in their lives. The parasites are not the total blame, they do play a big part in the grand scheme of things, but people like you and me sometimes play a role in the unemployment crisis, contrary to what that elitest Plunkey thinks, lol..
 
I agree with you for the most part. Of course there are people who "buck" the system. However, I would not work for anything less than 80,000 a year, would you? Don't you have a couple of Master Degrees? I feel I paid my price by going to college then moving up the ranks by merit. Actually, for me to make less 100,000 a year is absurd, considering all the factors. If I lost my job for some bizarre reason, I would not take a menial job, this might sound like an arrogant statement, however, I feel I am beyond that scene. I think that is one component to why the unemployment rate is high. Some people have paid their dues then they lost their jobs (professionals), to tell them to work at Walmart is ridiculous... There is an "entitlement spirit" in a America, but it is not always the "lazy" people who are jacking up the unemployment rate.

Second, I aleady mentioned cyclical unemployment, which is caused by a recession, so we can shift blame on the government for that type of unemployment, which we all are anxious to do. There is something called structural unemployment: which arises from a mismatch between the skills and characteristics of workers and the requirements of jobs. When they phase out jobs in one area, people have to be trained in other areas, which can take years. I been in the education realm for years, if they phased out education, I would be truely fucked! It is all I know! All I know how to do is "teach" social studies. I been a musician for years, but what would I do, start a rock band? Hardly! There is only one Van Halen! I would have to resort to giving guitar lessons... Again, I would be truley fucked! I been into BBing for years, but in order to be a personal trainer, you need to have a degree in that field, if you want to make real money. Therefore, I would have to go back to school just to get a piece of paper, that says I am qualified to show someone how to do military presses.. Crazy! I would be able to give the professor a lesson on fitness, however, it does not matter, what counts is that piece of paper.. Costing me more time and more money! This the place some people are at in their lives. The parasites are not the total blame, they do play a big part in the grand scheme of things, but people like you and me sometimes play a role in the unemployment crisis, contrary to what that elitest Plunkey thinks, lol..

well...honestly?? i'm self-employed, and during this whole economic downturn, i HAVE been making less than i was before...so, yes...i suppose i would work for less than what my wage used to be...that doesn't mean that i find it acceptable...i do all sorts of extra "mining/exploratory" (i.e., non-billable) work that will (i hope) take me back to where i was before (and beyond)...and i am currently working on a couple more forensic/investigative accounting certifications...i'm not big on sitting around waiting for shit to happen...i have 3 kids and 7 years left to pay on my mortgage...and 7 years left before the first two kids (our twins) head off to college...needless to say, i'm not sitting on my ass waiting for barry to figure this mess out.

anyone who is not willing to work into the wee hours, on a regular basis, sometimes for no additional compensation, will be a victim of the new world order...and i'm not big on being a victim either. :whatever:
 
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1. Valid source or your wrong information ?
The EFFECTIVE tax rate is one of the lowest in the entire industrialized World! And Every one that researches and doesn’t fucking sit and watch the talking heads knows it.
2. US regulation is a broad term. Your dittoing again. Financial regulations have ONLY decreased since the 80’s. Europe has more environmental regulation than the US and is and has not disappeared. Also, you Ignored the fact that I stated there has been NO substantial changes to EPA regulations in the past 8 years. Instead you go on about how bad they are?
3. The all horrible cost of doing business cry. Okay, please explain to me Why in this so called recession that the F500 Corporations and banks have been recording record Quarterly profits since 2009? The market just had its highest close since 2007. Oh yea, business needs more assistance and corporate welfare and lower taxes… There is NO evidence that big business’ are hurting. Squidly, your so Jaded.
Small Business - they are hurting… NOT BECAUSE OF EPA, Not Because of taxes, not because of lawsuits. If anyone thinks that they need to actually look into a new reality. Small Business’ need CUSTOMERS ! CUSTOMERS! There has been extensive research and polling done on these small business’ and the results are conclusive. They want customers. And no customers are coming. Can you answer why there are no customers? Instead of sitting there and barkng about how business needs government assistance.

1) http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

2) EPA is scheduled to regulate CO2
DOL has given NRLB and unions much more power
BarryCare overlays a huge new set of taxes and regulation on 16% of the economy.

Those sure seem like regulations to me.

3) Fortune 500's are doing just fine. And they will only get richer -- regardless of what the US government does. Those companies (and most large companies) can do what is necessary to ship jobs overseas, setup tax havens and diversify their revenue sources globally. Plus for a larger business, when all else fails, you just build the new cost into the price of your product.

Small businesses are the guys getting killed by taxes, regulation and torts. In the name of helping the middle class, the US government is doing the one thing larger companies can't do well -- wipe out the ankle biters. Yes, that's what small businesses with lower overhead structures who are more nimble and sell at lower costs are commonly called -- "ankle biters".
 
1) http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf (Okay? this does not prove that the "Effective" tax rate is any higher/ Nor does it show that the corporate "effective" tax rate is high. there's a disinct difference in the Statutory and Effective tax rates. You obviously dont know the difference because you just posted about Statutory tax rates. Hence, your lost in what you supposedly stand for.)

2) EPA is scheduled to regulate CO2 (There is A "scheduled" regulation, So small business is going to suffer? Yea, Keep drinking the Kool-aid.
DOL has given NRLB and unions much more power (The Unions represent 7% of America's workforce. 7% is not going to ruin the country. And Unions do not effect small business' ,Only Corporations. Again, your regurgitating stupid points.
BarryCare overlays a huge new set of taxes and regulation on 16% of the economy. (So now your changing the subject to the insurance Companies? Are they going to fail and become unprofitable? are they going to fail because they have to play a little bit more fare? last time I checked they are making record profits also. How's those regulations going to hurt small business??? Your points.... Weak...

Those sure seem like regulations to me.
3) Fortune 500's are doing just fine. And they will only get richer -- regardless of what the US government does. Those companies (and most large companies) can do what is necessary to ship jobs overseas, setup tax havens and diversify their revenue sources globally. Plus for a larger business, when all else fails, you just build the new cost into the price of your product.

Small businesses are the guys getting killed by taxes, regulation and torts. In the name of helping the middle class, the US government is doing the one thing larger companies can't do well -- wipe out the ankle biters. Yes, that's what small businesses with lower overhead structures who are more nimble and sell at lower costs are commonly called -- "ankle biters"<-- Small business' are what built this country. And you could give a fuck less about that. "you call them names and want them gone". Un-American. you Sir sound typical Oligarch. Too bad you wouldnt be considered part of the Party.
( Small business' are paying less taxes, have more tax credits, and are getting better loans!!! fuck 45% of the stimulus were tax cuts 15+ billion in small business loans and (if i remember corectly) 65 billion in tax cuts for small business' .
F 500 companies are the ones complaining about Taxes. Small Business' are compalining about no customers. You diverted the fact that I mentioned that. as usual. You can complain about bullshit talking points and Rhetoric, but cant answer how to get customers to the Small buisness'. )

Bro, I'm going to let you in on something. Your under informed. You have no dog in the hunt. You are just a broken record for talking points.
 
Bro, I'm going to let you in on something. Your under informed. You have no dog in the hunt. You are just a broken record for talking points.

1) 35% top rates scheduled to go to 39% are uncompetitively high. Which part of that number is throwing you off? The tens digit or the ones digit?

2) I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who knows about the "scheduled" upcoming EPA regulations. I have a sneaking suspicion that businesses actually plan for things like this before they hit.

Unions don't do that much damage -- Other than poisoning our public education system, destroying our domestic car market, crippling our airline industry, running-off domestic steel production, driving-up metropolitan construction cost and polluting our public workforce (which is entirely too large anyway). Oh yeah... and they're in the process of running the domestic jet airplane manufacturing industry outside of the US.

And why am I not surprised that you think BarryCare is all about insurance companies? Barrycare screws everyone: Hospitals, doctors, patients, insurance companies, medical companies and taxpayers.

3) Small businesses don't have customers because people don't have jobs and because even people with jobs are hunkered-down waiting for the economy to get going again. And under this regime, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

I grew up in a small business which became a medium-sized business. Then became my own small business owner. Then became a member of a very large business (GE). And now I'm back with a medium-sized business. Large businesses will always have the most flexibility in dodging taxes, regulation and torts. Small business will always have the least. And when large businesses sneeze, medium-size businesses catch a cold and small businesses get pneumonia.

I can't expect you to understand this so if all else fails, blame Bush, the banks, Israel, Wall Street, CO2, pesticides and insurance companies.
 
1) 35% top rates scheduled to go to 39% are uncompetitively high. Which part of that number is throwing you off? The tens digit or the ones digit?

2) I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who knows about the "scheduled" upcoming EPA regulations. I have a sneaking suspicion that businesses actually plan for things like this before they hit.

Unions don't do that much damage -- Other than poisoning our public education system, destroying our domestic car market, crippling our airline industry, running-off domestic steel production, driving-up metropolitan construction cost and polluting our public workforce (which is entirely too large anyway). Oh yeah... and they're in the process of running the domestic jet airplane manufacturing industry outside of the US.

And why am I not surprised that you think BarryCare is all about insurance companies? Barrycare screws everyone: Hospitals, doctors, patients, insurance companies, medical companies and taxpayers.

3) Small businesses don't have customers because people don't have jobs and because even people with jobs are hunkered-down waiting for the economy to get going again. And under this regime, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

I grew up in a small business which became a medium-sized business. Then became my own small business owner. Then became a member of a very large business (GE). And now I'm back with a medium-sized business. Large businesses will always have the most flexibility in dodging taxes, regulation and torts. Small business will always have the least. And when large businesses sneeze, medium-size businesses catch a cold and small businesses get pneumonia.

I can't expect you to understand this so if all else fails, blame Bush, the banks, Israel, Wall Street, CO2, pesticides and insurance companies.
1. STATUTORY VS. EFFECTIVE TAX RATES Google it. you dont know the difference. 35% is the statutory. NO corporation pays that. NoNe... Period.



Droid Bionic EF app
 
1. STATUTORY VS. EFFECTIVE TAX RATES Google it. you dont know the difference. 35% is the statutory. NO corporation pays that. NoNe... Period.



Droid Bionic EF app

neither do they in foreign countries where the rate is lower - that is the whole point. Google it.
 
neither do they in foreign countries where the rate is lower - that is the whole point. Google it.

My US based S Corporation pays 0% tax. As do all S Corporations. The us tax code isn't destructive to small business. Poor decisions and tax structures are.
 
We're all debating this thing, and I'm going to make one statement which is simple HARD FACTS: My wife and I operate a small business (farm) in SoCal. We gross (x) per year. We have an excellent accountant, and we are taxed at over 45% of gross... NOT NET. This includes federal, state county, city taxes, plus EPA fines & fees (unavoidable), and permits to operate, permits to possess chemicals, permits to buy red fuel for the equipment, and C.A.R.B. fees to possess tractors and heavy equipment. Those agencies are all unnecessary twittle-thumbs offices for the purpose of making "created government jobs", which are ruining MY ability to hire people. ALSO FACT: We pay $20.00 per hour for an employee who earns $10.00 per hour. In other words, if we can afford a certain number of employees now, we could hire exactly twice as many people TODAY if we did not have to pay all that employment crap. None of it is needed, IMHO.

So we can debate 'til the sun burns out about politics, but the bottom line is that I will hire more people immediately when I do not have to pay 200% of my workers' salary.

Just FYI, we are an S corp, and we haven't drawn a penny of salary in 6 years.

Charles
 
We're all debating this thing, and I'm going to make one statement which is simple HARD FACTS: My wife and I operate a small business (farm) in SoCal. We gross (x) per year. We have an excellent accountant, and we are taxed at over 45% of gross... NOT NET. This includes federal, state county, city taxes, plus EPA fines & fees (unavoidable), and permits to operate, permits to possess chemicals, permits to buy red fuel for the equipment, and C.A.R.B. fees to possess tractors and heavy equipment. Those agencies are all unnecessary twittle-thumbs offices for the purpose of making "created government jobs", which are ruining MY ability to hire people. ALSO FACT: We pay $20.00 per hour for an employee who earns $10.00 per hour. In other words, if we can afford a certain number of employees now, we could hire exactly twice as many people TODAY if we did not have to pay all that employment crap. None of it is needed, IMHO.

So we can debate 'til the sun burns out about politics, but the bottom line is that I will hire more people immediately when I do not have to pay 200% of my workers' salary.

Just FYI, we are an S corp, and we haven't drawn a penny of salary in 6 years.

Charles
You Dont have an excellent Accountant.
And these numbers you put up about your farm, How long has in been like that? I am willing to bet it has been years before Obama. Not to mention CA is one of the worse in taxes. And I am sure most of those Taxes are State NOT federal.


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You Dont have an excellent Accountant.
And these numbers you put up about your farm, How long has in been like that? I am willing to bet it has been years before Obama. Not to mention CA is one of the worse in taxes. And I am sure most of those Taxes are State NOT federal.


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No argument as to the fact that it's been worsening since long before Obama. He's just a puppet like the last 10 presidents. The only thing inflaming about him, versus Bush, is that at least Bush WANTED to fix the economy in an intelligent way, and Obama thinks that a money tree is growing someplace where we just can't quite see it.

The government needs to get pared down to an army/navy/air force & marines, and MAYBE a post office... Every other government entity needs to be disbanded and abolished. Then we won't need all this tax money. We didn't even need federal income tax all the way from 1776 until World War I. Furthermore, the Industrial Revolution happened before any income tax, and people like Henry Ford and other major corporate founders, were only able to build their factories full of happy workers withOUT all the government crap. The US economy grew steadily from 1620 (no thanks to England taxing our pants off for the first 150 years) when the pilgrims showed up at Plymouth Rock, until the 20th century when the government got greedy and the people got lazy. There's proof that all these social programs are bogus.

Charles
 
oh.. you don't pay taxes on the income from that corporation??

They are referring to the fact that S corps have tax liability flow-through just like LLCs do.

But S corps have plenty of restrictions too, such as restrictions on the type and number of shareholders, as well as on the various types of stock that can be sold.

So LLCs and S-corps still have retardedly high taxation rates, but don't double-up on the retardation by double-taxing the shareholders.
 
in an S corp the taxes are passed on to the owners of the corp...so I'm not really sure what difference it makes if you're one of the owners of the corp, I'm not sure how it's zero? Even so, not everyone qualifies to form an S corp especially if you have already formed partnerships involved or more than 100 shareholders..I think you're stuck with the C corp.
 
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1. STATUTORY VS. EFFECTIVE TAX RATES Google it. you dont know the difference. 35% is the statutory. NO corporation pays that. NoNe... Period.



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Small businesses pay near those top rates. They don't have the tools that larger companies have to avoid them.
 
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What the fuck do plunkey, kx250rider, digi and youpissmeoff know about business, regulations, taxation and all that anyway? You silly fucks are just stupid business owners! Go be an employee or better yet...unemployed! Then you too can become experts about everything with all the free time you'll have.

lol @ brownbrown telling plunkey to give sources when he didn't provide any himself.
 
They are referring to the fact that S corps have tax liability flow-through just like LLCs do.

But S corps have plenty of restrictions too, such as restrictions on the type and number of shareholders, as well as on the various types of stock that can be sold.

So LLCs and S-corps still have retardedly high taxation rates, but don't double-up on the retardation by double-taxing the shareholders.

Dude - I am the other fossilized CPA around here. I get all that.
 
No argument as to the fact that it's been worsening since long before Obama. He's just a puppet like the last 10 presidents. The only thing inflaming about him, versus Bush, is that at least Bush WANTED to fix the economy in an intelligent way, and Obama thinks that a money tree is growing someplace where we just can't quite see it.

The government needs to get pared down to an army/navy/air force & marines, and MAYBE a post office... Every other government entity needs to be disbanded and abolished. Then we won't need all this tax money. We didn't even need federal income tax all the way from 1776 until World War I. Furthermore, the Industrial Revolution happened before any income tax, and people like Henry Ford and other major corporate founders, were only able to build their factories full of happy workers withOUT all the government crap. The US economy grew steadily from 1620 (no thanks to England taxing our pants off for the first 150 years) when the pilgrims showed up at Plymouth Rock, until the 20th century when the government got greedy and the people got lazy. There's proof that all these social programs are bogus.

Charles


Bro, I agree big government is bad news. However, prior to 1890, there was no government intervention with state and local affairs. The states handled their own business (no regulation). But there was nobody to put the robber barons in check. Rockefeller (oil), Carnegie (steel), Du Pont (textiles), and Vanderbilt (railroads). Those men were capitalist czars. They monopolized their industries. Shrewd businessmen, who built empires, choked out competition, maintained high prices, kept low wages, and used government subsidies. Therefore, capitalism was turned into imperialism. Progressivism (1890-1910) was spawned because of robber barons. Consequently, government started to get in involved by implementing anti-trust laws and regulations (Elkins Act, Hepburn Act). Second, saftey was a serious issue in relation to the working class (unfair labor conditions). In 1889, according to the Interstate Commerce Commission records, 22,000 railroad workers were killed or injured because there was no saftey precautions.. Unsanitary working conditions were prevalent during that time. Read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, the book gives an excellent description of the Chicago Meat Industry. You might not ever eat meat again if you read that book... Horrible, to say the least, that spawned T. Roosevelt to implement The Pure Food and Drug Act in 1906 (FDA).

In 1885, the gold reserve of the United Sates was depleted, while twenty-six New York City banks had $130 million in gold in their vaults. J.P. Morgan & Company offered to give the government gold in exchange for bonds. President Cleveland agreed. Morgan immediately resold the bonds at higher prices, making $18 million profit. Morgan and the rest of the robber barons were in cahoots with big bankers... controlling the banks, which spawned the Federal Reserve (1913). They also spawned "labor unions," because of unfair labor practices... That is why we are in the shape we are in now... some people are lazy, government is out of control, but you have to look in retrospect to see why things are today----thank you Mr. Morgan, thank you Mr. Carnegie, thank you Mr. Du Pont----you guys were soooo gracious.. Regulaton was indespensible!!!!






This is my rifle. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. Before God I swear this creed: my rifle and myself are defenders of my country, we are the masters of our enemy, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace. Amen.
 
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What the fuck do plunkey, kx250rider, digi and youpissmeoff know about business, regulations, taxation and all that anyway? You silly fucks are just stupid business owners! Go be an employee or better yet...unemployed! Then you too can become experts about everything with all the free time you'll have.

lol @ brownbrown telling plunkey to give sources when he didn't provide any himself.

i haves one of them there masters degrees in taxation...i'm a student of the game holmes...you better recognize :nerd:

oh and, my business is a tax, accounting, consulting, valuation, etc., practice that is taxed as an s-corporation and has employees (other than me)...so, i'm waist deep in it, bitches! :)
 
fuck CEO makes me laugh hahahahahahahahahhahahahaha so fucking funny...fuck everyone in this thread besides digi and ceo
 
What the fuck do plunkey, kx250rider, digi and youpissmeoff know about business, regulations, taxation and all that anyway? You silly fucks are just stupid business owners! Go be an employee or better yet...unemployed! Then you too can become experts about everything with all the free time you'll have.

lol @ brownbrown telling plunkey to give sources when he didn't provide any himself.

Actually I've been an employee of a Mom 'n' Pop retail store on min wage (yes, as an adult), and been unemployed, been a union-wage worker in a factory (during the Bush administration), and been homeless living in a Toyota in my 20s (God willing, only a few days because I got off my a$$ and stopped feeling sorry for myself). So I'd consider myself somewhat experienced on the spectrum of working, owning, and not. There are others here with way more experience in one or more of those circumstances, but I'm not 100% inexperienced.

Charles
 
i haves one of them there masters degrees in taxation...i'm a student of the game holmes...you better recognize :nerd:

oh and, my business is a tax, accounting, consulting, valuation, etc., practice that is taxed as an s-corporation and has employees (other than me)...so, i'm waist deep in it, bitches! :)

it's pretty obvious you don't know shit. You're too busy working all the time to study up on the economy, regulations, unions, and everything else...I mean EVERYTHING in order to be half the expert as others ITT.
 
Actually I've been an employee of a Mom 'n' Pop retail store on min wage (yes, as an adult), and been unemployed, been a union-wage worker in a factory (during the Bush administration), and been homeless living in a Toyota in my 20s (God willing, only a few days because I got off my a$$ and stopped feeling sorry for myself). So I'd consider myself somewhat experienced on the spectrum of working, owning, and not. There are others here with way more experience in one or more of those circumstances, but I'm not 100% inexperienced.

Charles

Then it's obvious you've forgotten not only how it feels to be unemployed, but you forgot all everything you learned while unemployed. Plus, we have the internet now. So, you should become unemployed and spend all day online reading and learning everything about EVERYTHING in order to become an expert. Don't worry, it should all come together quickly. Google will make it easy.
 
it's pretty obvious you don't know shit. You're too busy working all the time to study up on the economy, regulations, unions, and everything else...I mean EVERYTHING in order to be half the expert as others ITT.

well...actually i kinda have to have a grasp on all that stuff for my valuation work...the economy, regulations (tax, environmental, labor, etc.), unions and everything else are analyzed in-depth, as of the valuation date, to develop an opinion on the risks faced by the hypothetical willing buyer which, in-turn, feeds into your capitalization/discount rate and/or your discount for lack of marketability.

ps: i know you're being a bit sarcastic...but, i love to hear the sound of my own voice, or pen, as it were.
 
Then it's obvious you've forgotten not only how it feels to be unemployed, but you forgot all everything you learned while unemployed. Plus, we have the internet now. So, you should become unemployed and spend all day online reading and learning everything about EVERYTHING in order to become an expert. Don't worry, it should all come together quickly. Google will make it easy.

If so, I guess I'd be in for a rude awakening... But it's how I'd react to that rude awakening that sets me apart from habitual unemployed people. I can't imagine that if I were suddenly out of income or unemployed tomorrow, that I couldn't find some kind of a job within a couple weeks. It might be digging ditches, but it would be work, and I'm not ashamed to do it, unlike some of the whining protesters out there with a degree, caterwalling about not getting hired into a $100K/yr job straight out of yuppie universities. I forgot to mention that on harder times, I mucked out horse stalls in the rain at 5:00 in the morning for several months including on Christmas Day, despite that I have an ISO9001 and 9002 certification as an electronics technician, and a minor in written journalism. Sure, I'd rather have walked into the LA Times and gotten a job in the editing dept for $65K, or walked into Boeing and landed something there for $200K, but those jobs weren't available... Mucking stalls was. So whether or not I forgot what it's like (and all due respect, I don't think I forgot), I'd remember REAL FAST and get myself out of the unemployment predicament sooner than later.

Charles
 
The serial unemployed do not try, simply put.
They are afraid of failure and a host of other things. (hard work)
People who make money take the necessary risks, work hard, and are intelligent.
They didn't teach me much of anything about how to make money in school, they were too busy taking my money to give a shit.
 
My girlfriends job keeps laying everyone off and calling them back, can they collect unemployment for the days their laid off?
 
My girlfriends job keeps laying everyone off and calling them back, can they collect unemployment for the days their laid off?

Yes. At least in my state they can. A friend of mine has a rolling layoff week every six weeks. And he can collect unemployment for that week each time.
 
My girlfriends job keeps laying everyone off and calling them back, can they collect unemployment for the days their laid off?

yeah but that is a stupid way for the company to manage the employees. Everytime someone collects unemployment, their unemploymnet tax is going to go up.
 
What a loser your friend is

Yeah, what a douche being spent home every six weeks so his boss can maintain a 20 million dollar yacht in the keys, a condo for entertaining friends, 1200 acre hunting preserve for his kids and friends (while calling it a corporate education center) and driving a brand new $90,000 BMW every year.

/rolls eyes
 
yeah but that is a stupid way for the company to manage the employees. Everytime someone collects unemployment, their unemploymnet tax is going to go up.

Apparently it doesn't go up enough to convince his boss to not do it. This has been an on going thing for over two years.
 
Apparently it doesn't go up enough to convince his boss to not do it. This has been an on going thing for over two years.

They should make him file the unemployment tax return for a year. He would understand that a bit better. At least where I am - you would not do that.
 
Another fact about collecting unemployment during seasonal layoffs: At least in CA, your boss must share the cost of your unemployment benefits, and he/she knows who's collecting and who isn't. Guess what: If you collect those benefits and cost your boss during the layoff, and a co-worker doesn't, guess which one of you will be the first one hired back, with the boss knowing who might and might not do it again?

Charles
 
lol @ brownbrown telling plunkey to give sources when he didn't provide any himself.
I did that because Squidly Plunk's last source was the Heritage foundation.
No Disrespect to Digi and K250. They are good honest and fair dudes.
But owning a business doesn't make them business masters.
Bankruptcy:
Gary Went
Tom Kivisto
Richard Fuld
Sam Zell
Phillip Shoonover
and Donald trump (3 or 4 times?)
All of these guys have well over a century of business experience high degrees' from Ivy league schools (well maybe not Trump) and all have Bombed.
 
I did that because Squidly Plunk's last source was the Heritage foundation.
No Disrespect to Digi and K250. They are good honest and fair dudes.
But owning a business doesn't make them business masters.
Bankruptcy:
Gary Went
Tom Kivisto
Richard Fuld
Sam Zell
Phillip Shoonover
and Donald trump (3 or 4 times?)
All of these guys have well over a century of business experience high degrees' from Ivy league schools (well maybe not Trump) and all have Bombed.

Then perhaps you could enlighten us with your business resume. You seem to have some passionate views on businesses and how they should be regulated. On what real life experience do you base your opinions?
 
I did that because Squidly Plunk's last source was the Heritage foundation.
No Disrespect to Digi and K250. They are good honest and fair dudes.
But owning a business doesn't make them business masters.
Bankruptcy:
Gary Went
Tom Kivisto
Richard Fuld
Sam Zell
Phillip Shoonover
and Donald trump (3 or 4 times?)
All of these guys have well over a century of business experience high degrees' from Ivy league schools (well maybe not Trump) and all have Bombed.

well...the business that i own/operate does involve significant amounts of time valuing other businesses for purchases, sales, mergers and acquisitions, divorces, shareholder disputes, etc...i'm also deeply involved in long-term business planning for various clients, taking all facets of their respective business (cash flow, debt-financing, tax, environmental, regulatory, etc.) into consideration...and, at any given time i have half a dozen or so start-ups and/or recent acquisition clients whose hands i am holding as they navigate the treacherous waters of the first five years of business ownership...and, i've been doing this for approximately 20 years...but, you're probably right, i probably don't know that much about successfully operating a small business (and when i say small, i'm talking about gross receipts less than $25 million per year)...oh and, honestly?? i've learned WAY more from the business owners that i work with (both successful and unsuccessful) than i EVER learned sitting in any classroom.

ps: the ivy league is where you go to make high-profile business connections, while you're receiving your education...the business education that you receive at those schools isn't any better than you can get at penn state or pitt or lycoming, etc...you just pay a lot more for it...a chevy will get you to the bank just as well as a ferrari...the ferrari may get you there a little faster...or you might wrap it around a utility pole along the way :whatever:
 
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well...the business that i own/operate does involve significant amounts of time valuing other businesses for purchases, sales, mergers and acquisitions, divorces, shareholder disputes, etc...i'm also deeply involved in long-term business planning for various clients, taking all facets of their respective business (cash flow, debt-financing, tax, environmental, regulatory, etc.) into consideration...and, at any given time i have half a dozen or so start-ups and/or recent acquisition clients whose hands i am holding as they navigate the treacherous waters of the first five years of business ownership...and, i've been doing this for approximately 20 years...but, you're probably right, i probably don't know that much about successfully operating a small business (and when i say small, i'm talking about gross receipts less than $25 million per year)...oh and, honestly?? i've learned WAY more from the business owners that i work with (both successful and unsuccessful) than i EVER learned sitting in any classroom.

Looking at lots of deals is a great way to learn a ton about business. That's got to be great experience.
 
The very employable will get jobs, they might just not be the jobs they want (or at the pay they want).

The unemployable will be more unemployable than ever.

The new problem will the the ones that were employable two years ago that employers don't want to risk since they've been idle for so long. Those are the people who will be trapped. If I had to choose between a 22 year old straight out of college and a 24 year old who graduated two years ago and sat idle, I'd be biased to chose the 22 year old.

Didn't read the rest of the thread past here yet, but any person that age saying they haven't done shit in 2 years doesn't deserve to get the job.

When I finished my undergrad in '09, I got a job right out of school. Then a friend and I planned on moving, but she had to save up so one day she calls me and says she's ready so we make arrangements and I put in my 2 weeks. Then she bailed and I was left jobless.

I looked for jobs for a couple months, but I couldn't find anything because people were hiring over-qualified candidates for what they would've paid me because they could. Long story short, I took an unpaid internship for a couple months and got a job out of it. It's only a couple months, and if you aren't getting paid anyways, might as well at least be doing some work in your field so that even if it doesn't turn in to a job, you can say to other potential places of employment that you haven't been sitting on your ass for months or years doing nothing.

There's always work to be done or something to do to fill what would become a huge time gap on a resume. The problem is just that people my age think they deserve to get out of college and find the perfect job with an awesome salary.

So yeah, it's their own fault, IMO. There's really no good reason for large unemployment gaps.
 
Looking at lots of deals is a great way to learn a ton about business. That's got to be great experience.

the economic conditions that we've been living with for the last couple of years has made my job (i.e., predicting the future) a little trickier, though :lmao:
 
the economic conditions that we've been living with for the last couple of years has made my job (i.e., predicting the future) a little trickier, though :lmao:

Right now, I'm seeing that cash is king. The current conditions are killing-off cash intensive businesses and favoring ones that don't need as much working capital.
 
Didn't read the rest of the thread past here yet, but any person that age saying they haven't done shit in 2 years doesn't deserve to get the job.

When I finished my undergrad in '09, I got a job right out of school. Then a friend and I planned on moving, but she had to save up so one day she calls me and says she's ready so we make arrangements and I put in my 2 weeks. Then she bailed and I was left jobless.

I looked for jobs for a couple months, but I couldn't find anything because people were hiring over-qualified candidates for what they would've paid me because they could. Long story short, I took an unpaid internship for a couple months and got a job out of it. It's only a couple months, and if you aren't getting paid anyways, might as well at least be doing some work in your field so that even if it doesn't turn in to a job, you can say to other potential places of employment that you haven't been sitting on your ass for months or years doing nothing.

There's always work to be done or something to do to fill what would become a huge time gap on a resume. The problem is just that people my age think they deserve to get out of college and find the perfect job with an awesome salary.

So yeah, it's their own fault, IMO. There's really no good reason for large unemployment gaps.

I completely agree. Internships are a great way to avoid an employment gap, gain experience and often lead to a job at that company.

Today's everyone-gets-a-trophy generation doesn't understand that so instead, they sit around bitching about the jobs market.
 
Right now, I'm seeing that cash is king. The current conditions are killing-off cash intensive businesses and favoring ones that don't need as much working capital.

well, i suppose that's true to a certain extent...however, i believe that the current state of affairs with regard to the banking industry is that most have a lot of cash to lend, but they are waaaayyyyy more selective about who they give it too and how much they give...and i don't see that condition changing anytime soon...i have a number of (successful) clients (all them manufacturers that are highly capital and labor intensive) that have been in full-on expansion mode for the last 12 to 18 months and the banks are calling them, trying to give them more money.
 
well, i suppose that's true to a certain extent...however, i believe that the current state of affairs with regard to the banking industry is that most have a lot of cash to lend, but they are waaaayyyyy more selective about who they give it too and how much they give...and i don't see that condition changing anytime soon...i have a number of (successful) clients (all them manufacturers that are highly capital and labor intensive) that have been in full-on expansion mode for the last 12 to 18 months and the banks are calling them, trying to give them more money.

Oh, the businesses that don't need it can most definitely get it. We're noticing that a lot of our smaller suppliers are hurting badly though. We purchased one of them this year (finalizing it this month) and will probably buy two of them this coming year.
 
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