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swole
Well-known member
HCG and HMG fascinate me, really. They keep our boys active, makes us feel better, makes us fertile...basically restore manhood. I believe we need to find an ideal dosage via research and experimentation on ourselves to really get the most out of it.
Here's something to try if you're on test...and I believe Wulfgar has mentioned he does this:
Are you injecting HCG/HMG while on test? At what point of the ester half life are you doing that? Toward the end of a cyp half life (5-8 days) to get androgen levels back up before injecting the cyp again? I believe Wulfgar will inject cyp then wait a week, inject HCG, wait another 3 days, then inject the cyp again. I will let him chime in when he sees this
Also - why doesn't HMG raise E2 values like HCG does?
Is it because HCG stimulates LH production which raises test and therefore it converts to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme?
As opposed to HMG actually being LH and FSH?
Something worth reading by John Crisler, DO:
It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.
In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).
I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.
While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.
Source: Copyright John Crisler, DO 2004. This article may, in its entirety or in part, be reprinted and republished without permission, provided that credit is given to its author, with copyright notice and All Things Male - Center for Men's Health clearly displayed as source. Written permission from Dr. Crisler is required for all other uses.
While the above article is focused mainly on TRT, some of us still use a baseline of test in conjunction with other compounds for growth. Nelson made a lot of sense when he said test is very suppressive; what else can falsely replace your body's own natural supply than exogenous test?
Here's something to try if you're on test...and I believe Wulfgar has mentioned he does this:
Are you injecting HCG/HMG while on test? At what point of the ester half life are you doing that? Toward the end of a cyp half life (5-8 days) to get androgen levels back up before injecting the cyp again? I believe Wulfgar will inject cyp then wait a week, inject HCG, wait another 3 days, then inject the cyp again. I will let him chime in when he sees this
Also - why doesn't HMG raise E2 values like HCG does?
Is it because HCG stimulates LH production which raises test and therefore it converts to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme?
As opposed to HMG actually being LH and FSH?
Something worth reading by John Crisler, DO:
It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.
In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).
I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.
While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.
Source: Copyright John Crisler, DO 2004. This article may, in its entirety or in part, be reprinted and republished without permission, provided that credit is given to its author, with copyright notice and All Things Male - Center for Men's Health clearly displayed as source. Written permission from Dr. Crisler is required for all other uses.
While the above article is focused mainly on TRT, some of us still use a baseline of test in conjunction with other compounds for growth. Nelson made a lot of sense when he said test is very suppressive; what else can falsely replace your body's own natural supply than exogenous test?
