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Help! What can I do to fix sloping shoulders??
- Thread starter Leander
- Start date
Doktor Bollix
New member
Sounds like a protracted shoulder girdle, this is a posture problem caused by tight muscles some places and loose muscles others. I have the same issue and I've been working on it for 2 years and it has improved quite a bit. This could be a lot of things. Overly contracted pecs with muscle imbalance with the back muscles (this would be a training fault and you did mention the pecs, since in untrained individuals the back muscles tend to be cronically tensed and cause posture problems). You probably have bad posture, just like most everybody. I'd bet the farm you carry your head too far forward, also, though I doubt you are aware of it and are now disagreeing fervently. If you are tall it's a virtual certainty.
What has helped me a lot is deadlifts with the shoulder blades retracted. Powerlifters will tell you not to do this 'cos retracting the shoulders causes the shoulder girdle to elevate, increasing the distance the bar moves. But until your powerlifting career starts taking off, pull back those shoulders and squeeeeze.
Here's the terminology:
http://www.exrx.net/Adaptation/Posture.html
Common Postural Deficiencies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Winged Scapula
Inferior angle of scapula protrude slightly from body. A winged scapula condition may be accompanied by a protracted shoulder girdle. Risk of shoulder injury is compounded with a supraspinatus weakness or an external shoulder rotation inflexibility. Because of the forward tilt of the scapula, complete flexion of the shoulder may be seemingly restricted. A winged scapula condition indicates a definite serratus anterior weakness. The rhomboids may weak and the pectoralis minor may be short.
Examples of affected exercises:
Shoulder Press
Pullovers
Pulldowns
Example preventative / corrective exercises:
Incline Shoulder Raise
Cable Row
Pectoralis Minor Stretch
Wall Lat Stretch
Protracted Shoulder Girdle
The shoulders are pulled forward. Medial border of the scapula may also protrude slightly from body.
Increased risk of shoulder injury during shoulder transverse flexion and transverse adduction activities, specifically when elbow travels behind shoulder. Risk of shoulder injury is compounded with a infraspinatus weakness. Possible limited range of motion during retraction of the shoulder girdle. A protracted shoulder girdle may be accompanied by a winged scapula condition. pectoralis minor and clavicular & sternal heads of the pectoralis major muscles are short. The trapezius (middle fibers) and particularly the rhomboids may be weak if the medial borders of the scapula also protrude slightly from body.
Examples of affected exercises:
Bench Press
Chest Press
Flies
Example preventative / corrective exercises:
Pectoralis Minor Stretch
Wall Pectoralis Minor Stretch
Cable Row
Lordosis
Pelvis is position forward and downward. Hips are slightly flexed and lumbar spine is excessively hyperextended. Hip flexors, erector spinae are short. Abdominal, hamstrings, gluteus maximus muscles may be weak. Increased risk of lower back injury during standing or lying hip extension, flexion, or stabilization activities, and weighted overhead activities. See abdominal weakness and hip flexor inflexibility.
Examples of affected exercises:
Squat
Hack Squat
Military Press (standing)
Roman Chair Situp
Example preventative / corrective exercises:
Hip Flexor: Lunging Hip Flexor Stretch
Erector Spinae: Lower Back Stretch
Abdominal: Crunches
Hamstrings: Leg Curl
Gluteus: Seated Leg Press
Here's some exercises. These isolation exercises are good, but deadlifts hit everything IMHO.
http://www.ironmag.com/ct_posture_correction.html
Posture correction through training
Part 1: Dealing with a cyphosis-lordosis
By Chris Thibaudeau, December 3, 1999. © Iron Magazine Online
Posture refers to the position taken by your body. It includes the positioning of all your body parts at one given time. A bad posture it either caused by genetic dispositions, bad habits or muscle strength and flexibility imbalances. A bad posture can lead to many problems including back pain, neck pain, knee problems, increased fatigue, and sub-optimal performances due to less then optimal mechanical levers. It is thus important to improve your posture by as much as you can, to prevent these problems from happening.
Because of modern society most peoples have some postural imperfections. This is mainly due to bad habits and structural imbalances. Take the neck position for example. Most peoples have a forward neck posture; their head leans forward (this is especially true of teenagers). They are not born this way, they get this way. How? By watching too much television, working on their computers too much or reading too much. These actions all force you to adopt a working posture where the head is leaning forward. In the long run, by overworking certain muscles and over-stretching others, this head posture becomes "permanent". How is this significant? Well you might not be aware of it but for every centimeter (or 1/2 inch) that your head is displaced forward there is an additional 10 pounds of pressure placed on your spine and back. Can you imagine the strain caused at the end of a full day? No? Try walking with a 10 pounds dumbbell attached to your head for a little while!
It is a well-known fact that back pain is one of the biggest health problems in America. After the common cold it is the second most important reason for missed days of work. In fact 4 men out of 5 will suffer from significant back pain during their life! Of course some back problems are due to external stress, but most problems are due to bad posture and thus can be corrected in most cases. This first article will deal with the most common postural problem: the cyphosis-lordosis posture.
The cyphosis-lordosis posture compared to the ideal posture
Take a look at images 1 and 2. Image1 represent the ideal posture while image 2 represent an accentuated cyphosis-lordosis posture.
Image 1. The ideal posture
Image 2. Cyphosis-lordosis posture
The characteristics of a cyphosis-lordosis posture in relation to the ideal posture include:
A forward projection of the head
An hyperextension of the neck
An accentuated cyphosis (rounded upper back)
An accentuated lordosis (inward curve of the lower back)
A forward rotation of the hips
A protruding posterior
A slight hyperextension of the knees
A forward projection of the shoulders
This type of posture is due mainly to:
Excessively strong and/or tight neck extensor muscles
Excessively strong and/or tight illiopsoas muscles
Weak neck flexors
Weak abdominal muscles
Weak hamstrings
Excessively strong and/or tight pectoral muscles in relation to the upper back
This posture is very common in most strength trainees; especially those who do a lot of upper body training and neglect body parts that are not necessarily referred to as showy muscles.
This type of posture can lead to the following problems:
Lower back pain
Neck pain
Knee pain
Bench press stagnation
Excessive lower-back pain in the deadlift
Protruding gut despite low amount of body fat
To correct this type of posture you might want to:
Strengthen your neck flexors
Strengthen your hamstrings
Strengthen all your abdominal muscles
Stretch your pectoral and shoulder muscles
Stretch your psoas muscles
Here are a few examples of exercises that can be used to help correct a cyphosis-lordosis posture:
Image 3. Neck flexors exercise
This exercise is extremely easy to do. Simply grab a weight, lie down on a bench, place the weight on your forehead, fully extend your neck and "curl" the weight using only your neck muscles (the hands only hold the weight on your head).
Follow this progression on this exercise:
Neck flexions (3 times per week)
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5
Week 6
Week 7
Week 8
Flexions
3 x 12
4 x 12
5 x 12
4 x 12
4 x 10
5 x 10
6 x 10
5 x 10
Image 4. Half Romanian pull
This exercise is a little trickier; you must learn to perform it to really work on your hamstrings and not on your lower back.
Hold the bar in a finished deadlift position, bend the knees slightly
Lower the bar slowly while grazing your quadriceps, extend your knees slightly as you lower the bar and push your hips backward. Lower the bar just higher then your knees
Lift the bar using the mirror motion of the descent. Pull your hips forward and graze your quadriceps as you lift the bar.
You will know immediately if you are performing this exercise well. You should feel a lot of tension in your hamstrings and very little in your lower back. If you don't feel much tension in your hamstrings you are not pushing your hips backward enough or the bar is leaving your quadriceps. For this exercise you use 50-60% of your maximum deadlift poundage.
Half Romanian Deadlifts (3 times per week)
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5
Week 6
Week 7
Week 8
HRDL
2 x 12
3 x 12
4 x 12
3 x 12
3 x 10
4 x 10
5 x 10
4 x 10
Image 5. External obliques exercise
Image 6. Pre-stretched crunches (rectus abdominis exercise)
Image 7. Swiss ball extension drill (whole abdominal wall)
Image 8. Reverse crunches (lower portion of the rectus abdominis)
These preceding exercises are simple examples of good abs exercises. For more on the subject of abdominal training I suggest that you read my article on the subject available on this web page.
Image 9. Stretching exercise for the pectoral and shoulder muscles
If you have been reading my previous articles you are probably already familiar with this exercise. You also know that I recommend that you use the PNF stretching method. For those of you who are new to this web page, here is a simple explanation of the PNF method, which is used in the preceding stretch:
Assume a stretching position where there is a little discomfort in the stretched muscle
Contract the stretched muscles for 6 seconds
Relax the muscles and stretch a little further
Contract the stretched muscles for 6 seconds
Relax the muscles and stretch a little further
Contract the stretched muscles for 6 seconds
This exercise is also performed three times per week and requires the help of a good training partner who can learn quickly how to administer PNF stretching.
Image 10. Psoas muscles stretch 1
This stretch also uses the PNF method but doesn't require a partner. As you can see you stretch, then contract, stretch a little further and so on. This exercise is also performed three times per week.
Of course, all the preceding exercises were merely examples of good exercises to use. I encourage you to understand these exercises and what they do. Then you can find others exercises that can accomplish the same function just as well and thus you can vary your training from time to time.
The preceding recommendations might not seem extremely interesting right now, after all most peoples are more interested in a big chest and biceps then in a good solid posture. However once you start suffering from back pain you might start to ask yourself why in hell you discarded that crazy canuck's advice! I believe in prevention rather than medication! This sample routine, on top of your regular training program will keep you body healthy. Not to mention that a good posture will enable you to lift more weight, also keep in mind that everybody looks better standing straight and proud rather than all slouched up!
Chris Thibaudeau
By the way, I also became nearly an inch taller! despite having stopped growing 10 years ago, by improving my posture, I'm now almost 6'4 though I was 6'3" a few years ago. I still carry my head forward a bit though.
What has helped me a lot is deadlifts with the shoulder blades retracted. Powerlifters will tell you not to do this 'cos retracting the shoulders causes the shoulder girdle to elevate, increasing the distance the bar moves. But until your powerlifting career starts taking off, pull back those shoulders and squeeeeze.
Here's the terminology:
http://www.exrx.net/Adaptation/Posture.html
Common Postural Deficiencies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Winged Scapula
Inferior angle of scapula protrude slightly from body. A winged scapula condition may be accompanied by a protracted shoulder girdle. Risk of shoulder injury is compounded with a supraspinatus weakness or an external shoulder rotation inflexibility. Because of the forward tilt of the scapula, complete flexion of the shoulder may be seemingly restricted. A winged scapula condition indicates a definite serratus anterior weakness. The rhomboids may weak and the pectoralis minor may be short.
Examples of affected exercises:
Shoulder Press
Pullovers
Pulldowns
Example preventative / corrective exercises:
Incline Shoulder Raise
Cable Row
Pectoralis Minor Stretch
Wall Lat Stretch
Protracted Shoulder Girdle
The shoulders are pulled forward. Medial border of the scapula may also protrude slightly from body.
Increased risk of shoulder injury during shoulder transverse flexion and transverse adduction activities, specifically when elbow travels behind shoulder. Risk of shoulder injury is compounded with a infraspinatus weakness. Possible limited range of motion during retraction of the shoulder girdle. A protracted shoulder girdle may be accompanied by a winged scapula condition. pectoralis minor and clavicular & sternal heads of the pectoralis major muscles are short. The trapezius (middle fibers) and particularly the rhomboids may be weak if the medial borders of the scapula also protrude slightly from body.
Examples of affected exercises:
Bench Press
Chest Press
Flies
Example preventative / corrective exercises:
Pectoralis Minor Stretch
Wall Pectoralis Minor Stretch
Cable Row
Lordosis
Pelvis is position forward and downward. Hips are slightly flexed and lumbar spine is excessively hyperextended. Hip flexors, erector spinae are short. Abdominal, hamstrings, gluteus maximus muscles may be weak. Increased risk of lower back injury during standing or lying hip extension, flexion, or stabilization activities, and weighted overhead activities. See abdominal weakness and hip flexor inflexibility.
Examples of affected exercises:
Squat
Hack Squat
Military Press (standing)
Roman Chair Situp
Example preventative / corrective exercises:
Hip Flexor: Lunging Hip Flexor Stretch
Erector Spinae: Lower Back Stretch
Abdominal: Crunches
Hamstrings: Leg Curl
Gluteus: Seated Leg Press
Here's some exercises. These isolation exercises are good, but deadlifts hit everything IMHO.
http://www.ironmag.com/ct_posture_correction.html
Posture correction through training
Part 1: Dealing with a cyphosis-lordosis
By Chris Thibaudeau, December 3, 1999. © Iron Magazine Online
Posture refers to the position taken by your body. It includes the positioning of all your body parts at one given time. A bad posture it either caused by genetic dispositions, bad habits or muscle strength and flexibility imbalances. A bad posture can lead to many problems including back pain, neck pain, knee problems, increased fatigue, and sub-optimal performances due to less then optimal mechanical levers. It is thus important to improve your posture by as much as you can, to prevent these problems from happening.
Because of modern society most peoples have some postural imperfections. This is mainly due to bad habits and structural imbalances. Take the neck position for example. Most peoples have a forward neck posture; their head leans forward (this is especially true of teenagers). They are not born this way, they get this way. How? By watching too much television, working on their computers too much or reading too much. These actions all force you to adopt a working posture where the head is leaning forward. In the long run, by overworking certain muscles and over-stretching others, this head posture becomes "permanent". How is this significant? Well you might not be aware of it but for every centimeter (or 1/2 inch) that your head is displaced forward there is an additional 10 pounds of pressure placed on your spine and back. Can you imagine the strain caused at the end of a full day? No? Try walking with a 10 pounds dumbbell attached to your head for a little while!
It is a well-known fact that back pain is one of the biggest health problems in America. After the common cold it is the second most important reason for missed days of work. In fact 4 men out of 5 will suffer from significant back pain during their life! Of course some back problems are due to external stress, but most problems are due to bad posture and thus can be corrected in most cases. This first article will deal with the most common postural problem: the cyphosis-lordosis posture.
The cyphosis-lordosis posture compared to the ideal posture
Take a look at images 1 and 2. Image1 represent the ideal posture while image 2 represent an accentuated cyphosis-lordosis posture.
Image 1. The ideal posture
Image 2. Cyphosis-lordosis posture
The characteristics of a cyphosis-lordosis posture in relation to the ideal posture include:
A forward projection of the head
An hyperextension of the neck
An accentuated cyphosis (rounded upper back)
An accentuated lordosis (inward curve of the lower back)
A forward rotation of the hips
A protruding posterior
A slight hyperextension of the knees
A forward projection of the shoulders
This type of posture is due mainly to:
Excessively strong and/or tight neck extensor muscles
Excessively strong and/or tight illiopsoas muscles
Weak neck flexors
Weak abdominal muscles
Weak hamstrings
Excessively strong and/or tight pectoral muscles in relation to the upper back
This posture is very common in most strength trainees; especially those who do a lot of upper body training and neglect body parts that are not necessarily referred to as showy muscles.
This type of posture can lead to the following problems:
Lower back pain
Neck pain
Knee pain
Bench press stagnation
Excessive lower-back pain in the deadlift
Protruding gut despite low amount of body fat
To correct this type of posture you might want to:
Strengthen your neck flexors
Strengthen your hamstrings
Strengthen all your abdominal muscles
Stretch your pectoral and shoulder muscles
Stretch your psoas muscles
Here are a few examples of exercises that can be used to help correct a cyphosis-lordosis posture:
Image 3. Neck flexors exercise
This exercise is extremely easy to do. Simply grab a weight, lie down on a bench, place the weight on your forehead, fully extend your neck and "curl" the weight using only your neck muscles (the hands only hold the weight on your head).
Follow this progression on this exercise:
Neck flexions (3 times per week)
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5
Week 6
Week 7
Week 8
Flexions
3 x 12
4 x 12
5 x 12
4 x 12
4 x 10
5 x 10
6 x 10
5 x 10
Image 4. Half Romanian pull
This exercise is a little trickier; you must learn to perform it to really work on your hamstrings and not on your lower back.
Hold the bar in a finished deadlift position, bend the knees slightly
Lower the bar slowly while grazing your quadriceps, extend your knees slightly as you lower the bar and push your hips backward. Lower the bar just higher then your knees
Lift the bar using the mirror motion of the descent. Pull your hips forward and graze your quadriceps as you lift the bar.
You will know immediately if you are performing this exercise well. You should feel a lot of tension in your hamstrings and very little in your lower back. If you don't feel much tension in your hamstrings you are not pushing your hips backward enough or the bar is leaving your quadriceps. For this exercise you use 50-60% of your maximum deadlift poundage.
Half Romanian Deadlifts (3 times per week)
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5
Week 6
Week 7
Week 8
HRDL
2 x 12
3 x 12
4 x 12
3 x 12
3 x 10
4 x 10
5 x 10
4 x 10
Image 5. External obliques exercise
Image 6. Pre-stretched crunches (rectus abdominis exercise)
Image 7. Swiss ball extension drill (whole abdominal wall)
Image 8. Reverse crunches (lower portion of the rectus abdominis)
These preceding exercises are simple examples of good abs exercises. For more on the subject of abdominal training I suggest that you read my article on the subject available on this web page.
Image 9. Stretching exercise for the pectoral and shoulder muscles
If you have been reading my previous articles you are probably already familiar with this exercise. You also know that I recommend that you use the PNF stretching method. For those of you who are new to this web page, here is a simple explanation of the PNF method, which is used in the preceding stretch:
Assume a stretching position where there is a little discomfort in the stretched muscle
Contract the stretched muscles for 6 seconds
Relax the muscles and stretch a little further
Contract the stretched muscles for 6 seconds
Relax the muscles and stretch a little further
Contract the stretched muscles for 6 seconds
This exercise is also performed three times per week and requires the help of a good training partner who can learn quickly how to administer PNF stretching.
Image 10. Psoas muscles stretch 1
This stretch also uses the PNF method but doesn't require a partner. As you can see you stretch, then contract, stretch a little further and so on. This exercise is also performed three times per week.
Of course, all the preceding exercises were merely examples of good exercises to use. I encourage you to understand these exercises and what they do. Then you can find others exercises that can accomplish the same function just as well and thus you can vary your training from time to time.
The preceding recommendations might not seem extremely interesting right now, after all most peoples are more interested in a big chest and biceps then in a good solid posture. However once you start suffering from back pain you might start to ask yourself why in hell you discarded that crazy canuck's advice! I believe in prevention rather than medication! This sample routine, on top of your regular training program will keep you body healthy. Not to mention that a good posture will enable you to lift more weight, also keep in mind that everybody looks better standing straight and proud rather than all slouched up!
Chris Thibaudeau
By the way, I also became nearly an inch taller! despite having stopped growing 10 years ago, by improving my posture, I'm now almost 6'4 though I was 6'3" a few years ago. I still carry my head forward a bit though.
Doktor Bollix
New member
I'm going to see a Rolfing practictioner (or Rolfer) soon, as I live near several practitioners:
http://www.rolf.org/about/
They basically stretch the shit out your muscle fascia and break up adhesions to restore structural integrity. I hear it hurts like being tortured by Mossad.
Active Release is similar
http://www.activerelease.com/locator/index.cfm
but I think it is more suited to treating injuries.
Something to think about if you live near one.
http://www.rolf.org/about/
They basically stretch the shit out your muscle fascia and break up adhesions to restore structural integrity. I hear it hurts like being tortured by Mossad.
Active Release is similar
http://www.activerelease.com/locator/index.cfm
but I think it is more suited to treating injuries.
Something to think about if you live near one.
GreenMountain
New member
Check out the "Egoscue Method", there are a few books related to this, as well as a web site www.egoscue.com
It works and it's simple, and you can do it by yourself in your house. Basically it consists of several non-weight excecises, and stretches to put your body back into it's "anatomically functional" state.
Several pro-athletes have started this and have shown great results. It is not just for injury rehab. In fact, it's more for prevention of injury. Check it out.
It works and it's simple, and you can do it by yourself in your house. Basically it consists of several non-weight excecises, and stretches to put your body back into it's "anatomically functional" state.
Several pro-athletes have started this and have shown great results. It is not just for injury rehab. In fact, it's more for prevention of injury. Check it out.
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