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kethnaab
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This FAQ is meant to be a basic "starting point" for bodybuilders to understand what is going on when someone starts discussing "Westside". It is not all-encompassing, it is basic. I try to use terms that a newb/intermediate bodybuilder might understand, but this is, in NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, a newb/intermediate training program. Unless you have a very experienced strength coach who understands Westside, or unless you have been lifting weights for a LOOOOOOONG time, you would do best to steer clear of this due to the volume of near-limit training it involves as well as the knowledge requirement of Dual Factor training and how to manage fitness and fatigue.
Why discuss a powerlifting program in a bodybuilding forum? Because this is a program that can help you get strong, and any non-chemically assisted trainee who thinks he can get big without getting strong is smoking crack. You can't do it. Guys on steroids don't NEED to be strong to be
big. Guys not on steroids MUST get strong in order to get big. Please do not debate this issue with me here. Debate it (and lose) elsewhere. That being said, chemically assisted trainees can get TONS of useful training ideas from the Westside training methods, and can get incredibly huge just by following the basic program and eating a good mass-building (i.e. bulking) diet.
So here it is. "Just the basics, ma'am." This should give you enough of a foundation in the Westside methods of training so that you can at least read and understand some of the stuff that Louie Simmons puts out. These are the questions I've had most asked of me.
What is Westside training?
"Westside training" is, in its basic format, a powerlifting program "designed" by Louie Simmons and evolved by Louie, Dave Tate, Jim Wendler and a
bunch of the fellows at Westside Barbell in Ohio. It is designed around the Conjugate method and has proven itself to be incredibly effective for the
advanced trainee.
What is the Conjugate method?
The Conjugate method is not actually a single method of training, but rather, the integration of 3 methods. It is based on the Russian Conjugate Sequence System, and the "Westside guys" admit readily to how heavily influenced (i.e. bastardized) the program is from the former Eastern bloc training methods. The Conjugate method employs 3 "styles" of training in a 1-"week" period:
The Max Effort method (heretofore referred to as "ME")
The Dynamic Effort method (heretofore referred to as "DE")
The Repetition (or Repeated) Effort method (heretofore referred to as "RE")
What is ME training?
ME training is "Max Effort" training and is truly the core of the Westside program. As the name implies, you will perform a maximum effort for an exercise that has a direct influence on your squatting, benching and deadlifting ability. Notice the term DIRECT. This means that you can be
100% certain that, if your <exercise> lift goes up, your bench or your squat/deadlift will go up. Triceps kickbacks, DB flyes or leg extensions would be
poor choices. Rack pulls, box squats, and close grip barbell presses would be better choices.
Why do ME training? How can it help a bodybuilder or powerlifter?
The purpose of ME training is to increase intermuscular (i.e. the quads work together with the glutes working together with the hammies) and intramuscular (i.e. more motor units firing within each involved muscle) coordination and function. The obvious benefits of ME work is not just *that* it makes you "stronger", but WHY it makes you stronger. It makes you a more efficient lifter in that you are able to "focus" on the exercise and perform it correctly. I'm sure we all can agree that a properly performed squat will do the body good, and an improperly performed squat will most certainly NOT do the body much good at all.
It also allows you to recruit more of the possible muscle fibers. We all know about the "Weider Mind-Muscle principle". Well, max effort training is the BEST way to improve this for a late intermediate/advanced trainee. You cannot hide weaknesses in ME training, they will jump out at you. Are you a bit asymmetrical, strengthwise, i.e. left a bit stronger than right, or vice-versa? This will become glaringly obvious. Do your triceps need some work? This will become glaringly obvious. Is your core musculature "pretty", but weak (i.e. do you have a 6-pack that is somewhat flimsy)? You'll learn this immediately during ME training. This is why you need an experienced eye for assistance. Westside is far better done with an experienced partner. Even the most experienced lifter can't watch himself train, unless he videotapes himself and watches himself in a multi-screen as he trains, to get immediate feedback.
How is ME training employed by Westside?
You will perform ME training on 2 separate days per "week" in the Westside program. 1 ME training day will be dedicated to the bench press, 1 to the
squat/deadlift. These are to be done on separate days (this is an absolute within the WSB system) and you should maximize the amount of rest
you get after a ME day.
You will develop a "pool" of several exercises that have a direct bearing on your bench press and squat. You will select 1 exercise from each of
those and perform approximately 3 sets of 1-3 repetitions as the first exercise for your workout. This work must be HEAVY, i.e. >90% 1RM. So if
you are doing the close grip bench press (CGBP) as your ME exercise this week for the bench, and you can CGBP 300 lbs, then your ME work would
be sets with 270 or more pounds. You can warmup to prepare for this work, but ensure you don't begin your ME work in a "fatigued" state. i.e. don't
do a bunch of sets and reps prior to your ME work. Do the least amount of warming up necessary to ensure your joints and muscles are prepared to
lift heavy.
As a "newb" to the Westside system, you will probably find that you can use the same ME exercise for consecutive weeks. However, this exercise
should (and will) be rotated at least every 3rd week. Experts with the Westside system (who probably would not be reading this unless they are
making sure I didn't muck it up! ) will generally rotate ME work each week. This week might be floor presses, next week CGBP, the week after 2-board presses, etc. This is because they are much closer to their genetic potential, and due to the SPP (Specific physical preparatory) skills they've developed (i.e. they have 'mastered' the exercise) they will burn out much faster than a newb would. Hence, more frequent exercise rotation.
Why do you "max out" every week? Isn't that dangerous? Why rotate exercises so often?
Research suggests that if you don't train heavy, you lose the ability to train heavy. i.e. you get "worse" at it if you don't do it frequently. As such, ME
work is done weekly to prevent any reduction in CNS capabilities. Remember, this is a powerlifting program designed for ADVANCED powerlifters.
Technique is assumed to be ideal, and the basic support system for any exercise has already been developed. If you are one of those guys who has
an ass that swims around in the bottom of the squat, you need to correct that BEFORE doing ME work. If you're one of those guys who begins his
bench press and by the midpoint, your left hand is 3" higher than your right hand and your right side spends the entire repetition trying to "catch up",
then you need to correct that BEFORE doing ME work.
Exercise rotation prevents CNS burnout and keeps the lifter from getting stale. It also rotates where and when the muscles are stressed during the
ROM, as well as rotating when and where the joints take strain. Frequent (and intelligent) application of ME exercise rotation is one of the most
important keys to success in a Westside program. yet another reason to have an experienced eye watching you during your training.
Understand that ME work is more than just "maxing out" each week. Without getting into too many specifics, you can read Methods of Max Effort Part I and Methods of Max Effort Part II, both by Dave Tate, to see how ME work can vary dramatically and allow one to train heavy every week without destroying the body.
What are some good ME exercises?
These will vary drastically, depending upon what type of powerlifting apparel you wear. If you wear a double-ply bench press shirt and a multi-ply
Metal squat suit of some such, you will have much different training needs than if you lift semi-raw (weight belt and knee wraps) or completely raw (Chuck Taylor's and yo' skivvees
)
Some good ME bench press exercises - board presses (1, 2, 3, and 4 board), JM presses, close grip presses at various angles, floor presses, medium grip bench presses, low incline/decline bench presses, reverse grip bench presses, reverse grip inclines, high incline/seated overhead presses and, of course, the bench press itself. Much of WSB generally does NOT perform the basic flat bench press during ME day often, if at all. For further variation, the use of chains or bands is employed either "with" or in "reverse" (i.e. to weigh down the bar or to assist in lifting the bar early in the ROM and to allow the bar to "get heavier" later in the ROM)
Some good ME squat/DL exercises - all forms and variations of the Good morning (note - perform 3 RM for these, not 1 RM), box squats of varying heights, pin (Rack) pulls, platform pulls, squats with buffalo bar or safety squat bar, trap bar deadlifts, Manta Ray squats, good morning squats, zercher squats and pulls, front squats and any of the above with a combination of chains and/or bands.
You have an ME day for squats and one for benching, but you don't have one for deadlifts. Don't powerlifters deadlift?
Westside does not have a "separate" workout for deadlifting or squatting, but rather, they consider training one to be training both. Once you get the technique of both exercises down, training the muscles involved in one means you are training the muscles involved in both. So when Westside says "you train the squat", he is also saying intrinsically that "you train the deadlift" as well.
WSB employs the use of an extremely wide stance for squatting, so they do very little direct quad work (i.e. front squats) and tons of posterior chain work (i.e. good mornings - frequently the ME exercise du jour for ME squat day) Again, most of WSB does not perform the actual "competition squat" during ME days. They will frequently perform a variation of the competition squat using a low box, however. If you are an intermediate-"early advanced" lifter, you will probably need to incorporate the competition bench press and squat a lot more frequently than what WSB does. Remember, WSB doesn't take average lifters and make them great, they take great lifters and make them the best. So what YOU do using a WSB template might need to be different.
What do you mean by "competition bench" and "competition squat"?
A squat and bench performed with the hand/foot placement and technique you would use during a competition. It is an exact replica, rather than a "close facsimile". A "competition squat" performed on a box would be a squat performed with your competition stance, except lowering yourself to the box, pausing to remove any elastic tension, then exploding out of the bottom. This is SIGNIFICANTLY different than a "competition squat" where you would simply take a competition stance, lower yourself to parallel and return.
What is DE? How is it used? What is this "compensatory acceleration" stuff?
DE is Dynamic Effort, aka "speed work". 2 days per week are dedicated to DE work, one day for squat and one day for bench. The idea is to perform 8 sets of 3 reps (bench press) or 8-12 sets of 2 reps (box squat) with minimal rest between sets (45-90 seconds, generally), at the start of the workout (1st exercise of DE day for squat or bench) using "compensatory acceleration" and between 50-70% (generally 50-60%) of your 1RM.
So you 300-lb benchers will be doing your sets with a whopping 150-180 lbs.
Huh? Compesaerte accel...who?
Compensatory acceleration is a fancy-schmancy way of saying you move the damn bar fast. HOWEVER, for the non-advanced lifter, this means your technique will suck. Technique MUST MUST MUST be PERFECT during speed work, or you are reinforcing poor technique. Bar speed is PARAMOUNT. If you are not able to accelerate the bar throughout the lift, you are using too much weight, period.
The general idea is to perform your 3 reps in the bench press (2 for the box squat) in the space of time it takes for you to perform a 1RM repetition. You alter your hand spacing, generally using 3 different grip widths during the bench training. Your foot spacing for the box squat will be as wide as you can get it, which, in WSB terminology, means "how you squat in competition". WSB do not advocate "quad squatting", they advocate "posterior chain squatting". During the box squat training, you "deload" completely on the box for each of your reps.
Using bands and/or chains is a great (and advanced) way to teach acceleration throughout the ROM. The entire purpose of DE day is to reinforce technique and develop the ability to accelerate the bar. It is NOT to use heavy weight, that cannot be emphasized enough. You are not performing rapid "bounce" presses or "boingo" squats. You are controlling the motion. However, your focus is on accelerating the weight throughout the
concentric ROM.
Did I mention you should try to accelerate the weight?
The exercise of choice for DE will frequently remain the same during a training preparation for a meet. Unlike the ME exercise, this is not going to be rotated nearly as often. 6-8 weeks is a basic guideline, which can be adjusted as needed. Westside also likes to incorporate deadlifts using bands on speed day.
What is RE? How is it used?
RE is repeated (repetition) effort, aka "bodybuilding". The idea is to perform between 5 and 12 repetitions with all supplementary and accessory
work, with some exceptions (prehabilitation generally is upwards of 15 reps per set, to be discussed later). EVERY work set that is not ME or DE is RE. So your ME days start off with the ME exercise, then the rest of your training is spent using RE. Typically, the first "supplementary" exercise will be heavy RE work (low rep range, ~ 5 reps per set). This is going to be an exercise that could easily find it's way into a ME program. General rule of thumb - if it is good for ME work, it is good for supplementary RE work. If it is not suitable for ME work, then it isn't really a supplementary RE exercise, it should be "relegated" to accessory work. Accessory work will be, typically, 8-12 reps per set, the idea being general SPP conditioning and strengthening.
Hypertrophy, while not the specific goal (usually, aside from SHW), is a generally accepted "side affect" of RE work. Dave Tate and Dave Gulledge
have "recently" dropped a ton of bodyfat, and, surprise surprise, with the bodyfat stripped off, they look huge and muscular. Why does a Westside primer belong on a bodybuilding website? Because Westside is a program that makes the lifter HUGE. The combination of limit strength developed by ME training coupled with the speed-strength developed via DE training makes for some pretty darn good RE training and has the tendency to elicit tremendous size gains in addition to strength increases.
Rotation of these exercises is going to be weekly, with few exceptions. Strength and conditioning are the goals, with the adjunct that you can't go straining your elbows, knees and shoulders with excessive RE work and expect to get stronger over the long term.
*continued*
Why discuss a powerlifting program in a bodybuilding forum? Because this is a program that can help you get strong, and any non-chemically assisted trainee who thinks he can get big without getting strong is smoking crack. You can't do it. Guys on steroids don't NEED to be strong to be
big. Guys not on steroids MUST get strong in order to get big. Please do not debate this issue with me here. Debate it (and lose) elsewhere. That being said, chemically assisted trainees can get TONS of useful training ideas from the Westside training methods, and can get incredibly huge just by following the basic program and eating a good mass-building (i.e. bulking) diet.
So here it is. "Just the basics, ma'am." This should give you enough of a foundation in the Westside methods of training so that you can at least read and understand some of the stuff that Louie Simmons puts out. These are the questions I've had most asked of me.
What is Westside training?
"Westside training" is, in its basic format, a powerlifting program "designed" by Louie Simmons and evolved by Louie, Dave Tate, Jim Wendler and a
bunch of the fellows at Westside Barbell in Ohio. It is designed around the Conjugate method and has proven itself to be incredibly effective for the
advanced trainee.
What is the Conjugate method?
The Conjugate method is not actually a single method of training, but rather, the integration of 3 methods. It is based on the Russian Conjugate Sequence System, and the "Westside guys" admit readily to how heavily influenced (i.e. bastardized) the program is from the former Eastern bloc training methods. The Conjugate method employs 3 "styles" of training in a 1-"week" period:
The Max Effort method (heretofore referred to as "ME")
The Dynamic Effort method (heretofore referred to as "DE")
The Repetition (or Repeated) Effort method (heretofore referred to as "RE")
What is ME training?
ME training is "Max Effort" training and is truly the core of the Westside program. As the name implies, you will perform a maximum effort for an exercise that has a direct influence on your squatting, benching and deadlifting ability. Notice the term DIRECT. This means that you can be
100% certain that, if your <exercise> lift goes up, your bench or your squat/deadlift will go up. Triceps kickbacks, DB flyes or leg extensions would be
poor choices. Rack pulls, box squats, and close grip barbell presses would be better choices.
Why do ME training? How can it help a bodybuilder or powerlifter?
The purpose of ME training is to increase intermuscular (i.e. the quads work together with the glutes working together with the hammies) and intramuscular (i.e. more motor units firing within each involved muscle) coordination and function. The obvious benefits of ME work is not just *that* it makes you "stronger", but WHY it makes you stronger. It makes you a more efficient lifter in that you are able to "focus" on the exercise and perform it correctly. I'm sure we all can agree that a properly performed squat will do the body good, and an improperly performed squat will most certainly NOT do the body much good at all.
It also allows you to recruit more of the possible muscle fibers. We all know about the "Weider Mind-Muscle principle". Well, max effort training is the BEST way to improve this for a late intermediate/advanced trainee. You cannot hide weaknesses in ME training, they will jump out at you. Are you a bit asymmetrical, strengthwise, i.e. left a bit stronger than right, or vice-versa? This will become glaringly obvious. Do your triceps need some work? This will become glaringly obvious. Is your core musculature "pretty", but weak (i.e. do you have a 6-pack that is somewhat flimsy)? You'll learn this immediately during ME training. This is why you need an experienced eye for assistance. Westside is far better done with an experienced partner. Even the most experienced lifter can't watch himself train, unless he videotapes himself and watches himself in a multi-screen as he trains, to get immediate feedback.
How is ME training employed by Westside?
You will perform ME training on 2 separate days per "week" in the Westside program. 1 ME training day will be dedicated to the bench press, 1 to the
squat/deadlift. These are to be done on separate days (this is an absolute within the WSB system) and you should maximize the amount of rest
you get after a ME day.
You will develop a "pool" of several exercises that have a direct bearing on your bench press and squat. You will select 1 exercise from each of
those and perform approximately 3 sets of 1-3 repetitions as the first exercise for your workout. This work must be HEAVY, i.e. >90% 1RM. So if
you are doing the close grip bench press (CGBP) as your ME exercise this week for the bench, and you can CGBP 300 lbs, then your ME work would
be sets with 270 or more pounds. You can warmup to prepare for this work, but ensure you don't begin your ME work in a "fatigued" state. i.e. don't
do a bunch of sets and reps prior to your ME work. Do the least amount of warming up necessary to ensure your joints and muscles are prepared to
lift heavy.
As a "newb" to the Westside system, you will probably find that you can use the same ME exercise for consecutive weeks. However, this exercise
should (and will) be rotated at least every 3rd week. Experts with the Westside system (who probably would not be reading this unless they are
making sure I didn't muck it up! ) will generally rotate ME work each week. This week might be floor presses, next week CGBP, the week after 2-board presses, etc. This is because they are much closer to their genetic potential, and due to the SPP (Specific physical preparatory) skills they've developed (i.e. they have 'mastered' the exercise) they will burn out much faster than a newb would. Hence, more frequent exercise rotation.
Why do you "max out" every week? Isn't that dangerous? Why rotate exercises so often?
Research suggests that if you don't train heavy, you lose the ability to train heavy. i.e. you get "worse" at it if you don't do it frequently. As such, ME
work is done weekly to prevent any reduction in CNS capabilities. Remember, this is a powerlifting program designed for ADVANCED powerlifters.
Technique is assumed to be ideal, and the basic support system for any exercise has already been developed. If you are one of those guys who has
an ass that swims around in the bottom of the squat, you need to correct that BEFORE doing ME work. If you're one of those guys who begins his
bench press and by the midpoint, your left hand is 3" higher than your right hand and your right side spends the entire repetition trying to "catch up",
then you need to correct that BEFORE doing ME work.
Exercise rotation prevents CNS burnout and keeps the lifter from getting stale. It also rotates where and when the muscles are stressed during the
ROM, as well as rotating when and where the joints take strain. Frequent (and intelligent) application of ME exercise rotation is one of the most
important keys to success in a Westside program. yet another reason to have an experienced eye watching you during your training.
Understand that ME work is more than just "maxing out" each week. Without getting into too many specifics, you can read Methods of Max Effort Part I and Methods of Max Effort Part II, both by Dave Tate, to see how ME work can vary dramatically and allow one to train heavy every week without destroying the body.
What are some good ME exercises?
These will vary drastically, depending upon what type of powerlifting apparel you wear. If you wear a double-ply bench press shirt and a multi-ply
Metal squat suit of some such, you will have much different training needs than if you lift semi-raw (weight belt and knee wraps) or completely raw (Chuck Taylor's and yo' skivvees
)Some good ME bench press exercises - board presses (1, 2, 3, and 4 board), JM presses, close grip presses at various angles, floor presses, medium grip bench presses, low incline/decline bench presses, reverse grip bench presses, reverse grip inclines, high incline/seated overhead presses and, of course, the bench press itself. Much of WSB generally does NOT perform the basic flat bench press during ME day often, if at all. For further variation, the use of chains or bands is employed either "with" or in "reverse" (i.e. to weigh down the bar or to assist in lifting the bar early in the ROM and to allow the bar to "get heavier" later in the ROM)
Some good ME squat/DL exercises - all forms and variations of the Good morning (note - perform 3 RM for these, not 1 RM), box squats of varying heights, pin (Rack) pulls, platform pulls, squats with buffalo bar or safety squat bar, trap bar deadlifts, Manta Ray squats, good morning squats, zercher squats and pulls, front squats and any of the above with a combination of chains and/or bands.
You have an ME day for squats and one for benching, but you don't have one for deadlifts. Don't powerlifters deadlift?
Westside does not have a "separate" workout for deadlifting or squatting, but rather, they consider training one to be training both. Once you get the technique of both exercises down, training the muscles involved in one means you are training the muscles involved in both. So when Westside says "you train the squat", he is also saying intrinsically that "you train the deadlift" as well.
WSB employs the use of an extremely wide stance for squatting, so they do very little direct quad work (i.e. front squats) and tons of posterior chain work (i.e. good mornings - frequently the ME exercise du jour for ME squat day) Again, most of WSB does not perform the actual "competition squat" during ME days. They will frequently perform a variation of the competition squat using a low box, however. If you are an intermediate-"early advanced" lifter, you will probably need to incorporate the competition bench press and squat a lot more frequently than what WSB does. Remember, WSB doesn't take average lifters and make them great, they take great lifters and make them the best. So what YOU do using a WSB template might need to be different.
What do you mean by "competition bench" and "competition squat"?
A squat and bench performed with the hand/foot placement and technique you would use during a competition. It is an exact replica, rather than a "close facsimile". A "competition squat" performed on a box would be a squat performed with your competition stance, except lowering yourself to the box, pausing to remove any elastic tension, then exploding out of the bottom. This is SIGNIFICANTLY different than a "competition squat" where you would simply take a competition stance, lower yourself to parallel and return.
What is DE? How is it used? What is this "compensatory acceleration" stuff?
DE is Dynamic Effort, aka "speed work". 2 days per week are dedicated to DE work, one day for squat and one day for bench. The idea is to perform 8 sets of 3 reps (bench press) or 8-12 sets of 2 reps (box squat) with minimal rest between sets (45-90 seconds, generally), at the start of the workout (1st exercise of DE day for squat or bench) using "compensatory acceleration" and between 50-70% (generally 50-60%) of your 1RM.
So you 300-lb benchers will be doing your sets with a whopping 150-180 lbs.
Huh? Compesaerte accel...who?
Compensatory acceleration is a fancy-schmancy way of saying you move the damn bar fast. HOWEVER, for the non-advanced lifter, this means your technique will suck. Technique MUST MUST MUST be PERFECT during speed work, or you are reinforcing poor technique. Bar speed is PARAMOUNT. If you are not able to accelerate the bar throughout the lift, you are using too much weight, period.
The general idea is to perform your 3 reps in the bench press (2 for the box squat) in the space of time it takes for you to perform a 1RM repetition. You alter your hand spacing, generally using 3 different grip widths during the bench training. Your foot spacing for the box squat will be as wide as you can get it, which, in WSB terminology, means "how you squat in competition". WSB do not advocate "quad squatting", they advocate "posterior chain squatting". During the box squat training, you "deload" completely on the box for each of your reps.
Using bands and/or chains is a great (and advanced) way to teach acceleration throughout the ROM. The entire purpose of DE day is to reinforce technique and develop the ability to accelerate the bar. It is NOT to use heavy weight, that cannot be emphasized enough. You are not performing rapid "bounce" presses or "boingo" squats. You are controlling the motion. However, your focus is on accelerating the weight throughout the
concentric ROM.
Did I mention you should try to accelerate the weight?
The exercise of choice for DE will frequently remain the same during a training preparation for a meet. Unlike the ME exercise, this is not going to be rotated nearly as often. 6-8 weeks is a basic guideline, which can be adjusted as needed. Westside also likes to incorporate deadlifts using bands on speed day.
What is RE? How is it used?
RE is repeated (repetition) effort, aka "bodybuilding". The idea is to perform between 5 and 12 repetitions with all supplementary and accessory
work, with some exceptions (prehabilitation generally is upwards of 15 reps per set, to be discussed later). EVERY work set that is not ME or DE is RE. So your ME days start off with the ME exercise, then the rest of your training is spent using RE. Typically, the first "supplementary" exercise will be heavy RE work (low rep range, ~ 5 reps per set). This is going to be an exercise that could easily find it's way into a ME program. General rule of thumb - if it is good for ME work, it is good for supplementary RE work. If it is not suitable for ME work, then it isn't really a supplementary RE exercise, it should be "relegated" to accessory work. Accessory work will be, typically, 8-12 reps per set, the idea being general SPP conditioning and strengthening.
Hypertrophy, while not the specific goal (usually, aside from SHW), is a generally accepted "side affect" of RE work. Dave Tate and Dave Gulledge
have "recently" dropped a ton of bodyfat, and, surprise surprise, with the bodyfat stripped off, they look huge and muscular. Why does a Westside primer belong on a bodybuilding website? Because Westside is a program that makes the lifter HUGE. The combination of limit strength developed by ME training coupled with the speed-strength developed via DE training makes for some pretty darn good RE training and has the tendency to elicit tremendous size gains in addition to strength increases.
Rotation of these exercises is going to be weekly, with few exceptions. Strength and conditioning are the goals, with the adjunct that you can't go straining your elbows, knees and shoulders with excessive RE work and expect to get stronger over the long term.
*continued*
