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Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
The consensus to 'not mess with the program' is because most people don't know what the hell they are doing even though they believe they do and have 20 years reading M&F. This way they don't end up in a 3 day split and turn it into one of their normal shitty programs and wonder why it didn't work well.
Whoever started that hormonal crap on squats and deads needs to be flailed. Supercompensation does not forced to be immediate and linear workout to workout and certainly not within a few hours so that and the 'training must be under 60 min or it's worthless' theory is just garbage.
Anyway, the generic template is for full body growth. Increasing the squat just does a good job of growing the entire body due to it's use of a high % of musculature - same with dead and to a degree all compound movements. So the body is a system, should be trained as such, but from a muscle structure standpoint not a hormonal one.
Basically, you can do what you want with the program. Aesthetics make it hard since you aren't just going for basic growth and already have someone who is overdeveloped from a squatting sense. I'd also venture that some might be overcoming a genetic issue (i.e. if he had fabulous chest/shoulder genetics any good training would likely work). You'll have to choose exercises and volume based upon what you know of him, obviously the key to this layout is periodization, a lot of workload on a few 'big lifts' and high frequency of stimulus which is integral. One thing I'd make sure he's working hard are barbell rows. Doing them dynamically. This is pretty key to growing the shoulder girdle in addition to the lats and more power in the lats etc... translates to more power in the bench so there should be some synergy.
Hope that helps.
Blade_HST said:I'm sorry, but I'd have to disagree. There is just no evidence of such a systemic response, although there is an overall growth effect from the direct stress squats and deadlifts put on upper body muscle - this is not hormonal, though. This BB will be doing his deadlifts, the only question here - and I understand that the general consensus is not to mess with "the program[tm]" - is how to intelligently restructure some variables of the schedule to target weak points, given that one understands the underlying principles. Weak point targetting is an integral part of successful coaching IMO. I completely agree that squats should be a foundation of any training program, but in this specific instance, this is already a strong point, and we want to maintain squats while increasing focus to his horizontal and vertical pressing movements - something applicable to a football player or boxer even.
I guess I will do some experimentation with exchanging some DE bench work on the bench with the light squats (or front squats) on Wednesday, and probably reduce the 5 x 5 to 2-3 x 5 on Monday unless someone else has any suggestions or experiences.
Thank you for your input, though, it is appreciated and noted.
The consensus to 'not mess with the program' is because most people don't know what the hell they are doing even though they believe they do and have 20 years reading M&F. This way they don't end up in a 3 day split and turn it into one of their normal shitty programs and wonder why it didn't work well.
Whoever started that hormonal crap on squats and deads needs to be flailed. Supercompensation does not forced to be immediate and linear workout to workout and certainly not within a few hours so that and the 'training must be under 60 min or it's worthless' theory is just garbage.
Anyway, the generic template is for full body growth. Increasing the squat just does a good job of growing the entire body due to it's use of a high % of musculature - same with dead and to a degree all compound movements. So the body is a system, should be trained as such, but from a muscle structure standpoint not a hormonal one.
Basically, you can do what you want with the program. Aesthetics make it hard since you aren't just going for basic growth and already have someone who is overdeveloped from a squatting sense. I'd also venture that some might be overcoming a genetic issue (i.e. if he had fabulous chest/shoulder genetics any good training would likely work). You'll have to choose exercises and volume based upon what you know of him, obviously the key to this layout is periodization, a lot of workload on a few 'big lifts' and high frequency of stimulus which is integral. One thing I'd make sure he's working hard are barbell rows. Doing them dynamically. This is pretty key to growing the shoulder girdle in addition to the lats and more power in the lats etc... translates to more power in the bench so there should be some synergy.
Hope that helps.
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