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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

Madcow2 said:
Well, high pulls can be done heavier and low clean pulls heavier than that. Generally 100-110% of your best clean. The power clean is going to be more difficult to learn and you won't be using as heavy a weight. Technique should be the same though and to be honest, doing a lot of heavy high pulls and training bad technique makes it harder to fix down the road.
I failed to mention that I am VERY comfortable w/ power cleans. I did 'em for four years in HS for football. The highlight of my power cleaning "career" (wow this may be the biggest overstatement I've ever made online) was during a Northwestern University football camp when their strength/conditioning coach used me as the example of how to do them right. I had an AWESOME HS football coach who taught us all to power clean correctly. He was big on that book "Bigger, faster, stronger".
EDIT:
That said, do you think I should do PC's for explosion? When I did the single w/ 275 it REALLY took a strong initial pull to get the weight moving fast enough to clean. Going by feel it seems that this would help my dl sticking point perfectly (basically I'm going to do cleans and I just want you to say "go for it" :) )
 
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Well - generally the first pull isn't fast and the idea is to set it up properly for a perfect 2nd pull (as it clears the knees) because this is where you get all the power and acceleration. That kind of makes me a little bit leary about your clean unless I'm reading it wrong. In either case, you are familiar with the movement and it can't be all that bad. I'd try to get those OLs to watch you - football coaches are notoriously bad and even a session or so can probably pick out a few technical issues that will greatly facilitate your training.

Anyway, a few other ways to do stuff.

Use power cleans and power snatches to warm up for the other pulls. WHen deadlifting, begin with cleans and then switch over as the weight gets heavier.
 
Madcow, what do you think of a two week de-loading phase following the first four or five weeks? I've run this type of triaining before, just wondering what your thoughts are on it. I needed to implement more boxing training, and this is leaving me too drained to hit the bag, and the road work is leaving me too sore to do squats at full strength. So, I just wanted to see your opinion on cutting back 2 weeks. Sorry if this has been covered already, but it's at 41 pages. I read the first 20 or so.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

What is Overtraining?


This is a useful thing for the TOC so I'll just slap it here and preface it with something reasonable:

If I do 12 sets for chest, 10 from legs, 8 for back, and 9 for arms - is this overtraining?

Madcow2 said:
So it's impossible to tell not knowing your training history, not knowing what exercises you'll be performing, not knowing how heavy you'll be lifting, and not knowing how long you plan on doing it (i.e. overtraining doesn't happen in a day, it is cummulative fatigue so doing a program for 4 weeks might be quite stimulative yet 10 weeks would kill someone). Also, overtraining is systemic - symptoms include increased reaction time, sustained decrease in performance by 10-15% or greater, sleep disruption, depression, and a bunch of other stuff. You don't get that from a few too many sets one day, that's the body's nervous system breaking down due to high levels of accumulated fatigue.

So now you know that fatigue can be accumulated as a result of training. Obviously the other result of training is what you are driving for strength, speed, hypertrophy - whatever. This is basically refered to as fitness. Interestingly fitness and fatigue accrue and disipate at very different rates....what is the implication? Well obviously fatigue limits your ability to accrue fitness so maybe it's worth looking at their respective rates of accrual and disipation to see if we can plan a workout program around it. This is not a new or novel concept - this is basically the way training is done for elite athletes all over the world in every sport except BBing which although massively affected by it due to the application of weight training stimulus has managed to keep itself ignorant.

Anyway, this is called fitness fatigue theory or dual factor theory. The overwhelming majority of BBing still look at the world in a single factor framework where you train and recover workout to workout making the timing critical, this model as been shot to living dogshit by science and has been totally supplanted by the dual factor model as single factor falls appart reliably and repeatedly under different circumstances while the dual can account for and explain the whole lot. This is what is done with theories - get a better one and junk the old one, although in the case of beginners, novices, and lower intermediate lifters the single factor style programming is considered most appropriate.

This article delves into it more deeply and will enhance your understanding of overtraining because obviously at this point you are realizing that just about every person you've ever heard use the word to rationalize something in their workout doesn't have a freaking clue about what it really is or what is involved in fatigue management. I should also point out that a periodized program built around these concepts only really becomes valuable once you have some decent experience. Even the people who train the best never use this for novices or lower intermediate atheltes/lifters as they make the same progress or even better better at times using a linear pattern and pushing more consistently at lower volumes. http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOvertraining.html

Other helpful links in understanding programing and factors (i.e. Intensity, Volume, Frequency): http://www.qwa.org/articles/tmethod.asp

Also see the Frequency and Load Links in the TOC on this page: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215&page=1&pp=20
 
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Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

White Sox said:
Madcow, what do you think of a two week de-loading phase following the first four or five weeks? I've run this type of triaining before, just wondering what your thoughts are on it. I needed to implement more boxing training, and this is leaving me too drained to hit the bag, and the road work is leaving me too sore to do squats at full strength. So, I just wanted to see your opinion on cutting back 2 weeks. Sorry if this has been covered already, but it's at 41 pages. I read the first 20 or so.

It all depends on how fatigued you are. The volume really only loads heavy for 2 weeks (the first few are generally seen as accomodation) and most people set the weights the first time so that maybe they get a single solid loading week in. This is a really good description that might give you some ideas on programming and experimentation down towards the bottom. http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showpost.php?p=48&postcount=3
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Madcow2 said:
It all depends on how fatigued you are. The volume really only loads heavy for 2 weeks (the first few are generally seen as accomodation) and most people set the weights the first time so that maybe they get a single solid loading week in. This is a really good description that might give you some ideas on programming and experimentation down towards the bottom. http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showpost.php?p=48&postcount=3

Thanks. Main reason I'm asking is to implement more running and boxing into my routine. I think i'll try to do it next week, de-load for one week and see how I feel. My lifts are going up in bench and military, stable in squats and moving up in deadlift. I just need to accept that my squat may stagnate for a few weeks, but i'll be getting the other benefts I want for boxing. Maybe having 3 days of active recovery (heavy bag, running, stretchin, etc) will help. Thanks for the help.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

MADCOW I NEED HELP


okay i finished 5x5, all 9 weeks of it.

but i think i sort of broke down this week, and basically fell apart, (maybe overtrained, maybe mental, who knows)

so anyway, i want to run 5x5 again, but im going out of town soon, so i probably wont be starting it again for 4 more weeks (because im not sure how frequently ill be getting into a gym while out of town -or how regularly)

i really like this setup, so if im not doing an official 5x5 yet, but i wanna keep the same exersises/days, informally, how would u suggest i do it?(in other words i dont wanna go back to a conventional bb routine)

could i just do whatever the hell i wanted (while keeping moderation) in terms of reps, but keeping exersises the same, untill i start 5x5 again? like higher reps jsut to give my mind and body a break from going so heavy before i go back to 5x5?

i
 
Yeah - most importantly you want to know the parameters around being burned out (probably you did the 3x deloading I'm guessing). I'm interested in the gains and strength results. Also, most people are pretty loaded up after finishing the 3x so you are going to need a break.

Overall, I think it's a great time to be doing higher reps (let some of that neural efficiency from triplies build into a nice high rep range like 8-12 or some such that you haven't trained in ages and is mainly all hypertrophy - lots of benefits to varying reps ranges and workloads) . Set aside a nice 4 week block and set up the exercises etc... Start with some lower volume (and maybe frequency the first week) and low weight to recover from the previous phase and then scale upward when you feel ready (probably 2 weeks I imagine generally 10-14 days and you should be solid, you might actually be ripping strong and feel great by that point).
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Madcow2 said:
Yeah - most importantly you want to know the parameters around being burned out (probably you did the 3x deloading I'm guessing). I'm interested in the gains and strength results. Also, most people are pretty loaded up after finishing the 3x so you are going to need a break.

Overall, I think it's a great time to be doing higher reps (let some of that neural efficiency from triplies build into a nice high rep range like 8-12 or some such that you haven't trained in ages and is mainly all hypertrophy - lots of benefits to varying reps ranges and workloads) . Set aside a nice 4 week block and set up the exercises etc... Start with some lower volume (and maybe frequency the first week) and low weight to recover from the previous phase and then scale upward when you feel ready (probably 2 weeks I imagine generally 10-14 days and you should be solid, you might actually be ripping strong and feel great by that point).
awsome. thats what ill do then. but lower freqnecy the first week? so you mean dont do what i was doing (benching, squatting, rowing monday and friday, and shoulder pressing, pullups, deads wednesday?

what would you suggest as far as a split is concerned while im doing this.


-in the next post ill type out how things went
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

heres my progress, i went from 166ish, to 175ish in weight,

the stars mean i failed- of all the failing, they all happened after the last rep...

and heres the 5x5 portion
http://tinypic.com/98y42o.gif

heres the 3x3 portion
http://tinypic.com/98y41y.gif
also the military was standing

i made a mistake on the week 2 of the 1x3 bench portion, i failed at 250 (not 255 like it says), on the 2nd rep, and bumped it up to 255 the following week because i was progressing so well on the 3x3, i was having alot of trouble, and all of the failures was on the 3rd rep (meaning i got 2 of the reps fine, EACH time). most likely mental, because i dont see how i can be doing 245 3x3, but not 255 even 1x3? but who knows...
 
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Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

SublimeZM said:
i dont see how i can be doing 245 3x3, but not 255 even 1x3? but who knows...
I don't get it either but it happened to me too. There really doesn't seem to be too much aof a difference form 3x3 to 1x3 in terms of the weight used. I didn't understand why I could do 305 for 3x3 but BARELY get 315 for 1x3. It's like a 3% difference in weight but a much larger % diff in terms total workload (pounds moved). Go figure.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Guinness5.0 said:
I don't get it either but it happened to me too. There really doesn't seem to be too much aof a difference form 3x3 to 1x3 in terms of the weight used. I didn't understand why I could do 305 for 3x3 but BARELY get 315 for 1x3. It's like a 3% difference in weight but a much larger % diff in terms total workload (pounds moved). Go figure.
lol, at least you got your 315 though ;)

damn i want that 255, looks like ill have to crush it next time though :mad:
 
It's mostly down to how much recovery time you need and how much of that you decide to take. The rest is just the conditioning to be able to do somewhere near a max lift and then be able to do it again shortly afterwards.
 
Hey madcow, I have a simple question for you. On benching[normal, incline, decline, etc.] dumbbells or barbells? Or maybe alternating each week between dumbbells and barbells?
 
siamesedream said:
Hey madcow, I have a simple question for you. On benching[normal, incline, decline, etc.] dumbbells or barbells? Or maybe alternating each week between dumbbells and barbells?
Barbells are superior due to the fact that more weight can be used. More weight= more stimulus/load. MC has answered this in this thread so you may want to look for it- though it may take a while to dig through it all:)
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

siamesedream said:
Hey madcow, I have a simple question for you. On benching[normal, incline, decline, etc.] dumbbells or barbells? Or maybe alternating each week between dumbbells and barbells?

Never alternate like that. Pick something and spend a period of time improving your capacity in it. Switching like that is moronic (and yeah - that means there are a lot of people training like morons that don't realize it). That's not to say that can't do bench M/F and use incline DBs or some such on Wed but the idea is that you choose something and improve for a period of time which is generally 4-8 weeks or something of a decent range.

The body adapts over time, not necessarily session to session. Specificity and frequency are strong drivers of adaptation. If you do a movement a lot, your body gets better at it, and your capacity increases at a faster rate. This is also why you don't have 25 exercises or some crap because the body doesn't do any one thing often enough to gain much benefit.

In the end, all else held equal, a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle and more BBers should be looking at the massive volumes of very high quality research on strength training for advanced and elite athletes - these guys have no problem putting on muscle. Granted we aren't talking about a 1RM all the time but if your goal is to be fast at a distance of 45 yards, there's probably a lot of benefit in looking at the massive amount of work done on getting fast at 40 yards. It's not a different world like many in BBing believe, more like plain vanilla ice cream vs. extra creamy vanilla ice cream (not ice cream vs. motor oil). You get stronger at the big lifts in a decent hypertrophy range, eat enough, and your body will layer on the muscle to compensate for the higher workload. You'll generally develop very symmetrically according to your genetics, when you see a problem (most generally don't) adjust for a bit - but don't do 20 proactive adjustments due to a debilitating over-concern about symmetry and wind up putting on muscle at 20% the rate.

Anyway, check out these pics over at TotalElite: http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=1110&st=0

This was a heavily sarcastic post made on page #3 but between this and the pics on page 1 in the above link, it should illustrate my point:

What a lot of strength athletes don't understand is that bodybuilding is totally different. A whole different type of hypertophy that requires vastly different exotic training methods that rarely get results and generally require anabolics to break 200lbs. Let me tell you all that building significant muscle mass on a Yoda-esque program using exotic rep schemes on cables and machines, days of dedicated biceps training, with an overbearing focus on trace mineral balance and insufficient caloric intake makes it really hard to put on muscle. These guys have to have it all together to show any appreciable gains.

Guys that eat and are able to rely on basic programs to increase their weights in squats, pulls, and presses doing basic exercises that strengthen the body and force it to adapt with increased muscle have it easy. They will never know what it's like to fight through moronic inefficiency to needlessly differentiate your training and alleviate worry that when you eventually do start gaining weight someday, it will be in perfect symmetry and proportion - all at 2lbs a year.

Anyway, as to DB or Barbell - most people can handle a lot more weight with their body working against a single object. The way you gain muscle is to stress the entire system - all the best exercises load the system through a range of motion (squat, dead, bench, row, chin, overhead). Isolation is a pretty shitty way to stimulate growth no matter how it might feel in a certain muscle (hence the flat bench not being the best pec activator yet a really solid builder of overall muscle including the pecs, or the squat building great quads far better than the leg extension). So, you apply more weight to the system with a barbell. Bread and butter stuff - use a barbell as default. That's not to say DBs aren't great and should never be included but only that you should have a specific purpose for deviating or simply to provide a different emphasis for a period. Most people who recommend dumbells talk about "feel" in a target muscle or range of motion or some other stuff - the bottom line is that neither of these compensates enough for the increased load you can move on the barbell. BTW - the opinion I'm voicing here isn't unique to me, there is a reason why barbells are used and just about anyone who really knows this stuff will tell you this.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

SublimeZM said:
awsome. thats what ill do then. but lower freqnecy the first week? so you mean dont do what i was doing (benching, squatting, rowing monday and friday, and shoulder pressing, pullups, deads wednesday?

what would you suggest as far as a split is concerned while im doing this.


-in the next post ill type out how things went

Well, if you are really beat right now - you need to recover. Look at the 2x option in my description of the 5x5. Train twice the first week and keep it light. You'll probably be better off than the same volume over 3x. You sounded beat to me so you want to deload, adapt, and get back in the game hard at full strength.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Finnish Deadlift Secrets

This was something I had on my harddrive. Probably a fun read for a few of you as I know more than a few have managed some PR pulls lately and seem really into handling heavy weight.

Sakari Selkäinaho said:
Finnish Deadlift Secrets​

Sakari Selkäinaho​
________________________________________

Through out the years, the deadlift has been our ”national sport” here in Finland. World records has been broken since early 70´s. What makes Finns pull so much, what is their secret ?
I took a look and after collecting training information of many new and former greats, here is some background and information.

# 1 Genetics

To be able to lift a lot, you have to be talented athlete. Most of the guys had long arms and legs. You could see middleweights pulling over 200 kilos the first time they saw a power bar. But that's only a good start. The best deadlifters in the late 70`s and early 80´s had two things in common. Most of them had a background of hard labor, like lumberjacks, construction workers, farmers or something similar. They carried, lifted and dragged for their living. That laid a perfect background for deadlift training and very often ensured a hard grip too. The second thing was Olympic lifting background, they had pulled alot before their powerlifting career. Raimo Välineva held Scandinavian records in Olympic lifting and was able to clean 330 pounds with straight legs. He had World records of 688 in 148´s and 716 in 165´s in early 80`s. When weightlifting had the press it was more a pure strength sport as now when speed and technique more critical.
Many of the new lifters have some type of athletic background from other sports. Ismo Lappi, 338,5 kg deadlifter in 165´s, has thrown javelin over 75 yards and ran 100 meters in under 11 seconds in his teens. He is fast and explosive enough to deadlift big.

# 2 Squatting for the deadlift

All of the former record holders and many of today's too, squatted with a narrow stance. This had two advantages. First, it served as an excellent special exercise for deadlift. Many trained the squat three times a week. Twice back squatting and once front squatting. The other back squat could be a high bar session.
Other squat exercises were something like lunges, or step squats, using bar on back. These were done sometimes a box under front or back feet, varying how it hits glutes and hamstrings. A 8-12 inch box under back feet hits the upper part of glutes quite hard.
Many used different stances. The narrow stance high bar was the most common but many, like Taito Haara, Reijo Kiviranta and Hannu Saarelainen, squatted with 3-4 stances.
During the last years, the box squat has become very popular in Finland. Janne Toivanen put it in practice by hauling up 804 in `96 IPF World's in Austria. Many have followed. Ano Turtiainen started using the box and now pulls over 859 in every meet he enters. Ismo Lappi, the new WR holder in 165´s in IPF, does box squats as assistance. Veli Kumpuniemi stated that if would have known how to use a box in his prime he would have lifted a lot more. How much more? He tore his hamstring while trying 804 in the 181´s back in 1981. He hit 822 ( 373 kilos ) in a national before that weighing under 190 pounds. All his hamstrings could handle he hauled up. He never really recovered but wanted to send his compliments to Louie Simmons for this excellent exercise.

# 3 Deadlift variety

Many still train the deadlift two times a week. In the early days, it was not rare to deadlift three times a week. Veli Kumpuniemi, the only man we call Mr Deadlift in Finland, trained deadlift sometimes four times a week. Here's some pulls to use:

Deadlift standing on the block. Many used 2-6 inch block and pulled standing on it. That has been a pull used very often. Many did these for 3-5 reps using conventional style even if they pulled sumo in meets.
Straigth leg deadlifts. These were done off floor or using a block under feet. There were two styles. Some pulled with a bent over style, rounding the lower back. Some, like Janne Toivanen, Ismo Lappi and Ano Turtiainen, pulled in a romanian style with arched back and pushing glutes to rear. With a round back, most used only 40-50% for high reps like 10´s or so. For the romanian style, some go quite heavy. Janne Toivanen hauled up 4x661 from an 4 inch box and Ano Turtiainen has done 5x727 off floor.
Olympic pulls. These were done many times as a warm-up or speed work before the deadlifting. High pulls, raw cleans, raw snatches were the most common. The old school did some pulls with straight legs like Russians.
Pulls with a snatch grip. This has two variations too. Some pulled the weight all the way up and some just up to past knees. These developed technique by forcing you to keep shoulders in line and it´s a good one correct technique.
Partials. Hannu Saarelainen did partials on knee level, just moving the bar from below to above the knee. The bar traveled 8-10 inches in the area where the leverages were the poorest. He did high reps with rather light weight. He tried to get speed too to overcome the sticking point as fast as possible. By concentrating on weakness enabled Hannu to pull 765 in 242´s with quite poor leverages for deadlift. Rack pulls and pulls where the bar is on blocks are common, although they do not benefit as many as you could imagine.
Hack deadlifts. Many long armed lifters were able to pull with the bar behind their back. This form of deadlift developed the leg drive and helped to get the bar off floor.

# 4 Technique

Veli Kumpuniemi stated that if his foot stance was half inch off, the bar stayed on floor. And Veli was ranked rather a power puller than a technique expert which he was too. The conventional deadlift was always mostly back work. But the sumo pullers were sort of split in two categories. People like Raimo Välineva and Hannu Malinen, the 1988 IPF World champion, used the hips alot. Raimo Välineva was the developer of the style maximized hip drive in sumo deadlift. Lifters with extreme tecnique had quite a difference between sumo and conventional deadlift. Ari Virtanen, the little brother of Jarmo had one of the best technique I have ever seen. Every weight he got off floor he finished too. Ari´s best conventional was around 570-580 and he pulled 677 with sumo in `91 World's. Pirjo Savola, the European Record holder in 123´s with 446 said she has a best conventional of 360-370 range.
Sumo lifters with a strong back, like Veli Kumpuniemi, Janne Toivanen and Aarre Käpylä locked out their legs way before extending their torso. Aarre Käpylä, who pulled 10x661 via conventional too, got the most out of his hips by keeping his legs almost straight. Jarmo Virtanen, an eight time IPF World champ, used the technique.
People used to think that Jarmo Virtanen was just very talented and had good leverages. They couldn't be more wrong. He had many things on perfecting the technique. Once he demonstrated the difference between relaxed and flexed shoulders. By dropping shoulders and using sumo, the distance was 12 inches shorter than using conventional with flexed upper body. He stressed the importance of being relaxed while deadlifting .
You should climb to tree from bottom. Most advised to learn to pull conventional first, then switch to sumo. Reijo Kiviranta, Kullervo Lampela and other conventional style greats stressed two key points. The is to push your knees over the bar in the start position. This brings the hips closer to bar and makes the leverages better. The other thing was to turn feet out. This helped the lockout and enabled specially the bigger lifters to use their hip muscles.

# 5 Basic strength and GPP

Like mentioned in beginning, many early day deadlifters did physical labor which laid good background for training heavy and often. Olympic lifting was an aid too.
Many of todays lifters don´t do any other physical work than train with weights. So the GPP has to come from somewhere else. Janne Toivanen did an extra workout six times a week, early in the morning. He did abs, side work and sometimes lower back work together with some aerobic training and streching. His training program would kill most people, but he found a way to back it up. Ismo Lappi does the same type of workouts too. It keeps the bodyfat low and aids recovery.
At the moment five or six our strongmen pull 800 pounds or more. They have long competitive season when their weight training is mostly for conditioning and recovery. Their training is one form of conjugate method. They carry, drag, lift stones and flip tires and cars using the same muscles that are important in deadlifting. Jukka Laine did 804 in September ´98 and had deadlifted twice during the summer. All he did was the event training and many meets. Jouko Aholas deadlift stayed in the same range with no deadlift training at all. He used a short cycle to peak and succeeded with 853 in meet. Janne Virtanen and Juha Räsänen both pull over 800 too, 837 is their best in training but either of them haven't attended in any meets so far.

# 6 Assistance work

Most supplemented their training with wide variety of assistance exercises. Two key muscle groups were upper back and lats and the abs.
As you noticed, I ranked Mr Deadlift, Veli Kumpuniemi as a strenght puller. Here's why. What do think about chins with up to 200 pounds for 5-6 reps, bent over rows using 400+ pounds or doing one arm rows with 185 pound dumbbell for 8-10 reps ? It was usual stuff for him and it was assistance work, not something he shot for.
Weighted chins are quite common still but the variety is wide. Ano Turtiainen likes to do lat pulls with different handles, and low pulley rows. He does chest supported and bent over rows too. Many do shrugs every now and then.
The lifters in the early 80`s or late 70`s trained abs with flat or incline sit-ups using weight many times. Side work was done using a short bar or dumbbell. One other thing they did was one arm deadlifts. They stressed the stabilizing muscles a lot too. Today a variety of leg raises, pull down abs in lat machine and abs done in a ab machine add the number of exercises alot. One thing that has become popular last years is the ab wheel. Most lifters do it on their knees using plate on their back, it targets the abs more instead of hip flexors.
As you see, the low back was trained pretty much with the main exercises, squats and pulls. The older school did also good mornings, mostly after squatting for 5-10 rep sets. Then they became a forgotten exercise until last years. Ano Turtiainen went way over 700 pounds using bands and two sets of chains as an extra resistance during his preparation for WPO semi´s. The other thing many did and still do is back extensions. These are usually done with a bar on back. Rauno Rinne used these regularly and pulled 799 in 220´s.

# 7 Jarmo Virtanen´s deadlift secrets

Jarmo Virtanen, who many consider the best powerlifter ever in Europe, was great in the deadlift. He was an excellent squatter too. Here's some things behind his success.
In his youth he trained both power lifting and weightlifting at the same time. He also trained other sports like football and has always done some sort of physical labor. His GPP has always been high. A lot of different squats and deadlifts insured a high SPP level. A nine time IPF World Champ did lifts like high bar, front and squats with different stances. He deadlifted with both conventional and sumo, he estimated that he may have done little more conventional work than sumo. Sometimes he used the snatch grip too. One of his deadlift variations was sumo off an 1 inch blocks. He sometimes went quite high on these, 694 was his best.
He pulled conventional sets where he stopped the bar before it hit the floor to develop static strength and tightness in the start position. When using sumo, he always did every rep as the first one. Jarmo said that bouncing the bar off is a waste specially in the sumo style. He developed speed by high pulls. He did not extend his hips in the weightlifting style. He continued the pull with upper back and traps to the navel level.
He had a picture perfect technique, specially in the ´80s when he hasn't hurt hips thigh. He developed that by squatting with an ultra wide stance, sometimes he used a Smith-machine to be able to squat as upright as possible. He practiced technique with no weights in front of mirror. It was his routine every day for six months. As far as assistance go, he did a lot of ab work but has never done good mornings. He felt they make you too stiff. He stressed the importance of being relaxed, specially in the upper body area and felt it was crucial for getting better leverages in the deadlift and squat too.
Jarmo never really maxed out in the gym and usually stayed under 300 kilos in training. He was great competitor. In 1988, in our national record breakers in the biggest ice hockey venue at the time, he hauled up 358 kilos twice but dropped it just before down signal. With torn hand, he came back and pulled it again just to loose the grip again before the ”down” command. Year before, when lifting in 75 kilo class he was on a roll. In the World's in Norway he opened with 677 and went to WR 333 and pulled it nicely. Then he attacked twice to 340,5 kilos ( 750 pounds ) but the grip was his nemesis. Before he got the grip problem fixed, he hurt his outer thigh. There was, and still is, some scar tissue that is pressing to nerves. With the grip he had in `90s and the better technique and flexibility of `80s he would have gone a lot more. Many times I have wondered why his squat went up 20 kilos but the deadlift stayed the same. Believe it or not, he never got the best out of him in the deadlift. A 815-826 deadlift and 900 kilo ( 1984 pound ) total where something he capable of but never achieved.
We have had lots of great pullers and power lifters and we had Jarmo Virtanen. He is one of a kind. One sign of his true sportsmanship was this interview. He has always willing to help anyone whether it is training, coaching or giving seminars.
Being a no class deadlifter myself, I have given this a lot of thought. Reijo Kiviranta, the 1981 World Champ in 242´s put it together nicely by saying that the one who lifts the most has trained the most. After reading this article, you can get a picture what he meant. There is no secrets at all, just pure hard work. It's the cold hard truth. If you want to finish on top you have to be a good deadllifter. So it's time for some deadlift labor, good luck !

Sakari Selkäinaho

 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Coan/Phillipi Deadlift Routine

SOURCE LINK: http://www.powerpage.net/coanphildead.html


Coan/Phillipi Deadlift Routine

ADDED WEDNESDAY, August 7, 2002

I used this routine the last 10 weeks to take my deadlift from 505 to 540. I had at least another 20-30lbs left as well!! I am a believer in this routine, I had tried many things for my dead but until my good friend Ed Coan got me to do this nothing really worked. This jump started me and then some!! Since I have had so many request about it and now it been tested in a meet I am posting for all to see.

There are two parts to this, first I will list the Weekly progression of sets/reps and assistance to be performed, how they are done and how much. The second part is gonna be an Excel Spreadsheet with formulas that you need to download and plug in your numbers to get the weight to be used each week on Deadlifts, Speed Deads, and Shrugs.

PART I

The percentages are taken from this projected max. The first 4 weeks are based on working up to a heavy set and dropping to work short rest period sets concentrating on speed and acceleration of movement. This will help condition your back. This will prepare you to lift with your back pre-fatigued which happens at the meet.

The last 6 weeks are used to peak out with all volume work taking place on the way down with short rest periods.

DEADLIFT PROGRAM (Do your regular warmups prior to doing the below)

WEEK
WORK SETS
SPEED SETS

1
(75%)x 2 reps
(60%)8 sets x 3 reps (90 sec rest b/w sets)

2
(80%)x 2 reps
(65%)8 sets x 3 reps (90 sec rest b/w sets)

3
(85%)x 2 reps
(70%)6 sets x 3 reps (90-120 sec rest b/w sets)

4
(90%)x 2 reps
(75%)5 sets x 3 reps (90-120 sec rest b/w sets)

5
(80%)3 sets x 3 reps
(65%)3 sets x 3 reps (120 sec rest b/w sets)

6
(85%)x 2 reps
(70%)3 sets x 3 reps (120 sec rest b/w sets)

7
(90%)x 2 reps
(75%)3 sets x 3 reps (120 sec rest b/w sets)

8
(95%)x 2 reps
(70%)3 sets x 3 reps (120 sec rest b/w sets)

9
(97.5%)x 1 rep
(70%)2 sets x 3 reps (Rest as needed)

10
(100%)x 1 rep
(60%)2 sets x 3 reps (Rest as needed)

11
MEET DAY
N/A


ASSISTANCE WORK

WEEKS 1-4: Work through the following exercises in a circuit format. Resting 90 seconds between each exercise (DO NOT SUPER SET). Do 8 reps and rest 2-3 minutes between the end of the circuit and beginning of the circuit again. Do this 3 times for a total of 3x8 reps on each exercise.

1.) Stiff Leg Deadlifts
2.) Bent Over Rows
3.) Underhand Grip Lat Pulldowns
4.) Arched Back Good Mornings

WEEKS 5-6: You will do the following exercises for 3 sets of 5. (DO NOT CIRCUIT, Do one exercise finish all your sets and move on to next exercise. Rest 90-120 sec between sets.)

1.) Power Shrugs
2.) Stiff Leg Deadlifts
3.) Bent Over Rows
4.) Underhand Grip Lat Pulldowns
5.) Arched Back Good Mornings

Now here is where it gets tricky. In the following table you will see what percentage to use on Power Shrugs ONLY. Do sets/reps as prescribed in table above for weeks 5-6.

WEEK 5: Power Shrugs (60%) of Dead max
WEEK 6: Power Shrugs (65%) of Dead max
WEEK 7: Power Shrugs (70%) of Dead max
WEEK 8: Power Shrugs (75%) of Dead max
WEEK 9: Power Shrugs (75%) of Dead max

WEEKS 7-8: Now here is where the volume will drop and you will start to drop the number of sets you do for each exercise on assistance. Use the below table as a guideline for sets beginning with week 7.

Week 7--2 sets of each exercise
Week 8--2 sets of each exercise

WEEKs 9-10: Now we drop most of the assistance to start to rest up for meet by reducing the volume of work done. Follow the below table for the last two weeks of Cycle. Do only the assistance listed below!!

Week 9

Week 10
2 sets of Shrugs(75%)

NO ASSISTANCE
2 sets of St Leg Deads



PART II

Download the Excel spreadsheet and plug in your current max and desired max at the top and it will automatically calculate what you are to do weight wise for each week as detailed in the first chart above.

CLICK FOR SPREADSHEET HERE

CONCLUSION

I know this routine works, I have done it with 100% sucess. I have also spread this to others and they are so far seeing similar resutls. My training partner Clint has also seen great progress from this and I fully expect BIG things from him in his meet in Feb 2003!! But be forewarnded, this is a tough routine, one of the toughest I have ever tried. You may think your in shape but wait till you start this, the Puke factor on a scale of 1 to 10 is a 12!! Be tough, have fun and you will reap the rewards!!
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Training Theory by Angelface from Meso

These posts were from the old Meso board and are now in one of the stickies there. Probably a great foundation, sure would help if a BBing magazine printed something like this rather than their usual trash.

Source Thread: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=8500

Date: 09/30/01 09:44 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Here we go

...Right then I've basically decided to create this thread pretty much
as a resource on training theory...What I intend to do is make this
thread kinda like a text book so that anyone can refer to it if they
need to know something...this will take me a while to complete so I am
gonna do it in installments like small chapters...If the thread looks
like its gonna disappear cuz I havent posted can you please bump it to
keep the sucka active?... ...Why am I doing this? well for 2 reasons
really...the first is so that everyone out there has access to theories
that they may not neccessarily be familiar with...therefore I hope
everyone will learn something from this thread or at least it will jog
their memories and make you think a little... Plus I am getting
complacent so this will hopefully serve as a refresher for myself and
get me thinking again!... ...I will try to make it as readable as I can
so its not gonna be mega scientific or complex because I dont have the
resources...all information that I will post...I will backup with
literature when the thread is completed....Its not gonna be realy long
just enough to present you with some good basic information and
hopefully introduce you all to training theory so that you can apply it
to yourself... If anyone has got anything to add please feel free to do
so...


Date: 09/30/01 10:29 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Basic Concepts...

...This first few parts will deal with a few basic theories and will be
somewhat introductory. ...ADAPTATION.. Adaptation is both the primary
target of training in general and one of the most important laws that
governs the way we train. A simple definition of adaptation would be
adjustment to environment. Consequently when the environment is subject
to change so too would be the object. The primary objective in training
is to incite explicit adaptations to increase performance. Consequenlty
it can be seen that the application of a carefully contrived training
program is imperitive. For adaptation to occur then the stimulus for the
adaptation has to be at a greater level than the current standing. To
increase the magnitude manipulating the intensity, volume and modality
is often employed. Consequnetly if the same stimulus is being presented
over a long period of time then once intial adaptations have occured
there will be no more changes thus a plateau forms. Training loads are
often categorized into three areas according to the 'magnitude' that
they correspond to ... ...The first would be a stimulating
magnitude...here the training load is above the habitual level... ...The
second is retaining...this is where the level is neutral and thus
maintained... ...The third is thus detraining...here the magnitude is
beneath the habitual level and thus a decline in performance is
observed. Essentially for any positive adaptation to occur then OVERLOAD
must be created. In the absence of overload typically performance will
either be maintined for a period of time or decrease. This is governed
by accomodation. ACCOMODATION is in essence a decrease in response
observed to a continual stimulus. Thus interms of training continual
stimulus results in a loss of reponse. Resulting in a plateau, training
thus becomes redundant. This concept neccessitates the need to present
yourslef with variety. It is unwise to present yourself with the same
stimulus for a long period of time. Avoidance of the accomodation effect
can be achievd by the simple application of variety achieved via
quantitaive (load, volume intensity etc)and qualitative (types of
exercises performed) measures. Adaptation to training stimulus is
specific. For a particular training goal to be observed the stimulus
(training) has to be specific to the goal. Consequently it would be
unwise for an olympic weightlifter to train like an endurance athlete
and vice versa. SPECIFICITY is the application of the training stimulus
to the nature of the intended goal. Therefore if an individual wanted to
increase his benchpressing ability it woudl be wise to train the muscles
resposibles for the movement.... ...

Date: 09/30/01 04:25 PM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Adaptations as response to training part1...

...Adaptations as a response to the training stimulus can be classified
as either Central (CNS)and peripheral (pertaining to the muscle). The
importance of the central nervous system cannot be underestimated. to
appreciate the adaptations that occur centrally we must first be aware
of how these central factors work. Typically central factors fall into
two distinct categories. The first is intramuscular coordination..this
relates to which the muscle fibres can be activated voluntarily.
Intermuscular coordination is the coordinated innervation of appropriate
muscell groups and is thus skill related. Motor units are the essential
foundations of the motor system. Typically they consist of motoneurons,
axons, motor endplates, and muscle fibres activated by a motor neuron.
Motor units are generally classified into to groups based on their
contractile characteristics. Slow motor units are typically used for
prolonged use at low intensities, they consist of small low threshold
motor neurons axos with low conduction frequencies and slow twitch
muscle fibres. Consequently fast motor units are the antithesis of slow
motor units. They will consist of a large high threshold motor neuron,
an axon with a high conduction velocity and fast twitch muscle fibres.
the activation of a motor unit is solicited by an all or nothing law.
basically this dictates that a motor unit either fires or it doesnt.
Consequently there is no alteration in the inetnisty of firing, they
either fire or they dont. the Central nervous system governs muscle
force via three methods...RECRUITMENT, RATE CODING and SYNCHRONIZATION.
The recruitment pattern of the motor units during a voluntary
contraction is dependant on the size of the motor neurons (Size
principle). the motorneurons with the lowest firing threshold
(smaller)are recruited first, conseqnelty the more the intensity
increases the larger forces neccessary to generate are done so via
increasing the recruitment of the larger motorneurons. Consequently no
matter what the intensity of exercise slow twich fibres will be
recruited to some extent. The achieving of full motor unit activation is
deemed particularly difficult thus untrained individuals cannot recruit
all their motor units. one of the primary adaptations that occurs as
aresponse to weight training is an increase in the ability to recruit
Motor units. thus trained individual have an increased propensity for
motor unit activation. RATE CODING is the discharge frequency of the
motorneurons. With an increase in force needed, firing rate will
increase to accomodate. Synchronisation...motor units work in harmony to
achieve a fluid movemnt pattern. Within the muscle there are specific
inhibitory mechanisms that inhibit the amount of force that can be
generated. These are known as Golgi tendon organs and Renshaw cells. It
is common in life or death situation for a completely untrained
individual to be able to produce massive amounts of force...this is most
likely due to an inactivation of these inhibitory mechanisms. It has
been shown that with strength training a reuction in neural inhibition
can occur increasing the amount of strength that can be generated due to
an increase in the recruitable 'motorneron pool'. Exercise is a highly
skillful sequence that requires the complex coordination of several
muscel groups (intermuscular coordination). Consequently motor learning
or the acquisition of skillshould be a primary training objective.
Dramatic strength increases in beginners is oftem the result of skill
acquisition, consequently this type of adaptaion has little cross over
benefit. Next time I will concntrate on the peripheral adaptations and
consequently the theories of muscular growth.


Date: 10/01/01 11:55 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Adaptations part 2 - peripheral

O.K in the last post I presented a few of the central adaptations that
can occur. These adaptations are repsonsible for the observation of
strength increases without hypertophy. Consequently for the first few
weeks of training when initial increases in strength are observed, the
strength increases are deemed to be the result of neuromuscular
efficiency.
...Peripheral adaptations, this is the area that we as bodybuilders will
be most concerned with. Again I will introduce a few concepts. I will
briefly discuss hypertrophy and hyperplasia. For those that dont have an
understanding of physiology I will briefly explain a few basic concepts.
Again I will keep it pretty simple as I dont want to blind everyone with
science.
Skeletal muscles consist of many many fibres. these are long and
cylindrical in shape they are the cells. Each of the fibres is made up
of myofibrils, which are made up of sarcomeres. These sarcomeres are
made up of both thick (myosin)and thin filaments(actin). The myosinf
filaments have small crossbridges projecting outwards on the end of
these protrusions is the myosin head.
Muscle contraction (known as the sliding filament theory) is the result
of the myosin and actin filaments sliding across each other. This is
because the myosin heads attach the actin and basically pull the
filamnts over each other. This results in a shortening of the sarcomere.
So everytime you contract a muscle this is what happens, it shortens
because the filaments slide. Hence a muscle can only pull, it cannot
push. Muscles with longer sarcomeres (filaments) generally can exert a
greater force because they have more room to overlap. All sarcomeres of
the myofibrils exert the same amount of force, they act in a linear
fashion.
The force produced by a muscle fibre is dependant on the number of actin
and myosin filaments and thus the number of myofibrils. One of the main
adaptations of training is an increased number of myofibrils per muscle
fibre, and an increase in the density and size of the filaments. This
will result in an increase in the cross sectional area (size) of a
muscle. Consequently from this assertion it can be seen why a bigger
muscle is potentially a stronger muscle.
muscle force is dependant on the number of muscle fibres, cross
sectional area of the fibres and thus size.
Increase in muscle size is called muscle hypertophy and is caused by
either an increased number of motor fibre (fibre hyperplasia) or an
increase in the cross sectional area of a muscle fibre(fibre
hypertophy).
Here we will deal with two types of fibre hypertophy, myofibrillar and
sarcoplasmic. Sarcoplasmic hypertophy is the increase in size of the
sarcoplasm, typically filament density will decrease with sarcoplasmic
hypertophy, so that it is possible for a fibre CSA to increase without
increases in strength. Myopfibrillar hypertophy is an enlargement of the
muscle fibre because more myofibrils are formed, consequently it is
usually followed by an increase in filament density and thus strength
increases.
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is associated with an increase in
noncontractile tissues, which is why filamnt density decreases.
Myofibrillar hypertophy typically results in an increase in contractile
tissues hence the increase in density and strength.
There are many theories as to how weight training results in hpertophy,
the most widely accpeted theory is that of the breakdown and build up
theory.
This theory in its most basic form speculates that all energy during
exhaustive weigh training is spent on the training itself resulting in
the creation of a catabolic state. Consequently a deficit forms during
training where more amino acids are being broken down than synthesized.
After training protein synthesis is increased massively both post
workout and up till the next session. Protein synthesis will then drop
again during training. The purported increase in muscle size is due to
the fluctuation of protein synthesis which is alleged to result in
SUPERCOMPENSATION of protein and thus hypertophy. This alone
neccesitates the need for more protein in the diet (so fuck off RDAs
etc!).
I wont cover the hormonal affects of training unless you want me to as
some of you will probably want to commit suicide due to boredom!
Phewwwwww, got that (I hope so) I am sure that what I probably just
typed (very badly I am sure as per usual!) will make no sense whatsoever
so I apologise for how this thread will read...not exactly enthralling
stuff i know but it will get much better I promise!
next time we shall cover SUPERCOMPENSATION amoungst a few other
things...


Date: 10/03/01 12:34 PM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Basic Training theories

...After a couple of suggestions I have had I will try my best to keep
things easy reading...today's topic is really
straightforward...regarding what I have spoke about previously I will
edit it and make it more readable...plus I may have to add quite a bit
more physiological stuff and biochemistry depending on how the thread
evolves...
...Anyway SUPERCOMPENSATION...this is a really basic and somewhat
obvious concept that for a while was accepted quite widely...however
nowadays it is deemed a bit too simplistic. This theory is based on the
assumption that training will deplete certain substances, obvious
examples would be glycogen...One theory about hypertophy is that
training acts catabolically. The training serves as a stimulus, after
the training there is the neccessary rest period. After the rest period
it is puported that the appropriate substance concentration will
increase to a level beyond the initial point. Simple really! Now to
ensure that this would happen rest periods would have to be optimal.
optimal is an expression used alot in science, which basically means
desirable. If the rest period was too short then the individual would
not be completely recovered and as such the training would deplete the
substance even more which over a period of time would result in
overtraining and a loss of performance ie: training 4 times a day!. If
the rest interval was too long then the training would lose its stimulus
property, the individual would recover completely and lose the window of
oppurtinutity to provide the stimulus again. So ultimately the
individual would never improve...ie if yu trained once every 2-3 weeks,
you simply would not improve. If the interval is optimal then
improvemnts surely follow.
This theory is then dependant on two factors really: Optimal rest
interval, Optimal load selection. With regards to loads, the load has to
be such so that it stimulates optimally, it cannot be too high or low.
Typically this theory is represented on a wave like diagram (I will link
these asap.). An obvious example of the supercompensation theory is carb
loading. With carb loading for a period of time you deplete the muscle
stores, which would results in a massive drop in CHO levels, after this
occurs an individual would overfeed with an abundance of carbs, the body
is alleged then to store more carbs than the pre depletion level within
the muscle tissue resulting in a greater concentration of carbs. This is
often applied to more than gylcogen, training is alleged to cause a
similar repsonse to protein synthesis, hence the 'break down and build
up' theory. I will post later on with regards to a more complex
approach!.


Date: 10/05/01 05:33 AM
Author: Angel face
Subject: Two Factor Theory

For this I will be refering to 'the science and practise of strength
training' by Vladimir Zatsiorky as mentioned by John earlier...I forgot
how good this book is and I recommend that anyone interested in this
area to buy it...be warned though if you think that what I say is
confucing just wait.... ...Two factor theory, also called Fitness
fatigue theory is somewhat more complex than supercompensation theory.
This theory is entirely dependant on one thing Zatsiorsky referes to it
as preparedness...I prefer base conditioning. This preparedness or
condition is comprised of two componants: slow changing and fast
changing. Zatsiorsky uses the example of fitness as a slow changing
componant of preparedness. This is because over the short term fitness
does not fluctuate often, however external factors can affect it ie:
illness. Zatsiorsky describes prepardness as a set of 'latent
charcteristics' (he means that they exist but are dependantly
intangible)...these charcteristics can only be measured or quantified at
certain times. Sounds quite complex but you will grasp it soon!...
...This theory works similar to an equillibrium, training will have an
immediate affect (similar to supercompensation) that is the combination
of fatigue and gain. So after a workout, because of the stimulus that it
provides preparedness or conditioning increases (gain) but at the same
time will decrease due to fatigue from the training. Hopefully things
now will start to make sense.
So, the outcome of the training session is the result of both the
positive and negative consequences of the training session. These two
outcomes depend on time as does the one factor theory
(supercompensation). By striking the correct balance, fatigue should be
large in extent but short in how long it lasts. Gain on the other hand
should be moderate however is longer in duration. Typically the
relationship is 1:3, if fatigue lasts x amount of time then gain lasts
3x amount of time.
...From these two theories that have been introduced you should all now
be able to see that the most importnat factor that they introduce is
timing! with the supercompensation theory it is preferable for the next
workout to fall in the supercompensation period. With the
fitness-fatigue theory timing is best if the proceeding workout takes
place when all the negative consequneces (fatigue) of training are
diminsihed but the positive (gain) is still apparent. When I find a site
with the neccessary diagram I will try to link it!


Date: 10/05/01 07:09 PM
Author: johnsmith
Subject: RE: Two Factor Theory

hate to butt in here, but let me explain what i think are the
important things about these theories...
given the one factor theory, which looks at physical ability as, or
course, one factor, you are left with the problem of timing workouts
to correspond to the supercompensation wave... anything sooner or
later will lead to a useless workout.
given the two factor theory, which seperates physical fitness or
prepardness and fatigue, you see that the timing of individual
workouts it is unimportant to long term gains... in other words
regardless of whether or not fatigue is or is not present, fitness can
still be increased...
what is important to note is that there is almost universal agreement
amoung scientists and athletes and coaches in all sports EXCEPT
bodybuilding that the two factor theory is correct and the single
factor theory is not correct and is in fact suitable only for
beginners to follow when planning training.
it is also important to note that most athletes in most sports are
experiencing some level of constant fatigue ALWAYS, except for maybe a
couple of weekends a year, when they are peaking. training takes place
daily against a backdrop of fatigue.

Date: 10/08/01 03:18 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: RE: Two Factor Theory

I am glad you brought this up John, thanks...
...with regards to fatigue yes it is always there only it rises and
falls depending on rest...the accumulation of stresses induced by
training and other variables contribut to fatigue...fatigue has a
mounting effect wherein it can slowly build up and build up until
OTS (over training syndrome) is achieved...this is one of the many
major fundamental reasonings for the peaking phase of periodisation.
And most probably Mike Mentzer's arguments for HIT...so eventially
training can become counterproductive.
...as to why the 2 factor theory is not accepted in BBing I dont
know why...do you John? or anyone else for that matter?...


Date: 10/08/01 03:10 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: Intensity

...This is a bigee and therefore I wil dedicate a few posts to
this...cheers for the positive response fellas I really appreciate
it...John, anytime you've got soemthing to add go right ahead mate...I
was hoping that you would contribute to this thread...I kinda feel like
training methods are undervalued hence one of the reasons for me
starting this thread.
...Intensity is a term that is used interchangeably with several
concepts...by this I mean that there are several different ways of
interpreting what constitutes intensity...Often these can be conflicting
but in essence it relates to how hard one is performing...Right then
intensity can be quantified via 4 (usually) criterion assessments:
intensity as a percntage of 1 RM...in Sports sci circles this is the
most common measurement of intensity with regards to strength training
(for aerobic type work intensity is usually measured via %age of max
heart rate)...consequently the closer you are to you 1 Rm in a
particular exercise the higher intensiy that you are working at...the
number of sets performed per hour, this obviuosley correlated to rest
intervals, the shorter the rest interval the more sets that can be
performed and thus the higher intensity...repetitions (this is
conditional really as are all the measures of intensity!)...this general
rule of thumb dictates that the closer you work to failure the higher
intensity (I will address failure several times later on!) you are
working at example: if you can perform 10 reps with x amount of weight
performing 8 reps is more intense than performing 5...the final
measurement is not often employed in the western world and really is
only applicable to competetive athletes in strength sports not
BBers...this is similar to the 1 rm intensity measure...this measure of
intensity is expressed as a %age of highest attained weight or PB...this
differentiates between training weight and competition
weights...external variables such as crowd reaction, motivating factors
etc etc can significantly (I dont use the word significantly lightly..I
am currently using it in the scientific sense of the term!)affect the
amount of weight lifted...anyone familar with the sports psychology term
'flow' or the 'zone' will understand that during competition there are
unexplainable periods wherein an athltes performs their best above any
training measure (whether it be weight lifted or time ran etc etc,
everything comes together effortlessly) hence this intensity measure
quantifies intensity as a %age of competiton weight...this is usually
done via heart rate...if an individual elicits a particularly elevated
HR prior to a lift then that lift is beyond what can be lifted during
training...This was originally a soviet technique (I think, dont quote
me on that)...so what I am trying to say is there are 2 intensities one
is with the presence of stress (eustress is a positive stress that is
beneficial) and without stress...I wont cover this method (thank god i
will be explaining it forever! unless some of the powerlifters would
want me too, let me know if your interested!)...With regards to the %age
of 1 Rm it is important to note that every idividual is different
depending on many factors such as neural efficiency, fibre ratio and so
on...basically if two atrhletes can bench 300lbs for 1 RM...they wont
neccesarilt be able to perform 10 reps with same amount of weight.
...I will cover intensity a lot more very soon!...I will adress training
to failure, optimal rep ranges for goals, TUT (time under
tension!)submaximal training and HIT (whats the betting that this causes
controversey)...also I am gonna apologise in advance as i will be
editing the physio. stuff and including more scientifc terms and
jargon...however its essential that you understand it before we
continue!.


Date: 10/09/01 03:20 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: Intensity cont.

Intensity again, as mentioned this is a V. large area so I will be
dealing with it several more times...this pretty much goes hand in hand
with training to failure and as this area has sparked some recent
discussions I will be covering this area several times, from a couple of
different view points...so what is said is not always gospel or an
exact...
...First off training with maximal weights...O>k before I delve into
this I want you to remember rate coding - smallest MUs first etc..well
unless a maximal load is lifted then only a portion of Motor Units are
utilised...Your body will only innervate the amount of Motor units that
are neccessary to perform the task!
...Back to Max weights, essentially gains elicited from max weight are
the result of the two previuos theories of neural adaptation:
intermuscular coordination and intramuscular coordination. Therefore the
majority of gains are not related to muscle growth but neural
efficiency...again I ask you to remeber what was mentioned previuosly
about hypertrophy in paticular the breakdown build up theory of protein
catabolism (training induces catabolism rest and recovery plus adaquate
protein intake induces supercompensation of protein and thus muscle
growth takes place) well because not enough WORK is performed when using
max weights (work = Force x Time, force = mass x acceleration)to
potentiate the neccessary muscle catabolism so that the anabolism can
take place...
...Training to failure via repeated subamaximal reps...this process of
training poetentiates differnet effects. Essentially as more work is
peformed in conjunction with rate coding, more motor units are recruited
to perform the set, again due to the fact that more work is performed
catabolism is markedly higher than training with maximal
weights....however strength gain is not the same as the most allegidle
important reps are performed at the end of set approaching
failure...this is because the higher threshold fatigueing motor units
are recruited and fatigued...thus causing the neccessary training effect
however as they are recruited while 'semi fatigued' the training effect
is not as significant on these motor units in comparison with max
weights.
...training submaximally from what has been mentioned above it would
seem fair to assume that this type of training would be pretty useless
unless it is performed to failure...however the difference between
taking a set to failure or to 1 or even 2 reps before failure will occur
seems negligible..plus by ,manipulating rest intervals shortening the
amount of rest inbetween consecutibe sets intensity is increased or by
increaseing the amount of time it takes to perform the
repetition...training to the exact moment of failure is not neccessarily
imperative...
So then it would appear that a big muscle isnt a strong muscle well this
is inaccurate, again nerual factors offer the reasoning...again I will
use rate coding it is extremely difficult to increase the strength of
slow motor units, hypertophy mainly occurs in the type 2a muscle fibres
(fast/intermediary fibres), consequently there is a correlation between
the size of a fast twitch muscle fibre and strength because the main
training adaptations occur in that muscle fibre type(s)...refering back
to what was said previoulsy about hypertophy due to increased
contrcatile proteins increases strength and muscle size....again this
will be discussed later.
...Next time I will present a different view on training to failure.


Date: 10/11/01 12:40 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: Intensity and Failure

Now this is where we start to get to the nitty gritty, but first I will
have to cover some background stuff on fatigue...for this I am assuming
that you have knoweldge of how energy is formed...if not let me know and
I will post some info...
ATP/Pc factors: Intramuscular levels of ATP fall rapidly during
exercise...this is thought to be one of the major factors in fatigue...
Creatine Phosphate levels fall rapidly at the onset of exercise, after a
period of roughly 30 secs levels may be as low as 5% of the prexercise
concentration. Consequenlty there wont be optimal levels of CP to
replenish ATP stores.
Creatine Phosphate fuels the ADP/ ATP conversion, as levels of CP
decline levels of ATP get depleted.
The ATP/PC system fuels the first few seconds of exercise...after which
anaerobic glycolysis takes place... a buy product of glycolysis is
Lactic acid, which casues a build-up in the muscle cells of Hydrogen
ions (H+) raising the p.H.... Which affects the process that exposes
actin cross-bridging sites (troponin) and permit muscle contraction. ATP
formation is also affected.
calcium ions (Ca++) are released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum by the
T tubules during muscle contraction and returned by the Ca-Pump.
Reduced sarcoplasmic Ca++ concentrations has been linked to fatigue.
Declines in force that can be produced have been linked to declined
levels of CA++ (Calcium ions). This is because decreased Ca++ released
reduces the number of actin/myosin cross-bridges that can be formed.
This is most likely to be due to impairement of the T-tubule. While
exercising potassium ions (K+)build up in the T-tubules, this is due to
the inability of the Na+K+ ATPase (breaks down ATP) Pump (sodium,
potassium atpase pump) to maintain the proper Na+/K+ balance at the
T-tubules. This affects the conduction of the action potential (these
cause movement to occur...like an electrical impulse) to the
sarcoplasmic reticulum, consequently Ca++ release is inhibited affecting
one's capacity to contract a muscle. lactic acid again builds yup here
and once again intracellular H+ concentrations increase, this then slows
the uptake of Ca++ by the sarcoplasmic reticulum, because the H+ affects
the pump. Therefore there is a marked reduction in levels of Ca++
As should be obviuos ATP is broken and provides the energy for
contraction (into ADP and Pi)this inorganic phosphate (Pi) builds up.
Increased Pi levels are thought to inhibit further cross-bridges being
formed between the filaments. As ATP is used to fuel the muscle
contraction, Pi is released from the myosin head. Increased
concentrations of Pi affects this from happening.


Date: 10/11/01 02:02 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: Intensity and Failure

That being said I can now continue...HIT popularized by Mike mentzer
(hope this doesnt open up the proverbial can of worms!)is based on the
premise that If you don't take your sets to failure, then you are not
presenting your body with the stimulus to adapt because you can
perform the appropriate amount of reps. Therefore as you take your
reps to failure, you are presenting the stimulus by forcing your body
to cope with something that it cannot do (remeber the original post!).
Consequently you adapt because you have forced yourself to do
something that it simply cannot do...seems logical and simple right!
But you have to ask yourself, why are so many powerlifters muscular if
they dont train to failure? as with olympic lifters!
...I take you back to the theory of rate coding..essentially you fail
in an exercise because there are not sufficiently rested muscle fibres
to perform the task...at the end of the set the only fibres that arent
fatigued are the low threshold high endurance motor units..which dont
have the neccessary force producing capabilities to perform the work.
I take you back now to the theory of supercompensation and the
subesequent breakdown and buildup theory that dictates that muscle
damage (catabolism) has to occur for the increase in proetin synthesis
to occur!...
...Research has shown that the most muscle damage occurs during the
negative paotion of the exercise (sarcomere popping!)...this is
because less muscle fibres are recruited to perform the eccentric
movemnt resulting in a greater stress on those fibres...consequently
by increasing the time that the muscle fibres are under tension (most
tension is generated during -ve portion) there in theory is a better
stimulus for muscle growth! ... from this it seems that more tension
can be generated by taking a set to failure than stopping short
because it would take longer to perform! keep this in mind!
...Back to rate coding (seems pretty important doesnt it?) as the
moment of failure draws closer the CNS will innervate all the motor
units it can to perform the reps and fire them as often as it
can...however as fatigue sets in there is a reduction in firing
frequency (up to around 70-80% I think!), consequently the rate of
twitching is not high enough to continue the exercise...thus failure
occurs.
...back to neural factors...as a nueron fires it has to release the
neurotransmitter Acetyl Choline so that the message can be
carried...as mentioned previoulsy the electrical current is passed
down the axon due to the na+ and K+ (when people refer to electrolites
in sports drinks like gatorad, lucozade, these is what they are
refering to), and the K+ Na+ atp ase pump... as failure approaches
(lack of firing) the electrolites become taxed...as failure occurs
these are virtually depleted...it is speculated that another of the
major factors in fatigue is the inability of the motor neurons to
create and release acetylcholine (ACh) fast enough so that
transmission of the action potential can be maintained from the neron
to the muscle...
It can be said that ability to produce force is dependant on power
speed and frequency of the 'electrical impulse elicited by the CNS to
contract a muscle...as fatigue develops there is a mared decrease in
the speed of these signals, as this occurs inhibitory mechanisms
(mentioned previuos) stop further contrcations occuring....
...However due to emotional factors lke psyching oneself up it is
possible to extend the time until these inhibitory mechanisms take
effect(fight or flight syndrome)...there is a ditinct relationship
between this and catecholamine levels...
...Therfore I hope that you can see that failure may not occur due to
the peripheral (muscle) factors but the Central ones...failure may not
be due to muscular fatigue but neural inhibition...the CNS does this
for one simple reason: SO THAT IT CAN REST AND RECOVER!
...If we are to believe the supercompensation theory muscle fibers
need to produce appropriate tension for a long enough period of time
to cause damage breakdown...this has the effect of growth factors to
be released in the cells Calcium levels within the cell must increase
toperpetuate both Catabolism and the required anabolic effect. Growth
stimuli may also be provided by the fatigue metabolites building up
(phosphate and hydrogen ions) due to elevated levels of lactic acid .
Please not that any of these reactions occurs because of muscular
failure!
It may become evident that failure is actaully detrimental (note to
John this would neccessiate the two factor theory, that has always
been rejected by bodybuilders) because too much stress occurs
(especially if inadequate rest intervals are used)...this would
facilitate the increasing levels of fatigue resulting in a faster
establishment of the Overtraining syndrome!
Probably the main point to take away from this is intensity and rest
should be monitored so to prevent the build up of fatigue and OTS
...Hope that wasnt too heavy I am drawing to a close soon on this
thread...It could keep going on forever...but I hope that at least its
made at least one person sit up and think about how they train and
that its not as simple as going into the gym and picking up a few
pieces of iron a few times....I hope you can bump this thread to keep
it active so that other people get to read it!


Date: 12/04/01 04:53 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: I'll restart then... (basically answering and providing extra info from here on

O.k Here I go again..I never realised that I was in demand LOL!!!
Some more info to chew over....I'll start with some basic scientifically
accpeted (I dont say proven becuase in science nothing is ever reall
solid fact!!!)...I'll update as often as possible so I wont force a load
of info down your throat on each post!!
This will all relate to hypertophy...yeah the nitty gritty!!!
factors affecting hypertophy!!!
...It seems pretty much solid that hypertophy is a form of
supercompensation as a result of the stimulus thats placed on the
musculature...theres like a million refernces for this...
I'll start with a few interesting facts that may make you sit up and
think a bit: during the average day the body turnsover (synthesis etc)
3-4 grmas of protein per KG of BW (Check out work by Balolgopal - sp???
and El-Khoury). Also, in the 'average' person muscle weighs 40-45% of
BW, (skeletal muscle = 50% of total protein)...Muslce is made up of
water and proteins in a ratio of around 4:1, 10kg of muscle = around 2kg
of protein!!!!!!!
Right then, if hypertophy is the response to stimuli, well this is based
on supercompensation as I maentioned a while back. If thats the case
then the growth is response to muscle breakdown/damage...when a muscle
fibe is overloaded it gets damaged particulalry during eccentric
contrcations...Muscle damage is massively mis understood, so I will
cover it in a bit of detail...
...the major molecular chnages that occur are purported to be due to
eccentric contractions (Protein syntheses etc)...
MUSCLE DAMAGE high tensile stress (as in eccentrcics) causes the weak
sarcomeres to pop, also leads to the adjacent sarcomeres to
pop...however this also affects the fibres metabolically: 1)Damages
Sarcoplasmic Reticulum, which may result in a loss of Calcium Iron
homestasis (Calcium helps fuel contrcations) and may result in a loss of
muscle fibres-yikes
2) Streaming, broadening and total disruption of the z bands
3) increase in temoperature of the muscle disrupting protein structures
Delayed onset muscle soreness... Causes: 1) connective tissue damage, 2)
muscle fibre shortening 3)Oedema Lasts - 24-48 hrs post exercise, fully
disappears by day 7
FORCE LOSS (of interest to the power guys!!!) for 3 days after intense
ex. there is an immediate devrease in max muscle force, why??? well
then: contractile element damage, altertaion in the sarcomere lengths
(results in less x bridges that can be formed) 3) Psychological effect
of pain and soreness...
This may not seem relevant to you at first but this pretty much
substantiates that intensity has to be monitored, you cant just go in an
train intense...plus it also makes me suspect that muscle growth isnt
just a result of increaased protein synthesis etc...
Ill leave this post here and continue on a new one...it gets more
physiological!!!

Date: 12/04/01 05:12 PM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: I'll restart then...

The responses from training are specific to the type of training
performed hence the specificity principle...
The adaptation of muscle dictates that specific proteins are degraded
and synthesised...myofibrillar proteins increase qite largely,
mitochondrial proteins increase with endurance training!!!
consequently the increase in intracellular aminos, particularly
myofibrillar with protein degredation helps to replace the high
turnover...
....Also, there maybe a possible migration of the ribosomes to the
areas that are most affected by the tyoe or training performed (to
utilse the degared proteins)...
applications...
Well then if we are to use the info posted we can see that hypertophy
is the result of poetine synthesis increases as a result of protein
degredation...which is caused by muscle damage...the most muscle is
damaged during eccentric exercise (more tension generated - because
less motor unites are used so there is greater stress ion the
individual fibres)...stretching has indeed been shown to help increae
hypertophy... consequently, for short term succes then there must be
sufficiebt stretch in the contrcatile elements (for facilitation of
muscle damamge), and tension...consequenlty, there should be an
emphasis on range of motion (to ensure stretch) and eccentric
contrcation (for tension)for protein sunthesis ....
Higher volumes of work appear to elicuit the best results (rep ranges
of 5-8 and 10-12), for multiple sets....refer to the intensity posts
for a review on optimal intenisty...
I will be covering the practical side to a geater extent, this is just
a taster!!! any questions...feel free to ask.


Date: 12/08/01 11:18 AM
Author: Angel Face (no profile)
Subject: RE: RE: I'll restart then...

Sorry mate, been well busy as of late....
Time under tension specifically towards
hyertrophy...well this theory, popularised by
charles Poliquin and Ian King mainly, is
surprisingly simple to implement and
understand...yet will help produce good results..
...easy, if we rember that there is an inverse
relationship between a mucle fibres power producing
capacities and endurance capabilities then its
pretty obvious that there is a relationship between
time and optimal training... sets and reps take
place over time (well duhhh!!!) hopefully you will
see that it is more precise to relate load and time
together as opposed to load and reps/sets....
...counting reps may not actually be the indicator
of the amount of work that you have performed...if
anything reps are simply a marker or reference
point, if we look at the equation work = force x
distance...well a rep tells you that you've
performed work...but not how much...
...for instance, on the bench you've got an
indicidual who benches 300lbs for 5 reps, the
eccentric takes 2 seconds and the conecntric takes
1, there is no pause...conversley take another
exmaple of an indivdual who performs 300lbs for 5
reps however, his eccentric takes 5 seconds with a
one second pause at the bottom...concentric takes 3
seconds....who do you think has performed more work?
however they are both moving the same amount of
weight for the same amount of reps...also who will
have the better 1 rm and chest development
(hypothetically!!!)
...its pretty simple...also, think of kinetic energy
and momentum, during a fast eccentric you are
building up kinetic energy (Kinetic energy is energy
due to motion) which have a rebounbd effect meaning
that the momentum created by the fast eccentric
translates into an easier concentric....meaning that
more weight will be moved.....I refere you to the
concept of kinetic energy again, kinetic energy
increases due to an increase in accleration ie a
faster eccentric (momentum is the product of mass
and velocity, force mathematically can be
represented as a rate of change of momentum...as
momentum decreases so does velocity)...basically
what this means is that due to the decreases in
accelertion and momentum kinetic energy decreases
which means that it is harder to move an object...(I
hate kinematics!!!!!!)
in the previous example if individual no 2 were to
perform a set of 5 reps with a 2 second eccentric
and 1 second concentric then the amount of weight
that the individual will shift will be a lot more
than 300lbs.
...say someone performs a set of 10 with a speed of
3 secs per rep then the total TUT would be 30
seconds for that set...if an individual performed a
set of 5 with a 6 second speed, the TUT would be the
same....if strength improvements are to have occured
then the amount of time is a very important
factor... an increase in strength can only be
accurate if either the weight has increased with TUT
and reps the same... or if the load remains constant
and reps and TUT increased. But, if in a set TUT
(total not per rep) was the same, as does
load...however the reps increased then it may be
that an individual has actually regressed slightly
because per rep the amount of work performed hs
decreased to perform the rep....remeber the
accomodation principle mentioned a while ago....it
states that if a stimulus was to remain contant,
after initial adaptations accor then the amount of
gain declines over time....this is an example of
such....
...so then what is the optimal TUT... generally for
optimal muscle growth, a muscle should be under
tension for between 40 and 70
(approx)seconds....however this does not have to be
on a single set....
...absolute TUT is also a factor, so then 3 x 10
with a total TUT for the each set of 40 seconds
equals 120 seconds of total TUT, however 6 x 5 with
a TUT of 20 seconds for each set equals the same
absolute TUT of 120 seconds.
...Basically, monitor time, it can be extremeley
beneficial, by implementing a few of the ideas I
have mentioned here you add to the arsenal of
variety....periodise TUT like anything else!!!
 
A few questions.

1. Training with barbells will also increase lifts with dumbbells as well, right?

2. Even though I've only started weightlifting 2 months or so ago, a big problem has been that my biceps have never gotten any stronger. Every muscle has gotten stronger significantly from the first day I hit the gym except my biceps. I was supposed to have started the 5x5 last week but wasn't able to complete it since Friday I had to travel somewhere and I spent the last week in a place with no squat rack or barbells and only dumbbells that went up to 50 pounds... Anyways, since my biceps haven't grown, should I still just keep the 3 sets of curls on Friday or should I bump it up to 6 or 9 sets of curls? More than likely, the rows are going to increase my biceps in strength anyways, right? Starting on the 25th I'll finally be able to get my first full-week in of the single-factor prog.
 
Last edited:
1. Sure, overall strength and size will increase. Granted there is some exercise specific adaptation but let's say someone benches 200x5 and works up to 300x5. His dumbell strength will increase dramatically however right off the bat. However just because the movements are slightly different the dumbell exercise will likely increase more with training so consider it 3-4 weeks before strength is really maximized in the new exercise (in other words, with an increase like that he'll be much stronger right away but over the course of a few weeks of DB training he'll continue to get stronger and stronger as the bodhy adapts to the movement and gets proficient - this is why you don't switch exercises all around).

2. Don't worry about biceps. They are a tiny insignificant muscle (at least for real world function - although obviously they are worshipped by some). Your rows will be their primarly stimulator and along with squats, presses, and deads your bis will grow. Direct work is fine but is more to maximize current state then to drive long term growth. Try 3x8-10, if you tolerate this well and feel so compelled maybe add a 2nd exercise of the same (so M = BB curls and F = whatever you want). Make sure you are okay on this program with plain vanilla first. If your biceps get overworked and it impacts your row, that's a shitty trade because your bis won't be growing regardless.
 
How will I know if I'm doing too much weight? Should the bar be moving continuously and constantly throughout each set? On benching today, the last set was incredibly hard but I managed to get all 5 reps up with my spotter motivating me to do it. However, between each rep, I had to lock out with my elbows by straightening my arms all the way out and wait a few seconds to push the next one up. The 5th rep I started failing but I kept on pushing and somehow I got it up. Anyways, is this a sign of too much weight and that I should choose a top weight that I can push continuously for all 5 reps?
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

It's never an absolute, some times you want to push with everything you have and grind it out (these tend to get you over hurdles but you can't train like this all the time). Other times you want the bar moving somewhat consistently. So anyway, after getting a grinding top set, maybe don't increase the weight the next week, maybe do. You'll have to go by feel and see but these are options.

In regards to anyone spotting you, they should not come into contact with the bar. I don't care if it's two pinkies and negative pressure, skin contact is friction and stabalizes bar path. Not sure if you know this or not but make sure your spotter doesn't touch that bar unless you need it meaning, you are absolutely going to fail. Granted you don't want him accross the room talking to some chick, he should be at the ready and a fraction off the bar once it's heavy enough to require watching - just make sure he doesn't touch the damn thing unless necessary.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Squat Theory and Execution

Written by “Arioch”



The squat should be a standard exercise in any lifters program. Whether the goal is strength, hypertrophy (increase in muscle size), increased accelerative ability, or a heightened vertical jump, the squat is the tool for the task. In addition to working the muscles of the legs, hips, lower back, abdomen, and obliques, the demands of squatting should stimulate a growth response from the body that will carry over into strength and size increases in other areas.

The basic technique of the squat consists in placing a loaded barbell across the shoulders, then bending at the hips and knees, descending into the bottom position, “the hole,” and returning to an erect position. We will examine the squat from the deck up.

Stance. This varies from individual to individual, but one thing is necessary for all who wish progress: you must keep your feet flat on the deck at all times. The center of gravity may be maintained over the center of the foot, but it is generally best to push through the heels. This will help in maintaining bar position and help eliminate a small degree of forward lean. To achieve this, some people find it necessary to curls the toes upward while squatting, forcing their heels flat. The feet should be placed at least shoulder width apart, and some individuals may best utilize a stance nearly twice shoulder width. The narrower stance tends to place more direct emphasis on the quads, and creates a longer path for the bar to travel. The wider stance (often called “sumo”) tends to be favored by many powerlifters, although some have enjoyed great success with a relatively narrow stance. The sumo stance place more emphasis on the adductors and hamstrings. As a rule of thumb, lifters with longer legs will need a wider stance than shorter individuals. However, there are exceptions. A wider stance will tend to recruit both the adductors and buttocks to a greater degree than a narrow stance. (1)

The shins should be a close to vertical as possible throughout the entire movement. This lessens the opening of the knee joint, and reduces the shearing force as well. By reducing the workload that the knee joint is required to handle, more of the work is accomplished by the larger muscles around the hip joint. For powerlifters, this decreases the distance one must travel with the bar, as the further the knee moves forward, the lower the hips must descend to break parallel.

There are several schools of thought on squat depth. Many misinformed individuals caution against squatting below parallel, stating that this is hazardous to the knees. Nothing could be further from the truth. (2) Stopping at or above parallel places direct stress on the knees, whereas a deep squat will transfer the load to the hips,(3) which are capable of handling a greater amount of force than the knees should ever be exposed to. Studies have shown that the squat produces lower peak tibeo-femoral(stress at the knee joint) compressive force than both the leg press and the leg extension.(4) For functional strength, one should descend as deeply as possible, and under control. (yes, certain individuals can squat in a ballistic manner, but they are the exception rather than the rule). The further a lifter descends, the more the hamstrings are recruited, and proper squatting displays nearly twice the hamstring involvement of the leg press or leg extension. (5,6) and as one of the functions of the hamstring is to protect the patella tendon (the primary tendon involved in knee extension) during knee extension through a concurrent firing process, the greatest degree of hamstring recruitment should provide the greatest degree of protection to the knee joint. (7) When one is a powerlifter, the top surface of the legs at the hip joint must descend to a point below the top surface of the legs at the knee joint.

Knee injuries are one of the most commonly stated problems that come from squatting, however, this is usually stated by those who do not know how to squat. A properly performed squat will appropriately load the knee joint, which improves congruity by increasing the compressive forces at the knee joint. (8,(9) which improves stability, protecting the knee against shear forces. As part of a long-term exercise program, the squat, like other exercises, will lead to increased collagen turnover and hypertrophy of ligaments. (10,11) At least one study has shown that international caliber weightlifters and powerlifters experience less clinical or symptomatic arthritis. (12) Other critics of the squat have stated that it decreases the stability of the knees, yet nothing could be further from the truth. Studies have shown that the squat will increase knee stability by reducing joint laxity, as well as decrease anterior-posterior laxity and translation. (13,14) The squat is, in fact, being used as a rehabilitation exercise for many types of knee injuries, including ACL repair. (15)

One of the most, if not the most critical factor in squatting is spinal position. It is incredibly important not to round the back. This can lead to problems with the lower back, and upper back as well. The back should be arched, and the scapulae retracted, to avoid injury. This position must be maintained throughout the entire lift, as rounding on the way up is even more common than rounding on the way down, and people who make this mistake are the ones who perpetuate the “squats are bad for your back” myth. Furthermore, spinal position is essential to maintaining a proper combined center of gravity (CCOG). The farther one leans forward or, even worse, rounds the back, the more strain the erectors are forced to bear, and the less the abdominals can contribute to the lift. To say nothing of the fact that the greater the lean, the greater the shearing force placed on the vertebrae. Proper spinal alignment will assist in ensuring that the majority of the force the spine must bear is compressive in nature, as it should be. Another reason for descending below parallel is that the sacrum undergoes a process known as nutation (it tilts forward, relative to the two ilia on either side of it). At only 90 degrees of knee flexion, the sacrum is still tilted backward, which inhibits proper firing of the erectors and gluteus maximus and minimus. Going through a full range of motion completes the rotation of the sacrum and allows maximal muscular recruitment.

“Squats are bad for your back” is yet another cry of the weak of both leg and spirit. While an improperly performed squat can cause problems, so can improperly performed barbell curl, yet many of the people who use the squat rack only to curl do not seem to have a problem strengthening their elbow flexors. While the squat can be hazardous to the back among the untrained who often incline the torso to an unsafe degree, as well as round the back, skilled athletes have been shown to minimize trunk segment torques by maintaining a more erect posture. (16) It has been positively shown that maintaining an upright torso during the squatting motion reduces both spinal compression and shear forces. (17) Several studies have shown that weightlifters experience not only less back injury and pain that many other athletes, but often even less than inactive individuals, which clearly displays that a proper weight training program, which includes squatting, is beneficial in avoiding injury. (18,19)

The placement of the bar is another very important consideration when squatting. If one places the bar high on the traps, more emphasis will be placed on the quads, and a low bar squat recruits more of the lower back and hamstrings, by virtue of back extension, simply because the lower the bar is placed, the greater the degree of forward lean. Even when high bar squatting, the bar should NEVER be placed on the neck. This is far more stress than the cervical vertebrae should be forced to bear. When a powerlifter squats with a low bar position, the bar should be placed no lower than three centimeters below the top of the anterior deltoids. For other lifters, comfort and flexibility will go a long way towards determining bar positioning. When gripping the bar, at first it is best to place your hands as close together as possible, to maintain tension in the upper back, and to avoid any chance of the bar slipping. As a general rule, the lower you place the bar, the wider your hands will have to be. Anything placed between the bar and the lifter, such as a pad or towel, decreases the force of friction and increases the chance of the bar slipping. It is to avoid injuries that this practice is banned in competition. Also, this will artificially raise the lifter’s CCOG, which makes it harder to balance under a heavy load.

Look slightly upward when squatting, to avoid rounding the upper back. The movement should be initiated from the hips, by pushing the glutes back, not down. This will assist in keeping the shins vertical. On the way down, keep the torso as close to vertical as possible, continue to push the hips back, and push the knees out to the sides, avoiding the tendency to allow them to collapse inward. The manner in which the lifter descends will greatly influence the manner in which the ascent is made. When the necessary depth is achieved, begin ascending by pushing the head back, and continue to concentrate on pushing the knees outward.

One of the most common mistakes made while squatting, or performing any exercise for that matter, is improper breathing. At first, the lifter should inhale on the way down, and exhale on the way up. Many advanced lifters will take several large breaths, hold it all in on the way down, and then exhale forcefully at their sticking point on the way up. This technique, known as the “Partial Valsalva,” requires practice like any other.

There are many other types of squats, but all of them are secondary to the squat itself, which is appropriately termed the “King of Exercises.”

The front squat is performed in a similar manner, but the bar is held in the clean position, across the anterior deltoids, not the clavicles. The hands should be slightly wider than shoulder width, and the elbows should be elevated as much as possible. The bar is maintained as high as possible by elevating the elbows. This allows the lifter to maintain a more upright posture, and increases the emphasis on the glutes, while lessening the involvement of the lower back. This exercise may allow a lifter who lacks the flexibility required to perform a full squat achieve a reasonable depth while improving flexibility. The front squat will place far more emphasis on the quadriceps muscles and less recruitment of the hamstrings takes place. 7 (20) When comparing the squat to other exercises, it is important to note that the squat causes less compressive force to the knee joint, and greater hamstring activation, than both the leg press and the leg extension. (21)

Another popular type of squatting exercise is the split squat (“lunge”). In this type of squat, the legs are placed at approximately shoulder width, but one foot is out in front of the athlete and one is placed to the rear, as if a lifter has just completed the jerk portion of the clean and jerk. The athlete descends by bending the front leg until the knee is slightly forward of the toes. The shin of the front leg should be ten degrees past perpendicular to the floor. It is important to maintain an upright posture when doing so. As when squatting, co-activation of the hamstring serves to protect the knee joint during flexion, (22) which is very important as often a greater degree of flexion will occurring when performing the split squat.

Certain misinformed and so-called “personal trainers” will have people squat in a smith machine, which is, quite simply, an idea both hideous and destructive. This is often done under the misguided “squat this way until you are strong enough to perform a regular squat” premise. Even if one overlooks the obvious fact that it is better to learn to do something right than build bad habits from the start, there are numerous other factors to be considered. The smith machine stabilizes the bar for the lifter, which does not teach the skill of balancing the bar, balance being important to any athlete, as well as the fact that free weight squatting strengthens the synergists which goes a long way to preventing injuries. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and the smith machine leaves far too many weak links. To say nothing of the fact that free weights provide a greater transfer of functional strength than machines. (23)Furthermore, the bar moves straight up and down, and very few people squat in this manner, which means that the smith machine does not fit a lifters optimal strength curve. (24) The smith machine also requires that the lifter either squats with his torso much closer to vertical than would be done with a real squat, which mechanically decreases the involvement of both the spinal erectors and the hamstrings. While this would be fine if it was done by the lifters muscular control, when the smith machine does this it is disadvantageous to the lifter by virtue of decreasing the ability of the hamstrings to protect the knee joint. Another mistake made, aside from simply using it in the first place, is allow the knees to drift forward over the toes, the chance of which is increased by the smith machine. As was previously mentioned, this greatly increases the shearing force on the knees. This from a device touted by the ignorant as “safe.”

There is a great debate about the use of belts when squatting, some sources insist that you must wear one, while others state quite the opposite. It is worth noting that there are plusses and minuses to wearing one. Using a proper belt while squatting can serve to increase intra-abdominal pressure (IAP) which will serve to stabilize the spinal column, reducing compressive forces acting upon the spine and reducing back muscle forces. (25) However, muscle activity of the trunk appears to be significantly reduced when using a weight belt, which can lead to the muscles of the trunk receiving a less than optimal stimulus when using a belt. (26) Other proponents of belt use have shown that the use of a properly designed power belt may improve a lifter's explosive power by increasing the speed of the movement without compromising the joint range of motion or overall lifting technique. (27)

There are numerous methods of utilizing the squat in any athlete’s training program. While a variety of rep and set ranges are optimal for a bodybuilder who wishes to maximize hypertrophy, an athlete’s must carefully plan a training program to meet their goals. Even though squatting will lead to gains in size, strength, and jumping ability, the more specific the program, the greater the results. When an untrained subject begins lifting, numerous programs produce gains in practically all areas, but this changes rapidly, with limited progress being made unless something is altered. (28)

To utilize the squat to gain in size is both simple and complex. Individuals will respond to a variety of rep ranges in different manners based on fiber type, training history, biomechanics, injuries, etc. Bodybuilders, who are concerned exclusively with gains in size, should squat heavy, as fast-twitch muscle fibers have the greatest potential for hypertrophy. However, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (growth of muscle tissue outside of the sarcoplasmic reticulum) will contribute to overall muscular size, and is obtained by training with lighter weights and higher reps. Rate of training is once again an individual decision, but as a general rule, the greater the volume of training, including time under tension (TUT) per workout, the longer one must wait before recovery is optimized, allowing supercompensation to take place. A word of caution about performing higher repetitions while squatting: As the set progresses, the degree of forward lean increases. While this is desirable to increase the stress on the hamstrings, it takes the emphasis off of the quadriceps, as well as increases the risk of injury. (29)

An athlete wishing to improve his vertical jump should not only squat, but perform a variety of assistance work specific to both improving squatting strength as well as specifically improving jumping skill. As jumping requires a great expenditure of force in a minimal amount of time, exercises such as squatting should be performed to increase muscle power, as muscle cross-sectional area significantly correlates to force output. (30) When wishing to increase one’s power through squatting to assist in the vertical jump, one must train to generate a high degree of force.(31 ,32 ,33 ) This is done by squatting a dynamic manner, where one is attempting to generate a large amount of power while using submaximal weights. This has been shown to provide a great training stimulus for improving the vertical jump. (34) A program consisting of a session once-weekly heavy squatting, ballistic lifting, and plyometric training, with each being performed during a separate workout, should provide maximal stimulus while allowing maximal recovery and supercompensation.(35,36)

When training to improve one’s overall squatting ability, expressed as a one-repetition maximum (1rm), once again a variety of programs may be utilized. The most common is a simple periodized program where, over time, the training weight is increased and the number of repetitions decreases. This sort of program is utilized by both Weightlifters and Powerlifters alike. A sample periodized program is included in Appendix B. Some sources state that you must train to failure, while others state that one should train until form begins to break down, leaving a small reserve of strength but reducing the risk of injury. It should be stated that there is no evidence that indicates training to failure produces a greater training stimulus than traditional volume training.

Far and away the most complicated, and controversial training program is the conjugate training method. Using this method one trains to develop maximal acceleration in the squat during one workout, and in another workout (72 hours later) generate maximum intensity in a similar exercise to the squat. This is based on an incredibly lengthy study by A. S. Prelepin, one of the greatest sports physiologists of the former Soviet Union. (37) This method also uses the practice of compensatory acceleration, where an athlete attempts to generate as much force as possible, by not only generating maximal acceleration, but by continuing to attempt to increase acceleration as the lifter’s leverage improves. The addition of chains or bands can increase the workload as well as force the athlete to work harder to accelerate the bar. Utilizing this system, the squat is trained for low repetitions (2) but a high number of sets (10 – 12), with training intensities being 50 – 70% of the athlete’s 1rm. Rest periods are short (45 – 75 seconds), and the squats are often performed on a box, which breaks up the eccentric-concentric chain, and inhibits the stretch reflex, forcing the athlete to generate the initial acceleration out of the bottom of the lift without the benefit of the elasticity of the muscle structure.

During the second workout, an exercise which taxes the muscles recruited when squatting, but not an actual squat, is performed for very low repetitions (1-3, usually one). The goal on this day is to improve neuromuscular coordination by increased motor unit recruiting, increased rate coding, and motor unit synchronization. This allows the athlete to continue to generate maximal intensity week after week, but by rotating exercises regularly optimal performance is maintained. For one microcycle, a squat-like exercise is performed, such as a box squat, rack squat, or front squat is performed, then the athlete switches to a different type of exercise, such as good mornings, performed standing, seated, from the rack, etc. for another microcycle, then switches exercises again, often to a pulling type exercise such as deadlifts with a variety of stances, from pins, from a platform, or any number of other variations. Once again, chains or bands may be added to increase the workload. A sample training program is included in Appendix B, and a variety of maximal effort exercises can be found in Appendix C.

Assistance work for the squat is of the utmost importance. The primary muscles which contribute to the squat, in no particular order, are the quadriceps, hamstrings, hip flexors/extensors, abdominals, and spinal erectors. When an athlete fails to rise from the bottom of a squat, it is important to note that not all of the muscles are failing simultaneously. Rather, a specific muscle will fail, and the key to progress is identifying the weakness, then strengthening it. A partial list of assistance exercises is provided in Appendix D. While it is impossible to simply state that if x happens when squatting, it is muscle y that is causing the problem, some general guidelines follow. If a lifter fails to rise from the bottom of a squat, it generally indicates either a weakness in the hip flexors and extensors, or a lack of acceleration due to inhibition of the golgi tendon organ (no stretch reflex – train with lighter weight and learn to accelerate if this is the case). If an athlete has a tendency to lean forward and dump the bar overhead, it generally indicates either weak hamstrings or erectors. If an athlete has trouble stabilizing the bar, or maintaining an upright posture, it is often due to a weakness in the abs.

The above factors assume that proper technique is being maintained. If this is not the case, no amount of specific work will overcome this problem. Drop the weight and concentrate on improving skill, which is far more important than training the ego, and less likely to lead to injury.

Safety is the key issue when squatting, or performing any lift. With a few simple precautions, practically anyone may learn to squat, and do so quite effectively. The rewards are well worth the effort. Squat heavy, squat often, and above all, squat safely.

1 Stance width and bar load effects on leg muscle activity during the parallel squat. McCaw ST; Melrose DR Med Sci Sports Exerc, 31(3):428-36 1999 Mar

2 Ariel, B.G., 1974. Biomechanical analysis of the knee joint during deep knee bends with a heavy load. Biomechanics. IV(1):44-52.

3 High- and low-bar squatting techniques during weight-training. Wretenberg P; Feng Y; Arborelius UP, Med Sci Sports Exerc, 28(2):218-24 1996 Feb

4 An analytical model of the knee for estimation of internal forces during exercise. Zheng N; Fleisig GS; Escamilla RF; Barrentine SW, J Biomech, 31(10):963-7 1998 Oct

5 Biomechanics of the knee during closed kinetic chain and open kinetic chain exercises. Escamilla RF; Fleisig GS; Zheng N; Barrentine SW; Wilk KE; Andrews JR Med Sci Sports Exerc, 30(4):556-69 1998 Apr

6 A comparison of tibiofemoral joint forces and electromyographic activity during open and closed kinetic chain exercises. Wilk KE; Escamilla RF; Fleisig GS; Barrentine SW; Andrews JR; Boyd ML Am J Sports Med, 24(4):518-27 1996 Jul-Aug

7 Chandler TJ and Stone MH. (1991) The squat exercise in athletic conditioning: a review of the literature. NSCA Journal. 13(5): 58-60.
8 Hsieh, H. and P.S. Walker. 1976. Stabilizing mechanisms of the loaded and unloaded knee joint. Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery. 58A(1):87-93.

9 Uhl, T.L. and P.V. Loubert. 1990. Axial compression effect on anterior displacement of the in vivo tibeofemoral joint. Master’s thesis, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI.

10 Shankman, G. 1989. Training guidelines for strengthening the injured knee: basic concepts for the strength coach. NSCA Journal. 11(4):32-42.

11 Tipton, C.M., Matthes, R.D., Maynard, J.A. and Carey, R.A. 1975. The influence of physical activity on ligaments and tendons. Medicine and Science in Sports. 7(3):165-175.

12 Herrick, R.T., Stone, M.H. and Herrick, S. 1983. Injuries in strength-power activities. Powerlifting USA. 7(5):7-9.

13 Panariello, R.A., Backus, S.I., and Parker, J.W. 1994. The effect of the squat exercise on anterior-posterior knee translation in professional football players. American Journal of Sports Medicine. 22(6):768-773.

14 Steiner, M.E., Grana, W.A., Chillag, K., and Schelberg-Karnes, E. The effect of exercise on anterior-posterior knee laxity. 1986. American Journal of Sports Medicine. 14(1): 24-29.

15 Palmitier, R.A., Kai-Nan, A., Scott, S.G., and Chao, E.Y.S. 1991. Kinetic chain exercise in knee rehabilitation. Sports Medicine. 11(6):402-413.

16 McLaughlin, T.M., Lardner, T.J., and Dillman, C.J. 1978. Kinetics of the parallel squat. Research Quarterly. 49(2):175-189.

17 Garhammer, J. 1989. Weight lifting and Weight Training. In: Biomechanics of Sport, chapter 5, C.L. Vaughan, ed. Boca Raton FL: CRC Press. Pp. 169-211.

18 Granhed, H. and Morelli, B. 1988. Low back pain among retired wrestlers and heavyweight lifters. American journal of Sports Medicine. 16(5):530-533.

19 Kulund, D.N., Dewey, J.B., Brubaker, C.E., and Roberts, J.R. 1978. Olympic Weightlifting Injuries. Physician and Sports Medicine. 6(11):111-119.

20 A preliminary comparison of front and back squat exercises [see comments] Russell PJ; Phillips SJ Res Q Exerc Sport, 60(3):201-8 1989 Sep

21 J Biomech 1998 Oct;31(10):963-7 An analytical model of the knee for estimation of internal forces during exercise. Zheng N, Fleisig GS, Escamilla RF, Barrentine SW

22 Biomed Sci Instrum 1997;33:360-5 Co-activation of the hamstrings and quadriceps during the lunge exercise. Hefzy MS, al Khazim M, Harrison L

23 Stone, M. H., Johnson, R. L., & Carter, D. R. (1979). A short-term comparison of two different methods of resistance training on leg strength and power. Athletic Training, 14, 158-160.

24 Phys Ther 1995 Feb;75(2):133-44 Neuromuscular coordination of squat lifting, II: Individual differences. Scholz JP, McMillan AG

25 Lander, J.E., Hundley, J.R., and Simonton, R.L. The effectiveness of weight-belts during multiple repetitions of the squat exercise. Med Sci Sports Exercise. 24(5):603-609. 1992.

26 The Effectiveness of Weight-belts During the Squat Exercise. Lander, JE, Simonton, RL, and Giacobbe JKF. Med Sci Sports Exercise. 22(1):117-126. 1990.

27 Attila J. Zink, William C. Whiting, William J. Vincent, and McLaine, A.J. The effects of a weight belt on trunk and leg muscle activity and joint kinematics during the squat exercise. 1999. Journal of Str Con Res.

28 Influence of two different modes of resistance training in female subjects. Hisaeda H; Miyagawa K; Kuno S; Fukunaga T; Muraoka I

29 Lander, JE, Hundley, JR, and Simonton, Rl. The Effectiveness of weight-belts during multiple repetitions of the squat exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 24(5): 603-609. 1992.

30 Force-velocity relationships and fatigability of strength and endurance-trained subjects. Kanehisa H; Ikegawa S; Fukunaga T
Choi, J. Y., Takahashi, H., Itai, Y., & Takamatsu, K. (1997).

31 Comparison of training effects between power-up type and bulk-up type in strength training. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 29(5), Supplement abstract 54.

32 Hellebrandt, F. A. (1972). The physiology of motor learning. In R. N. Singer (Ed.), Readings in motor learning (pp. 397-409). Philadelphia, PA: Lea & Febiger.

33 Christina, R. W. (1996). Major determinants of the transfer of training: Implications for enhancing sport performance. In K-W. Kim (Ed.), Human performance determinants in sport (pp. 25-52). Seoul, Korea: Korean Society of Sport Psychology.

34 Wilson, G. J., Newton, R. U., Murphy, A. J., & Humphries, B. J. (1994). The optimal training load for the development of dynamic athletic performance. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 25(11), 1279-1286.

35 Morrissey, M. C., Harman, E. A., & Johnson, M. J. (1995). Resistance training modes: Specificity and effectiveness. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 27, 648-660.

36 Kraemer, W. J., & Newton, R. U. (1994). Training for improved vertical jump. Sports Science Exchange, 7(6), 1-12.

37 A. S Prelepin. 1969. Preparation of elite Soviet Athletes. Technical Report #1012-62, Moscow: All-Union Research Institute of Physical Culture.





Appendix A: Anatomical References



Trapezius (i): The lower half of the trapezius (“traps 3” and “traps 4”) assist in retracting the scapulae and maintaining proper alignment of the cervical and thoracic vertebrae. The Trapezius also assist in maintaining the head in an erect position. This serves to secure the bar in a stable position on the upper back, as well as maintain a proper arch in the upper back (thoracic vertebrae).

The Levator Anguli Scapulae, Rhomboideus major(b), and Rhomboideus minor all function to retract the scapulae, maintain alignment of the cervical vertebrae, retract the scapulae, and maintain proper position of the shoulder girdle while support a fixed load (barbell). Levator not shown, inferior to the scapulae(g). These muscles are of the utmost importance in maintaining the bar position while squatting.

Latissimus dorsai: These wide muscles which cover the lumbar and lower half of the dorsal regions will contract isometrically to avoid compression of the shoulder girdle. They assist in maintaining rigidity in the spinal column, which allow proper arching (lordosis) of the spine while squatting.

The Erector spinae(1), Sacro-lumbalis(b), Longissimus Dorsi(2_, and Spinalis Dorsi(3) all serve to maintain the spine in the erect posture. They also serve to bend the trunk backward when it is required to counterbalance a weight such as when squatting. Numerous smaller muscles function to stabilize the spinal column during back extension, by contracting to maintain vertebral alignment. It should be noted that during a heavy squat, the erectors and their synergists will be quite heavily taxed. Due to the need for the athlete-barbell system to maintain a proper combined center of gravity (CCOG), there will be a certain amount of forward inclination of the trunk taking place, to maintain barbell position over the athlete’s base of support (the foot).

The abdominals: The Rectus(f), Obliques internus(c ), Obliques externus(b), Transersalis(d), Pyramidalis, and Quadratus lumborum all contract isometrically to support the trunk under a compressive load. Pyramidalis (not shown) is a small triangular muscle sheathed within the base of the rectus.

Serratus posticus superior and inferior: Both assist in maintaining rigidity in the torso by contracting isometrically to support the chest cavity as well as providing support for the lumbar vertebrae. Figure Four: Serratus superior (g). Not shown, inferior, below superior.

The intercostals: External intercostals(1), Internal intercostals, Infracostals, Triangularis sterni, and Leytores costarum all contract isometrically to stabilize the ribcage under a compressive load. Only externals are indicated. Other muscles in this group are inferior to the Externals.

The Glutei function to adduct the thigh. The Gluteus maximus(c ) and medius(2) rotate the thigh outward, and the minimus(1) rotates it inward. The Gluteus maximus extends the femur and brings the bent thigh into a line with the body. The Gluteus medius and minimus flex the thigh. The Glutei also function to achieve an erect posture after squatting.

The hamstrings, which consist of the Biceps Femoris(g), Semimembranosus(i), and Semitendinosis(h), serve to flex the knee. They also function to extend the torso, such as when rising from a squatting position. The Semitendinosus and, to a lesser extent, the Semimembranosus, assist in rotating the thigh inward.

The Illiacus(o), Psoas magnus(c), and Psoas parvus(q) (often called the illio-psoas muscle group), acting from above, flex the thigh upon the pelvis, and at the same time rotate the femur outward. Acting from below, the femur being fixed, the muscles of both sides bend the lumbar portion of the spine and pelvis upon the femur. They also serve to maintain the erect position by supporting the spine and pelvis upon the femur.


The Quadriceps function to extend the knee joint, while the Sartorius flexes the leg upon the thigh and the thigh upon the pelvis. Rectus (1), Vastus Externus (2), Vastus Internus (“medialis")(3), Sartorius (c ). When the knee is bent the Sartorious assists the Semitendinosis in rotating the tibia inward. The Rectus assists the Psoas and Iliacus in supporting the pelvis upon the trunk upon the femur.


The Pectineus(f), the Adductor Brevis (g), the Adductor Longus (h), and the Adductor Magnus (not shown, inferior to the other adductors) powerfully adduct (move inward) the thigh. The Pectineus and Adductor Brevis and Longus assist the Psoas and Illiacus in flexing the thigh upon the pelvis. The Gracilis (I) assists the Sartorius in flexing the leg and rotating it inward, it is also an adductor of the thigh.



Appendix B: Sample Training Programs

Basic Periodized Program:
Week One: Squat 50% 1rm, three sets, 10 reps.
Week Two: Squat 55% 1rm, three sets, 10 reps.
Week Three: Squat 60% 1rm, three sets, 8 reps.
Week Four: Squat 65% 1 rm, three sets, 8 reps.
Week Five: Squat 70% 1 rm, three sets, 8 reps.
Week Six: Squat 75% 1 rm, three sets, 5 reps.
Week Seven: Squat 80% 1rm, three sets, 5 reps.
Week Eight: Squat 85% 1rm, three sets, 3 reps.
Week Nine: Squat 90% 1rm, three sets, 3 reps.
Week Ten: Squat 95% 1 rm, three sets, 2 reps.
Week Eleven: Squat 100% 1rm, three sets, 1 rep.
Week Twelve: Squat 105% of previous 1 repetition maximum for one repetition.

Basic Conjugate Training Program:
Each workout is performed once a week for a three week microcycle.
Day One: Maximal Acceleration:
Box squat: 10 sets, 2 reps, 50% 1rm.
Box squat: 2 sets, 2 reps, 60% 1rm.
Arched Back Good Mornings: 3 sets, 5 reps.
Reverse Hyper Extensions: 3 sets, 8 reps.
Russian Twist: 3 sets, 10 reps.
Seated Calf Raise: 3 sets, 15 reps.

Day Two: Maximal Effort, performed 72 hours later:
Front Squat from low box: 1rm.
Glute-Ham Raise: 3 sets, 5 reps.
Reverse Hyper Extensions: 3 sets, 10 reps.
Weighted Sit Ups: 3 sets, 8 reps.
Calf Raise: 3 sets: 10 reps.

Repeat for three weeks (total) and then switch to:
Day One:
Box Squat: 10 sets, 2 reps, 55% 1rm.
Box Squat: 2 sets, 2 reps, 65% of 1rm.
Pull Throughs: 3 sets, 12 reps.
Reverse Hyper Extensions: 3 sets, 6 reps.
Hanging Leg Raise: 4 sets, 12 reps.
Donkey Calf Raise: 3 sets, 8 reps.

Day Two:
Sumo Deadlift with plates 6” off floor (lower by 2” each week for the next two weeks): 1rm
Split Squat: 3 sets, 5 reps.
Reverse Hyper Extensions: 3 sets, 10 reps.
Weighted Side Bend: 3 sets, 10 reps.
Calf Press: 3 sets, 10 reps.

After three weeks, again rotate exercises.

Appendix C: Partial List of Maximal Effort Exercises

Squatting Exercises:
Low Box Squat
High Box Squat
(either lift may be performed with one of the following:
Buffalo Bar
Manta Ray
Cambered Squat Bar)
Saftey Squat Bar)
Chains or bands may be added.
Low Box Front Squat (modified as above)
Good Morning Squat
Overhead Squat(may be performed off a box, with a variety of stances.
Zercher Squat

Pulling Exercises:
Conventional Deadlift
Sumo Deadlift
(either lift may be performed from a variety of pin heights in the power rack)
Deadlift from platform
Zercher Deadlift
Trap Bar Deadlift
Clean Pulls
Snatch Pulls
Snatch Grip Deadlift (may be done from various heights)

Good Mornings:
Arched Back
Round Back (Only for advanced lifters. If you are not sure, you are not advanced.)
Seated
Good mornings on floor with legs outstretched
(all may be modified as per the squat)
Good mornings can also be performed to various pin heights in the power rack.





Appendix D: Partial List of Assistance Exercises


Exercises for the lower back and hamstrings:
Good Mornings(see Appendix C)
Glute Ham Raise
High Repetition Deadlifts (done with glutes pushed to the rear, only lowered to just below knee level)
Reverse Hyper Extensions
Pull Throughs

Exercises for the hamstrings:
Manual Hamstring Curl
Leg Curls (this is the least effective of the entire list)

Exercises for the Hip Flexors:
Kneeling Squats
Ultra-Wide Sumo Deadlifts
Overhead Squats done to a low box with a sumo stance
Spread Eagle Sit Ups
Heavy Step Ups

Exercises for the Abdominals:
Weighted Sit Ups
Medicine Ball Throws on decline board
Standing Ab Pulldowns
Ab Bench
Hanging Leg Raise

Exercises for the Obliques:
Russian Twist
Weighted Side Bends
Atlas Twist
Weighted Sit Ups on decline board with twist

Exercises for the Quads:
Belt Squats
Split Squats
Front Squats



Bibliography:

Supertraining: Siff and Verkoshansky, 1999.

Physiology of Sport and Exercise, Wilmore and Costill, 1994. Human Kinetics.

Science and Practice of Strength Training, V. M. Zatsiorsky, 1995. Human Kinetics.

The Weightlifting Encyclopedia, A. Drechsler, 1998. A is A publications.

Gray’s Anatomy, H. Gray, 1998. House of Collectables.

The Training of the Weightlifter, R. A. Roman, 1988. Sportivny Press.

A System of Multi-Year Training in Weightlifting. A. S. Medvedyev, 1989. Sportivny Press.

Power: A Scientific Approach. F. C. Hatfield, 1989. Contemporary books.

Squatting, Westside Style, Dave Tate, 2000. Elite Fitness Systems.

Biomechanics of Sport. J. Garhammer, 1989. CRC Press.

Designing Resistance Training Programs. S. J. Fleck and W. J. Kraemer, 1987. Human Kinetics.

Weight Training: A Scientific Approach. M. H. Stone and H. S. O’Bryant, 1987. Bellwether Press.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

The Bench Press

Written by “Arioch”



For more than three decades, the lift commonly viewed as the test of strength has been the bench press. From its inception in competition, it has been the most popular lift in single lift competition, and often, when someone who has no idea what powerlifting or Olympic lifting is all about, will pose the question “How much do you bench?” to anyone who lifts. It is the second lift in a powerlifting competition, and even athletes who are strong on the other two lifts need to develop proficiency in the bench press to achieve an exceptional total. While this lift is practiced by nearly everyone, even those who have no idea what a snatch, clean and jerk or squat is, this document is primarily written for powerlifters or those who wish to develop a maximal bench with minimal risk of injury.

The bench press is executed while lying flat on the back, the only contested lift where this occurs. The agonists (prime movers) in the bench are the triceps, deltoids, pectoralis major and minor, and the latissimus dorsai. Numerous smaller muscles are used to stabilize the body while lifting, but these are the primary focus. Performed properly, the bench can produce incredible muscular hypertrophy of the pressing muscles, although specific assistance work will still need to be performed to achieve maximal poundages.

The set up for the bench consists of lying flat on the bench, with the head, shoulders, and hips on the bench, and the feet flat on the floor. While some federations may allow variations of this, as a general rule it is good to practice this set up. Certain lifters may not be able to reach the floor, and may use plates or blocks to allow the athlete to achieve a respectable amount of leg drive. One of the most overlooked aspects of the bench is the amount of power that can be transferred from the legs to the torso, but this is only possible if the hips are driven strongly into the bench, and the abdominals and lower back are used to keep the torso stable. This is made easier for the athlete by arching, where the lower back is extended. This also serves to allow the lats to be recruited more efficiently by the athlete. The scapulae should be retracted to their fullest extent. This can not only shorten the bench stroke as well, but decrease the angle of rotation of the shoulder joint, limiting opening of the acromial process.

The grip will influence numerous factors; bar path, muscle recruitment and activation, bar placement, and risk of injury. As a general rule, most powerlifters will use a wide grip, shortening the distance the bar must travel and reducing the necessary work to lockout the weight.(10, 36) A narrow grip enables lifters to generate more force initially, but hinders force production at lockout. A wider grip has been shown to limit initial force production.(31) It is also worth noting that a wider grip generally allows far less horizontal bar displacement than a closer grip. Contrary to popular belief, a wider grip does not stress the pectorals more than a closer grip, although the triceps are recruited to a much greater degree with a narrower grip due to the greater vertical displacement of the bar.(10) While there is no greater recruitment of the pectorals secondary to a wider grip, the muscles will be subject to a greater stretch, which can result in increased force generation.(19) It goes without saying that the thumbs should be wrapped firmly around the bar, which will not only help ensure the safety of the lifter, but will make it easier to keep the wrists straight. Keeping the wrists straight allows the bar to be supported over the radius and ulna, instead of being held in position by the much smaller and weaker tendons of the wrist.

Unracking the bar is a part of the set up, and can result in a poor lift if it is not given the attention it deserves. Ideally, the bar should be taken out of the rack by the lifter, allowing the athlete to tighten the lats as the bar moves into position. However, since it is not an ideal world, a spotter is often used. If the is the case, the spotter should provide no more assistance than absolutely necessary, and a poor lift off can be worse than no help at all, especially in the case of smaller lifters, who can be pulled not only out of position, but clear of the bench by an overly enthusiastic ‘assistant’. When the bar is unracked, it should be taken at full extension, both because the athlete must demonstrate control of the bar for a successful lift in competition, but to ensure that the muscles are tight and the set up is correct. A single second of adjustment can avoid what seems like an eternal struggle to press a weight that is out of position.

Elbow position on both the descent and ascent will determine many things, including risk of injury to the shoulders, activation of the lats and triceps, as well as bar position. This is one of the most ignored factors when benching. It will be discussed in more detail during both the raising and lowering phases, but one thing will be mentioned first: do not flare the elbows out to the side “to place more emphasis on the chest,” as bodybuilding lore often states. This will result in a severe amount of strain at the shoulder joints, as it opens the acromial process to an extreme degree.

The descending phase is critical, and will directly determine the ability of the athlete to press the weight. When the bar is lowered, it should be brought low on the torso, to the apex of the arch. This serves to decrease the distance that the bar is pressed, reducing the work done by the athlete during both the eccentric and concentric phases. To enable the bar to be lowered properly, the elbows should move toward the lifter as the bar comes down. This should be done with a feeling of ‘rowing the bar down’ with the lats, but achieving the feel of this can take time. Tension should be maintained throughout the body as this is occurring, to preserve the potential energy of the stretch reflex.(7)

The pause is required in competition, and while this is one of the many things that separates a competition bench from a gym lift, it is often one of the most important. The ability to preserve a stretch reflex is crucial to any athlete who needs to hit a big number in competition. When the bar is paused, the most important thing to do is not relax, tension must be maintained throughout the entire body. The stretch reflex can be maintained for up to two seconds in a trained athlete, although a novice will struggle to achieve 25% of this result.(7)

The concentric portion of the lift is the most difficult, and can present a variety of problems to the athlete. One fact that should be noted is that, once the bar is paused, the lifter should not allow the bar to sink further, using the ribcage or stomach to propel the bar upward. This is heaving, and is cause for a lift to be turned down. As the bar begins to ascend, it should be driven upward with as much force as possible, both to take advantage of the myotactic response, as well as to push through any possible sticking point.(13, 30) The elbows should be maintained as close to the body as possible until the sticking point is reached, at which point they should flare outward, reducing the movement arm about the elbow and improving the leverage of the triceps.

The bar should be driven upward in as straight a line as possible. Quite simply, this requires the least amount of work on the part of the athlete. Some lifters are taught to push the bar back (‘back to the rack’) and this is quite incorrect, even though several good benchers do so. Benching in this manner increases the amount of work that the lifter must perform, and decreases the involvement of the lats. Some coaches and athletes are under the impression that this will more fully utilize the musculature of the upper back, but this is not the case. It would be if the athlete were vertical instead of horizontal, however, as the bar is simply drifting over the face, the athlete is in no way utilizing muscular force to pull it there.

Common errors that occur when benching are discussed briefly. They all have several things in common. First, they all indicate that the lifter is not strong enough to move the weight properly, and should decrease the poundage until their ability grows to match his desires. Second, they all indicate that the lifter needs further education in the realm of strength training. Third, they all have the potential to cause injury.

Excessive arching is common among gym lifters, who should know to keep their hips on the bench. However, when the ego takes over, the body often loses control. The lifter will push the hips up off of the bench, in order to improve his leverage. While this can help someone lock out a lift they would otherwise have missed, it can caused a great deal of strain on the vertebrae of the lower back and the neck. The lumbar vertebrae will be compressed unevenly, increasing the shearing force the spine is subject to, and putting the lifter at risk for serious injury. An even more extreme form of arching can have the lifter actually compressing the vertebrae of the neck.

Bouncing the bar off of the chest is another common technique exhibited by those who seek to impress their friends with the fact that they have survived as long as they have. This is, quite simply, an easy way to damage the ribs, sternum, or even completely fracture the xiphoid process. In addition to the potential for injury, people who utilize this ‘technique’ will begin to develop a weakness in the bottom of the bench press, necessitating further bouncing of the bar, which is quite a viscous circle.

One last error will be discussed, and that is the improper use of spotters. While a spotter is a good idea when benching, using one (or more) to perform the lift instead of pressing the weight to full extension is not a habit that the serious strength athlete should develop. While there may be a place for heavy negatives in the recreational athletes program, there is a disadvantage to performing them as well, in that they cause the greatest degree of microtrauma to muscle fibers than any other standard type of training. While a muscle may be able to handle approximately 120% of its maximal concentric load during the eccentric phase, this does not in any way serve to optimize the CNS, and it is, in fact, more fatiguing to the athlete than standard training, increasing the recovery time and lessening the amount of training time. (29, 41, 60, 61)

There is at least one school of thought which would have athletes believe that there is little benefit to performing a regular bench press, and that machine type bench exercises are just as good, if not superior to the bench press. Unfortunately, research does not support this. Studies have shown that not only is there greater muscle activity during the bench press (20, 31, 33) but that there is also greater recruitment of the stabilizing muscles to support the musculature used in the bench press (16, 17, 45) This is particularly true of the deltoid, and while all muscles of the deltoid are active to one degree or another during any movement of the upper arm, with one head being the agonist and the others synergists,(40) this difference is highly significant with respect to the bench press.(33)

Lifters, whether powerlifters, bodybuilders, or recreational lifters often argue about which muscles are most involved in the bench. Unfortunately, there is no clear cut answer. The following information is compiled from electromyographical analysis (EMG) performed within several studies, and in every case the EMG signal was quantified by calculating the integral of the EMG pattern (IMEG) as the area under the linear envelope.(60) The data were analyzed through a repeated measures ANOVA (analysis of normal variance) using type III sums of squares where possible.(1) This method of review was also used when assessing % maximal voluntary isometric contraction (MVIC). All anatomical references were reviewed with respect to electrode placement with respect to both anatomical accuracy as well as sensitivity as diagnostic tools (9, 12, 19, 24, 25, 37, 39, 42, 43, 61)

What the above paragraph indicates is that, when all factors are considered and standardized, including individual variations such as biomechanics, fiber type, rate of force development, etc. the following can be surmised (all data based on averages of 60% and 80% 1rm):
% MVIC of agonists:
Triceps: 110%
Anterior deltoid: 95%
Pectoralis Major: 75%

The most active portion of the triceps was the long head, which is even more active with a narrow grip. This is true even when overhead pressing, assuming the elbows are fully adducted. This is secondary to the greater degree of elbow flexion, in which the triceps brachii functions as the agonist.

The anterior deltoid will be more active the more the trunk is inclined, as well as being more active with a wider grip. This is due to the fact that the anterior deltoid is not merely an flexor of the humerus, but also an adductor of it. Wide hand spacing during a vertical press will cause mainly glenohumeral abduction, whereas with a narrow grip the primary movement is flexion.

The sternocostal head of the pectoralis major is little affected by hand spacing, but is directly affected by trunk inclination. The greater the inclination, the less the activation. There is also a slightly greater activation of this muscle with a wider hand spacing, due, in general, to the fact that with a wider grip, the elbows tend to move away from the midline of the body, which increases the degree of horizontal flexion of the humerus.

The clavicular head of the pectoralis major is affected by both hand spacing as well as trunk inclination. The narrower the grip, the greater the activation, as well as the greater the inclination, the greater the activation. There are several factors for this, including the fact that vertical bar displacement is greatest during an incline press. This is also due to the fact that the clavicular head is involved in horizontal flexion and adduction in addition to pure flexion. The clavicular head will maintain its function as a flexor of the glenohumeral joint until humerus moves above the horizontal position. This is why it is rather inactive when the torso is vertical, as little flexion is occurring.

The latissimus dorsai is highly active at the initiation of the concentric phase, with greater activity the closer the elbows are maintained to the torso, due to the degree of adduction required. The latissimus dorsai is an extensor at the glenohumeral joint as well as being a humeral adductor, which explains its activity during every type of pressing.

Numerous training programs have been devised, and will not be discussed here in great detail. A modest discussion of the various methods of training will be mentioned.

Maximal effort method: The maximal effort method consists of lifting a maximal (1RM) load, with the goal being improvement of both intramuscular and intermuscular coordination. The CNS system is maximally stimulated, with CNS inhibition being reduced, and the greatest number of motor units are recruited using this method.(61) The primary disadvantages of this method are that it induces minimal hypertrophy, as only one or two reps are performed, as well as the fact that the CNS will attenuate rather quickly, and so exercises must be rotated regularly. If more than one set (repetition) is to be performed, then a lengthy rest period may be required. (3, 4, 21, 53)

Repeated effort method: This method utilizes submaximal effort with higher reps to stimulate maximal hypertrophy.(61) The basis for this method is that the larger the muscles peak cross sectional area (PCSA), the greater the strength of the individual muscle. The disadvantages to this method are that the CNS is not highly stimulated with this method, as well as the fact that as the muscles become fatigued, form begins to suffer, decreasing proper motor unit recruitment patterns. As multiple sets are normally performed using this method, rest periods should be long enough to allow the athlete sufficient recovery time, but, over time, the athlete should strive to reduce the rest time in-between sets (3, 4, 21, 46, 53)

Dynamic effort method: This method uses sub-maximal (light) weights to increase rate of force development.(61) This method will also potentate the myotactile response, as the weight is moved quickly. Repetitions are low, to ensure proper technique, and sets are high, to allow for greater motor unit recruitment. Rest periods should be kept low, as the various systems, such as the CNS, musculoskeletal, etc. are not heavily taxed during a single set. (4, 21, 41, 53)

A brief discussion of assistance work and its effects, as well as specific bench techniques, is quite appropriate. Assistance work is of critical importance, a point which has often been illustrated. When an athlete cannot progress in a certain lift, it is not the lift itself which is weak, but there is a weak link (muscle group) in the kinematic chain. The key to successful assistance work is determining which muscle group is the weakest and determining the appropriate technique to strengthen it.

General guidelines are hard to present, but, nevertheless, an attempt will be made.

Weak at the initiation of the concentric phase (out of the bottom): Strengthen lats, pecs, as well as learn how to recruit lats properly.

Weak at the midpoint: Strengthen the shoulders, and work on specific exercises to train the sticking point.

Weak at lockout: Triceps, triceps, and triceps. The triceps are active throughout the entire lift, but most active the closer the bar moves toward lockout. Specific exercises to strengthen the lockout can be used as well.

Bench assistance work will be divided into several basic categories, with a general discussion about the effects of each category of exercises, with extra discussion for specific functions of individual exercises if necessary. The categories include flat benching exercises, partial pressing exercises, bench-like exercises, assistance work for the triceps, assistance work for the deltoids, assistance work for the traps, assistance work for the lats, assistance work for the biceps and forearms. The use of chains and bands will not be discussed, but will be the focus of another discussion.

Flat bench: This lift needs to be examined in and of itself as it can be used with a variety of methods, techniques, and set and rep schemes, all of which can have an effect on bench performance. When trained dynamically, the athlete should use a weight that allows the production of maximal force, which will generally occur somewhere between 50 – 60% of the 1RM. This allows for greater force development, allows the lift to be trained again more frequently as it is performed in a very rapid manner, lessening the eccentric stress and resultant fatigue, as well as maximizing the utilization of the stretch reflex.

The paused version of the bench press can be used to develop starting strength. Many athletes will train with an extended pause (two or three seconds) to help them further develop the necessary explosion off the chest, as well as the ability to maintain tension in the paused position.

Heavy negatives: Not advised for the strength athlete. By the time an athlete is advanced enough to perform them, the amount of recovery time necessary will reduce practical training time. This exercise may be useful for novice athletes to become accustomed to the feel of heavier weights through synaptic facilitation.

Illegal wide grip bench. Very useful for strengthening the bottom portion of the bench which will occur secondary to hypertrophy, as these are generally performed in the six rep range. The only caution is that this exercise can severely open the acromial process, and should be used sparingly, and only by athletes with healthy shoulders.

Pressing from the pins at chest level can work the start of the bench as well, but it is difficult to recruitment maximal power from the torso, as there is no stretch reflex, and no resulting tension. This can place the athlete at greater risk for injury as well.

Benching with a cambered bar or a buffalo bar can also work the start of the bench, but once again care must be taken to avoid injury to the shoulders as the acromial process is quite open using these types of bars.

Close grip bench presses have been a not only a standard method for powerlifters to strengthen the triceps and thus the lockout of the bench, but have even been used by weightlifters as an assistance exercise to increase their ability to execute the press decades before powerlifting was a recognized sport, including the great Tommy Kono. (for the trivia-minded, Kono cleaned and pressed 350 pounds at a bodyweight of 182.5 pounds)

Reverse grip bench pressing can provide quite a bit of stimulation for the triceps. This method is little used, but could be far more prevalent if athletes did not overlook this very useful exercise. It is, in fact, even more surprising when one considers that the heaviest bench ever executed was performed with a reverse grip. This was a standard assistance exercise for legendary bencher Rick Weil, who eventually utilized it as his competition style, pushing 551 lbs. at a bodyweight of 181 lbs.

Partial bench exercises can take a wide variety of forms, and will be further subdivided into several categories: initial, or the start of the concentric, lockout, which will be used to refer to any portion of the bench higher than ½ of the distance to lockout, or specific. One difficulty arises in that exercises with specific variations with respect to the height at which they are performed, such as board presses, and presses from the rack, will fall into a different category based on the bench stroke of the individual. An athlete with a short bench stroke may find that the three board press strengthens the lockout, whereas an individual with a very long bench stroke will find that it strengthens the start or the mid-range of the bench. The same is true for partial presses from the rack. One of the keys to making partial exercises effective is that they must be performed in the correct range, with the joints at the proper angle.

Partial training is based on the attenuation principle, where the intent is to train in the range of motion where there is demand for maximal force production. This method is used to overload the musculoskeletal system as well as the CNS with supramaximal loads in the area of the ROM where maximal force is produced.(40) This also produces a decline in neural inhibition.(55) Numerous studies have shown that there is an area of the ROM where maximal force production occurs, and this area is often referred to as the ‘sticking point’.(13, 31, 57) Studies have shown that partial ROM training increases strength primarily at the trained ROM, although there is a certain amount of variance. (18, 27, 28, 48) It is worth noting that partial ROM exercise produces greater torque compared to full ROM exercise. (47, 58) One other benefit of performing partials is the lessened eccentric phase, which will result in less microtrauma, allowing quicker recovery.(29)

Board Press: Allows the lifter to maintain tension throughout the torso but still work a partial ROM. Much of the weight is transferred to the athlete at the bottom of the rep, when the bar is paused.

Rack Press: Similar to board press, but harder for the athlete to maintain tension in the torso. This exercise is easier to vary, as changing pin heights is relatively simple, but there is greater risk of injury if the athlete does not achieve the appropriate levels of muscular tension prior to the concentric phase. This exercise can also be used to push very heavy weights, allowing the CNS to be better conditioned for handling heavier weights.

Floor Press: Good for working the initial portion of the bench. For lifters with weak triceps, this may not be the best assistance exercise.

Isometric press: This exercise involves utilizing a power rack with the pins set just above and below the sticking point. The athlete will then press the weight off the pins, forcibly contacting the next set of pins. This will be repeated for a total of three times, and when the bar contacts the pins the third time, the athlete should push against the pins for at least six seconds, with the goal of exhausting every possible muscle fiber.

Work for the triceps is basically the same. Variations of extensions, as the function of the triceps is to extend the elbow joint. There are a great many types of extension, so many, in fact, that they would be the subject for an entire document of their own. The purpose of all of them is to increase the strength of the triceps through hypertrophy, and a wide number of set and rep schemes can be used. Only a couple exercises will be mentioned specifically.

Dips: Good for the novice, who is not used to pushing heavy weight. As the athlete becomes more advanced, there is the matter of diminishing returns. Perhaps it is because of the strain on the shoulder joint, the fact that so many muscles are involved that it is hard to target a specific weakness with this exercise, or for some unknown reason, but advanced athletes seem to benefit very little from this exercise.

French Press: Yet another overlooked exercise. Whether seated or standing, this exercise provides a benefit many other do not: it fully stretches the long head of the triceps, which crosses the shoulder joint. This can be quite beneficial for a lifter who has been doing short range isolation movements.

Pushdowns: These exercises do very little to truly develop functional strength, and should be used only for active recovery or as GPP.

Exercise for the shoulder girdle are of the utmost importance. Not only the anterior deltoid, which functions as an agonist in the bench press, but the medial and posterior deltoids, the trapezius, as well as the rotator cuff and rhomboids.

Pressing exercises, whether with barbells or dumbbells, are one of the best all around shoulder exercises. The anterior and medial deltoid will be directly stimulated, and the posterior will function as synergists. The traps will be used to support the musculature of the shoulders during overhead pressing as well. Pressing can also be performed from various pin heights within the rack, adding extra variations to the lifter’s arsenal.

Pressing behind the neck is often viewed as dangerous, and this is true: if the athlete does not maintain adequate flexibility in the shoulders, strength in the external rotators, and a certain amount of flexibility in the chest. As at least one of these factors is generally sadly lacking, this variation of pressing exercise can be quite hard on the athlete.

Snatch Grip Press Behind the Neck: This exercise is rarely performed in the United States, as Olympic weightlifting is not as popular as it once was. This exercise is one of the reasons when Overhead lifting was the rule, rather than the exception, that rotator cuff injuries were few and far between.

The strength and recruitment of the latissimus dorsai is essential to a big bench, and so correspondingly the lats should be trained in the manner which not only most closely simulates the motion of the bench, but allows the athlete to achieve greater recruitment of the lats. As the lats are basically worked in two directions (there are minute exceptions which are not very applicable) exercises will be grouped into two categories.

Chins/Pullups/Pulldowns: All excellent movements for strengthening the lats, and chins and pull ups are superior to pulldowns due to the greater number of motor units recruited. If an athlete is going to perform chins or pull ups, care must be taken not to bounce out of the bottom portion of the exercise, as this can cause bicep tendonitis or other elbow problems.

Rows: While certain types of rows have been shown to display a higher EMG activation rating, such a s dumbbell rows, the athlete working to improve the bench should make the row as specific as possible. Ideally, this will be with the chest supported, the bar held in the same grip, and it is rowed in the same plane as the bench is executed. Rotating different variations of this exercise can be useful.

The trapezius is a muscle that helps stabilize the entire shoulder girdle, as well as the neck and head, and is often neglected in many conventional programs.

The basic exercise for strengthening the trapezius is the shrug. This exercise can be performed with barbells or dumbbells, and can be performed in an explosive manner allowing more weight to be used as well as increasing the effective ROM.

The other method for strengthening the traps as well as the upper back would be the Olympic lifts. While learning the classic (full) versions of the snatch and clean and jerk could be counter productive, partial versions of the quick lifts can be readily learned and provide a degree of stimulation to the upper back that is unparalleled by other forms of lifting.

The power snatch is one of the best exercises for strengthening the upper back that has ever been practiced. In addition to strengthening the traps, posterior deltoids, rhomboids and teres major, the external rotators are strengthened quite thoroughly. This exercise, or a variation of it, is often used for this very purpose.

The power clean will work the traps quite well, and more weight can be used than in the power snatch. This exercise will work the posterior deltoids, rhomboids, and teres major, but it does not strengthen the external rotators to the same degree as the power snatch. If strengthening the external rotators is the primary goal, dumbbells can be more effective.

Pulls: Whether executed with a snatch or clean grip, performed from the deck, the hang, or pins, Olympic pulls can work the traps through an incredible range of motion, and there will be some stimulation of the other muscles of the upper back.

Biceps: The only function the biceps brachialis serves is as a stabilizer in the bench press. For this reason, there is little reason for the athlete interested in strengthening the bench to spend much time curling. The brachialis serves as a stabilizer as well, and often more so than the biceps, so reverse curls and hammer curls can be of some use.

Forearms: The muscular of the forearm is far more important to the bench than the biceps. The brachioradialis serves to stabilize the elbow joint, and the extensors and flexors stabilize the wrist joint.

Reverse Curls: This exercise primarily strengthens the brachioradialis, but also serves to strengthen the brachialis.

Hammer Curls: Similar to reverse curls, with less effect on the brachioradialis, but more stimulation of the brachialis.

Wrist Curls: Can be used to strengthen both the flexors and the extensors.

Grip work: Grip work in general can be divided into a few categories as well, but the primary interest of the athlete seeking to improve the bench is static contraction.

A final note: Aside from the obvious cautions about using spotters or a power rack, there is one other difficulty that is often overlooked. The bench press will heavily work the internal rotators (supraspinatus and infraspinatus) but not stress the externals to any great degree. The external rotators (subscapularis and teres minor) are equally important, and should receive attention. While mention has been made of the fact that some of the Olympic lifts work the external rotators, this needs to be stressed. If these moves are not utilized, a certain amount of specific work for these small muscles should be included. The key aspect to any training program is that the health of the athlete is paramount.

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34. McDonagh, M.J. and C.T. Davies. Adaptive responses of mammalian skeletal muscle to exercise with high loads. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 52:139-155. 1984.

35. McLaughlin, T.M., Bar path and the bench press. Powerlifting USA 8(5):19-20. 1984.

36. McLaughlin, T.M. Grip spacing and arm position. Powerlifting USA 8(6):24. 1985.

37. Medical Plastics Laboratory. Human Anatomy Manual: The Skeleton. Gatesville, TX: Med. Plastics Lab., 1992.

38. Mookerjee, S. and N. Ratamess, N. Comparison of strength differences and joint action durations between full and partial range-of-motion bench press exercise. J. Strength Cond. Res. 13(1):76-81. 1999.

39. Perry, J. and G. Berkley. EMG-force relationships in skeletal muscle. CRC. Crit. Rev. Biomed. Eng. 12:1-22. 1981.

40. Rutherford, G.M. and D.A. Jones. The role of learning and coordination in strength training. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 55:100-105. 1986.

41. Sahlin, K., and J.M. Ren. Relationship of contraction capacity to metabolic changes during recovery from a fatiguing contraction. J. Appl. Physiol. 67:677-681.

42. Sale, D.G. Testing strength and power. In: Physiological Testing of the High Performance Athlete (2nd ed.). J.D. MacDougall, H.D. Wenger, and H.J. Green, eds. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics, 1991. pp. 21-106.

43. Scheving, L.E. and J.E. Pauly. An electromyographic study of some muscles acting on the upper extremity of man. Anat. Rec. 135:239-246. 1959.

44. Sewall, L.P. and J.E. Lander. The effects of rest on maximal efforts in the squat and bench press. J. Appl. Sport Sci. Res. 5:96-99. 1991.

45. Stone, M. and H. O’Bryant. Weight Training: A Scientific Approach. Minneapolis: Burgess, 1984.

46. Stull, G.A. and D.H. Clarke. Patterns of recovery following isometric and isotonic strength decrement. Med. Sci. Sports 3:135-139. 1971.

47. Sullivan, J.J., R.G. Knowlton, P. DeVita, and D.D. Brown. Cardiovascular response to restricted range of motion resistance exercise. J. Strength Cond. Res. 10:3-7. 1996.

48. Thepaut-Mathieu, C., J. VanHoecke, and B. Maton. Myoelectrical and mechanical changes linked to length specificity during isometric training. J. Appl. Physiol. 64:1500-1505. 1988.

49. Tsunoda, N., F. O’Hagan, D.G. Sale, and J.D. MacDougall. Elbow flexion strength curves in untrained men and women and male bodybuilders. Eur. J. Appl. Physiol. 66:235-239. 1993.

50. Wagner, L.L., S. Evans, J. Weir, T. Housh. The effect of rest interval length on repeated maximal bench press performance. Int. J. Sport Biomech. 8:1-10. 1992.

51. Wagner, L.L., S.A. Evans, J.P. Weir, T.J. Housh, and G.O. Johnson. The effect of grip width on bench press performance. Int. J. Sport Biomech. 8:1-10. 1992.

52. Warfel, J.H. The Extremities: Muscles and Motor Points. Philadelphia: Lea & Febiger, 1985.

53. Weir, J.P., L. Wagner, and T. Housh. The effect of rest interval length on repeated maximal bench press. J. Strength Cond. Res. 8:58-60. 1994.

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Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

The Deadlift

Written by “Arioch”



The deadlift is a heavy compound movement that should be included in the exercise program of any lifter. As this lift will strengthen not only the entire back, but the musculature of the hips, abdominals, and legs, as well as work the grip, proficiency in this lift is a must. Like the squat, the deadlift will stimulate a growth response from the body that should carry over into strength and size gains in other areas.

There are two basic styles of deadlifting, conventional and sumo. Each style will be explained, and compared to the contrasting style. While certain aspects of deadlifting are similar, such as the fact that the lifter is basically picking a weight up off of the deck, and raising to the highest possible level without bending the arms, a great many differences in biomechanics occur as a result of the differing styles.

The conventional stance consists of the athlete standing with the feet approximately shoulder width apart, or slightly narrower. To position the feet properly, slide them forward as far as possible without moving the shoulders in front of the bar. The hips should be as close to the bar as possible as well, but the lower back must remain arched. The head should be elevated so that the athlete is looking forward and slightly upwards. The shoulders should be back, but slightly rounded. Retracting the shoulders causes the shoulder girdle to elevate, increasing the distance the lifter must pull the bar. The athlete must grip the bar tightly, and to ensure that the bar does not roll, a mixed grip (one hand supinated, one hand pronated) is often employed.

The true beginning of the deadlift is the set up, or the first phase (as it is known in Olympic lifting), which has already been described. The next step, before pulling the bar free from the deck is to fill the abdominal cavity with air. While drawing in as much air as possible, the goal is to push it down as far as possible, not fill the chest cavity. Filling the chest cavity with air elevates the shoulders, which will increase the distance the lifter must pull the bar.

The deadlift is initiated by simultaneously extending the knee and hip joints. The knee will extend due to the contraction of the quadriceps muscles (vastus lateralis, vastus medialis, vastus intermedius, and rectus femoris), and, during the extension, may move slightly to the rear. The hip joint will extend secondary to the contraction of the gluteus and the hamstrings (biceps femoris, semitendinosus, and semimembranosus). While the entire hamstring is active to a certain degree during the deadlift, the semitendinosus and semimembranosus are recruited to a much greater degree to extend the hip joint.

The bar should be pulled into the body, as well as up. This keeps the athlete from falling forward during the lift, as it helps maintain a far more stable combined center of gravity (CCOG). This is where the placement of the feet is a significant factor. If they are too far forward, causing the shins to be closer to the bar than necessary, the bar must be pulled around the knees, instead of past them. This shortens the lever arm distance and reduces the resistive torque.

During this period, and indeed, throughout the entire lift, the musculature of the upper back and shoulders (trapezius, latissimus dorsai, teres minor, subscapularis, infraspinatus, supraspinatus, as well as the anterior, medial and posterior deltoids) will be undergoing an isometric contraction to hold the bar in a stable position. In the arm, the biceps brachii, brachialis, and brachioradialis will also contract isometrically to stabilize the elbow joint. The forearm flexors are extremely active during the gripping of the bar.

The erector spinae (iliocostalis thoracis, iliocostalis lumborum, longissimus dorsai, and spinalis dorsai) will contract during the lift, along with the intertransversarii, interspinalis, rotores, and multifidus muscles to bring the spine into an erect position. These muscles become more active once the back is extended past a point that would be 60 degrees away from vertical. The inter-transversarii, interspinalis, rotors, and multifidus will also serve to stabilize the vertebrae and discs. In the conventional deadlift, the torso is inclined far more than in the sumo style, in direct contrast to recommendations for a more erect torso to reduce shear force on the lumbar vertebrae (4, 9, 12).

As the bar travels past the knees, and up the thighs, several key points must be noted. It is imperative that the knees not re-bend once they have begun to straighten. In addition to the extra strain this will put on the ligaments and tendons, secondary flexion of the knees (hitching) is cause for disqualification during a competition. Another mistake that is often made as the lift nears completion is the lifter will try to pull the torso back, when it is far easier to simply push the hips forward. This technique will allow the athlete to shift some of the strain from the erectors to the larger muscles of the hips, including the gluteus. At the top of the lift, the shoulders should be pulled back to indicate the completion of the lift. This is not necessary for routine training of the deadlift, but a powerlifter should practice this to avoid unnecessary red lights.

The major difference that occurs in the sumo deadlift is the placement of the feet. They are placed much wider, sometimes even twice shoulder width, although this is an extreme. The toes are turned outward, sometimes to the point where the angle of the feet approaches 160 degrees. There are several biomechanical advantages to this stance. The distance the bar must travel is greatly lessened as the hip angle is on average 12 degrees greater than the hip angles of conventional deadlifters, while the knee angle is approximately 13 degrees greater. (7, 12) The trunk angle is significantly closer to vertical, which, from a pure safety standpoint, the sumo stance decreases both L4/L5 moments as well as shear forces. (4) Furthermore, the sumo stance allows the lifter to keep the bar closer to the body, which shortens the movement arm to the lumbar spine. (12) This stance can reduce the total distance the bar travels by as much as 25 – 40%. (7)

The functional technique in the deadlift is different as well. The athlete pulling a conventional deadlift will push straight down with the feet, whereas in the sumo deadlift, the knees must be pushed out over the toes. This is important, to avoid lateral shear force on the knee, as well as the fact that it allows the lifter to engage the larger muscles of the hips earlier than in the conventional stance. As a function of the bar being closer to the lifter, it will contact the legs earlier. As the bar slides up the thighs, it is important to ensure that the fingers of the pronated hand are not torn open by the friction thus generated. A modest amount of baby powder or talcum may be applied to the legs to reduce the chance of this occurring.

One factor that has not been discussed that makes the deadlift unique among the three powerlifts is that unlike the squat and bench, there is no eccentric (lengthening, or lowering) portion prior to the concentric (shortening, or raising) of the bar. This has the function of negating the stretch reflex, a fact that is often overlooked by many athletes and coaches alike. There is a way of generating a small stretch reflex, which may help when initiating the lift, but nothing like the reflex that can be generated during the other two powerlifts. In the conventional stance, a slight rocking of the hips, which will cause the knees to flex as well, can be employed. The lift should be initiated when the hips are at the lowest point, and this movement must occur rapidly. Care must be taken when doing this, as if the hips descend too far, the lifter will be at a biomechanical disadvantage.

Unsurprisingly, there is a difference when using this technique when pulling sumo. This technique (often called ‘diving’) can allow the sumo lifter to generate a greater stretch reflex without moving out of position, unlike the conventional deadlift. Because the feet are father apart, instead of just raising and lowering the hips, the hips should be lowered rapidly then thrust forward at the bottom of the descent. This allows not only for a greater stretch reflex, but for an even more erect torso than lifters who pull from a static position.

Variations on the deadlift

There are several varieties of the deadlift, and can be used not only to assist in deadlift training, but can also significantly strengthen muscles that can be impeding progress in another lift. Some of these lifts can be used in place of the deadlift during training as well.

One of the most common variations of the deadlift is the partial deadlift, or rack lockout. These are usually performed in a power rack, with the pins set at a variety of heights. Pulls can be done from one inch above the deck to a couple of inches below lockout. As a general rule, the shorter the ROM, the more weight that can be handled. The primary function of the partial deadlift is to not only overload the muscles of the back, as well as increase motor recruitment. (5, 18) At times, the amount of weight that can be handled during the execution of a short range of motion rack pull can be so great that it surpasses the amount of weight the athlete can hold. In this case, it may be necessary to employ straps to secure the weight. (6)

Another common variation is the stiff-legged deadlift (SLDL) which will work the hamstrings to a much greater degree than the conventional deadlift. (2, 10) This lift should begin just like a conventional deadlift, and should be pulled to the top in the same manner. The knees will be stiff, but not locked, as the bar is lowered as far as possible without allowing the back to round. The lower back should remain arched throughout the entire lift, and if the back begins to round despite the best attempts of the athlete, it is necessary at this point to begin the concentric portion of the lift and raise the bar. The bar will travel away from the lifter as the hips are flexed progressively. There is greater torque on the hips and lumbar areas because of the greater horizontal distance from the bar to the base of the support than in the conventional deadlift. (3, 4, 17)

Despite the fact that numerous “muscle mags” often illustrate a lifter performing this exercise while elevated, this should be avoided by all at first and most athletes for the duration of their career. The greater the range of motion, the greater the chance of lifting with a kyphotic (round back) posture. (10) Artificially increasing the ROM will serve only to increase the chances of this occurring. It must also be noted that a comprehensive stretching program is essential to not only athletes, but everyone wishing to improve the ROM of this exercise.

The Romanian Deadlift (RDL) is used primarily to strengthen the hamstrings, gluteus, and lower back, although this technique causes less stress to the lumbar area. Unlike the SLDL, the RDL is initiated from the floor, although the set up is roughly in-between that of the conventional deadlift and the SLDL. (23) During the ascension, the knees should begin to straighten in advance of the hips, with the goal of keep the torso at the same angle as in the beginning of the lift for as long as possible. This should occur while maintaining normal spinal curvature. Pulling in such a manner allows the athlete to keep the bar closer to the base of support, decreasing the strain on the lumbar area when compared to the SLDL. As the knees fully straighten, the hips shall travel toward the rear slightly, then the hips are then powerfully flexed, fully utilizing the hamstrings and erectors to complete the lift. This lift is often performed by Olympic style weightlifters to increase the strength of the clean pull.

Another variation that is not often performed is the Snatch Grip Deadlift (SGL). This version of the deadlift is similar to a conventional deadlift, with the only difference occurring in the placement of the hands upon the bar. The grip is at least one and a half times shoulder width, while larger lifters will often grip collar to collar. A good general guide to novices is to extended the arms out to the sides, then bend only at the elbow. The bar should be held at approximately the width of the elbows. The difficulty of maintaining the grip in such a position, as the mixed grip cannot be used, will require the used of straps for those not very experienced in utilizing the hook grip. This lift will further stress the musculature of the upper back, particularly the trapezius. (19) This lift is often performed by Olympic style weightlifters to increase power of the first pull, making it easier for the athlete to raise weights from the deck.

A simple method of increasing the ROM of a deadlift is for the athlete to stand on a block. Once again, care must be taken to avoid kyphotic lifting posture. The increase in ROM will necessitate a decrease in weight.

Deadlift Training

There are far too many methods of training to improve the deadlift to list here. A few will be briefly discussed.

Periodization. This is a simple yet effective method of decreasing the volume while increasing the weight. This process occurs over a period of weeks or months. It is by far the most common method of training, although lifters are branching out in new directions daily. This method has been discussed in great detail in numerous other works, and will not be discussed further here.

Conjugate Training. This is a system of training the musculature of the lift without overtraining the CNS with respect to a single lift. The deadlift is not trained heavy throughout the cycle, and in some training cycles, may be trained only rarely. This method was first used in Olympic weightlifting by the incredibly successful Soviet Dynamo Club.(24) It was later used by the original Westside Barbell Club in the 1960’s and 1970’s, as well as some lifters on the East coast, including Bill Starr, a former Olympic weightlifter turned coach. (21). It is currently the system employed by the new Westside Barbell Club, of Columbus, Ohio, under the coaching of Louie Simmons, the most successful coach in powerlifting history.(20) This method will involve heavy assistance work for the lift itself, such as partial deadlifts, good mornings, etc. A list of assistance exercises can be found at: www.elitefts.com

An interesting variation for training the deadlift was employed by the great Don Rheinholdt, the first man to squat 900 lbs. in competition as well as being one of the first to deadlift over 800 lbs. He would set up with his opener in the power rack eight inches off of the deck, and pull it. He would then drop the pins one inch every week until the week before the meet, when the plates were just a single inch off of the floor. This allowed him to preserve his lower back while maintaining proper form.

A final word on a couple of myths. Numerous “experts” have cautioned against utilizing the deadlift, incorrectly stating that it is hazardous to perform. This is true, if the above cautions are not employed. While there can be a place for round back lifting in the program of the highly advanced lifter, this is a mistake for most and will not be discussed further. Other self proclaimed authorities state that you must wear a belt when deadlifting. A belt can help increase intra-abdominal pressure, as well as increase the force generated when deadlifting. However, the majority of the deadlifting done by any athlete should be performed without a belt to further recruit the core muscles (abdominals, obliques, etc.).

References:

1. Bacchle, T.R. Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning. Champaign IL: Human Kinetics, 1994.
2. Baker, G. Exercise of the month. Strength Cond. J. 16:54-55.1994.
3. Brown, E.W., and Abani, K. Kinematics and kinetics of the deadlift in adolescent powerlifters. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 17:554-563. 1985.
4. Cholewicki, J., McGill, S.M., and R.W. Norman. Lumbar spine loads during the lifting of extremely heavy weights. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 23:1179-1186. 1986.
5. Daniels, D. Partial lifts, partial results. Powerlifting USA. 17:27 1993.
6. Daniels, D. Lifting straps. Powerlifting USA. 19:17 1996.
7. Escamilla, R.F. et al. A three-dimensional biomechanical analysis of sumo and conventional style deadlifts. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., 32(7): 1265-1275. 2000.
8. Enoka, R.M. Neuromechanical Basis of Kinesiology. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics, 988.
9. Farley, K. Analysis of the conventional deadlift. Strength Cond. J. 17:55-57. 1995.
10. Gardner, P.J. and Cole, D. The stiff-legged deadlift. Strength Cond. J. 21:7-14. 1999.
11. Garhammer, J. Weightlifting and training. In: Biomechanics of Sport. C.L. Vaughan, ed. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press, 1989. pp 169-211.
12. Grabiner, M.D. and Garhammer, J. Analysis and assessment of human movement performance. In: Kinesiology and Applied Anatomy. P.J. Rasch, ed. Philadelphia: Lea & Febiger, 1989. pp 247-258.
13. Horn, T.S. A biomechanical comparison of sumo and conventional deadlifting techniques. Int. J. Sports Med. 9:150. 1988.
14. Jones, L. USWF Club Coach Accreditation Course: Club Coach Manual. Colorado Springs, CO: U.S. Weightlifting Federation. 1991
15. Kraemer, W.J. and Fleck, S.J. Strength Training for Young Athletes. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics. 1993.
16. McLaughin, T.M., Dillman, C.J., and Lardner, T.J. A Kinematic model of performance in the parallel squat by champion powerlifters. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. 9:128-133. 1977.
17. McGuigan, M.R.M., and B.D. Wilson. Biomechanical analysis of the deadlift. J. Strength Cond. Res. 10:250-255. 1996.
18. Piper, T.J. and Waller, M. Variations of the deadlift. Strength Cond. J. 23: (3) 66-73).
19. Rasch, P.J. Weight Training (2nd ed.). Dubuque, IA: Wm. C. Brown Company Publishers. 1975.
20. Simmons, L. So you want to deadlift. Powerlifting USA. 17:34-35. 1994.
21. Starr, B. Deadlift without deadlifting. Powerlifting USA. 18:10-11. 1995.
22. Tate, D. Top Ten deadlifting mistakes.
23. Whaley, O., and McClure, R. Another perspective on teaching the pulling movements. Strength Cond. J. 19:58-61. 1997.
24. Zatsiorsky, V.M. Science and Practice of Strength Training. Champaign IL. Human Kinetics. 1995.
25. Zinc, A. J., Whiting, W.C., Vincent, W.J., and McLaine, A.J. The effects of a weight belt on trunk and leg muscle activity and joint kinematics during the squat exercise. J. Strength Cond. Res. 15(2):235-240. 1994.
 
Alright, well I'm up and ready today to go do the Wednesday workout of the single-factor today, but I've encountered one problem: my legs still feel like they've been torn apart by a band of savage primates. I have no idea how I'm going to squat today, not to mention deadlift. I mean it honestly hurts to simply move my damn legs right now. Should I go even lighter than planned today? I'd be all about going as heavy as possible if I was instructed to, but I'm not sure I'm even physically capable of squatting myself let alone weights today.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

siamesedream said:
Alright, well I'm up and ready today to go do the Wednesday workout of the single-factor today, but I've encountered one problem: my legs still feel like they've been torn apart by a band of savage primates. I have no idea how I'm going to squat today, not to mention deadlift. I mean it honestly hurts to simply move my damn legs right now. Should I go even lighter than planned today? I'd be all about going as heavy as possible if I was instructed to, but I'm not sure I'm even physically capable of squatting myself let alone weights today.

Ok - soreness/DOMS has to do with lack of conditioning for the load applied. People who get consistently sore all the time generally train a body part 1x per week which is a shitty frequency on a consistent basis and runs into detraining. Also the frequency is so low you don't really build conditioning so you always get some form of DOMS if you work a lot.

Nornally, if you are a little sore, stretch out and train through it. You'll get to a point soon where you don't get sore at all.

That being said, it sounds like you are major sore where me touching your legs would bring out a scream. You can't train like that. What you should do is do some stretches and some very light and easy work to put some blood in the muscles and facilitate recovery (it really works). Massage, hot/cold can help too. The bottom line is that it's going to take you a bit to be able to tolerate this if a single day got you that sore but trust me, soon DOMS will be just a memory and a pretty rare occurence (but you'll be gaining well which will further drive the point home that DOMS is not related to a stimulative workout but is conditioning driven. Give it a few weeks.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

dear madcow,

can you give me an example routine for when i finish the 5x5?

im confused about how much volume to use and the frequency...

and how long should i stay on it? i dont think i took a long enough break between each 5x5 routine (only 3 weeks)

i think after this my body can take a rest from all this squatting :)

many thanx
 
First off, terrific thread here. I've gone a couple cycles of the 5x5 to great excitement and progress before taking a few weeks off due to life schedule.

I'm getting back into it soon and my question is regarding the replacement of back squats with front squats. My issue is two-fold:

1) the only gym I have semi-convenient access to (read: close to home and FREE) does not have any type of real squatting apparatus.... only a damn smith machine. I've been squatting steadily in the smith for about a year now, but the more I read the more I want to get away from this practice and squat entirely free-weight. With nowhere to rack the bar, this leaves me with variations like hack, zercher, front, etc. Of these, I'm assuming fronts are the best alternative to normal ATG back squats -- please correct me if I'm wrong.

2) assuming front squats are the next best substitute, my second concern is that I've never in my life performed them! I've read elsewhere from madcow and others that there's nothing to do but just start ultralight and gradually build solid form and technique.

So my question then is: can I substitue the 3x week smith-squat training with 3x (or 2x?) week front squat training? Namely, can I perform the rest of the Starr 5x5 routine as normal, while learning and improving with the front squat? If so, how should things be adjusted (since obviously loading/deloading factors will be drastically altered)?

If this is not a desirable approach, how/what type of training routine should I try to set up to emphasize my attempts to learn a new movement while avoiding the typical 1x wk lifting of standard BB routines? From taking the past few weeks off, I'm currently deloaded and ready for anything.

Open to suggestions!

-- KhorneDeth

Edited to add, I found this in a recent post by Madcow:

Madcow2 said:
As an experiment, if I was serious about front squatting - I'd heal up first and then start light and gradually increase week to week. Maybe even start at 135 for reps (yeah I know it's really low but you are not building strength but conditioning your body for the movement as this seems to be the issue). You could add this in at the end of a workout or as a warmup and I doubt it would have much effect on your real lifts. Gradually build it up and I'd bet you'll be handling heavy weights in the movement without problem within 2 months. Try twice a week at first (no failure or anything just work through the range in warmup) and then as it gets more significant you might have to factor its impact into your programming.

This seems like sound advice, but would you advocate eventually replacing smith back squats entirely, rather than just "factoring its impact"? (At least, until I convince them to spring for a power rack, hehe). And in the meantime, would you advocate continuing to use the smith machine while training the 5x5?
 
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You're going to have to bite the bullet at some time and start doing free squats. Despite the drop in weight and I know it'll be a big one, free weight front squats will be an order of magnitude better for you than the Smith machine.

Do you have a couple of workout partners who are in the same position who could act as a squat rack to get the bar up onto your shouders?

If you can make the break from the Smith machine your lower body is going to have a brief hard time adjusting to squatting free. You're going to have to spend some time using the stabilizer muscles and you'll probably have to spend at least a month and maybe two before you'll be ready to run the 5x5 again. Maybe it'd be worth doing a run of the single-factor while the legs adjust.

I don't know whether you've already read this post but it covers the past four to five months for me after leaving the Smith machine
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5090747&postcount=12

The good news is that I can now squat ATF without wraps more than I can bench and with wraps I'm back to 400 breaking parallel. So, over the two movements I was previously doing on the Smith I'm back to where I was weightwise before I'd ever touched the 5x5 seven months ago. All that time just undoing the Smith work and bringing the rest of my muscles up to par. The sooner you stop using it, the better.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Lesaman69 said:
Hey Madcow2, watch out:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=15;t=354

I think this review will be very interesting, and as i hope, ridiculous. :p
Given that Starr's 5x5 is pretty time tested - probably far more so than any BBing program and it's variants have seen overwhelming success from novice to elite athletes over the years, I really doubt a good or bad review on a BBing site is going to change much.

It's not meant to be a comprehensive hypertrophy program. For BBing purposes, it's basically an offseason foundation cycle or something that one would run periodically in their macro training plan during periods where they are looking to add size and fundemental strength. All it does is increase strength in a valid range for hypertrophy on exercises that stimulate a lot of adaptation in the body, if you eat, you put on muscle - generally a lot as the strength gains tend to be fairly dramatic for those unnused to this style of program. A lot of the strength (specifically neural efficiency) will carry over into higher rep ranges and result in some nice hypertrophy later on too outside this program. That's kind of the point of accumulation/intensification or efficient/proficient type training as Colin put it (should have copied his post as it was useful). It's certainly not meant to be done forever or as the only program and the purpose is to introduce people to proper training (periodization, workload manipulation) and management of intensity, volume, and frequency - sort of break down BBing voodoo something that HST does too.

So to that end and it's effectiveness, it doesn't really require a rubber stamp. The base program is a tool and the purpose is to give someone a tool that gets results, teaches, and gets them interested in learning more. I've certainly never billed it as the "last program you need" and there are a lot of reasons why planning periodic variation in training will result in supperior progress.

Plus, the idea is that the base program is gradually adapted to the individual in terms of tolerances (i.e. there's a reason I won't ever throw up percents and why there is more advanced info at the bottom of my description to give people access to the wheels and cogs so to speak). I kind of punt on novices too and provide zero for beginners. A periodized program is really most useful to upper intermediate lifters and beyond, I just read an abstract the other day somewhere presenting empirical evidence that linear training (a la the non-periodized version) produces supperior strength gains in the untrained so that's something else to take into account. It's just not ever going to be all things to all people in a single design. No program can be and this is the job of a coach or someone who is their own coach.

So - the HST is a good program. I've said this many many times and encouraged people to try it simply because it's based on the way the body works (something of a rarity in BBing) and allows for some higher rep work and more targeted assistance work both of which are nice additions following a foundation style program like the 5x5. Bryan is pretty sharp - I believe he's familiar with this program. If you look at the template, there is a lot of similarity in the base methods employed. This is more a pure strength and bulking program than HST. For a BBer the 5x5 is a tool and his macro training should incorporate the strategic uses of a variety of tools.

Anyway - that's been my message since day 1. I think just about anyone who knows what they are talking about would agree with me. Glance at the TOC and you'll see the majority is not related to the 5x5 specifically but more training and methods in general to try to give people some exposure.

Anyway - everybody else's questions have to wait. I have to work for now. Be back soon.
 
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Lesaman69 said:
Hey Madcow2, watch out:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=15;t=354

I think this review will be very interesting, and as i hope, ridiculous. :p

Reading through some of those programs real quick gave me a headache. HST I get but some of the others made my head swim. I'm sure once you sit down and go through it they're not that complicated but man...

I remember starting 5 x 5 the first time I had to bring a cheat sheet to the gym the first couple weeks, and I read over the monster thread like 10 or 15 times (luckily it was only like 15pgs back then :p )

Now, I can almost explain it when someone asks me what I'm doing (I do that finger quote thing a lot, though)
 
@madcow2.

I meant this post:
"Vicious, it would be awesome if you'd review Bill Starr's 5x5 Routine. I'll post a link to a huge thread over on EliteFitness that encompasses everything on the routine. I'd love to see what you have to say about the program, especially since all the empirical evidence points to it being awesome for both strength and size, not to mention explosiveness (an athlete's dream) if you choose to incorporate the olympic lifts.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215"

I waited for the 5x5 "review" by vicious. And as i thought, i didnt´get disappointed, his answer is up. He now showed an optimization of the dual factor 5x5. What an jackass.

With every post, he shows more and more idiotic thoughts. Just another 100lbs expert.


Hmm, isn't this more of a SST question?

Short Optimization Technique

If you want to make 5x5 REALLY sing, then pre-empt your 5x5 cycle with a 2 to 3 week EDT-style phase in order to jack up mitochondrial density and raise up potential anabolic vs. catabolic energy state. (Try doing with pulse-style exercises.) During this period, eat big and emphasize a carb load. Then give yourself about 5-7 days to reset your CNS partially, and *then* start out on 5x5. Makes your glycogen stores are extremely high going into 5x5.

When you get into 5x5, your strength will take off. But, you'll also notice big size gains from the get-go, if you eat like a linebacker. The upside is that your LBM to fat ratio should be terrific as well.

Yeah, I have a lengthy interpretation of 5x5. In short, it has to do with how E-C decoupling basically comes from two factors (elevated rate coding and sarcomere microstrain), and how 5x5, through cluster mechanism, keeps both within a "normal" level, allowing a continuance of an acclimation process whereby the target load's effective necessary rate coding will be significantly lowered over a 6-10 week time frame.

Anyway, it'll eventually go into a weird, 2nd generation tweak of HST that's going to combine cluster-density training, EDT, and metabolic workouts, using a three variable time table which will decouple mechanical strain, metabolic adaptations, and nutrient repartioning stimulated from metabolic work.

Then again, it's baseball season and I'm really worried about the A's catching up to the Angels. Maybe after October?
 
Madcow,

I don't know if this question has been asked before (I'm only at page 15 of this thread and want to start monday with this routine)

For the alternative deload/intensity phase you wrote the following:


Alternative Deload/Intensity:
This is really the one that most people should be doing. If you don't handle the other correctly you can blow your program but I didn't want to switch it and confuse people.

Week 5 and on switch to 3x3 and drop the Friday workout altogether. Week 5 weights are the same as the final week of volume. Over the next 2-3 weeks increase increase the weight workout to workout if you get all 9 reps. If you don't get all the reps, week the weight constant. You'll likely be able to move straight back into another volume phase after this is complete.

Monday:
Oly squats: 3x3
Bench: 3x3
Rows: 3x3

Wednesday (or move this workout to Thursday if you'd like)
Light Oly Squats (70% of monday): 3x3
Deadlifts: 3x3
Military Press: 3x3
Chins:3x3


My question: Do I only have to do the 3x3 throughout this phase or are there still 1x3 days as given in your core discription? This question is regarding the intensity phase not the deloading phase

Other questions:

If I can't do 5x5 pull ups and only be able to hit 5 reps the first 3 sets...should I do the pull ups with a little help from a spotter or finish the last 2 sets on a lat pull down machine

Do you lock out your elbows with the military's?

And are the pr's you set in weeks 3 and 4 based on your 1 rm (the one you had before this routine) or on the 5x5 you could do before this routine?

Thanks
 
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So, I'll answer the few questions outstanding from the last few days over the weekend. I'm just too slammed right now.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Madcow2 said:
So, I'll answer the few questions outstanding from the last few days over the weekend. I'm just too slammed right now.

awesome, ill wait :)
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Lesaman69 said:
I waited for the 5x5 "review" by vicious. And as i thought, i didnt´get disappointed, his answer is up. He now showed an optimization of the dual factor 5x5. What an jackass.

With every post, he shows more and more idiotic thoughts. Just another 100lbs expert.

I think his optimization is more concerned with making sure the body is in the best state possible to handle the program before beginning. Not necessarily a bad thing. There has been at least one person here who was training heavy and went right into it and just burned himself right now. Given that it's a spectrum, I'm sure there are a few that wound up with suboptimal gains from not getting enough rest and recovery beforehand.

He's pretty technically inclined and interested in the internal "bio-mechanisms" of it. Whether what he says is true or not, I can't say. I really doubt anyone can at that level, conclusively at least. It's probably a valid theory though. Frankly it's an area that I don't know in depth enough to truly evaluate unless something is glaringly wrong. It's one thing to have a theory but it's another thing to have an encompassing grasp of the entire body of research in the area in order to really evaluate and see if there are contradictions (this is the same in any field and the one I know at this level isn't related to exercise science - to be honest, no one knows an entire field at this level but mainly portions or specialty interests).

Obviously he knows it works and what's behind it. Maximal strength increases in a valid hypertrophy range in the most stimulative compound lifts will drive strong adaptation. Caloric excess will provide the means for the body to adapt with hypertrophy. As long as caloric excess isn't rediculously out of line, it will be mostly muscle. That's the utilitarian view along with proper balance in factors and loading tailored to the individual.

Now, I can't speak to his successes and I don't know the guy but I don't see anything terribly out of line. Also, something to keep in mind is that some of the best coaches and training minds are not the most successful - I'd say in most cases they've had very limited success relative to the athletes they coach (and this is accross many sports - think golf for instance). Perhaps it was a passion to make the most out of their limited resources that allowed them to accumulate knowledge and really build an understanding. Maybe just love of the sport. I've generally found the HST guys to be pretty knowledgable. I'm not familiar with them all or even many and I've never read anything from vicious I don't believe but the few I've seen are generally really open minded, interested in learning, and open to re-evaluating if compelling evidence is presented to the contrary - that's a pretty good recipe for learning and success.

Anyway, that was more time than I could spare. I'm going to have to make some excuse to the boys in NYC for getting my stuff in late. I hope that sheds some light though.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Tolerance to Workload - A Paradigm Shift

This came up in super_rice's thread on his experience with Stephen Korte's 3x3 program (THREAD HERE )when the conversation touched on the Smolov squat cycle. I think it's incredibly valuable to understand and is a fundemental concept of training and progression (i.e. a basic piece of knowledge). Unfortunately, it is probably the least understood concept in most commercial gyms and certainly fitness/bodybuilding.

Do you think these programs were designed with testosterone, or similar, supplementation taken for granted? I guess the program is probably fine for anyone with decent conditioning and if you have supra-human recovery then you can extend it with assitance work.

I've read reviews of the Smolov routine which have pretty much said forget any idea of attempting the full program if you're natural.

Madcow2 said:
Work capacity varies drastically and most people have none or train fairly infrequently and don't put much volume into the big lifts so they lack conditioning. I've done the 3x3 natural and although hard I never thought of quitting it (except during the deads) and it worked well. Many others have done the same. Super_Rice isn't exactly a world level lifter and aside from conditioning in his lower back he made it through with hard work - actually I thought it was too much for him to bite off at this stage so I am really impressed and obviously he's reaped the rewards from it. The 5x5 can be racheted up magnitudes harder than I have it set and combined with all kind of other overlay work - this is tolerated fine by well conditioned naturals (visit www.midwestbarbell.com forums sometime and check out Glenn's posts in the OL forum his lifters backsquat and frontsquat quite a bit and the classic lifts are trained with high volume and hammer them too and this involves a lot of deep squat recoveries - probably more than I can or ever was in shape to handle though). I've tried an OL program straight from a world champ who ran it natural without issue - I was dead in 2 weeks even scaling it back a good amount, literally no point in going on.

So the Smolov is really hard, plenty of well conditioned naturals have done it (I haven't run it myself). Probably have to benchmark what else you can do besides the squatting fairly carefully depending on the individual. The fact that some say you have to be on drugs to do it is more indicative of the level of general conditioning in most trainees today. Probably the best in our country are our top olympic lifters and let me tell you, when some of our up and comers have visited former Soviet and Eastern European countries - they are awed by just how damn hard those guys train and what they can do both drugged and non-drugged. This is not a rare reaction and it's not like these aren't some hard working guys already. They know how to train and they bust their ass. They've spent years increasing their capacity and workloads (a foreign concept to most trainees). Most people don't know how to train and have only busted their ass in the parameters of low frequency programs where a lot of the volume lies in lighter assistance work. They go in and hope that by doing some random crap they'll get stronger. They never think to systematically alter the load and scale it over time or spend their time on the exercises that really matter.

Am I surprised to hear this reaction, no. Do I agree with it, no. Do I think the people who have this reaction lack a reference for what the human body can handle, yes. Should these people be doing this program, no.

biggt said:
Excellent post Madcow.

What people don't understand is how to develop their capicity for work. the base shouldn't only be expanded vertically to use more weights, it must be expander wider. Adding more sets, more volume.

Most people with a 405x5 squat would do something like this/.....135x10-225x10-315x5-405x5.......the only set worth a crap for a 405 squatter is the last one. This is fine as an 'amping-up' phase or a deload phase or a phase of reduced volume or whatever........but most trainees keep volume this low all year, never expanding work capicity. And, like Madcow said, they only thing they pound away with set after set after set is accessory stuff. In a loading period, I recently did an OHP workout, where 4x5 was my warm-up, I then did 5 singles, and then 3x5 as backoff sets. I don't and certainly can't do that year round, but at times limits need to be pushed, the base must be expanded not only up, but out.

People need to get out of the mindset of this...."okay, bench today.....135x8-225x8-275x5-315x2, then a bunch of flyes and hammer strength machines for 2 hours". .........It is okay to hammer away at the core lifts.

I don't want to rant, but this country is so brainwashed and misguided as a whole when it comes to strength training. there is just no access to good info. and therefore, a lack of interest in it. You can't walk into the supermarket and see MILO on the newsstand, but if you want FLEX, you've got your pick of the last 3 month' issues.

Point being, naturally, the body is capable of so much more than people think. Assisted, the body is capable of so much more than people think.

super_rice said:
A lot of expanding work capacity has to do with expanding mental capacity and perspective. During the second week of Korte, I felt like I was in way over my head, but as third week rolled around, and I began to adapt, I was actually thinking of ways to increase the volume and scale up (which I did).

Rodney Wood brought up running another cycle right afterwards to really acclimatize, but since I will be a freshman in university come September, I decided to "scale down" with 5x5 and assistance work. Since Korte's, 5x5 really is not that hard the way it is written.

My point is, work capacity is as mental conditioning and perspective as it is physical conditioning. As you guys pointed out, we need to change the way we think and approach training.

blut wump said:
Indeed, I see that a lot in the gym. There's one guy who benches exactly the same every time he's in: 135x5, 225x5, 315x5. He then moves to the machines. Last week he was complaining bitterly that he can't make six reps. I've seen him doing that same bench pattern for four months since I joined the gym.

Still, putting your rant aside, I'm still surprised that hardcore-seeming sites would fall into that mindset. My surprise is probably mostly a testament to the expectations that madcow has opened up on this forum, though. I spent a year having only 60 minutes to reach the gym do everything and get back to work. The compound exercises were too clearly the best bang for the buck not to spend most of my energy on them.

Thanks for the info madcow. Unless work gets in the way, I think I'm going to be starting the Korte after next week. My question was more geared to the Smolov than the Korte but even the Korte offers ranges of sets to play with for individual tolerances. The Smolov looks truly brutal but I think that six months ago I might have said the same of the Korte. The 5x5 felt uncomfortable when I first started to experience the five sets of five.

Madcow2 said:
So that post and this whole section is going into the 5x5 thread and indexed.

It represents a paradigm shift in how most people think about training (which is sad because this isn't rocket science, this is foundation/must know stuff). Hence people's reaction to the Smolov or initially even the reaction here to the frequency of the compound lifts in the 5x5 - which I think at this point enough people have gotten good gains and seen others routinely make solid progress (and more than a few have said the best progress of their lives) that they realize it not only can work for them but is pretty tolerable for just about the whole population providing it is setup correctly.

A) You don't need 7 days of rest before training a muscle again (Although there are times in a macro plan when such frequency can serve a purpose)

B) You don't hold volume constant and only play with intensity.

Granted it's easy to make cookie cutter programs geared to the workload tolerance of the least common denominator (LCD), because only varying intensity has a smaller effect on workload and tolerances to workload vary widely with experience and between individuals of the same experience. But this is a shoddy way to coach because it's only optimal for the few who are the LCD and the goal is to get optimal performance out of each individual - and you don't get that with cookie cutters even though it might be nice to sit on your butt and not have to do your job.

Now as an individual, it's even worse because YOUR optimal performance really matters to YOU and you are then playing the odds in hope that you are the LCD or not very far away from it. God forbid you are experienced with a high tolerance and complain because the built-in defense mechanism is to say "Well, look at these guys - they did great. You need to work harder." Obviously this goes the other way in people taking on a program that is too much for them and you get "Those guys are on drugs. Nobody can do that. I tried it and overtrained."
 
This isn't really a question about anything important, so slap me if you feel like it, but I just got back from the gym and I realized a problem. I've always assumed the standard weight of every bench-press/squat/deadlift/row bar was 45 pounds. At my gym, there are 2 flat bench press racks, and each has a different bar with one brownish and the other one silver. I always used the copper-colored brownish bar assuming it was 45 pounds. To see if they were both the same weight, I tried using the silver bar to do my set of 3 today with the same weights I'd use on the brownish bar, and I tried twice and was only able to push one rep. I then went back to the good ol' copper bar and was able to, as expected, push it up for 3 reps. I'll stick with the copper bar from now on since that's the one I've been using and know where I'm at on it, but I now really have no clue what amount I'm benching anymore. The gym employees just said "Interesting. I thought they were both 45 pounds". Hmmmm....
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

TheOak84 said:
dear madcow,

can you give me an example routine for when i finish the 5x5?

im confused about how much volume to use and the frequency...

and how long should i stay on it? i dont think i took a long enough break between each 5x5 routine (only 3 weeks)

i think after this my body can take a rest from all this squatting :)

many thanx

Tough one. I just have no reference for you to build something - it's kind of impossible to coach over the internet without very close communication and even then it's rolling dice. I'd probably take it easy for a while. I think the last time you finished you were still working hard, did a lot of high reps, and then hit maxes which may have thrown your recovery before beginning again - sort of starting off in a ditch so to speak.

Maybe do some higher rep training for a period. Depending on how you feel at the very end take at least 1-2 light weeks. Maybe figure out weak points in your lifts or something you believe to be lagging. Work on that. I'd set aside 4 weeks and if you are progressing and happy then continue. Make sure the first 2 are light if you are using that 3x per week intensity phase. Hell, maybe take the first week completely off if you feel like it. You've been training hard for a while.

Anyway, I'm rambling:
1) Light 1-2 weeks, maybe first week off
2) Do some higher rep work for a while
3) Work on targeted assistance lifts and lifts that you like but haven't been able to do under the 5x5
4) Set aside at least 4 weeks. Probably 6 with the first two light. Maybe 8 and make it a whole training cycle with 2-3 light/deload 2 acclimation 2 heavy load and 2 deload. With two deload weeks on the end you should be fresh again but play it by ear.
5) Maybe look at HST and how they do their high rep work, If you are recovered enough look at the DFHT stuff. Just get some ideas.
6) Have fun and enjoy.

Not really an answer but hopefully enough ideas to get you started. I can't really tell you for volume and frequency but slash both. 2x per week at the most (maybe try that week off if you are really beat up), this time I wouldn't push high intensity. Just chill and lower everything and get some recovery for a week or so.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

KhorneDeth said:
First off, terrific thread here. I've gone a couple cycles of the 5x5 to great excitement and progress before taking a few weeks off due to life schedule.

I'm getting back into it soon and my question is regarding the replacement of back squats with front squats. My issue is two-fold:

1) the only gym I have semi-convenient access to (read: close to home and FREE) does not have any type of real squatting apparatus.... only a damn smith machine. I've been squatting steadily in the smith for about a year now, but the more I read the more I want to get away from this practice and squat entirely free-weight. With nowhere to rack the bar, this leaves me with variations like hack, zercher, front, etc. Of these, I'm assuming fronts are the best alternative to normal ATG back squats -- please correct me if I'm wrong.

2) assuming front squats are the next best substitute, my second concern is that I've never in my life performed them! I've read elsewhere from madcow and others that there's nothing to do but just start ultralight and gradually build solid form and technique.

So my question then is: can I substitue the 3x week smith-squat training with 3x (or 2x?) week front squat training? Namely, can I perform the rest of the Starr 5x5 routine as normal, while learning and improving with the front squat? If so, how should things be adjusted (since obviously loading/deloading factors will be drastically altered)?

If this is not a desirable approach, how/what type of training routine should I try to set up to emphasize my attempts to learn a new movement while avoiding the typical 1x wk lifting of standard BB routines? From taking the past few weeks off, I'm currently deloaded and ready for anything.

Open to suggestions!

-- KhorneDeth

Edited to add, I found this in a recent post by Madcow:



This seems like sound advice, but would you advocate eventually replacing smith back squats entirely, rather than just "factoring its impact"? (At least, until I convince them to spring for a power rack, hehe). And in the meantime, would you advocate continuing to use the smith machine while training the 5x5?

Fuck - why is it that everyone's gym doesn't have a rack. I've seen this like 3 times this week. I imagine you don't have a rack to take front squats from either? It's kind of like not having a barbell or weights - makes it really tough because rigging up something to use like pails of rock and an axel is almost impossible. Personally, I'd scour for a cheap set of these: http://www.musclemaxx.net/squat_stand.htm and give them to the gym. Be done with it or take the cash and try a different gym. Hell, you can find some cheap sets for home too and benches with squat racks built in for $200ish - used probably even below 100. That, a bar and some weight and you are rolling.

If you have a rack to take the front squat from then great. It's going to take time to learn the movement though. I'm guessing you've never squatted at all. The front squat is tough to learn alone and just about everyone botches it because they don't know how to hold the bar - there's a front/back squat thread on the forum right now. Give it a read. Try to phase in the fronts while continuing with the smith. Get them in gradually and work on your technique. If you have to clean the weight, go ahead and try but that's a learning curve all on it's own.

Anyway. You need to be able to squat. It's just crucial. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm dumping on you but so many people have totally inadequate facilities and there's nothing I can do. This isn't a fufu program. It's real training and you need at least the basics. It's cheap to set up right in your home if you want. Gyms are cheap too but there's only so much I can do if you can't do the basic movements. This program is based on squatting. Squatting is fundemental to increasing strength and size. Better to not bench than not squat.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

MR Pink said:
Madcow,

I don't know if this question has been asked before (I'm only at page 15 of this thread and want to start monday with this routine)

For the alternative deload/intensity phase you wrote the following:


Alternative Deload/Intensity:
This is really the one that most people should be doing. If you don't handle the other correctly you can blow your program but I didn't want to switch it and confuse people.

Week 5 and on switch to 3x3 and drop the Friday workout altogether. Week 5 weights are the same as the final week of volume. Over the next 2-3 weeks increase increase the weight workout to workout if you get all 9 reps. If you don't get all the reps, week the weight constant. You'll likely be able to move straight back into another volume phase after this is complete.

Monday:
Oly squats: 3x3
Bench: 3x3
Rows: 3x3

Wednesday (or move this workout to Thursday if you'd like)
Light Oly Squats (70% of monday): 3x3
Deadlifts: 3x3
Military Press: 3x3
Chins:3x3


My question: Do I only have to do the 3x3 throughout this phase or are there still 1x3 days as given in your core discription? This question is regarding the intensity phase not the deloading phase

Use the above. You do it in the deload week (week 5) and then for another 2-3 weeks (weeks 6 and 7 - week 8 if you wish). The 1x3 and 3x per week stuff is an entirely different way of handling the next phase. I'll likely redo my description and shift that to the bottom to alleviate confusion.
MR Pink said:
Other questions:

1.If I can't do 5x5 pull ups and only be able to hit 5 reps the first 3 sets...should I do the pull ups with a little help from a spotter or finish the last 2 sets on a lat pull down machine

2. Do you lock out your elbows with the military's?

3. And are the pr's you set in weeks 3 and 4 based on your 1 rm (the one you had before this routine) or on the 5x5 you could do before this routine?

Thanks

1. Not really important. Do the first few free, and try to get whatever you can. If it's abysmal - use the pulldown if it's a couple reps, fine.

2. Sometimes :). I happen to like locking out heavy weight overhead. Driving your head forward and having he weight centered feels powerful. The idea of keeping constant tension on the muscles is pretty overrated. You put the deadlift back every rep - still a phenomenal mass builder. Most people will lock out their heavy squats - still works. This is minutia stuff and unmeasurable.

3. PRs are for 1x5 and 5x5 before the program. Be flexible in your planning and weights the first time. Start conservatively, plan it out but keep a critical eye on the upcomming weeks. A lot of people aren't used to this and tend to get stronger throughout the first phase so their targets move. Nothing wrong with taking 5 or 6 weeks and starting lighter. Just make sure you are pounding at your best the final 2 weeks and don't build up too fast before hand.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Madcow2 said:
Tough one. I just have no reference for you to build something - it's kind of impossible to coach over the internet without very close communication and even then it's rolling dice. I'd probably take it easy for a while. I think the last time you finished you were still working hard, did a lot of high reps, and then hit maxes which may have thrown your recovery before beginning again - sort of starting off in a ditch so to speak.

Maybe do some higher rep training for a period. Depending on how you feel at the very end take at least 1-2 light weeks. Maybe figure out weak points in your lifts or something you believe to be lagging. Work on that. I'd set aside 4 weeks and if you are progressing and happy then continue. Make sure the first 2 are light if you are using that 3x per week intensity phase. Hell, maybe take the first week completely off if you feel like it. You've been training hard for a while.

Anyway, I'm rambling:
1) Light 1-2 weeks, maybe first week off
2) Do some higher rep work for a while
3) Work on targeted assistance lifts and lifts that you like but haven't been able to do under the 5x5
4) Set aside at least 4 weeks. Probably 6 with the first two light. Maybe 8 and make it a whole training cycle with 2-3 light/deload 2 acclimation 2 heavy load and 2 deload. With two deload weeks on the end you should be fresh again but play it by ear.
5) Maybe look at HST and how they do their high rep work, If you are recovered enough look at the DFHT stuff. Just get some ideas.
6) Have fun and enjoy.

Not really an answer but hopefully enough ideas to get you started. I can't really tell you for volume and frequency but slash both. 2x per week at the most (maybe try that week off if you are really beat up), this time I wouldn't push high intensity. Just chill and lower everything and get some recovery for a week or so.


sounds good, i was thinking... i talked to this guy at my gym a few times, he reads alot of simmons, bill star and other powerlifting/strongmen material, and i wanna train more like that.

i like the 5x5 layout, but i also wanna work on speed with chains and bands.
i have a squat rack, flat/incline bench, pully system and tons of dumbbells/paltes in my garage.. all the stuff i need. so, i can do all that work in my garage.

can i switch between a 5x5 routine and a west side barbell routine, with little cycles in between? ive done both before, and liked them alot.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

TheOak84 said:
sounds good, i was thinking... i talked to this guy at my gym a few times, he reads alot of simmons, bill star and other powerlifting/strongmen material, and i wanna train more like that.

i like the 5x5 layout, but i also wanna work on speed with chains and bands.
i have a squat rack, flat/incline bench, pully system and tons of dumbbells/paltes in my garage.. all the stuff i need. so, i can do all that work in my garage.

can i switch between a 5x5 routine and a west side barbell routine, with little cycles in between? ive done both before, and liked them alot.
Absolutely. Designing a program or macroscycle is all about what it is that you want to do with your training. WSB is great. You can add DE/chains/bands and such to the 5x5 also. You can also rotate in special exercises and some such. It's really just a template. Just plan out say 6 months and try to address your needs over that time frame using anything whether that's WSB, BS 5x5, you could even try DFST (check out the Animalmass programs sticky on Meso). Just build it out and alter it as needed while you work through
 
All of this talk about taking week-offs and stuff is only for the dual-factor, right? I'd like to be able to stick with just doing the single-factor without changing my routine for quite a while. Also, in a post before I was posting about how my top set for my bench is my absolute MAX for that amount of reps. Monday doing it for 5 reps was my 5-rep max, and yesterday my set of 3 was my absolutely 3-rep max. How will I know if I should increase the weights on bench for next week?
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

siamesedream said:
All of this talk about taking week-offs and stuff is only for the dual-factor, right? I'd like to be able to stick with just doing the single-factor without changing my routine for quite a while. Also, in a post before I was posting about how my top set for my bench is my absolute MAX for that amount of reps. Monday doing it for 5 reps was my 5-rep max, and yesterday my set of 3 was my absolutely 3-rep max. How will I know if I should increase the weights on bench for next week?

You don't do a 3 rep max on Friday per say. It's a % based on Monday's top set. Sometimes it might be a max but not every week.

* On Friday, the first four sets are the same as they were on Monday. The fifth set, done for three reps, should be a jump of about 2.5% over what you did for your fifth set on Monday. As you become more experienced with the system, you can experiment with the weight you use on this triple. This should NOT be a PR triple attempt every week. In fact, the goal is to come back the following Monday and get the same weight for 5 reps that you got for 3 reps the Friday before. To avoid missing reps, pick weights carefully. Take it easy the first few weeks, and don’t over do it. After the big triple, drop back to the weight you used for your 3rd set and try to get eight reps.
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Madcow2 said:
You don't do a 3 rep max on Friday per say. It's a % based on Monday's top set. Sometimes it might be a max but not every week.





Right, but last week was my first week on the 5x5 and I just so happened to choose a weight-scheme for my benching that led up to my 5-rep max on Monday and my 3-rep max on Friday. I know it's not supposed to be a max every week, but I was asking if I should still try to increase it anyways since I'm definitely doing a 5-pound increase on all other lifts, but my bench is the only one that ended up with a max for the top set.
 
Madcow,

for the 5x5 This is my progression schedule:

wk1 80% wk2 85% wk3 90% wk4 95%

for the 1x5 wk1 90% wk2 95% wk3 100% wk4 105%

wk5 same as wk4

wk6 100% wk7 105% wk8 110% wk9 115%

Is this a good progression schedule based on my current 5RM or should I hit a PR in week 4 (105% instead of 95%)? I have written down the weights for myself based on the % btw. And I know I can adjust this schedule based on my results

Thanks
 
Madcow I finished my second cycle of 5x5 and would like to try something else. Do you have any other routines that are like 5x5 for strength and size?
 
Hello im running the novice lifter program right now and im doing deadlifts instead of High pulls. Is it ok to add 3 sets of Barbell Upright Row on wednesday(light day) to give my shoulders some workout?
 
IronPL said:
Madcow I finished my second cycle of 5x5 and would like to try something else. Do you have any other routines that are like 5x5 for strength and size?
In part I of the table of contents of this thread, there's a link call "beyond the 5x5: planning our training cycles" that should be helpful
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I'm in the deload phase right now, and have understood everything up to this point(Thanks Madcow!!), but now I think I've confused myself a little.

Quick question to get clarification:

Take my squats for example:

My week 4 5X5 was at 290 lbs., so my week 5 (deloading) 3X3 poundages would be the same...290 lbs. I know this.

Now... would my Week 6 3X3 weights increase from the 290 (say...to 295 or 300) or would I drop the poundages a little so that I can ramp up and hit a new 3X3 record in week 8 (e.g. start at 275 lbs.)?

I hope I made a little sense....

BTW...I'm using the alternate deloading / intensity phase guidelines.

Thanks in advance.

-Perm
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

big perm said:
I'm in the deload phase right now, and have understood everything up to this point(Thanks Madcow!!), but now I think I've confused myself a little.

Quick question to get clarification:

Take my squats for example:

My week 4 5X5 was at 290 lbs., so my week 5 (deloading) 3X3 poundages would be the same...290 lbs. I know this.

Now... would my Week 6 3X3 weights increase from the 290 (say...to 295 or 300) or would I drop the poundages a little so that I can ramp up and hit a new 3X3 record in week 8 (e.g. start at 275 lbs.)?

I hope I made a little sense....

BTW...I'm using the alternate deloading / intensity phase guidelines.

Thanks in advance.

-Perm
Increase every week after week5 ends. week6 should be heavier than week5. Don't jump overmuch since you should be hitting records in week8.

You should find that although week6 is heavier it is not really much harder than week5 since you'll have done quite a lot of recovery with the week5 deloading.

Actually, I've just seen the "alternate deloading / intensity". If you're doing the 2x per week option then just keep increasing the weight so long as you get all 9 reps. Only keep this up for about 3 weeks and then consider the program over.
 
id say try to jump 10 pounds from week 5-6, 20 pounds from week 6-7 (depending on how hard it was the week before)
 
Is there any reason to even stop doing the 5x5? I mean, if someone just finished the dual-factor program and they want to wait a few weeks before doing it again, couldn't they just switch to the single-factor and wait a few weeks before beginning the dual again and thus make the 5x5 a way of life rather than something to include every now and then?
 
siamesedream said:
Is there any reason to even stop doing the 5x5? I mean, if someone just finished the dual-factor program and they want to wait a few weeks before doing it again, couldn't they just switch to the single-factor and wait a few weeks before beginning the dual again and thus make the 5x5 a way of life rather than something to include every now and then?
At some point you'd want to change the workload, use different exercises, change the set/rep scheme, address sticking points/weaknesses/etc. If I understand madcow correctly (hopefully he'll chime in if I'm way off), he's a big fan of the dual factor 5x5 because:

-for intermediates it's a good catch-all in terms of the total workload
-it all about the compound lifts which is what just about everyone should focus on regardless of experience
-it serves as the beginning of structured training (plotting out cycles based on need/goals) and therefore is an excellent start to learning more about training art/science vs. the stuff you read in mags, hear at the gym, and other questionable info sources

There's a lot more to training than the 5x5, and mc has stated this on numerouos occasions. It's just an excellent place to start for tons of people b/c most are used to working out but not while implementing dual-factor theory or setting up training cycles. Hope that helps. Maybe some others can explain better but that's basically the way I understand it.
 
You can run it two or three times back-to-back if you wish but, unless you're a complete hermit, you'll eventually feel the need to try other things. As Guinness5.0 mentions, you'll notice that some assistance work here and there might be needed or maybe you even want a month to consolidate your gains and spend a while recovering or doing some speed work or higher-rep work in the 8-10 range or even more.

So long as you acquire the knowedge behind the 5x5, it's done its job.
 
siamesedream said:
On benching on Mondays, could I possibly add in a 6th set of 3 using the same weight I used for my 5th set?
Of course you could but why would you want to? Maybe you'd be better served by adding a little more to one or more of the 5 scheduled sets. That's more likely to add to the overall loading effect than throwing in an extra set of 3. If you're still feeling chipper try working out a little faster.
 
Well, it's not that I'm feeling a ton of energy or anything like that. I'm on my 3rd week of the single-factor program and seem to have missed the strength gain that I was planning on having this week and am a little upset. On benching, my top set is my absolute 5-rep max, and between sets 2 and 3, 3 and 4, and 4 and 5, I lock out and hold the bar for anywhere from 5-15 seconds. Another problem could be the fact that I'm on a caloric deficit and have the main goal of losing fat right now, and I have 40 or 50 pounds of fat to lose before I'm at the place I want to be at, so strength gain is secondary but I'm still willing to do anything I possibly can to try to up my lifts since they're so incredibly pathetic.

Aren't people supposed to up their lifts 5-10 pounds every week on the 5x5? I've only been upping by 5 and this is only my 3rd week yet I died bench-pressing today. My last rep on my top set took around 5-10 seconds of pushing with everything I had to actually get it up. Even though I'm a novice lifter, I start to wonder if I'd be better suited doing a more intense version of the 5x5 than the single-factor one posted on the main page of this thread.

I'll upload my current routine for this week so someone can critique it or something or recommend anything. I'll also upload my food log for last week so anyone can tell me if my food intake is a problem when trying to gain strength since my main goal is fat loss.
 
What about cluster training? I've heard good things about it. If anything, I'd like to use it on bench pressing. Could I do 5x5 cluster training with bench pressing and keep everything else the same, or could I cluster train with all 3 major lifts or something?
 
siamesedream said:
I'll upload my current routine for this week so someone can critique it or something or recommend anything. I'll also upload my food log for last week so anyone can tell me if my food intake is a problem when trying to gain strength since my main goal is fat loss.
I just looked at your log and I think you're doing too much extra stuff. Toss the declines, close-grip, etc. and you'll get stronger faster. Also, I personally HATE upright rows b/c they make my shoulders hurt if done with anything close to challenging weights.
 
Well, I added in the declines and close-grip because I can't do enough dips to make a good workout of it yet and couldn't think of any other good substitute besides breaking it down into decline and close-grip benching.
 
siamesedream said:
Well, I added in the declines and close-grip because I can't do enough dips to make a good workout of it yet and couldn't think of any other good substitute besides breaking it down into decline and close-grip benching.
That's a reasonable conclusion, but IMO it's still too much extra. Do what dips you can, trying to improve a bit week to week. Those upright rows will hurt your bench progress IMHO, regardless of whether or not they bother your shoulders like they do mine- there's plenty of shoulder work in the program as laid out.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
That's a reasonable conclusion, but IMO it's still too much extra. Do what dips you can, trying to improve a bit week to week. Those upright rows will hurt your bench progress IMHO, regardless of whether or not they bother your shoulders like they do mine- there's plenty of shoulder work in the program as laid out.



Really? Upright rowing will hurt my bench? Alright, I'll cut them out. Also, on my food log, is it unreasonable to have a goal of a 5-pound increase each week on all lifts eating as little calories as I am? My caloric intake is around the 2000 mark every day and I only eat carbs immediately after working out to try to neutralize cortisol.
 
siamesedream said:
Really? Upright rowing will hurt my bench? Alright, I'll cut them out. Also, on my food log, is it unreasonable to have a goal of a 5-pound increase each week on all lifts eating as little calories as I am? My caloric intake is around the 2000 mark every day and I only eat carbs immediately after working out to try to neutralize cortisol.
THat one i'm not so sure about, but I tend to believe that if you're fairly overweight and new to lifting, you'll get strong unless you downright starve yourself. 2k a day is pretty damn low though. What are your stats again (ht/wt/bf%)?
 
"2k a day is pretty damn low though."



Yeah, like I said, my main goal is to drop weight. I eat more than 2k on Friday and Saturday only though to try to help my strength increase over the weekend. But yeah, 2k is really low for me and I'm losing weight which is my main goal, but if strength increase is possible I'll do any possible thing I can while cutting to do it.


My stats:

Ht: 5'10
Wt: 207 pounds
BF: 23-25%
 
If it's working and you don't feel like #### then keep doing it. Strength can definitely be improved while losing fat, especially for newbs. Once you're REALLY strong losing fat will kill some strength, but for now you'll improve no doubt :)

It wouldn't be bad IMHO to occasionally do a couple weeks of more "normal" eating just for the sake of your metabolism. Plus if you composition-shift by a signifcant degree you'll NEED extra cals to hang on to muscle.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
If it's working and you don't feel like #### then keep doing it. Strength can definitely be improved while losing fat, especially for newbs. Once you're REALLY strong losing fat will kill some strength, but for now you'll improve no doubt :)

It wouldn't be bad IMHO to occasionally do a couple weeks of more "normal" eating just for the sake of your metabolism. Plus if you composition-shift by a signifcant degree you'll NEED extra cals to hang on to muscle.




Oh yeah, I feel great and fine. My legs have the tendency to be sore though as I've never deadlifted or squatted before this program. As a matter of fact, I always feel like I'm not doing enough which is one of the main reasons why I had so many other exercises on my list to do. Before I started the 5x5, I lifted weights 6 days a week on a routine that took around 3 hours to do (which I now know I was training in the worst possible way and severely overtraining everything on my body) every lifting day so I'm used to being entirely and completely drained by the end and even during a workout session. I just got back from my 5x5 today, and I noticed that something is incredibly odd with me. On incline bench, I worked up to 2 sets of 145x5 and I kept the weight going constantly and accelerating throughout every single repetition without pause or rest, yet, for some reason, on flat bench, I can't do 185x5 for one set without locking-out and pausing for 3-10 seconds in between each rep. That doesn't make any sense since my incline should only be 70-80% of what my flat-bench is. Strange.....

Anyways, since you said I should cut out a few other exercises I'm doing, I made a list for next week that involves some cluster training with bench on Friday and the entire routine has been modified. Let me know if there's anything wrong with it. Here it is:
 
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Alright, I revised it again. One question, I've decided I'm not going to increase my bench next week since my heaviest set of 3 today required assistance from my spotter (only using 2 fingers, though) on my last rep. Also, I'm confident that I chose a top set too high to begin with on bench since I have to lock-out for 3-10 seconds in between each rep to do it. I'm going to increase everything else as that won't be a problem for next week, but not bench press. So, my question is, will this have some kind of effect on my benching gains? Some guy in another thread said that strength gain comes from increasing your weights every week, so if I back-off on the weights on bench-press for a week or 2, will this cause me to plateau?


Here's my new plan, also:
 
Another thing, I recently dropped a few grand on a top-of-the line cardio bike and it just came in the mail and I'll be doing HIIT on the thing after weightlifting at the gym. Will HIIT on a cardio bike overtrain my legs? If I am to do them immediately after lifting and not do them on days off, it should allow my legs enough time to recover, correct?
 
siamesedream said:
Another thing, I recently dropped a few grand on a top-of-the line cardio bike and it just came in the mail and I'll be doing HIIT on the thing after weightlifting at the gym. Will HIIT on a cardio bike overtrain my legs? If I am to do them immediately after lifting and not do them on days off, it should allow my legs enough time to recover, correct?
What tiem of day do you lift? Many on this site are fans of A.M. cardio on an empty stomach, then lifting later. With cardio equipment in your house I would think that would be a great option. I wouldn't worry about overtraining as long as you keep it reasonable- cardio really isn't all that taxing if it's moderate. It's jsut gonna burn a few extra cals and help your heart.

Not that it matters much but you may want to start your own journal on here. The journals seem to get good responses from more than just one person :)
 
Guinness5.0 said:
What tiem of day do you lift? Many on this site are fans of A.M. cardio on an empty stomach, then lifting later. With cardio equipment in your house I would think that would be a great option. I wouldn't worry about overtraining as long as you keep it reasonable- cardio really isn't all that taxing if it's moderate. It's jsut gonna burn a few extra cals and help your heart.

Not that it matters much but you may want to start your own journal on here. The journals seem to get good responses from more than just one person :)



I generally lift around 3:00PM, but sometimes go around 5:00PM. I would definitely be willing to do AM cardio on an empty stomach, and it's good to know that it shouldn't overtrain my legs. Also, I think I will start my own journal on here since I keep my own journal on my PC and could just upload my journal when I finish writing it after every workout.


Also, from my post above my last one, will keeping my bench weight the same cause me to plateau? I started off too high on bench press when I began the program 3 weeks ago and have been struggling like crazy with it every time I do my top set. All other major lifts have been going great and a 5-pound increase each week is happening, but I'm going to keep my bench weight the same as it was last week for this week as well as maybe next depending on how it goes this week. This won't cause my benching progress to halt, will it? Some other guy said in a thread that strength gain comes from upping weights consistently, but I really won't be able to up it this week since Friday's workout required help from my spotter on my last rep on benching.
 
Maybe this week you'll get it without your spotter. Progressive overload is what drives growth but that can come from doing slightly better at a high weight as well as from doing the same with an increasing weight. It's not ideal at all to start too high on any of the exercises but the danger is typically that you overwork yourself. Not much you can do about it at this stage except continue trying to make some kind of progression. If you had gone completely over the top with it then I'd suggest a bit of back-peddling but I think you'll be ok from what you wrote.
 
Blut Wump said:
Maybe this week you'll get it without your spotter. Progressive overload is what drives growth but that can come from doing slightly better at a high weight as well as from doing the same with an increasing weight. It's not ideal at all to start too high on any of the exercises but the danger is typically that you overwork yourself. Not much you can do about it at this stage except continue trying to make some kind of progression. If you had gone completely over the top with it then I'd suggest a bit of back-peddling but I think you'll be ok from what you wrote.



So should I increase or should I keep it the same? The thing is, every top set on my bench that I've been doing has required me to lock-out with my elbows for 3-10 seconds in between reps in order to gain the strength to push it up again until I get 5 reps. Since, on Friday, I couldn't do it without my spotter for 3, I doubt I'll be able to do it for 5 tomorrow but if increasing weights is absolutely necessary, I'll do it. However, if I can hold off on the current weight I'm doing until I can pump out 5 reps without having to lock-out and rest, I'd be willing to do that too.
 
My advice would be to try it again and see what happens. If it goes better than before, it's progress so keep going forward with ti. If it stalls/feels the same/gets worse. you would probaly want to back off to a weight that you'll get for sure and start working back up.

I wish MC was here. We're doing the best we can w/out him though.
 
Big props to guinness5.0 for doing a great job of holding down the fort while mc is away. I give him K when I can and hope others are offering the same encouragement.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
My advice would be to try it again and see what happens. If it goes better than before, it's progress so keep going forward with ti. If it stalls/feels the same/gets worse. you would probaly want to back off to a weight that you'll get for sure and start working back up.

I wish MC was here. We're doing the best we can w/out him though.




Alright, I'll try to push what I pushed last week for all 5 reps without pausing in between reps and see what happens and, if I can, I'll increase next week.


On another note, yeah, thanks a ton for helping me out with this and answering all my stupid questions. That goes for everyone that is helping everyone here out since newbs like me have no idea what we're doing.
 
siamesedream said:
Alright, I'll try to push what I pushed last week for all 5 reps without pausing in between reps and see what happens and, if I can, I'll increase next week.


On another note, yeah, thanks a ton for helping me out with this and answering all my stupid questions. That goes for everyone that is helping everyone here out since newbs like me have no idea what we're doing.
They're not stupid questions. Besides, I bet there are plenty of people reading this forum who don't post that have the same q's you do.

And you're welcome :)
 
Wow, this past week was actually fantastic in terms of progress since I held off on increasing my bench this week. I actually did 185x5 yesterday while keeping the bar moving at a constant rate without pausing or resting in between reps (this felt impossible to do last week). I've decided to adopt a different mentality and just simply increase the weight whenever I'm able to properly do the top set of 5 on each lift and, if I'm not able to do a full 5 reps on the top set of the increase, I'll just stick with it until I'm able to do it 5 full times without pausing or resting in between reps. Also, I changed my program to take a few things out since you suggested that I might be overtraining, and I added in close-grip benching on Monday and Friday to hit my triceps hard and threw in curls only on Wednesday. I also decided to add in a last set to failure -usually 2 or 3 reps- of whatever top set I can't push 5 full times. How's my new plan?
 
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Looks pretty good. Do you have areverse hyper at your gym? The program cllas for those too. What's your sets/reps like on the assistance stuff (close grips, declines, curls, not abs)? 3x8 si what teh program calls for.

Congrats on the progress BTW :). I think you've hit a milestone by slowing down a tad.
 
Guinness5.0 said:
Looks pretty good. Do you have areverse hyper at your gym? The program cllas for those too. What's your sets/reps like on the assistance stuff (close grips, declines, curls, not abs)? 3x8 si what teh program calls for.

Congrats on the progress BTW :). I think you've hit a milestone by slowing down a tad.



Thanks for the congrats! Tomorrow starts my 5th week on the program and then next week I'll be travelling all week so I'll have to take a week off. Shouldn't be too big of a deal, though. If anything, it'll just allow me some time to fully recover from all these new lifts I'm doing but I'll be going right back to the program as soon as I get back from travelling.

As for the reverse hypers, I don't remember seeing a setup for them at the gym but I'll look tomorrow to make sure. If I don't have one, what should I sub for them? As for my assistance stuff, I was doing 3 sets of 10, 7, and 5 (basically just going to failure), but I'll start doing 3 sets of 8 as of tomorrow since now I know I should be doing them that way.

Also, how long do you think I can stick with this program? I'd like to stick with it as long as I'm able to keep making gains on it which should be quite a lengthy amount of time since my lifts are all so crappy. So, since I'll be forced to take a week off next week (week of the 29th, I mean), should I just cycle like that and do 5 weeks on and 1 week off? Or maybe 8 weeks on and one week off? Or possibly every week on and no weeks off (I'd actually prefer this the most but I'm trying to get my mind and my habits used to the concept of overtraining and cycling).
 
siamesedream said:
Also, how long do you think I can stick with this program? I'd like to stick with it as long as I'm able to keep making gains on it which should be quite a lengthy amount of time since my lifts are all so crappy. So, since I'll be forced to take a week off next week (week of the 29th, I mean), should I just cycle like that and do 5 weeks on and 1 week off? Or maybe 8 weeks on and one week off? Or possibly every week on and no weeks off (I'd actually prefer this the most but I'm trying to get my mind and my habits used to the concept of overtraining and cycling).
The idea is to stick with it for as long as it works, then to implement dual-factor training. IMHO you'll know to change when it stalls out for a while (a couple weeks or more of little/no progress I would guess).

I'm just guessing but I would think you wouldn't really want to cycle this, but the odd week off here and there wouldn't hurt at all.
 
Ok, ive done a run through the 5x5 before but now on my second run I have to do front squats.

Im putting together a home gym (sick of idiots at YMCA) and have to accomadate. So obviously im gonna have to go alot lighter because cleaning the wieght can be a bitch.

I know MC2 strongly advises substituting anything for the back squat but I have no choice right now.

Has anyone done this??? How were the results???

BTW I think it'll be fun for me since ive never really done front squats before. Itll add some flavor to my 2nd run.
 
Someone on here was using deads in place of squats for loading purposes- I think it was hunteruk. You're going to have a tough time getting the loading right if you replace backs with fronts across the board.
 
Ok here's my deal. I'm in week 8 of the 5X5 Madcow style.

Today, while doing Rows (90 degree style, weight unloaded each rep) I decided to jump from what was supposed to be 215 lbs. up to 225 lbs.

I got all 9 reps, but for the first time while doing these rows I felt as if I "cheated" just a tad. Nothing too bad, just a little body sway to get the rep.

Now here's where I want your opinion....next week, should I keep the weight the same and try to be 100% strict in my form or should I bump it up another 5 or 10 pounds and just go for it?

Thanks in advance.

-Perm
 
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

JL_204 said:
You have to kind of be your own coach with this.

If you think you can do it then go ahead, your almost done anyway.
Exactly. Go for it and set yourself a new PR.

If you're in week9 you must be running the 3x per week intensity phase. If you start to feel worn-out or generally loaded up again don't balk at taking an extra rest day at any time from now until the end.
 
I got my ass demolished in the gym today. Today ends the 4th week of the single-factor for me, and I wasn't able to row for 2 reps what I did for 5 on Monday. I was totally fucking drained today and I had to cut out my close-grip benching. Since I'm forced to take a week off next week due to travelling, I think it'll do me a ton of good. My diet is so low-calorie though that it may a huge contribution to me feeling like a complete bum today.
Reading journals and everything on here and descriptions of the 5x5, it seems as though one of the most important factors is eating with caloric-excess, as even madcow says himself. With my main goal of losing 50 pounds of fat but also getting myself to a nice, muscular body, I hope this 5x5 allows me to meet that goal. I'd like to be doing more cardio on my cardio bike but my legs get demolished when doing HIIT while also squatting as much as I am. I wasn't able to increase my bench today, so I get discouraged and need something to blame and hope it's my diet since I'm kicking my own ass as hard as I possibly can. Is it even possible for me to expect to make hulking gains or to gain muscle while I still have such a large amount of fat to lose (21-24% bodyfat)? I suppose I'm talking out of my ass and just need some advice since I feel like a total waste right now.
 
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