NeW StYlE - WuT u ThInK?

Madcow2 said:

I like it better but I only see the change to squats. You could also take the arm work and do higher reps like 3x8-10 if you wanted, it's fluff for the most part and IMO does more to maximize the current size of the arm than drive long term progress of arm development (usually the compound lifts handle this). That pattern is still incline/military/flat M/W/F and there's no account for how volume/intensity will be utilized - and in all honesty, that's the major driver of success.

Before you start, you want to have a weight progression planned out as well as a method of backing-off/deloading to recovery before you hit it again. As a rule athletes can handle heavy concentrated loading for 1-3 weeks. Most are around 10-14 days. There are world level lifters who can't load for 3 weeks so it's not a contest but more determining how your body works best. So if you did 4-6 weeks the first series would be weight progression and acclimation (if using 6 weeks start light) while the final 2 would be about as heavy as you can manage or what I term 'records' should you have a relevant previous best (alternatively you can test the lifts beforehand to determine the range but if this workout/exercises are new you might find them move up by the time you get there).

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Yeah. I was going to do the "ramp up intesity" method for a lack of better description. I was gonna do 5-6 weeks, then one week of no weight training whatsoever.

Kinda like needsizes 5x5 method. Same principle. Start off with a weight that light (well not really, but you know what I mean) and do the reps slow and extremely controlled and really focus on feeling it in the muscle. Then start to add the pounds as the routine goes on.

psychedout said:

Yeah. I was going to do the "ramp up intesity" method for a lack of better description. I was gonna do 5-6 weeks, then one week of no weight training whatsoever.

Kinda like needsizes 5x5 method. Same principle. Start off with a weight that light (well not really, but you know what I mean) and do the reps slow and extremely controlled and really focus on feeling it in the muscle. Then start to add the pounds as the routine goes on.

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So a few things:

1) That's a pretty crude type of loading/deloading, you can make it a lot more efficient (effective) by modeling after the Bill Starr 5x5 (which is a big reason I use it as an example because it's an easy good model - a more advanced model of dual factor training is the Smolov squat program that I posted the other day but it is not essential that one use anything more than basic loading/deloading). Alternatively use the basics that I talked about above in working backward from your records. I was illustrating before the reasons why needsize's program was effective for people and that it was similar to a dual factor methodology but I do not believe it to be optimal. When deloading, it is rarely if ever optimal to totally slash training all together. A very good and common way is to drastically decrease volume (maybe cut frequency in some cases) but keep intensity high. The only time you see longer periods of zero training is immediately preceding an important event/contest where one needs to take deloading to an extreme in order to peak for the event. Even these periods rarely if ever entail full weeks of zero training.

2) Slow or super slow style training can have it's uses in some capacities but for consistently stimulating muscle growth, strengh, or performance increases it's really not something you want to be doing or focusing on. The jist of this is that muscles exist to perform work by generating force. Work = Force X Distance where Force = Mass X Acceleration. Work is closely related to volume in that a proxy for distance is reps X sets as one is moving through a range of motion repeatedly. That leaves Force. Obviously Mass is equivalent to the amount of weight being used which is being increased over the training cycle. Notice the multiplications sign attaching Acceleration to mass - this says an unbelievable amount about how acceleration plays into the generation of force and the stimulation of a muscle. Think about what you are doing when you lift a weight at a constant pace - you are actually exerting force to begin the inertia and then basically monitoring force by restricting or enhancing it as needed to keep the bar moving at a given pace. Basically, you are not generating maximal force throughout the range of motion - you are doing just enough to keep it moving at pace. To maximize the force generating stimulus you are supplying to the muscle consider performing a rep by exerting force to begin the inertia and then continuously applying maximal force to the bar to accelerate it throughout the range of motion (obviously the weight has to be reasonable so you don't throw the thing). Similar to a rower in crew, he doesn't put the oar in the water get it moving and then just move it at a constant pace. He continues to pull at maximum force and this accelerates the oar through the water. This is optimal force output and it will make a massive difference in your training success. Even though the Force equation is the classic Newton's 2nd law the majority of people ignore the 2nd component, acceleration, and focus only on mass (which many don't even systematically control for along with the volume of work). Acceleration has a multiplicative effect on mass and this greatly affects the quality of the stimulus.

I'm not talking about jerking the weight but merely applying smooth acceleration. Getting the feel by using bands similar to westside training is a good example. To keep the bar moving at a constant pace when using bands it is necessary to continuously accelerate tha bar as a rubber band does not resist in a linear fashion but closer to exponential (probably not 100% accurate but the first little bit of stretch is magnitudes less intensive than the final increment and not 1:1 proportional to the distance the band is stretched). This is why Westside uses bands but even though they are training to increase their 1RM whereas BBers train for size they are using the same stimulus to increase force on a muscle - they just target different ranges of optimal work output (1RM vs. the higher range where hypertrophy is stimulated).

so with the program Psychedout has outlined....if your 5X5 squat max was 315 you would start the program with a weight significantly lower on the first week and work your way up so you would be breaking records in weeks 5-6 (using 335 in week 6)....then deload...start your second cycle with slightly higher poundages that you began the first cycle with?

Yeah, that would probably work. So much of it depends on an individual's tolerances though but in general judging by the workout it's probably about right for most people. If you are doing 6 weeks you need to start pretty damn light to where you should be moving through the first few weeks at an easy clip. One thing is you don't want to start too heavy because it kills it so you might want to hit 305 on week 5 and 325 on week 6 depending on how week 5 went. If you fail on week 5 keep the weight the same. If you have a relevant max and are used to this type of training then you might set 300 for week 4, 325 for week 5, and 335 for week 6 as an example (you can adjust week to week based upon the previous week too). I also wouldn't do this twice a week as this will be too much for most people in the squat. You can setup 5x5 on one day and 1x5 on the second where you are pyramiding through 5 sets to get the volume but hitting a single set of 5 with top weight. Obviously these records and weight progressions are independent of each other as you can do more for 1x5 than 5x5.

I didn't go into this before since we've had a lot of other stuff on the plate and he doesn't intend to work hard on his legs so I assume the squat is additive to volume but not a major driver for him as he likely won't be pushing records. But for others, this is important.

EDIT: you know what, his program has moved around a bit so some of the stuff I attribute to it above is not valid to his most recent example. I really suggest just running the 5x5 as detailed in this thread http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215 and making life easier on yourself. The two designers are two of the greatest strength coaches to walk the planet. There is nothing I nor anyone else can really change to make it better except to tailer the loading/deloading to the tolerances of an individual athlete but I'd need a reference first and most people don't have relevantly applicable training and this program tends to hit the sweet spot for most everyone anyway. There's really no way to eek any more gains from it. It looks and is very simple but it is absolutely comprehensive, demanding, and maximally effective. It's just an ultra effective proven program that's been in use for almost 30 years and a very easy to understand example of dual factor theory. Basically, ideal for BBers looking to increase muscle mass or general athletes bulking (powercleans and high pulls can be substituted into the routine easily for athletes requiring increases in explosive power).

MC - What would you recommend one do if they have a job starting this Monday, that requires four hours of straight physical labor (no breaks, literally), lifting 40-70 lb. boxes and shifting them, sorting them, moving them, at a pace of about 500 boxes per hour, and who just started the 5x5 routine this week?

Obviously, we're talking about me. So now, I started the routine Monday, and just worked out an hour ago, then it dawned on me - I start working at UPS come Monday. What should I do? It's definitely going to be a bitch working four hours, for five nights a week, while trying to bulk and do this routine. At the same time, I have little else to do, so I could probably get lots of sleep and food. I already take in 20x my bodyweight in calories or so, and can easily cram more at this point.

You're lifting 40-70lbs at a rate of 500 boxes per hour? That seems abit extreme man.

I worked a pretty hard job where I had to fill bags with 5/8" gravel from a hopper, seal them and then pick them up, walk a couple feet and stack them on a pallet, 26 bags per pallet. Each bag weighed 115-135lbs. In 8 hours the most I ever did was 9 pallets and that was a pretty hard day. That's 234 bags, and a total weight moved of roughly 26,910-31,590lbs per 8 hour shift.

That's a pretty hard days work considering it's like carrying a sandbag each time.

At your job, 40-70lbs per box, 500 per hour, in 4 hours that's 80,000-140,000lbs in "4" hours. Do you actually have to bend down and pick these boxes up, or grab from one spot and twist to another to set it down or what? I just find it hard to believe you could pick that many boxes up in 4 hours at that pace. 500 boxes per hour equals 8.3 boxes per minute, 1 40-70lbs box every 7.5 seconds.

That job must suck. So do you actually have to lift each of these boxes every time? I'm not trying to imply that you're fibbing about your job. It's just that's an "ASSLOAD" of work in 4 hours man.

The worst thing that can happen is you have to scale back. I'm assuming you aren't going to totally quit working out until you get accustomed to the workload. It isn't ideal since you are introducing two loads simultaneously (unless you quit another one) but you have to do something so give it a shot. Just eat and rest a lot.

Yeah, the first 6-9 months of the job sucks balls. It's grunt work, and they make everyone in UPS do it. I have family in the business (division manager over NY), and she started about 15 years ago. Did the same crap I'll be doing. The work is insane, but it pays off. I don't want to get into a rant about all the good things the job entails (unless someone wants me to), but I can say that I'm excited to start this Monday.

And I do pick them up from about knee-height. They roll down a conveyor/slide, and just keep coming. I have the sheet discussing workloads and how it's not a job for anyone (all info given by the company), and it says 425 boxes per hour for loaders, and 1000 per hour for unloaders. I believe those who unload trucks have two people per truck.

I also have to stack to about 10 feet high (or however high the UPS truck is inside), 40-70 lb. boxes on average. Granted, there are some things that're 10 lbs. or 30, 5 lbs. or whatever, but the average boxes are 40-70 lbs.

But yes, that's how it is. Four hours, all that work, five nights a week. But fuck, if I can go through that for 6-9 months, I'm promoted to a part-time supervisor, no doubt. After that, there's no ceiling, so hopefully I'll catch up with my family one day.

I'm so trying the Smolov Squat Program once this job gets easier.

Oh, and I know I'm making this long, but they've had college football captains, and people that were captains of their college baseball teams or whatever work for them, and they complained the work was harder than what their coach had them do.

Oh yeah. I'm screwed.

All I gotta say is EAT ALOT of protein, carbs and fats. Jack your calories up to 4,500-5,000 a day seriously. You could be burning 250 calories per hour in one of thsoe 4 hour shifts. At that point instead of eating 4,000 calories per day and gaining you're only using 3,000 of them and struggling. See what I'm saying?

Also no matter what, get 8 hours sleep a night. I've met people that went to school and worked that said they couldn't get 8 hours and generally it was because they'd rather stay up an extra hour or 2 chatting or watching tv. Get your sleep and eat enough and you should still be able to gain because 40-70lbs boxes aren't that heavy, but the pace and volume of the work is fatiguing.

Take a multi-vitamin/mineral twice a day. One after breakfast and one after your 4 hour shift.

I'd also use creatine and keep a 64oz pop bottle with a squeeze mouth on it handy and fucking drink from it super quick every 10 minutes or so. No point in getting dehydrated from 4 hours of sweat inducing work. Besides that drink a gallon of water a day for 1.5 gallons total per day.

This is what I would do. I'm sure you'll be fine. So I'll say good work because luck is not a factor.

All the advice you gave is dead on - exactly what I planned on doing, aside from the creatine. Planning on 10 hours of sleep, along with tons of food. 3500 cals now (roughly) - 4000 minimum then, with 4500 coming in frequently.

I'm SO tearing shit up!