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ALWAYS run anti-prolactin with tren or deca

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stevesmi

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I posted this already in a thread this morning and it was such good info that I wanted to share it with the rest of the board to save people from fucking themselves up. there are so many newbs who post tren or deca cycles and leave out anti-prolactin.. bet there are thousands of them out there running them with no support supps either.

if you run anti-prolactin (along with covering all bases) with tren your sex drive will likely be fine. it is impossible to drop your prolactin down and not have stronger Libido if that is the reason your libido sucks, now if you have other issues effecting libido like poor diet, poor sleep, stress etc. that is a different story. research what prolactin is and what it does. its the reason after sex you don't want to screw anymore. get rid of the prolactin and you will want to screw all the time. don't run anti-prolactin and of course you won't ever want to have sex. make sense? men do NOT need prolactin.. women do however thats why they breastfeed. when you hear a guy brag that liquid is coming out of his boobs and he is proud of it, that is an example of someone who didn't run anti-prolactin and failed to do his homework.

also you need to run support supps with tren or your sides will be un bearable. if you want to spend hundreds on different supps like taurine, herbs, milk thistle, etc. then that is your business. but i just buy N2guard for an all in 1

3rd you need to get your nuts functioning during cycle. HCGenerate, hcg, or if you want to waste a lot of money then HMG.

run it the right way or don't run it at all. that includes kickstarting your pct, and that includes PCT itself. i could go on and on. please don't make threads bitching how bad tren was when you failed to run it properly to begin with. you basically are helping the media spread bs about steroids when you do that. no wonder chicks always tell me "dont juice it shrinks your dick"

let me tell you the bottom line with running test. guys run it with tren because they don't run anti-prolactin, so they are on with high prolactin and the test coats the problem. of course when they come off test and their prolactin is still high their sex drive is shot to hell for a while until the prolactin comes back down. if you would of ran the cycle correctly to begin with you wouldn't have that problem. if you aren't gonna run it correctly and don't care about PCT and are one of those dudes that quit the gym after cycle anyway, then by all means run test with tren with no support supps.

if you go into PCT with high prolactin, high estrogen, raisin nuts then don't bitch that steroids 'shut you down' .. in the year 2012 you should easily be able to cover ALL BASES.

and then you have the guys that PM me that 'caber or prami is too expensive will i be okay without it?" then i tell them flat out then they shouldn't run tren and they get pissy at me.. then 2 months later they PM me and say "i should of listened to you, i'm shut down help!" one of these days i'm gonna pull my hair out
 
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Hey Steve don't want to get off topic here but is caber or prami needed running the oral MHN?
Actually I'll run it anyway as an insurance policy.
 
^^^ any steroid that raises your prolactin then yes.

any steroid that aromatizes run an AI.

make sure your bases are covered.

people complain that anti-prolactins are expensive. they aren't when you run low doses. i only run .25mg of caber 2X per week.. thats it. you hear about guys running .5 EOD or something. not necessary! unless you are running 2 grams of tren or something outrageous
 
also I wanted to add that steroids effect all of us differently and you really really really believe the media hype that steroids shrink your dick or make your dick not work etc. or whatever then if you run them it probably will screw your dick up in some way. there is a mental element to this.

or the fact that for some guys they just cannot handle tren at all. they will end up in jail from it or whatever. thats why you run ace for 6 weeks capped the first time. if you do what i told you to do in my post and you STILL have issues. then tren isn't for you. there are countless steroids you can mess with instead.
 
people complain that anti-prolactins are expensive. they aren't when you run low doses. i only run .25mg of caber 2X per week.. thats it. you hear about guys running .5 EOD or something. not necessary! unless you are running 2 grams of tren or something outrageous

Cab comes in 30 1mg tabs so even if your using .5mg 2x per week you've got a 30 week supply there and people complain its too expensive.
I just don't get that.
 
Great post, Steve. One question. Once your prolactin levels do get elevated on a tren e and test e cycle, around the 5th week. (Only taking AI. ) At this point how much prami needs to be taken and can the tren be continued or should I just guit the tren all together for this cycle. I am taking N2guard, provirion and had to add letro to stop alittle gyno. No real aggression aor sweats from the tren. I love it and hate to have to quit it
 
^^^ you want to run anti-prolactin with the tren. side by side.

your prolactin levels can be checked with a blood test if you want to get exact but you don't want to ever overdose on prami or caber. i would still run them both at .5 2X per week.. thats it. some people will say run them ED or EOD. i just don't think its necessary BUT if you want to find out run bloods to see how you are doing.

you will figure out the correct dose.

same thing with AI's. some guys run insane amounts of AI's.. i only do 6 squirts a day of forma and i am fine. so as you gain experience you will figure out your best dosages
 
stevesmi --


I agree with you mate I have two questions for you. I am going to run twelve week sust 250m a week and tren 400m a week for 8 week when I stop tren I run primo for another 8 weeks. What is your opinion about runing tren higher than test? Second question is about hcg and hcgenerate is hcg used during cycle and hcgenerate? what if I use inly hcgenerate during and after for pct?
 
stevesmi --


I agree with you mate I have two questions for you. I am going to run twelve week sust 250m a week and tren 400m a week for 8 week when I stop tren I run primo for another 8 weeks.
primo should be run longer.. save the primo for another cycle.
What is your opinion about runing tren higher than test? it doesn't matter as long as you run the cycle correctly. Second question is about hcg and hcgenerate is hcg used during cycle and hcgenerate? the best way i've done it is hcgenerate during cycle then hcg as a kickstart to cycle with HMG. what if I use inly hcgenerate during and after for pct? hcgenerate +hcg works great together

bold
 
hey Steve, I agree with the anti prolactin philosophy. However... what about guys that run tren at a sane dose(100mg eod for example) and have no libido issues? For some it actually raises libido. (myself included) Obviously you should keep some on hand but would you agree that if your not having any issues other than the run of the mill irritability that you dont need to always run an A.P. drug?
 
^^^ here is the thing with that. even if your libido is fine you should still keep prolactin down. it will make recovery so much smoother.

just like running dbol or test and not suffering much bloat so no AI needed. but then when you come off it will be much easier to recover when you already have that estrogen under control.

so basically i believe in trying to keep everything normal during cycle.. that includes keeping your nuts from turning to raisins. then when you come off it will be no sweat recovering. i've been following this strategy for the past 3 years and my recovery has been sensational.
 
Great post Steve! Good info. I'm also a fan of running only the amount of doses needed to control the sides. So many people dose Caber and prami so high. I will be running NPP soon, and plan to run Caber at. 25mg E3D which is lower than a lot of people run it
 
Steve

Not running Tren, but what are your thoughts about running Caber during a low dose of Test Cyp?

I'm at week 8 on a 10 week 200mg Test Cyp cycle, and I've noticed my libido has fallen off in the last 2 weeks.

I'm running anti e, and HCGenerate at 5 caps per day.

I know it's tough to know what my prolactin levels are without a blood test, but generally speaking what are your thoughts during a test cycle?
 
^^^ actually what i would do first is stop your anti-E. let your libido come back that way.

that is why your libido dropped IMO.

Interesting take on it.. So you think the anti E's are killing my libido?

I posted a topic in a dif sub forum wondering if I was possibly on too much of the AI's. My joints have been killing me lately, all over my body. I've been running 3mg adex weekly, and 5 pumps am / 5 pumps pm of Forma.

So to clarify - I'll stop the Adex and Forma until I finish out these last two weeks on cycle.

When should I start back up on the AI / PCT, 2 weeks after last pin? Or maybe 1 week after since it's such a low dose cycle?

Should I continue the HCGenerate as I've been doing?
 
I've never needed to touch anti-prolactin drugs with tren if I run masteron E.

The less drugs, the better, right?
 
I'm also from the less drugs, the better school of thought. I've run tren once and could barely control my libido, granted I ran it with test and mast.

I say its better to keep it on hand and user it if needed. Why throw more drugs in your body? I feel like I use enough as it is.
 
Interesting take on it.. So you think the anti E's are killing my libido?

I posted a topic in a dif sub forum wondering if I was possibly on too much of the AI's. My joints have been killing me lately, all over my body. I've been running 3mg adex weekly, and 5 pumps am / 5 pumps pm of Forma.

So to clarify - I'll stop the Adex and Forma until I finish out these last two weeks on cycle.

When should I start back up on the AI / PCT, 2 weeks after last pin? Or maybe 1 week after since it's such a low dose cycle?

Should I continue the HCGenerate as I've been doing?

continue the hcgenerate.

way too much AI's. you only need forma. i usually only do 4-8 pumps per day total. the adex is overkill.

i guarantee you will feel better. i ran forma with dbol last year and had zero bloat, i actually suspected it crippled my estrogen too much. its strong stuff.
 
I've never needed to touch anti-prolactin drugs with tren if I run masteron E.

The less drugs, the better, right?

good point!! yes its true DHT's will block prolactin to some degree, this is another option besides what i brung up earlier.

finishing up a tren cycle with masteron is a good idea for the reason you brung up, I do that sometimes.

but my next tren cycle I am gonna be using winny to finish it up i think. just to see what happens.

another good reason though to run caber is it will aid sleep so its like killing 2 birds with 1 stone. and a lot of guys complain about sleep issues on tren.

as long as you keep that damn prolactin down then I applaud you whether you use prami, caber, masteron, etc. its the guys who don't run anything and then complain that bother me.
 
continue the hcgenerate.

way too much AI's. you only need forma. i usually only do 4-8 pumps per day total. the adex is overkill.

i guarantee you will feel better. i ran forma with dbol last year and had zero bloat, i actually suspected it crippled my estrogen too much. its strong stuff.

Excellent thanks for the good info Steve.
 
good point!! yes its true DHT's will block prolactin to some degree, this is another option besides what i brung up earlier.

finishing up a tren cycle with masteron is a good idea for the reason you brung up, I do that sometimes.

but my next tren cycle I am gonna be using winny to finish it up i think. just to see what happens.

another good reason though to run caber is it will aid sleep so its like killing 2 birds with 1 stone. and a lot of guys complain about sleep issues on tren.

as long as you keep that damn prolactin down then I applaud you whether you use prami, caber, masteron, etc. its the guys who don't run anything and then complain that bother me.


I've read about cabaser causing heart valve problems. Is this something that was debunked or still a concern?
 
I've read about cabaser causing heart valve problems. Is this something that was debunked or still a concern?

i remember reading about this before but i believe it was from really high doses like 5mg a day.

steve have you used prami? im getting some shitty sides from it but ive heard this happens but im wondering if they go away after using it for a couple weeks or so
 
So what if you run a deca or tren cycle without anti-prolactin support like caber or prami. Can you still run caber before and into your pct to help control prolactin and help you recover? Or would you recomend extending your test out until you get your prolactin under control then go into pct?
 
Can i substitute another prolactin inhibitor like melanotanII just to kill two birds with one stone? You mentioned the caber dose did not need to be a high one so maybe MTII could be swapped?? Oops, nevermind, i just read a post, that i missed before.
 
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also I wanted to add that steroids effect all of us differently and you really really really believe the media hype that steroids shrink your dick or make your dick not work etc. or whatever then if you run them it probably will screw your dick up in some way. there is a mental element to this.

or the fact that for some guys they just cannot handle tren at all. they will end up in jail from it or whatever. thats why you run ace for 6 weeks capped the first time. if you do what i told you to do in my post and you STILL have issues. then tren isn't for you. there are countless steroids you can mess with instead.
true, although i only use an AI if i run my test over 750ish... and i have never had to use my bromo ive always do kept it on hand... you never know you might get an overdosed batch, or your body just reacts diff over time... glad i dont need it, i took a half tab time when i first got it was exremely sick afterwards... not sure if it was from that but if i ever need to use it i hope it wasnt!...
 
Also, if you cannot afford the appropriate ancillaries, or if you're just a cheapskate, while it's not as good as the "real deal"; a low-cost, easily-accessible, and natural supplement to use is Vitamin B6. In years past, I had sources with prolactin-based AAS/PH's, but did not offer any ancillaries. I am one of those "lucky" people who are hypersensitive to prolactin, so I cannot run anything like that without some sort of anti-prolactin. Reading articles years ago that suggested Vitamin B6 as a supplement for elevated prolactin levels, I tried it, and found success with it. The only catch is, since it is water soluble, you have to dose it several times throughout the day for an adequate dosing.
 
true, although i only use an AI if i run my test over 750ish... and i have never had to use my bromo ive always do kept it on hand... you never know you might get an overdosed batch, or your body just reacts diff over time... glad i dont need it, i took a half tab time when i first got it was exremely sick afterwards... not sure if it was from that but if i ever need to use it i hope it wasnt!...

its not just about whether you need to use it.. its about recovery. if you are on TRT which I believe you said you were before then don't worry about it.

but those who cycle on and off need to keep their hormones as close to normal as they can DURING cycle so that when they go into pct they aren't all over the place.
 
i remember reading about this before but i believe it was from really high doses like 5mg a day.

steve have you used prami? im getting some shitty sides from it but ive heard this happens but im wondering if they go away after using it for a couple weeks or so

I keep ample caber on hand.. i like the stuff a lot. you should definately try caber if prami doesn't work for you and i've heard guys have trouble with caber and switch to prami. so your only way to know is to try and see what you like better. i tried prami and it made me kinda queasy as well so i just went back to caber.
 
So what if you run a deca or tren cycle without anti-prolactin support like caber or prami. Can you still run caber before and into your pct to help control prolactin and help you recover? Or would you recomend extending your test out until you get your prolactin under control then go into pct?

like i told moya a few posts back and i have preached on here all the time. its very important that DURING cycle you keep your hormones balanced as much as possible. and of course your lipids as well. this will not only keep you feeling good/energetic/etc, but it will also make recovery so much easier.

in the old days they ran their cycles.. and then in pct ran nolva/clomid and then that was it. well the problem with that is if they ran lets say tren/test for example then during cycle their prolactin and estrogen would be sky high + their nuts would shrink. so then when they went into pct they were depending solely on nolva/clomid to make things balanced for them. thats why pct wasn't fun and a lot of guys would just jump right back on cycle without even coming off after a couple weeks.

really its very simple to keep things balanced. just some supps like hcgenerate and n2guard.. and then a little caber a couple times a week.. and for estrogen some forma squirts while you are taking a dump .. by the time you get off the toilet its dried and you are g2g.

a good example of this was the guy who posted he was on deca/test and he had high blood pressure. well had he been taking his AI and support supps he would have his blood pressure under control and wouldn't be dealing with the domino effect of sides that accompany high estrogen which are gonna potentially hurt his workouts, sleep etc, which will effect his potential gains.. its a domino effect. not to mention the high prolactin is gonna open up even more problems. so its important to cover ALL BASES DURING CYCLE, not just when you are about to come off :)
 
Good to hear, just started a tren proviron cycle, last thing i wanted to hear is prolactrone is not sufficient
 
So what if you run a deca or tren cycle without anti-prolactin support like caber or prami. Can you still run caber before and into your pct to help control prolactin and help you recover? Or would you recomend extending your test out until you get your prolactin under control then go into pct?

I'm not the expert, but nipping your prolactin in the bud during cycle will result in better gains, so if you're going to buy some caber anyway, why not just do it from the start?
 
I'm not the expert, but nipping your prolactin in the bud during cycle will result in better gains, so if you're going to buy some caber anyway, why not just do it from the start?


Yeah my last cycle I wasnt able to get it till the end of my cycle which killed me towards the end. I know I could of made better gains but was happy cause I ended up gaining 20 pounds when it was all said and done.

Quick Question which you might know about. Since progestins can block the AR, if you run a 19nor whith out prolactin protection would this mean that you would be inhibiting gains anyways?
 
Yeah my last cycle I wasnt able to get it till the end of my cycle which killed me towards the end. I know I could of made better gains but was happy cause I ended up gaining 20 pounds when it was all said and done.

Quick Question which you might know about. Since progestins can block the AR, if you run a 19nor whith out prolactin protection would this mean that you would be inhibiting gains anyways?

The halflives of ar are extremely short so I imagine blocking them would be a difficult task, and if your worried about it run something for prolactin. It's really an easy solution.
 
Yeah my last cycle I wasnt able to get it till the end of my cycle which killed me towards the end. I know I could of made better gains but was happy cause I ended up gaining 20 pounds when it was all said and done.

Quick Question which you might know about. Since progestins can block the AR, if you run a 19nor whith out prolactin protection would this mean that you would be inhibiting gains anyways?

I wouldn't know the answer to this, but stevesmi probably would. He's my tren advisor :rolleyes: But i know he'll tell you to run anti-prolactin regardless with tren.
 
Will your body lower prolactin naturally because I can't get any Cabor and have just finished a tren test cycle! I was promised it would be here for me and I've been let down!
 
Will your body lower prolactin naturally because I can't get any Cabor and have just finished a tren test cycle! I was promised it would be here for me and I've been let down!

You can get prami or caber from a research company.. also this is the reason you should have everything on hand before starting a cycle.. don't mean to be a dickhead

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
I was using 500mg test e every week (1-5 weeks)
dbol 50mg ed (1-3 weeks)
tren a 50mg EOD (3-4weeks)
arimidex every 2-3 days 0.5 mg,

Last week, after last pin of tren a, I had sex that night and could not keep my errection. Stopped tren and arimidex (5 days ago) after that, and do only one pin of test enanthate that day 500mg. I will stop using everything to let my body recover. Can't believe, that only after two weeks of tren I lost my libido. I was reading this topic, and did lab tests of prolactine, progesterone and estradiol.
Progesterone was fine
Prolactin almost double than normal, estradiol also double than normal. I got bromocriptine (two day on it 5mg ed) and started wirh arimidex again 0.5mg eod.
How long on bromocriptine to lower my prolactin, and will my libido be ok again after I lower it ? Sorry for my bad english
 
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Adex does nothing for prolactin so that's the reason... Again there is a reason we tell people to have everything on hand before they start their cycle..

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
I was using 500mg test e every week (1-5 weeks)
dbol 50mg ed (1-3 weeks)
tren a 50mg EOD (3-4weeks)
arimidex every 2-3 days 0.5 mg,

Last week, after last pin of tren a, I had sex that night and could not keep my errection. Stopped tren and arimidex (5 days ago) after that, and do only one pin of test enanthate that day 500mg. I will stop using everything to let my body recover. Can't believe, that only after two weeks of tren I lost my libido. I was reading this topic, and did lab tests of prolactine, progesterone and estradiol.
Progesterone was fine
Prolactin almost double than normal, estradiol also double than normal. I got bromocriptine (two day on it 5mg ed) and started wirh arimidex again 0.5mg eod.
How long on bromocriptine to lower my prolactin, and will my libido be ok again after I lower it ? Sorry for my bad english

thats your problem right there.

lowering prolactin will always increase the urge to have sex, you are another victim of the "if i stack test with tren I will reduce my sides and keep my sex drive" crowd. test does NOTHING to block prolactin.

kudos for running bloods.

finish up your cycle and then next time around run tren the correct way from day 1
 
Running Caber this cycle and man its just as good as popping cialis, is that normal to have wood for a day or so
 
I have fixed my problem (prolactin was the problem,thank you, fixed it with bromocriptine 5mg a day), libido is crazy today, stoped with my cycle completely, just waiting one more week for test enanthate to go out from system. Fuck the muscles, if u can't fuck. What to take for pct after 5 week cycle ? Or to let body to fix itself without medications ? I will be using food with lot of cholesterol for test production, ZMA, vit C, vit D, a lot of fish oil ;)
 
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Also, don't go too LOW with PROLACTIN. It can couse:

"Anyways, after much research I have concluded the symptoms of low prolactin to be the following..

Anxiety
Impulsive Behavior
Arteriogenic Erectile Dysfunction
High or Low Libido in both Men and Women
Premature Ejaculation (PE)
Memory Problems
Feelings of Invincibility (similar to the dopamine excess produced by Methamphetamine)
Paranoia
Weight Loss/Anorexia
Blood Sugar Abnormalties (usually low blood sugar)
High or Low Blood Pressure
Infertility (due to decreased pituitary function, or because of resulting low dihydrotestosterone)
Headaches
Depression




Then there are physiological factors affected by low prolactin levels..

Low 5-alpha-reductase levels; leading to decreased DHT levels in men
Low free testosterone in women
Catecholamine or Dopamine Excess
High Estrogen levels in Men and Women
Low SHBG (Sex-Hormone-Binding-Globulin) in men and women
High Histamine Levels (contributes to low prolactin; also caused by low prolactin)
Low Serotonin Levels (also could be a cause of low prolactin)
"

Sources: Can't post link, I don't have 25 posts.
 
hi guys..i need some help here...i ran a crazy abusive cycle( i know i screwed up)...started with test prop,mastebolone and winstrol for 10 weeks and ended it with sustaon,parabolan for 4 weeks...parallely also took 3-4 iu hgh for about 8 weeks...also pre workout i was having ephedra,t3 and clen....my pct included HCG (5000 iu per week for 4 weeks),clomid,nolvadex,proviron, and some testosterone boosting supplements like t bomb etc...my gains ,muscularity and vascularity were great and until 3 months after my pct.. i had no issues ..but for the past 1 month i am suddenly loosing muscle,have severe crazy acne on my face,and also feel a little drop in my sex drive ..also feel a lil twinge in my nipples sometimes....pls help me sort myself out...will greatly appreciate..cheers!
 
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