HEAVYWEIGHTS
WINNER: VALENTINA CHEPIGA
2) Vickie Gates
3) Lesa Lewis

2000 FITNESS OLYMPIA
WINNER: SUSIE CURRY
2) Kelly Ryan
3) Jennifer Worth
4) Timea Majorova
5) Adelina Friedmansky

I say that they should all come in big, hard and ripped. What are they going to do, cancel the show due to a lack of acceptable looking competitors?

Are the judges saying that it is just TOO difficult to compare the weight classes? Or is it that they are trying to say that women's bbing has become too much of a freak show and that the masses just don't find such a look aesthetically pleasing?

I have nothing against women using steroids, GH etc, to develop their bodies, but once they start pushing it to the point where their face starts to look like a man's then you know there is something seriously wrong.

Some of the really big women are using as much gear as some of the men. On a recent TV program over here, one of the top Amateur men said that he knows women who are using five times more steroids than he is using.

However there are others who have managed to maintain their looks Valentina is one and having met Andrulla I would say she has also managed to keep her looks over the years.

I really wish there was more openness and honesty in bodybuilding, so that up and coming bodybuilders wouldn't have to make the same mistakes that their predecessors made.

This goes out to all you Lesa Lewis lovers out there

As far as looking like a "drag queen" (MadMitch), Lisa is anything but that. She participated in a body composition study I was conducting and my colleague who helped is as anti-female muscle as they come, thinks women BBs are freaks, but found Lisa very attractive. That even surprised me considering he likes his women skinny, soft and traditionally feminine.

Lisa has also spoken in some of my classes on bodybuilding. A number of students commented on how "attractive" she is. Many felt that (from pictures) most women bodybuilders looked grotesque. This comes from a group of average college students. I think they'd be the first to come up with the drag queen comments. I can also say that Lisa's skin is the best I've seen on any female BB or fitness competitor, hardly that of an old alligator that so many BBs and fitness girl's sport. Its as soft and smooth as a baby's ass. Sorry I can't agree on the drag queen issue.

Perhaps the next Ms Olympia should look like this. Don't know if the graphic will work.

F1

I think you do smell some serious controversy.... Hell the pro scene isn't based on who's got the most muscle with the least gear...I still stick with my good for the goose good for the gander position...that or maybe we should feminize the men! All that gear should be estrogen based and then we could have co-ed competition based on the new feminine-muscular image..... It's the same old thing... women need to fit a "type" mold and the boys can do whatever they want....

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Kaizen

Omnia Praeclara
tam difficilia
Quam rara sunt

I suggest you read the bit on Testosterone in The 1996 World Anabolic Review, in which they suggest the maximum testosterone a woman should take is 250 mg per week, however most of the Top heavy weight women are injecting much higher doses in a shorter time period. I have been told that many are using or should I say abusing by taking 1000's of mg's per week. Some have even used the biggy - Anadrol 50.

I was also told about one Top Amateur woman who was injecting 3 different steroids every f**king day by the time she was 18 years old. Yes she got big and strong really fast, but in about 2 years she went from being a real stunner to having a face like a bulldog.

This is what pisses me off about the secrecy in bodybuilding. With proper advice that girl could have got to the same level of developement using a lot less steroids and still maintained her looks. Ok it might have taken her a few more years, but at least she wouldn't have destroyed her looks.

What you see on contest photos is a body fat of about 4.5%, dehydrated and under harsh overhead lighting.

Ladies (and guys for that matter), how many of you have gotten down to 4.5% body fat? Ladies, trust me, even if you are clean, get down to 4.5%, dehydrate for a couple of days, then take a look in a mirror with strong overhead lighting. Guess what, your jaw will be square and cheek bones quite prominent. Why, no bodyfat coupled with no s.c. water. Now, you also have to remember that the face and jaw area is full of muscle. Any muscle that is overloaded grows. Even if you aren't juicing, clenching your teeth during heavy lifts will cause the musculature in your jaw to hypertrophy. Like any muscle, take away the fat and it looks more defined. Get my point?

A female trainer I once knew who was an anorectic maintained a year-round body fat of 4.3% (assessed by skinfolds, DEXA and hydrostatic weighting). Her face was as gnarly as gnarly comes. Her skin looked like it was stretched across her skull. Square jaw and prominent cheeks, never juiced in her life.

Currently, a fitness competitor trains at our gym. I just comp's her at 8%. She is getting the same look in her face as she leans out.

Regarding permanent changes. If juicing permanently changed the jaw, then why does Kim look so much better now (at least in the face). More fat, less muscle.

There are many confounding variables that influence looks in addition to androgens.

Bottom-line, being around numerous women bodybuilders and fitness competitors, if I were single, I'd take a date with Lisa over any fitness competitor. She's one classy lady and her class goes well beyond her looks.

F1 - you bring out some EXTREMELY good points. People do not look the same at 14% as they do at 4%. Even the men are fucking ugly when they are about to step out onto stage for a competition. You can't have the body dehydrated, muscles bulging ripped to shreds w/o it effecting the aesthetics of the face. How many of you have been told just before a competition by people in the gym, people who see you on a nearly-daily basis, "You look sick!"? It is because you do!.....and I've never been below 8% myself. I shudder to think how frugly (that is FREAKING UGLY) I would be at 4% or below!

The fact of the matter is that no matter how big and developed a woman's muscles become, whether we PERSONALLY find this look aethetically pleasing or visually appealing or not - as body builders or fitness enthusiast, at the very least, we should be able to acknowledge their remarkable accomplishments w/o degrading them by making comments like, "She looks like a guy."

I myself have been guilty of this in the past. Whether this was out of a sense of insecurity - wanting to distance myself from what is considered by MOST to be beyond "fringe" or "freaky" or ignorance and misinformation or perhaps a combination of all of these elements, REGARDLESS - If we, within the body building community can not at least acknowledge and accept the achievements of our own without degrading our sisters, how then can we expect those within the "mainstream" or "average" community to begin to open their eyes to the true beauty that is STRENGTH and SIZE?!

OK....I'll get off the soapbox now.

It is, of course, the endless debate on the "mass" of women�s BBing - and fitness for that matter. Here are a few bones to chew on:

I've said before that I don't mind the big ladies, and what they have to take to get that way. What I AM hoping for, is to see some progress in the judging style that will reduce the use of diuretics. Maybe they should set a min level of BF, say 8% to compete.

I like the idea of two classes. Now I have a choice, go out with a woman I can spin. Or go out with a woman who can spin me!!!!

For some strange reason women BBers have to be good looking in the face. This is the only sport I know of that being "butt ugly" will keep you from excelling. This seemingly dose not apply to the men - MUCH.

Using test DOES NOT MAKE YOU JAW GROW.

"Weider Confusion Principle" LOL! Hey, it's going to take some time for the judges to come around. Not all the old times like the changes.

Symmetry, Symmetry Symmetry, why as this been forgotten?!?!? Bigger is NOT always better.

Two weeks after a comp, most women BBers look VERY good.

It is the very nature of humans to push the envelope. To see how big, how cut, and how strong one can get.

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LAte

I'm sorry, but if you have ever seen some of these women close up you can see that most of them shave their faces and have a deep raspy voice. You can even see the stubble in some of their contest photo's, just look for the two different shades in their faces. I'm not trying to be nasty I'm just being realistic and this more than anything is probably what the judges don't like seeing ie. a woman with a six o'clock shadow.

However I have met some pro women who are pretty big and have not got the stubble or raspy voice and are still really good looking, why? Genetics!!! or is it because they have been more careful not to use the heavy androgens like Anadrol 50 and long acting testosterones etc.

Warlobo I'm not so sure about Testosterone, even Arnold blamed his protruding jaw on steroids. Growth Hormone is even more responsible for the square jaw, as everyone knows GH can induce bone growth.

Anyway maybe I have explained why the judges don't really like the over muscular women. It's not because of their size or definition but more down to the fact that their faces have become more like mens with square jaws and stubble along with the deep voices.

As good as some of the pionts some of you have. Bottom line is huge muscular women are not natures norm,so I don't think the majority of people will ever except it or understand it.

Additionally, I think what we are seeing is a matter of genetic pooling. Look, certain physical traits always gravitate to certain sports. Basketball players TEND to have long legs. Baseball players TEND to have very good eyesight. Football players TEND to be stupid... hehehe Anyways, you get my point. Maybe what we�re seeing are skeletal tendencies that support additional/superior muscle mass - and one of the byproducts of this skeletal tendency is a more square jaw line. I bet we would also see a more dense skeletal structure in all respects � regardless, or before, gear usage. I also believe we would see a very striking similarity in skeletal proportions if we took the time to measure. That is to say, the ratio of thigh bone length to hip, and forearms to that biceps bone that I can�t fricking remember the name of.

Then we dehydrate the body, which accents this law line, and wham�. A stereotype is born.

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LAte

You have heard of the condition Acromegaly or Gigantism where a normal persons Pituitary gland can suddenly start producing large quantities of growth hormone. These people tend to have distended jaws and large feet and hands. When a bodybuilder starts injecting large quantities of GH they are basically inducing the same effect of Acromegaly.

Look at some of these womens hands the next time you meet them. I used to think that their hands were just big because of all the heavy lifting!!!!

GH unlike steroids can actually INCREASE the number of muscle fibres in your body. Therefore even if you have crap genetics with not many muscle fibres, GH can level the playing field so to speak.

I'm sure you have heard it said before in some of the magazines etc. bodybuilders from the 50's - 60's saying that all the guy's today look the same. Why? I believe it is because of GH. This is also why the Pro's competition stacks have become so expensive.

Regarding hands. They grow just like any other body part exposed to mechanical stress (both muscle and bone).

I remember reading an interview about a top pro who said that Growth Hormone is great. He said that he gained 20 lb's of muscle using growth and that was while he was dieting for a show.

I know what the top pros say, but there is just nothing in the literature or anecdotally to support the results they say they achieve. Besides, how can you tell if the GH is doing shit when you're combining it with 10g of Test a week and shit load of other AAS. Personally, I don't think these guys have a clue what does anything. I'd bet that if most dropped the GH with everything else their taking, it wouldn't make any difference.

The pro I talked to told me that the guys take shit just because they are afraid that they won't have the same edge as the others, not because they are convinced or have any proof that what they are taking actually helps them.

First of all, I am appaulled by the double standard that still exsisits between men's and women's BB. How can anyone (IronGod) think that someone like Dorian Yates looks like something nature intended, but Andrulla doesn't? All the pros look like freaks who have used too much gear. To say it is obvious that the women have used AS is to imply that it's not obvious that the men have. How silly.

Testosterone does not diectly make the jaw bone grow, though Test does lead to an increase in natural GH production. Suffice it to say that science has not yet determined what kind of GH effect SUPER-physiological doses of test might have. But what most of you are seeing in the women (AND men) is an increase in the size of the jaw MUSCLES, which usually goes away when he BB stops taking lots of gear. That and the previously mentioned low %bf and dehydration.

I also feel that GH is used by pro BBs out of fear of getting left behind, NOT because they have proven to themselves that it works. Many pros will admit that they feel it's the insulin used with GH that has really made a difference in mass in the last few years. The poorer pros (and many amatuers) use insulin with AS, and no GH and make equally good gains. But as a cutting drug, GH is still a good addition.

I have not seen a Miss O since Cory E that did any justice to the sport in my opinion. Maybe Linda in her early years. I think all the top pro women look ugly and masculine and would not swap places with them for any money. BUT, like BMOM, I support them if that's what they want to do to their bodies. But I'm not so sure that the modern female BB physique isn't the result of a decade of bad judging. It will take time for the judging bodies to turn this around (if that's what they intend). But the women have gotten bigger every year because each preceding year the judges have selected the biggest female with little regard for whether they looked "like women" or not. That's OK, because I don't believe that the men OR women should be marked down for being butt-ugly. We have different contests for facial beauty and femininity.

No natured never intended Dorian Yates. Science just amplified his "MALE" characteristics further. I'm 100% for male and female body building and bigger and leaner is ALWAYS better.I like to sometime veiw thing from another perspective.

I mean lets face these are MALE hormones these women are injecting into themselves.

Could you imagine if soft and flabby were the ideal.. Men would all be lining up for our estro shots and having our testicles removed.

And most men would not need estrogen therapy if soft and flabby ever came into vogue. Merely maintaining a high level of bodyfat will ensure that they produce enough of their own estrogen to achieve this new ideal bodytype. The converse of that is women who achieve very low levels of bodyfat. Their estrogen levels drop so low that they appear androgenous. This doesn't require them to take AS. Just look at your average anorexic and you'll see what I mean. Male and female is now considered a spectrum, with hermaphrodites in the middle of the spectrum, by modern thinking medical professionals.

However you also said that "so a pro male bodybuilder increases his test levels 20 -fold above normal levels with AS use. If a woman increases her test by 20 - fold above normal she is frowned upon. That is a DOUBLE standard.

This is where I have to dissagree with you. Firstly most pro women started taking steroids with advice from a boy friend or a male personal trainer. This is why a lot of these women got so big so f**king fast, because they basically where advised to use the same things that the men were using.

Now as I said in one of my posts above, a top Amatuer male on a tv program over here said that he knows women who are using 5 times the amount of steroids he is using. The guy is Australian and I can Guess who he is talking about. But the fact is that a lot of the pro women today are using just as much steroids as the men.

A former top Amateur female bodybuilder told me that she has no doubt that the pro women today are using well over 1000 mg of testosterone per week.

Therefore when you say these men are increasing their test levels by 20 - fold a lot of these women who are using just as much steroids as the men are actually increasing their natural test levels by 200 - fold.

The Fitness women are using mostly Winy, Primo and Anavar which even in high quantities are not nearly as androgenic as Test, Anadrol 50, Parabolan Dianabol etc.

Testosterone has an anabolic to androgenic ratio of 100/100.

Primobolan has a ratio of 500/20 which means that it is 5 times more anabolic yet it is also 5 times less androgenic than Test.

Therefore if a woman pro was taking 1000 mg of Test per week then a fitness woman would need to take 5000 mg of Primobolan per week before she would have the same androgen levels as the pro female bodybuilder.