posted June 13, 2000 12:31 PM            

My first suggestion would be to take a few moments and go over the many great posts - which sounds like you may have done already.

My fisrt bit of advice is SCREW the HMB! I think it may be time to post up my little article on that stuff....

Again, great to have ya posting and hang in there

Late

Lobo

posted June 13, 2000 04:30 PM            

After your body has burned all the glycogen it can get it's hands on (by hook or crook), then it will begrudgingly start to burn fat. Although this sounds like a good thing, when done chronically it just teaches your body to store as much fat (mostly subcutaneous) as it can because it has learned it will need those stores again tomorrow. This is not always bad, and most good endurance athletes will have a 'healthy' layer of subcutaneous fat that they've trained they're bodies to tap into during gruellng events. But if you want to look svelt and muscular, this is not the way to get there.

The bottom line is:
If you want to look like a marathon runner, then train like a marathon runner.
If you want to look like a sprinter, then train like a sprinter.
If you want to look like something in between, then cross-training is the way to go.

But you can be sure neither the sprinter or the marathoner are going to train on a calorie restricted diet.

Of course, if you want to look like Jane Fonda.........well there's nothing wrong with that either. As long as you're happy.

How long ago was your last pregnancy? With diet, exercise and time some of that excess skin will disappear. Did you gain a lot of weight with the pregnancy (and then rapidly lose it)?

posted June 19, 2000 03:21 PM            

This whole problem of not eating enough and "cardio-ing" yourself to death is really common among women. I myself went through it for three years. I had no problem maintain my weight because I did primarily weight train (as heavily as I could with good form) then did cardio @ 5 -6 days (30 min) - all this on only 1,200 calories a day if not 1,000. So I got big and ripped ... NOT!!!!! I was small and hard, but I really wanted to grow. So what was in my magic bag of tricks? FOOD!

I'm 5'4". In Dec 99 I weighed 108 - 110lbs. Don't know my bf, but I wore a size O in adults clothing and a children's size 12. NOT NORMAL!

I ate enough to grow, took some good supplements, lifted intensely, cut cardio to 3 times per week (45 min) and competed in May at 109lbs at 8%bf - NATURALLY.

Masterhunker, I'm not yelling at you. You have to find what works for you and run with it. GOOD LUCK, GIRL!

posted June 19, 2000 08:12 PM            

---"Could somebody please tell me why steroids are the only answer?"---

They are not the only answer... They are the most effective answer.

---"Believe it or not YOU can lose fat and build muscle WITHOUT THE USE OF STEROIDS"---

And you can also build a house without a hammer, but it's a lot harder. If ya got the tools, use them!

Late

Lobo

p.s. Bikinimom, welcome to the boards, you got some fire in yas!

posted June 19, 2000 08:50 PM            

Try eating properly. That means 5 sound meals every day. If you're not sure what I mean by a sound meal then feel free to say so and we'll give you some guidelines. In the beginning try to make as many of your next day's meals in advance and make it an automatic habit to eat them by the clock. Don't listen to your brain or stomach, just eat every 2.5 to 3 hours religiously. Keep up all the other good stuff you're doing with weights, cardio, clenbuterol, etc... and give it a month to see if it's working. If not, then you can try other things.

posted June 19, 2000 10:14 PM            

I was just reading a post by Ironchick. She has been in the iron game a long time and she feels that she has reached her genetic potential and is struggling with whether or not to take it to the next level. I can sympathize with her plight (not that I'm there yet by any stretch of the imagination) but as I continue in my own development I realize that this might someday become a delima for me also. I believe that her concerns are valid.

I am not an advocate of steroid use ESPECIALLY not as one's first course of action. However, I'm not saying that there aren't those with whom I do agree they are a "necessary evil".

I also have to say that I am glad that there is this forum for education about the topic of drug use. Knowledge is power.

Warlobo thank you for your kind words but I must say that I agree to disagree with you about this topic ESPECIALLY IN THIS CASE. To equate the construction of a house without the help of proper tools to building one's own physique without steroids is, I feel, inaccurate at best.

posted June 20, 2000 02:49 PM            

It's been said before, but I'll reword it. The best thing about this board is the open debate and exchange of ideas, most of which takes place without TOO much flaming.

But this topic was originally about how to get masterhunker on the right track. She was confused to begin with, but imagine what she must be thinking now! Sorry if you're even more confused. So far almost all the advice you've been given here is good advice. Now get out there and do it.

posted June 20, 2000 03:43 PM            

I would look at why you ate so much. Are you getting enough macro nutrients the rest of the time? I've had problems with binging for over 10yrs...but since i've started eating enough of the right stuff (you can see a sample menu under Texas Guns post) I have no desire to overeat anymore. I've been a huge sugar junkie in the past and I swear even fruit tastes too sweet for me now.

Drink lots and lots of water....that helps get rid of water retention too. Well, it does for me anyway.

posted June 20, 2000 04:27 PM            

I do have a beef with personal trainers (being one myself) that push steroids on their clients though... I think this sends a negative message that the only way to achieve results through training is with major drug enhancement.... when most people can accomplish their goals naturally (top level competitive bbs excluded)

Just my two cents on the topic

posted June 20, 2000 05:51 PM            

First off, some background info fer yah B. Mom and for some of the other newbees... Cause you have probably have not had the time to follow all of my postings. I was nat for some 15 years and I always have believed in working up to your nat potential - and have said so many times. So we're in agreement on this issue, I'm sort of confused as to how you thought other wise.

As I re-read the posts, I am somewhat confused again as to why you got excited and even mentioned steroids in the first place. Non of us said one thing about using them at all. And in fact. I would bet we were all just about ready to jump in and scream "NO NOR-ANDRO INJECTIONS" had I not posted my little post.

An FYI on the "old fashion bit" roids have been around since the 50's and this is where I'd like to do a minor rant. Steroids are not harmful if used CORRECTLY, in fact they can IMPROVE the overall well being and physical condition of the human body. Period! And I'd LOVE someone to pick up that gauntlet. And you better have the blood work to back your shit cause I do. Now please don't use the few extreme cases out there which I consider to be steroid ABUSE.

You did not really respond to my statement, "They are not the only answer... They are the most effective answer."

And I rather liked the hammer and the house bit, cept, per Sky's idea, I would change it to an air hammer - NOW THAT'S GOT SOME POWER :P

I guess what most concerns me is that we have to many people who look at steroids as a MORAL CHOICE. Folks, it's not evil, it's not wrong, or un-natural. It has nothing to do about training philosophy. They are chemicals, just like any other chemical, nothing more and nothing less, as are vitamins, creatine, E/C/A, and a host of other "supplements" - and shall I mention BC pills�.HUMMM?!?! Ladies and germs, they are nothing but tools which will help you overcome genetic limits. Like any tool, it must be learned to be used correctly and safely. In my mind, that why this board is here, to stop the destructive ignorance and improve the overall condition of the human body through hard work, proper nutrition, and the use of available tools.

And if you ask me, based on the growth of this board alone, we've all done one hell of a job at it.

Late

Lobo

posted June 20, 2000 06:47 PM            

The other, ummmm, issue I have is not that steroids are unhealthy when used appropriately, but the fact that the VAST majority of recreational users DO NOT use them properly. Proper use would require regular checkups with your GP to monitor blood levels of gear and keep an eye out for early signs of side effects. One of the most enlightened people I know of in this respect is a female PRO that trains at my gym. She tells her GP EVERYTHING that she takes (and why) and gets her T3 on prescription because her large AAS use has pushed her natural levels down. Listen up. She's a PRO and takes many risks, but will not tolerate a GP who cannot put aside their predjudices and treat the patient. Safe Use of AAS would also require legalization so that Jane Smith did not have to buy on the black market and risk injecting harmful or unsterile substances. Until these changes happen, I will not be arbitrarily recommending AAS use to people. But if they come here specifically asking how to use something (in other words 'hell bent' on doing it anyway) I will do my best to educate them in the safest and most effective use.

I've said it before-I'm pro-choice when it comes to all drugs. But first we have to remove the stigma and legal probs that accompany some of them.

posted June 20, 2000 11:02 PM            

I am not now nor have I ever maintained the notion that steroids when used to treat medical conditions are an immoral or evil thing. However, I do not place "wanting striations on my female ass" in the medical condition category.

Having said that, perhaps the reason why I jumped all over this like a crazed individual waving my "morality banner" is because I sense that Masterh's problems will not be rectified with ANY supplement, whether it be a pill, powder, or injectable. How close am I girl? Email me. I'm no shrink, but the stuff you're saying is hitting real close to home.

PS MasterH - Lose the "trainer", I'm no expert, but the individual sounds like bad news.

Lobo, I apologize for "jumping the gun" it's just that I can get really passionate when I feel someone else's pain. I have a strong sense that MasterH has got more to deal with than just bad advice from (what seems to be) a lousy "trainer".

posted June 21, 2000 10:48 AM            

MS, yes, there is that little problem of becoming a felon here in the states... sheesh.

And don't you know? Monitors are always right :p

Late

Lobo

posted June 21, 2000 11:29 AM            

I'm agreeing with Warlobo regards to moral outrage and AAS. Politicians should get over it, sooner the better.

Appologies that I am currently not in the proper mindset to debate the rest.

posted June 21, 2000 03:39 PM            

Research has shown that high dose androgens pushes T3
levels down (15,16). This is significant because the real value of optimal
thyroid levels is not for fat loss, but instead for optimum anabolic
activity. T3 has diverse facilitative anabolic effects including, increasing
GH secretion(16,17), up-regulating GH receptors (18), up-regulating
IGF-1 receptors (19,20), and other less well defined anabolic effects
(21,22). Don�t get the wrong idea however, for T3 to facilitate
anabolism, it must stay in the high normal range. A little too high or a
little too low significantly changes the biological effects of thyroid
hormones. Bringing T3 levels too high will undoubtedly backfire and
lead to muscle, strength losses, and rebound fat gain.

15. Deyssig R., Weissel M. Ingestion of androgenic-anabolic steroids induces
mild thyroidal impairment in male body builders. J Clin Endocrin Metab. 76(4):
1069-1071, 1992

16. Markku A., Rahkila P., Reinila M., & Vihko R. Androgenic-anabolic steroid
effects on serum thyroid, pituitary and steroid hormones in athletes. Am J
Sports Med. 15(4):357-361, 1987