posted June 08, 2000 02:22 PM            

Post up what yah know and I'll cut and past it all together. I don't care where you get the info - plagiarize the heck out of anything Use whatever means necessary, excluding the use of deadly force - for now.

If you think someone has posted incorrect info, be prepared to provide some form of proof. Be kind in any debate that might arise, and don't flame someone for trying - well don't flame to hard

To get things started here are some detection times for lab testing from a post I copied a few days ago by Painkiller:

Detection times

Painkiller
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 153) posted June 06, 2000 12:15 PM

<------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deca-Durabolin 18 months
Durabolin 12 months
Equipoise 5 months
Primobolan Depot 5 months
Parabolan 5 months
Finaject 5 months
Sustanon 3 months
Testosteron Enanthate 3 months
Testosteron Cypionate 3 months
Anadrol 2 months
Halotestin 2 months
Winstrol Depot 2 months
Esiclene 2 months
drostanolone propionate 2 months
Winstrol 3 weeks
Anavar 3 weeks
Testosteron Propionate 2 weeks
Testosteron Undecanoate 1 week
Clenbuterol 4 days
Take this in mind if you are going to take gear. Detection times can be different from person to person!!!

Late

Lobo

posted June 08, 2000 03:36 PM            

These detection times have been floating around for a few years now. They're a good starting point, but with all the urine samples being collected from my country now going to the Olympic reference lab in Sydney, I wouldn't trust them. The reason is that 'state-of-the-art' urine screening means they can now detect a single molecule in a sample. It's nearly 100-fold more sensitive then even a few years ago.

There are also some unexplainable times in it. Most notably is the Clen detection. How can a drug with a 24 hour half-life become undetectable in only 4 days?

I guess for now it's as good a guide as we have. And for sure individual mileage will vary. Dieting and cardio tend to increase elimination rates, but can also release long forgotten long-chain esters that have been hiding away in your cuddly fat deposits for months. Deca being the classic example. I don't think elimination times will ever be a cut and dry table, just a general guideline. I'm adding a wide margin of error to these times before I give any samples.

posted June 10, 2000 12:23 AM            

And I think Fitness Chick has a winning idea. Almost every newbie to these boards asks similar or identical questions. Why not a reference board (sorta like an advanced FAQ) where all these questions are answered. If someone can't find their answer on that FAQ, then they can confidently ask on the other boards without having to get flamed (not that we would flame anyone here...).

Perhaps each board should have it's own FAQ that always sits at the top when you log in.

posted June 13, 2000 01:24 AM            

Late

posted June 13, 2000 10:23 PM            

Half-life tables also don't entirely make sense when you're dealing with injectables. There's the half-life of the drug once it hits your blood stream (which is usually pretty short and fairly consistent), then there's the time it takes for half of the drug to be released from the injection site, which depends....... well it just depends! This is the only difference in 'half-lifes' of all the different esters.

posted June 14, 2000 03:27 PM            

And you'd be surprised who does test these days. The IFBB amateur competitions, even at world level, do random testing, (scum-sucking hypocrites) because they still hope to get into the Olympics as a sport some day. Blame it on Weider I guess. The equivalent of the NPC in my country also tests randomly at all comps, and a compulsory test to qualify for any international event. There are other federations which do not test, and some day I may swap over, but for now the IFBB (and it's national affiliates) is still the most reputable one to compete in.

posted June 14, 2000 04:23 PM            

For me it's a mute point because I'm not keen to take straight test before my next competition. I think I'll stick to the oral anavar and winnie and deal with the detection problems inherent in these easily detectable substances.

posted June 14, 2000 06:05 PM            

The effects of three different enzyme-inducing drugs (antipyrine 1200 mg,
phenobarbital 100 mg, rifampicin 600 mg per day for 7 days) on plasma and
urinary testosterone concentrations, plasma gonadotropin levels, antipyrine
kinetics, and urinary 6 beta-hydroxycortisol excretion were studied in 18
healthy volunteers. Changes in plasma and urinary testosterone concentrations
following exogenous testosterone undecanoate (TU) were also investigated.
Although both antipyrine and rifampicin increased antipyrine clearance by
about 60%, they produced contrary effects on testosterone: antipyrine lowered
the total morning plasma testosterone and plasma testosterone AUC following
TU, while rifampicin led to increases of about 20% and 78%, respectively. By
contrast, phenobarbital did not significantly alter the endogenous and
exogenous plasma testosterone concentrations, but it increased the urinary
excretion of testosterone by more than 60%. The other two enzyme inducers
did not alter this parameter. Gonadotropin levels remained unchanged. The
results indicate that different enzyme-inducing agents exert divergent effects
on endogenous and exogenous testosterone concentrations and suggest that
the effect of enzyme induction on endogenous testosterone depends on the type
of microsomal enzyme-inducing drug used rather than on the extent of the
induction achieved.

This abstract illustrates the difficulties in calculating clearance times of esterified depot injections compared to orals:

Hypogonadal men of different aetiology were administered testesterone
undecanoate (Andriol, Organon) and methyltestosterone (Agovirin coated
tablets, Spofa) for three months alternatively. By means of specific
radioimmunoassays excretion of testosterone and methyltestosterone
respectively in the urine was observed in 20 and 5 patients respectively. The
course of excretion of both the preparations is possible to illustrate by
decreasing curves with apparent half-lives 1.74 and 3.90 day respectively.
Analogous observation of testosterone excretion after three-month
administration of testosterone isobutyrate (Agovirin depot) to five
female-to-male transsexual patients was observed. Excretion course shows the
maximum on 27th day after the treatment was discontinued and it is not
possible to illustrate it by a monotonous curve.

Hope that muddies the water a bit.

posted June 14, 2000 06:24 PM            

If I were to take 500mg injection of say cyp on day one, how long would it be untill I had 250mg in the blood stream. Or in other words, what day would I take another 500mg injection to have a total of 750mg swimming around.

The same for deca, anavar, winny, primo and all the others out there.

Late

posted June 15, 2000 07:25 PM            

HALF-LIVES of some AAS

Clenbuterol 35 hours

Anavar (oral) 9 hours

Stanozolol (oral) 9 hours

Test Undecanoate (Andriol oral) 42 hours

Methyltest (oral) 94 hours

Testosterone Isobutyrate (depot)27 days until maximum excretion

Stanozolol (injectable) 23 hours until max excretion

Test Undecanoate (Andriol: depot)~20 days

posted June 15, 2000 07:29 PM            

Testosterone undecanoate (TU) provides testosterone (T) replacement for
hypogonadal men when administered orally but requires multiple doses per day
and produces widely variable serum T levels. We investigated the
pharmacokinetics of a newly available TU preparation administered by
intramuscular injection to hypogonadal men. Eight patients with Klinefelter's
syndrome received either 500 mg or 1,000 mg of TU by intramuscular injection;
3 months later, the other dose was given to each man (except to one, who did
not receive the 1,000-mg dose). Serum levels of reproductive hormones were
measured at regular intervals before and after the injections. Mean serum T
levels increased significantly at the end of the first week, from less than 10
nmol/L to 47.8+/-10.1 and 54.2+/-4.8 nmol/ L for the lower and higher doses,
respectively. Thereafter, serum T levels decreased progressively and reached
the lower-normal limit for adult men by day 50 to 60. Pharmacokinetic analysis
showed a terminal elimination half-life of 18.3+/-2.3 and 23.7+/-2.7 days and
showed a mean residence time of 21.7+/-1.1 and 23.0+/-0.8 days for the lower
and higher doses, respectively. The area under the serum T concentration-time
curve and the T-distribution value related to serum T concentration were
significantly higher following the 1,000-mg dose than following the 500-mg dose.
The 500-mg dose, when given as the second injection, yielded optimal
pharmacokinetics (defined as mean peak T values not exceeding the normal
range and persistence of normal levels for at least 7 weeks), suggesting that
repeated injections of 500 mg at 6-8-week intervals may provide optimal T
replacement. The mean serum levels of estradiol were normalized following the
injections, and prolactin levels were normal throughout the study. Significant
decrease of serum luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone
(FSH) levels was observed, with the decrease in LH levels being more
pronounced. There were no significant differences in serum LH and FSH levels
between the two doses. Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels before
any T therapy were near the upper limit of normal for adult men and were
reduced by approximately 50% just prior to the second dose of TU. The
decreased SHBG levels produced by the first TU injection could have led to
lower peak total T levels and to a more rapid clearance of T following the
second TU injection. We conclude that single-dose injections of TU to
hypogonadal men can maintain serum T concentration within the normal range
for at least 7 weeks without immediately apparent side effects. It is likely that
this form of T would require injections only at 6-8-week or longer intervals, not
at the 2-week intervals necessary with currently used T esters (enanthate and
cypionate). This injectable TU preparation may provide improved substitution
therapy for male hypogonadism and, in addition, may be developed as an
androgen component of male contraceptives.

Testosterone preparations producing constant physiological testosterone serum
levels are desirable for long-term treatment of androgen deficiency. However,
all injectable testosterone esters used clinically for substitution of male
hypogonadism are characterized by unfavourable pharmacokinetics. We
therefore tested two groups of five long-term orchidectomized cynomolgus
monkeys (Macaca fascicularis), which received a single intramuscular injection
of 10 mg/kg body weight of an injectable testosterone undecanoate (TU)
preparation or testosterone enanthate (TE) in a preclinical study to assess the
pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic characteristics of TU in comparison to
TE. The dose was equivalent to 6.3 and 7.2 mg of pure testosterone per
kilogram body weight in the TU and TE group, respectively. Following injection
of TU, mean serum testosterone rose to 58 +/- 18 nmol/l on day 1 and remained
at moderately supraphysiological levels of 40-68 nmol/l for 45 days. Thereafter,
testosterone levels were maintained in the normal range of intact monkeys for
another 56 days. The TE injection resulted in highly supraphysiological levels
of 100-177 nmol/l from immediately after the injection to day 5. A rapid decline
followed and testosterone levels reached the lower limit of normal after 31
days. Serum testosterone levels were significantly higher in the TE-than in the
TU-treated animals on days 0.5-7 (p < 0.05). Significantly lower testosterone
levels were seen in the TE than in the TU group on days 16, 22, 25 and 31 (p <
0.05).(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)