posted May 30, 2000 01:26 PM            

Each took 1/2cc of sust and will take another 1/2cc next week. Just sust, nothing else. Three basic reasons for the 1/2cc: They could split an amp and not have any extra left over; we all felt it would add a degree of saftey to spread the injections out a bit; and with her friend only being like 110, a full amp might be a touch to much - better safe than sorry as she gets great results from about half of the "normal" dose.

We also took some BF/weight measurements and will keep you all posted on the changes.

I could go into a few details on my "trimming" cycle but sufice it to say that I'm looking to drop a few fat pounds while increaseing some muscle. This is not an all out cutting or "see food" bulking cycle.
If I can gain a solid 10 pounds of mass while drop'en a jean size I'd be happy.

Late

Lobo

posted June 02, 2000 12:07 PM            

Yesterday the sust shots finally quit hurting them both. I was rather pleased and can't say didn't enjoy it a little. They would ALWAYS give be a ration after my big injections, now the shoe is on the other foot!!!

So far so good and nothing dramatic to report - as I would expect. Monday night will be round two.

Late

Lobo

posted June 02, 2000 12:31 PM            

Mmmmmmmm so you're taking 1/2cc a week too??? heh heh! Have fun, you should BLOW UP on that!!

posted June 02, 2000 02:40 PM            

Here is a break down of my cycle - may shorten the test portion to eight weeks, just have to see how it goes. And I may increase/decrease the sust or cyp depending on how long the ladies want to go on with the sust... Going to cut it close on my sust supply, but I've got plenty of cyp.

WK1 & WK2: 500mg sust, 250mg cyp, 400mg deca, 50mg dbol/day.

WK3=>WK10: 500mg sust, 250mg cyp, 400mg deca (will start T3 in WK 9)

WK11: 300mg Deca, 400mg primo

WK12: 300mg Deca, 400mg Primo

WK13: 400mg Primo

WK14: 400mg Primo

WK15: 400mg Primo

Clomid in the typical manner. Nolva on hand (knock on wood)

This is about a 30% increase in doseage over my last cycle, which I was very pleased with. Going to do a bit more cardio this time around as well as focus on my weaker body parts, arms, lower back, and hammies.

Bit on the fat side right now, but that's ok - I love the extra power and hell, I ain't getting on stage or anything. But still would like to drop about 10lbs and get into the lower teens. We'll see....

Got to run.... really, doing 1/2 miles for lunch. Well, walking most of the way :p

Late

Lobo

posted June 04, 2000 10:41 PM            

Could you tell me (if you know) how much of each Test ester is in Sustanon? Re-reading the original post it sounds like the ladies are getting 125mg per week, 2 amps per month. Is that right?

posted June 04, 2000 11:46 PM            

"Glycerin", my wife (get it... Nitro -Glycerin.... ) is about 135 right now and although I would not be opposed to giving her a full amp, why not just split between the two and not have any left-overs.

And per my usual advise, I like to go slow when a lady is doing a particular roid the first time. You must see how each person reacts. It takes time, but hey, we have all seen the mistakes on women and don't want to go there. Besides, they are both BBing Judges and are no longer competing, so no reason to get fricking massive or anything.

Sust comes in 250mg per cc and so yes MS, it would be 175mg and that is split up between four types of test.

We will all be injecting tomorrow - they will each get another 1/2cc. I suppose you could do 1/4 of an amp every week. No reason not to other than having that amp open for a long while. Unless your guy friend is going to use the other 3/4 of it.

Humm, what else. Not much really other than both are working out hard and doing the usual stuff. Except cardio, they both are NOT into that right now. I, on the other hand, have been doing the cardio thing for lunch and IT SUCKS A BIG FAT TURD!!! But on the up side I did 40 pull-ups on my Friday back workout - WHOOO HOOO. NO - not all at the same time :P But I did super set them with pull downs.

Late

posted June 05, 2000 02:37 AM            

Sustanon 250 (1 mL) equals:

30mg propionate. + 60mg phenylpropionate. + 60mg isocaporate + 100mg decanoate

So one shot is going to last for about a month as it is. Hypogonadal men might get to inject one ampule every second week to obtain 'average' serum test. levels.

The Peter-Pans could kindly stop reading now?

Amazons would probably have loved the stuff. One shot of 250mg per season (ie. 4 shots of 1mL per year) should do the trick? There supposedly is a scaled-down Sustanon available with a total of 100 mg/mL. Better to fool with the (smaller) dose first. What follows might be *too much* information:

If it helps, try to remember testosterone as an 'adult' hormone, and not just a 'male' hormone. ie. a shot of test. will produce maturation as expected of an adult. This includes voice changes. Contrast the differences between the (immature) voice of an adolescent girl who lacks harmonics versus the resonance of an authorative TV anchorwoman. 'Natural' testosterone/AAS and GH (and even some oral contraceptives) will do this better than any voice-coaching. Including some synthetic progestins made from analogs of 19-nortestosterone. One potent one was norgestrienone (Planor): made of trenbolone 17aa'd with vinyl -Lovely combo I'm sure... (facetious grin)

Anyhow, some of these maturation effects attributed to testosterone will come from the androgen receptor, and some from other paths. One of which is increased mean serum growth hormone concentrations (test. increases the amplitude of GH spikes). So testosterone and GH act synergistically to produce the entirely normal and desirable adolescent growth spurt. Non-aromatising androgens just don't seem to quite pass muster in this respect. (Keenan?)

It is an interesting item to point out that GH alone can mature (deepen) the voice and skin as acromegalic individuals often have Very resonant voices and thick coarser skin even if the brain tumor that makes this greatly excessive GH has wiped out their pituitary (and gonadal) function.

The virilizing effects of testosterone such as hairloss/gain, sebum production, etc. are thought to arise mostly from peripheral conversion by 5-alpha reductases to dihydrotestosterone -which has a different molecular shape, and a virilization potential much greater (some say 10x...) than unconverted testosterone. Molecular and Cellular Endocrinology, 88(1992) pg 15.

So try to slow the conversion to dihydrotestosterone. Finasteride can help.

Those AAS that initially start out in the 5-alpha-reduced form will Already retain some of these unpleasant skin and hair effects. Ex: Primo/winstrol/anavar and balding.

A final issue to skirt-around: Is 250mg of testosterone in one go a lot? Well, take a look in the thirteeth edition of the Merck Manual. Page 946 c. 1977: "If the mother is not going to breast feed for any reason, lactation can be suppressed by a variety of methods. The most popular and probably the most successful today is an IM injection of testosterone enanthate 360mg and estradiol valerate 16 mg given just after delivery of the infant and before the mother leaves the delivery room." ie. 4 mL of Deladumone. Twice in less than a month. <Gasp> That's food for thought. Since then this allegedly once-popular intervention has been dropped by reason of the estrogen overdose being implicated in provoking thromboemolism.

The postmenopausal (replacement) doses of testosterone range from 50 to 90 to 150mg/month, depending on the text and the company selling the medication. Look up "climacteron"? Most have estradiol ester mixed with them, which may or may not make a significant difference, as some testosterone always converts to estrogen anyhow. And the feedback is sure to confound the hypothalamus and normal gonadal function.

Advice? Test levels shouldn't remain elevated -the 'cycle' consists of only one injection please. Block DHT formation. Plus, one gets the GH response and the liver is guaranteed to stay healthy. Still, far from an ideal solution. There's gotta be a better way...back to the chemistry lab. Actually no -back to the venture-capitalists.
Know any who might be interested?

posted June 07, 2000 10:53 AM            

Both their butt cheeks are not as sore as last time - not sure why, mayhap because we did legs Monday night right after the injections.

Both ladies have noticed increased stamina and previous "max" workout poundage�s were increased last night (chest/tries/hams). Nitro is as hard as a rock and was somewhat taken back by the feeling,

"I was fricking pumped all day and couldn't stop poking my arm to see if would soften up...I LOVE IT."

So she is obviously rather pleased....

Glycerin as dropped close to five pounds - no change in diet to speak of. BF is to close to really tell anything yet. I figure the weight drop it is due to the more intense workouts. She did not want to stop last night and that was after a solid 60 min which included supersetting many exercises - so we did a few more things. Hell, I was right with her on that feeling.

I figured it took about a week before they felt much, but both are defiantly liking everything so far.

Sides have been nil - nothing - zip - nadda.
Will of course keep a close eye on things. Oh, shit there has been one side.... Wife and I have made love dern near every day and twice this week in the morning!! Now if that ain�t worth an amp of sust then I don't know what is!!! Course I've been late to work cause it messes up my whole morning routine, but hell, WHO CARES!

One other thing that we both noticed, she has been sleeping like a rock. And that is not like her at all. Typically she is a very light sleeper. Well, not for the last week. I mean she is out like a light. Could be a combination of many things, but is still something I wanted to point out.

OK... will keep you all updated as always.

Oh, we'll be taking off this Thurs through the weekend to go water skiing so you all better behave :p

Late

posted June 07, 2000 04:45 PM            

Nitro has used deca before, under the direction of a doc no less, and he gave her a fricking cc of the stuff right of the bat. Well, naturally, with her low tolerance, she developed some sides and is adamant about not using deca. Both have used anavar and primo. And I've just not wanted to use the winny as it's such a shot in the dark. Yes, one of our lady friends did stack the winny and primo. And put on some solid pounds, but halfway through she had just too much water retention and dropped the winny and backed off the primo a bit. So that left the new sust deal to try. Been watching the developments on several cases and have talked with a number of folks who have tried it so I felt very confident about using it.

On the water retention deal - not completely 100% if they are going to have that much. Test effects women differently than men when you consider the vast difference in dose. Most everyone I've talked with says that sust will tend to lean a women out. If this is the case, and I think it is, then a good cutting cycle would include a bit of test to retain the hard muscle, drop in a bit of nolva for them hip and glute areas, and then stack the clen/eca (or even the T3) and I got to figure you would have one fricking lean mean fighting machine!!!

So that's my plan should the "old lady" decide to step out and really want to get cut.

Any thoughts? Does this sound reasonable??

Late

posted June 08, 2000 01:49 PM            

It would work of course, just half to be very careful on the dose. Some will also use a faster acting test such as prop to maintain the max dose while keeping the sides in check. The faster acting test gives them the option of backing off the dose very quickly should things get hairy (pun intended). This does get a bit more tricky and I figure most ladies on this board are not into that realm. And multiple injections are not fun - especially with prop.

Late

posted June 13, 2000 07:17 PM            

Nitro is still hard as a rock and seems to get twice the results from 1/2 the "normal" dose. Glycerin biggest change has been endurance. We have seen about a 15 to 20% increase in workout weight during these three weeks. Nitro could not get more than 5 reps at a 135 squat for her last set, Monday she did 155 for 10. That's huge in my book. I had to stop Glycerin on Monday as she just kept going and did not even realize it. I sometimes workout separately, when I got back over to the leg area I asked, "Don't you think you did about 50% more than normal?" And she says, "Um, yah, I guess, but I was not feeling it yet." Now let me remind you all that we went water skiing, and if you do not know, it is one hell of a leg workout. And here she is rep'en out squats, hacks, extensions, presses, leg curls, and bent rows.... SHEEEESH!

Both were VERY tempted to do another 1/2cc. But as I've have stated many times, do not push the envelope when your doing something new and having some excellent success. They can be very persuasive - But I held!!!!

Zero sides - not one, nothing, zip and nadda.
Don't know what else to say except we'll continue to lift and watch.

And since you all are dyeing to know about my cycle, well, I must say it's going fabulous!

Late

Lobo

posted June 16, 2000 12:31 PM            

So read my posts on the thread and you should get a good idea of how and why we are doing this cycle.

The duration of the cycle can go on forever I guess. I don't know of any real reason why one would have to stop. It's not hard on the liver, does not suppress their natural test production as it does in men, and unless they have a bad reaction to it then what the heck.

But I figure they will go about 12 weeks. If your doing just one lady then you can inject one amp every four weeks. We all felt that 1/2 cc for the first two weeks would add a bit of safety as it was the first time each lady has used sust. And per my other posts, Nitro is VERY sensitive to every roid we used so far. So it was more for her that we spread the dose out a bit. Glycerin I think would have no problem with a full amp, but that would have left Nitro with 1/2 an unused amp. So they went 50/50 and there ya have it.

I think a bitching stack would be to add in anavar, which is on the way. Or of course if your feeling froggy, toss in a bit of primo or winny - if ya like winny

Ok, will have another update next week!

Late

Lobo

posted June 20, 2000 02:28 PM            

Well, I wish I had some dramatic, earth shattering news, but I don't. Everything is going very smooth. Did another 1/2 cc and all I can say is full steam ahead.

As far as the sides, Glycerin has been having some night sweats of late - which may just be the result of the more intense work outs. Other than that, nothing.

I'm starting to see some new cuts. This weekend while I was spotting Glycerin on her pull-ups I noticed some new ones on her upper back. BTW, she was supper setting 135 deads with pull-ups - think she was about ready to kick me for suggesting it. But I was impressed, she did four full sets of each with ten reps on both. I did have to spot a few last reps on the chins and I stopped her on the eight rep on the last set of deads cause she lost form - rounded her back a bit. FYI, sumo style on the deads.

Weight has been steady for Glycerin while Nitro has gain about five pounds (she wanted to put some on so she is eating like a small hippo) We are going to do a BF tonight and see where we all are. My feeling is that Nitro's legs have started to finally grow and Glycerin has dropped a % or two on the BF, but we'll see.....

Late

posted June 21, 2000 04:46 PM            

Wk 4 & 5 1/2 cc. Skip Wk 6.

Wk 7 & 8 1/2 cc. Skip Wk 9.

Wk 10 & 11 1/2 cc for the last injection which will naturally taper over the last four weeks.

So that is the plan. If we do happen to see some sides, I would just wait a week to lower the overall blood level.

As a side note we did the BF last night. Glycerin looks to be down a slight bit and her wieght is up close to three pounds.

Nitro is up a solid five pounds (did I call that one!) and looks to be a 1% up on the BF. But the damn cheesy BF calipers are not all that good. I just take into concideration the general direction.

Like I've mentioned, they really like the resutls and the direction this cycle is taking them in only three full weeks. (starting the fourth of course)

So far we're down about, oh, what, say $30 bucks for both of them - not to shabby in my book.

Late

posted June 21, 2000 06:47 PM            

You and all these people who are educated about this topic are probably rolling your eyes into your heads and chuckling to yourselves, but that's OK, I'm a big girl and I can take it.

posted June 21, 2000 07:10 PM            

BUT (there's always a but)women tend to naturally improve their muscle mass up into their 40's if they're lucky, so there's no reason to think that you couldn't at least maintain some of the benfits gained from AAS for many years after discontinuing. Maybe even improve. Of course if you use pro quantities of the stuff, that' a different story. And you have to be meticulous with your eating habits off-cycle because your body will go back into more of a fat-storage mode compared to when taking AAS.

posted June 23, 2000 01:00 PM            

And YES, it Is a big blow to loose natural HPTA function (and vigor) even if just temporarily. The bigger trouble comes with trying to accept and then explain *what's missing* first to oneself, and then to one's physician. Even if the proof is in a repetitive list of subnormal blood-tests. It is Really nasty to watch oneself rot. Better to accept chemical crutches than to limp along through life.

Since the range for so-called normal serum T levels in males is wide (from 280ng/dL to about 1400ng/dL) a guy could be disappointed with therapy that only restored levels to a midline average value. Just dunno.

Could we debate causes of 'muscle-memory' (and maybe also 'fat-memory') in a new posting? Would there be a small degree of fiber hyperplasia (by stimulation of IGF's/GH etc...) or is muscle memory simply a matter of stretched facia etc?

posted June 26, 2000 11:32 AM            

Lets see, is this week five? Yah, week five and another 1/2 cc. for Nitro. However, this time I gave Glycerin 3/4 cc. ( I used up the rest of the sust for myself) I felt Glycerin was not getting the full benefits and should have no problem with a touch more.

Nitro did develop some slight acne two days after her last injection and a day before she got her M cycle. She also said her skin was a touch more oily. Now this could all just be a coincidence with her having her period and all. But we did take some measures to clear up the minor acne. Strictly over the counter stuff at this point though, and all seems to be ok.

Glycerin is free and clear of any sides - except we do seem to be a bit more active in the bedroom. Hehehe... Well, lest you forget, I'm hitting the stride in my cycle as well and this dose tend to make me a bit more on the horny side....

Workouts have continued to be impressive with across the board improvements in most every lift. Sometimes it is hard to tell exactly how things are going compared to when you off because the tempo gets kicked up higher, we do more super setting, and tend to last longer in the gym. You just know that IT'S GOING GREAT.
Yes we do try to keep a good log during the workouts, but we will not break the intensity just to write down every little thing.

So there ya have week five. I must say I'm very impressed with how well everything is going. I didn't think it would be as smoth as it is so far. And the cost factor is really cool too! That last anavar cycle was spendy. But my package arrived over the weekend (Wooo Hoooo!!!!) and we are going to talk about stacking the anavar with the sust. But that's a bit off in the future and a whole new thread

Late

posted July 05, 2000 07:49 PM            

Nitro is up two more pounds, while Glycerin is a solid 144 this morning for an overall gain of 9 thus far. She has mixed feelings about this as her shorts and tops are getting tight. Her arms are FINALLY starting to respond and more than a few folks have noticed this.

Although we've not done her BF this week, I figure she is about the same as last time. Remember all, they are not doing ANY cardio, none.... (except as noted below)

Strength has been continuing to improve. Over the weekend she did a modified pyramid squats of:

65 x 20
95 x 20
105 x 20
120 x 20
135 x 20 with me spotting and assisting the last three reps.

I was rather freaked out by this - hell I can't hardly even do 20 rep squats

We continue to watch for any sides - and so far - so very good. Nitro's acne has subsided and we figure is was just the combo of her M. cycle and the extra bit of test float'en around.

As a whole, we all have been rather open on this board about some otherwise very private and personal stuff, even shared photos and such. Well.... I'm not sure how to put this... sort of embarrass... Oh what the hell....

I tossed in the towel this past Sunday night. (we both did not have to work Monday) After TWO AND A HALF FRICKING SOLID hours of love making I HAD TO QUIT - just could not go on... I was done, empty, drained and in every fashion unable to move, speak, or respond.... Then, Tues, after 90 min, if the our friends didn't call and invite us over for food, I would have again been limper than an over-cooked pasta noodle!

If this tempo continues I'm going to PULL THE TEST!!!! She is just a machine with the "on" switch hard wired... I'm afraid to take my clothes off.... It is even scaring the cats.

So be warned ladies and germs.... Be careful for what you wish for....

Ok, I have to leave and quickly change into my workout clothes before she get home.

Late

Lobo

posted July 06, 2000 02:43 PM            

Glycerin is my wife and is whom I'm refering to in the above post.

That being said, Nitro as also been experiencing the same condition.

This does lead the mind to some interesting possiblities... But I know in the long run things would trun to shit and would end up losing a good friend and a wife. Not worth it one bit.... And like I could even keep up to boot :p

Ok, I got to run, wife called and wants to meet for "lunch" at home no less.... shheeeeesh. I'm bringing a white towel to toss in just in case.

LAte

posted July 10, 2000 05:04 PM            

Another 1/2 cc for each. All is going very well. Strenght continues to increase for both. Nitro ended a bench set with 135 for 10 reps - somthing she has never ever done. Glycerin did 10 reps of 135 on her last set of stiff legged dead lifts - now that turned more than a few heads in the gym! Her form was to the tee, I was ready to yell at any moment, "Rack It" if I saw ANY break in form.

She is also up another 2/3 pounds and we both think it is time to incorporate a bit of cardio - else she ain't going to have any cloths to wear! We figure to continue the cycle another few weeks - untill the USA's in Vegas. And now would be a good time to cut up a tad.

We, that's about all folks. No sides to mention other than what I've already mentioned. Oh, Glycerin did get her M Cycle last week. Was fairly normal - just late.

LAte

posted July 18, 2000 02:49 PM            

This is T.B., we interrupt your regular scheduled program to bring you this latest news update ....We take you live, to our on-the-seen reporter, Lobo, who is following the progress of the test subjects....

-----

"Thanks T.B. It is now week eight of this experiment involving two female individuals taking a highly controversial substance called Sustanon 250. If you don't know, this is a synthetic testosterone blended steroid used by male athletes to increase stamina and muscle mass. So far we've seen none of the grossly hyped and over reported side effects normally thought to be connected with this type of steroid. The dosing level is currently 1/2cc for one subject, and approximately 3/4cc for the other - every other week.

"T.B., I was allowed an exclusive interview with both ladies just yesterday and was amazed at their positive response.... T.B., back to you in the studio...."

-----

"Simply shocking Lobo. And how are the the ladies doing, are they becoming extremely masculine - as one would expect when taking such a powerful steroid?"

-----

"That has absolutely not been the case T.B. They both mentioned to me in the exclusive interview that they both still felt very feminine. Yes, they did say they were building new muscle and found their strength to be, in their words T.B., "fantastic!"

-----

"So in their own words they are becoming muscle bound like men. Is that correct Lobo?"

-----

"Not at all T.B. Both ladies were extremely adamant about stating the 9 to 14 pound gains were quite beneficial in making them look more shapely over all. Although they did say that some of the gains were what is know in the business as "water gain". In addition, one of the ladies, know as Glycerin has started doing cardio."

-----

"So this Glycerin is getting fat?"

-----

"No T.B. What happens is they go through a "bulking phase" to build muscle, then, later into the cycle, they add in more cardio to lean up and so you see the definition of the new muscle better."

-----

"How long do you foresee this experiment continuing Lobo?"

-----

"All indications seem to point to a 12 week cycle T.B. And I might add, that there was a rumor about adding in another steroid called Anavar. They call this a "stack". When I posed this question in my exclusive interview with them, both stated that this was not the case and that their "advisor" decided not to push the envelope on this experiment."

-----

"Lobo, does this leaves the door wide open for additional experiments?"

-----

"It certainly sounds like it from all the indications I'm seeing down here at ground zero T.B. The results have thus far been so overwhelmingly positive that I don�t see how, or why, they would not do another. Back to you in the studio T.B.�

-----

�Excellent reporting Lobo.�

-----

�Thank you T.B.�

-----

�And there you have from our on-the-seen reporter, Lobo who�s exclusive interview with two participants in a steroid experiment has confirmed the drastic masculine side effects of this highly controversial drug know as Sustanon 250. Please join us at 6 and 10 for our special report on �Steroids, not just the breakfast of men anymore� and 'Women on gear, can we survive the duel effects of roid rage and PMS?' This is T.B., we now return you to your regular scheduled broadcast.�

[This message has been edited by WarLobo (edited July 18, 2000).]

posted July 18, 2000 03:04 PM            

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Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!

posted July 18, 2000 04:16 PM            

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Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit.

posted July 25, 2000 08:21 PM            

Nitro is also doing very well and even though she says she has a bit more acne on her shoulders - I can't see much of anything.

So we are all getting ready for the Vegas NPC and think this was a fine way to end a cycle.

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Late

Lobo

posted July 26, 2000 10:58 AM            

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Late

posted July 26, 2000 11:00 AM            

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Late