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Author	Topic: Milk
Dawn Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 85)	posted May 29, 2000 11:05 AM I love milk. I have to have a glass in the morning with my eggs and gritts. My fiance said that even though I drink fat free milk, it is high in sugars and is very bad for my diet...any thoughts? IP: Logged
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 677)	posted May 29, 2000 03:36 PM I'm guessing that when you say 'diet', you mean fat-loss diet? If so, then there's nothing wrong with milk as part of a mixed meal, as long as you don't have any subtle allergies to it. The only two things to consider about milk are 1) It's got calories, especially carbohydrates so you have to factor them into the overall diet plan; and 2) It's relatively high in sodium (compared to an equivalent amount of carbs and protein from, say, egg whites and grits alone). I know there are other people out there who are 'anti-milk' on a diet, and I'm sure we'll hear from them after the long weekend. Personally I don't recommend milk to dieting clients because it's just not as filling as the same calories from, say a chicken breast on brown rice and vegies. ------------------ The Mad Scientist IP: Logged
WarLobo Moderator (Total posts: 1098)	posted May 30, 2000 10:33 AM Milk... Has to be one of the most debated drinks on the boards. I like it and mix all my protein drinks with it. So I figure I toss back about a quart per day. Yes it may have some sugars and blah blah blah, but for some strange reason most every animal on Earth seems to start out with it so it can't be all that bad. And if your cutting all the processed sugars out of your diet - which I KNOW MOST OF YOU DO NOT :P Then a bit of milk ain't going to amount to a hill of beans. LAte Lobo IP: Logged
JayeLynn Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 289)	posted May 30, 2000 01:29 PM I used to have a chiropractor that believed that milk was a bad thing for everybody. She had her kids on fruit juices instead and all of them have rotten teeth. The only sensible documentation I've seen on milk consumption comes from Peter D'Adamo in his "Eat Right 4 Your Diet" book. He breaks milk and everything down based upon blood type. Some people find his work hokey: I thought it was pretty consistent with my experiences (both personally and through others). He claims that persons with B blood type are the only ones well adapted to dairy products. The others substantially less adapted to varying degrees depending upon which blood type. If you would like to pursue that any more, I have the book and you can email me with your questions. IP: Logged
Dawn Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 85)	posted June 18, 2000 01:06 AM When I say diet, I do mean for fat loss. I recently had a baby and I am trying very hard to lose the last little bit of fat to be where I used to be. Then it will be a whole other story. I guess one glass a day wont hurt. Thanks IP: Logged
IronChick Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 89)	posted June 21, 2000 11:00 PM Sugar isn't the only problem with milk. It's all the crap tht is injected into it. I don't drink it because I am allergic to it. Most adults have problems breaking down lactose. True, they give milk to babies, but it may not be good for adults. For another perspective on milk, go see www.nomilk.com. ------------------ {{-}} IP: Logged
SassyS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 125)	posted June 22, 2000 02:45 PM I have also heard that milk can add to mucus build-up in your sinuses. I'm allergic to milk, it stinks, cuz I really enjoy the taste and it has so much protein in it. Can't though, I break out in hives IP: Logged
bsjohnson Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 187)	posted June 23, 2000 12:37 AM Okay, i'm not a big fan of milk. But i use to use the fat free milk for my grapnuts. But what do ya'll think about the soy milk. Just started using it for my grapenuts.. its a lot lower in suger. OH, ironchick, do they inject shit into soymilk to. I hope not. IP: Logged
IronChick Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 89)	posted June 23, 2000 04:33 PM BS - I think you'll be OK with soy. Any material I read about milk allergy always recommends soy as a cow's milk alternative. Unfortunate for me...I'm allergic to soy, also. ------------------ {{-}} IP: Logged
JayeLynn Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 289)	posted June 23, 2000 04:45 PM rice milk is another alternative. Those who have tried it have claimed to prefer it over soy due to the texture. ------------------ Feel Free to Underestimate me IP: Logged
Sprkysgrrl Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 5)	posted June 23, 2000 06:24 PM Soy protein isn't as readily absorbed into the body as once thought, so be careful when thinking that you are actually getting all of that protein. And just make sure you are getting your calcium, no matter where you get it!! Spark IP: Logged
IronChick Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 89)	posted June 23, 2000 06:43 PM Sprky, I think you're confusing the topic - we're talking about soy milk (not soy protein) as an alternative for people who can't drink cow's milk or don't want to. Personally, I don't drink any milk products or any of their alternatives - just don't like the taste of most - and wouldn't consider them as a serious protein source, anyway. If you check out that URL I posted you'll find plenty of alternatives, but you might also get disgusted and not want to drink milk anymore. Maybe you shouldn't look at it... ------------------ {{-}} IP: Logged
riptchick Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 258)	posted June 23, 2000 07:08 PM I don't really have a preference either way for milk. I think both sides have some valid points. Personally I use it in my myoplex when I need to up the protein and calories and it doesn't seem to bother me; however I did check out that nomilk website and clicked onto the JULIE BERNSTEIN don't drink your milk page and it did contain some points that I would argue--the part about most Americans consume way, way too much protein. I think the author would be more correct in saying most Americans consume way, way too much fat and empty non-nutrient rich calories. The author (correct me if I'm wrong) is making a connection between excessive amounts of protein and Osteoporosis as an argument to steer away from dairy products. I have no stance on the subject milk vs. no milk because I haven't researched the subject thoroughly enough to make an educated opinion either way but I do know when I need a little bit more protein in my shake it does the trick nicely. I guess I need to look at the matter a little more closely. IP: Logged
Sprkysgrrl Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 5)	posted June 23, 2000 07:46 PM No confusion here. The protein in soy milk is soy protein, no matter wich way you look at it. And I grew up on a dairy and hog farm, so I doubt that that web site would steer me away from anything at all. Worse than PETA with all the hype and unstudied half truths. IP: Logged
IronChick Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 89)	posted June 23, 2000 09:14 PM I am not particularly on a soapbox about milk - but I put my two cents so I guess I gotta continue. There IS a lot of crap being injected into the milk supply....growth hormone, tons of antibiotics. That stuff with Monsanto and the FDA....this is not "unstudied half truth." This is old stuff that many people know about. That's why some milk suppliers have the "No RBGH" labels on them. They are giving it credibility by acknowledging its existence. Just because you grew up on a farm doesn't mean this stuff is not really happening and it's hype. I know a man who grew up on a farm and does NOT drink milk because he believes it is implicated in arthritis among other things. I am sure there is plenty on that site that is up for debate, as in any topic. I put it out there because there are some things going on in the milk industry that people should be aware of when deciding if they want to drink it. I like to know what is being put into my food supply, so I can decide if I want it in my body. The thing that concerns me the most is all the anitbiotics. That would be my #1 reason for avoiding it. I think it's bad - you think it's good - so? we disagree. ------------------ {{-}} IP: Logged
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 677)	posted June 24, 2000 01:11 AM When all the dust has cleared, you will find that milk is just another food. Some people will be allergic to it, others won't drink it for other reasons. I can't believe that milk has any more 'impurities' than other commonly available foods including most meats and chicken, (also full of antibiotics, steroids (oh horrors) etc...). And unless the soybeans they make the soymilk from are guaranteed organic and GMO free, they also could be full of interesting stuff. And how about them fishes swimming in that there ocean? Fish love to store toxins in their flesh! I don't drink milk because of allergies, but I do not discourage my clients from consuming dairy products based on my reactions. As part of a balanced bodybuilding diet I think it is a first class source of nutrients, especially trim milk, cottage cheese and yoghurts. Of course the milk in NZ is a little less adulterated...... There used to be 'organic' milk available for a price. I'm sure there are still dairy farmers that cater for people who don't want all the 'extras' in their milk, just as there are 'free range' eggs, and 'Biogrow' meat producers. IP: Logged
IronChick Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 89)	posted June 24, 2000 01:03 PM Well, I didn't want to open that can of worms about our food supply in general being adulterated since I think I was already starting to sound fanatical (ie: the PETA reference - heh heh), but it certainly is. This altering of the food supply is implicated in all of these food allergies, sensitivities, and intolerances that people have now. I buy all organic veggies and chicken and all the specialty foods that don't have all the extras in them. Plus, I go through a lot of trouble cleaning my veggies and fruits in a home made solution. I don't drink milk or eat raw fish (had a bout with parasites - another ugly "food" problem people don't like to talk about). So, I go through a lot of trouble, expense and elaborate procedures which may be considered overboard, but I do feel a lot better eating cleaner foods. And, yes, it is impossible to completely avoid impurities. You would have to stop breathing and move to another planet. I think you just have to do the best you can to avoid the more tampered with foods and processed foods. People may be blase about it because it's overwhelming and they feel they have no control over it, but there are steps that can be taken to minimize these "extras" that our bodies have no idea what to do with. There are other things you can do to to create a better environment in your digestive system, too, but they require more lifestyle changes and new habits that may be considered a pain to most. ------------------ {{-}} IP: Logged
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 677)	posted June 25, 2000 04:02 PM Oh yes, a can of worms. I'm glad to see you weren't singling out milk as the only criminal in the food chain. But I feel a little off-topic at this point and wonder if food purity might make an excellent new post? It should certainly be controversial enough to be entertaining! IP: Logged
The Dude Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 255)	posted August 10, 2000 08:02 PM Steroids in beef and chicken? Nope. If a company or individual would do that, they would end up in a federal prison. I work for a poultry company and, believe me, upper management does not plan on ending up in jail. ------------------ Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. IP: Logged
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 677)	posted August 10, 2000 08:36 PM Hey Dude, not as ridiculous as you think. Here's just one abstract I pulled off medline, there's plenty more if you're interested.... Anabolic-androgenic steroids are widely misused in human sports and are also used as growth promoters in livestock. Athletes who consume meat containing such hormone residues may risk failing a sports drug test. Prompted by an athlete's defense case, we questioned whether the consumption of small livestock given doses of anabolic steroid, orally or intramuscularly, could generate positive results in samples tested by our analytical procedures. We analyzed urine from eight men who consumed chickens that had been either fed with methenolone acetate (1 mg/day) from day 0 to 21 or injected with methenolone heptanoate depot (1 mg/intramuscular injection) on days 0, 7, and 14 and slaughtered on day 22. No methenolone or characteristic major metabolite was detected in samples from subjects who ate meat from the orally dosed chickens. However, 50% of the samples collected 24 h after consumption of the intramuscularly dosed chickens were confirmed positive. Hence, eating meat containing small amounts of injected hormone may constitute a serious liability to the athlete. ------------------ The Mad Scientist IP: Logged
bikinimom Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 465)	posted August 10, 2000 09:06 PM ..You tellin' me I may not be a natty after all?....Sheesh IP: Logged
The Dude Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 255)	posted August 10, 2000 09:13 PM Trust me, they're not putting steroids in chicken feed. The article is only telling you what is possible, I'm telling you what is happening (or, in this case, isn't happening). IP: Logged
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 677)	posted August 10, 2000 10:42 PM So you don't think they inject cattle with steroids?? IP: Logged
The Dude Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 255)	posted August 10, 2000 11:03 PM I'm not as up to date on cattle, but if it's for human consumption and they do, they better not get caught. Prison awaits... ------------------ Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. IP: Logged
Fitnes1 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 202)	posted August 11, 2000 08:49 AM JayeLynn - I sent you an e/m ques. about the book. Thanks! ------------------ IP: Logged
JayeLynn Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 289)	posted August 11, 2000 01:16 PM I'm always hearing about the evils of consuming meats in which the animals were injected with steroids, growth hormones, etc. I have no doubt that livestock is subjected to various injections for growth and such, but my question is .... Does anyone really know what becomes of the steroids in a cow once 'metabolized?' and what effect consuming that byproduct really has on the human body?? ------------------ Feel Free to Underestimate me IP: Logged
The Dude Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 255)	posted August 11, 2000 07:28 PM Ok, just to make sure, I asked a man from the cattle industry today about steroids. Same as chickens (and swine, and anything else that ends up on our plates)...they are NOT used. It is a federal crime. Plus, I was remiss in my earlier post in that I failed to mention that antibiotics are quickly being fazed out as feed additives. This is not for human safety in consumption of that meat, but to try limit the rate at which bacteria are building a resistance to our antibiotics. One last time for all to understand: Your meat products DO NOT contain steroids. ------------------ Be alert...the world needs more lerts. IP: Logged
WarLobo Moderator (Total posts: 1098)	posted August 11, 2000 10:32 PM I only buy meat that has been injected with roids.... HEY, every little bit helps :p ------------------ LAte Lobo IP: Logged
The Dude Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 255)	posted August 12, 2000 08:47 AM He shoots...he scores!!! ------------------ Be alert...the world needs more lerts. IP: Logged
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 677)	posted August 12, 2000 07:13 PM I'm guessing that Dude is speaking about meat in the USA? I don't know alot about US meat, but a quick search on recent work on US cattle came up with lots of stuff along these lines.... TITLE: Implant strategies during feeding: impact on carcass grades and consumer acceptability [In Process Citation] AUTHORS: Roeber DL; Cannell RC; Belk KE; Miller RK; Tatum JD; Smith GC AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Department of Animal Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort Collins 80523-1171, USA. SOURCE: J Anim Sci 2000 Jul;78(7):1867-74 TITLE: Effects of energy intake, implantation, and subcutaneous fat end point on feedlot steer performance and carcass composition. AUTHORS: Hermesmeyer GN; Berger LL; Nash TG; Brandt RT Jr AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Department of Animal Sciences, University of Illinois, Urbana 61801, USA. SOURCE: J Anim Sci 2000 TITLE: Use of infrared thermography to detect inflammation caused by contaminated growth promotant ear implants in cattle. AUTHORS: Spire MF; Drouillard JS; Galland JC; Sargeant JM AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Food Animal Health and Management Center, College of Veterinary Medicine, Kansas State University, Manhattan 66506, USA. SOURCE: J Am Vet Med Assoc 1999 Nov 1;215(9):1320-4 Of course on a world-wide scale, the research is even more extensive (what do you think they make Finaplex for besides helping bodybuilders grow bigger muscles?). It seems strange to me that researchers in America would spend time and money finding ways to identify contaminated implants if they weren't using implants. Maybe they only use implants on meat destined for export! IP: Logged
The Dude Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 255)	posted August 12, 2000 07:44 PM Did you read the articles? If you would have, you would have found that the implants were not referring to steroids, but growth hormones (like the pros use!). That's a whole different ball of wax. Remember the one time "uproar" from certain leftist groups over BST use in Holsteins? They're not a legitimate health concern regardless what the Europeans think. Their concern lies in their inability to compete with the U.S.'s low animal production costs. Our meat and milk is not going to hurt you, kill you off at an earlier age, make you sprout an extra limb, or make you have two-headed pig-snouted babies. It does a body good! ------------------ It tastes like burning. Ralph - The Simpsons IP: Logged
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 677)	posted August 12, 2000 08:15 PM I have no fear of contaminants (other than than the sort that give you food poisoning). I am just pointing out what can intentionally be added to your food chain by meat producers greedy for more meat in less time. And yes, I did read those articles, and many more. Here's a list of the implants they mentioned in those articles (plus a few extras). As long as the consumers are informed, I have no problem with these growth promoters. Synovex-C� Synovex-C�contains estradiol benzoate (72% estradiol) and progesterone. Synovex-C� is recommended for use in suckling beef calves weighing up to approximately 400 pounds. Synovex-C� may be used in both steer and heifer calves, including one-time use in beef heifers intended for later breeding. Revalor-G� Revalor-G� contains trenbolone acetate (synthetic androgen) and estradiol in a slow-release delivery system that increases rate of weight gain in pasture cattle (slaughter, stocker, and feeder steers and heifers). Ralgro� Zeranol, the active drug in Ralgro�, is a chemical derivative of resorcylic acid lactone fermentation product, having estrogenic properties. Ralgro� is used to increase the rate of weight gain and improve feed conservation in growing cattle, feedlot heifers, feedlot steers, weaned calves, and suckling calves. Ralgro� has been approved for one-time use in beef heifers intended for later breeding. Ralgro Magnum� Ralgro Magnum� contains twice the active compound, zeranol, as compared to Ralgro�. Magnum� is used to increase rate of weight gain in steers fed in confinement for slaughter. Because of the increase in zeranol level, Magnum� is reported to have a longer growth-promoting effect than Ralgro�. Synovex-S� Synovex-S� contains estradiol benzoate (72% estradiol) and progesterone. Synovex-S� is recommended for use in steers weighing 400 pounds or more. When properly administered, these implants can help increase rate of weight gain and improve feed efficiency.1 Synovex-H� Synovex-H� contains estradiol benzoate (72% estradiol) and testosterone propionate. Synovex-H� is recommended for use in heifers weighing 400 pounds or more. When properly administered, these implants can help increase the rate of weight gain and improve feed efficiency.1 Compudose 200� Compudose 200� is a silicone rubber implant containing estradiol and is coated with not less than 0.5 mg of oxytetracycline powder as a local antibacterial. Compudose 200� is intended for increased rate of weight gain in suckling and pastured growing steers and for improved feed efficiency and increased rate of weight gain in confined steers and heifers. Encore� Encore� is a silicone rubber implant containing estradiol, with a similar coating and animal approval to Compudose 200�. It contains significantly more estradiol than Compudose 200� and is reported to have a longer growth-promoting effect. Finaplix-H� Finaplix-H� contains a synthetic androgen, trenbolone acetate. Trenbolone acetate has been shown to have 8-10 times the growth-promoting ability of an equal amount of testosterone. Finaplix-H� increases the rate of weight gain and improves feed efficiency in growing finishing heifers.2 Revalor-H� Revalor-H� contains both estradiol and trenbolone acetate for increased rate of weight gain and improved feed efficiency in a slow-release delivery system in heifers. Synovex Plus� Synovex Plus� contains both estradiol benzoate (72% estradiol) and trenbolone acetate. Synovex Plus� is recommended for improved feed efficiency in steers fed in confinement for slaughter. Revalor-S� Revalor-S� contains both estradiol and trenbolone acetate, which increases the rate of weight gain and improves feed efficiency in a slow-release delivery system in steers.2 IP: Logged

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