posted May 01, 2000 10:54 AM            

BTW, LadyJaye, what info did you find?

posted May 01, 2000 01:33 PM            

AS for Mrs. Texas Guns question - a rundown of what info I found:
ADIPOKINETIX
contains 1R,2S Norephedrine HCI (supposed to be less jittery-causing than ephedra, and safer)
Yohimbe HCI (supposed to help with stubborn fat in lower body ie;love handles, saddlebags - also supposed to raise your libido!)
Caffeine abt. 90mg
Syntrax, the makers, reccomend supplementing with guggulbolic which I was going to do to raise metabolism
Adipokinetix is cheaper for a larger supply 23.95 for 180 caps but if you supplement with Guggubolic or Triax then it's more.

MD6
contains the norephedrine, caffeine and yohimbine for the same reasons as adipo but slightly higher doses of caffeine (10mgs. more) and yohimbine (2.5 mgs. more)
But MD6 also contains:
Guggul extract - for the raised metabolism
Alpha lipoic acid - increases insulin sensitivity and glucose utilization
L-tyrosine - supports thyroid function and is a precursor to T3
this is a little more expensive than adipo but it contains more including the guggul which I would have supplemented with anyway.
$26.65 for 120 caps

posted May 01, 2000 04:38 PM            

Mrs. TG

posted May 02, 2000 11:40 PM            

Late

posted May 03, 2000 01:53 AM            

How long does this effect appear to last? Do the fat cells which are over-populated with alpha-2 fill up very quickly afterwards?

Is there something else that might work to address the problem better? ie. down-regulate production of these excess alpha-2 receptors rather than blocking them?

posted May 03, 2000 11:59 AM            

LAte

posted May 03, 2000 01:07 PM            

Mrs. TG

posted May 13, 2000 05:04 PM            

As an aside on the guggles, the real world results are not very impressive even if it's extracted to Syntrax's or Biotest's "highest standards". (LOL) It certainly is good for lowering cholesterol though.

And if you're not TOTALLY bored by this subject yet, then I'll tell you a little bedtime story about Yohimbine. The human studies that have benn done with this stuff showed it could improve lipolysis by acting on alpha-2 receptors. But the outcome of these studies indicated

1) A dose of 0.2mg/kg was optimal as a single dose
2) The dose should be administered on an empty stomach 15-30 minutes before exercise. (Increased insulin levels/blood glucose antagonise the effect of the Yohimbine).

With those two findings in mind it doesn't make any sense to me to divide the dose of yohimbine over 2-3 servings per day, especially when 2 of those servings may not be on an empty stomach. In other words, maybe better to hit it first thing and hit it hard and then lay of the yohimbine for the rest of the day.

BTW 0.2mg/kg works out to 12 mg for a 130 lb person

posted May 16, 2000 08:48 PM            

And if your in the mood for a bit of science, you should visit http://www.mesomorphosis.com/exclusive/gundill/thyroid.htm
for a good 'lay'interpretation of the differences between T3 and Triac.

posted May 17, 2000 03:13 PM            

From a practical standpoint, if you want to use thyroid meds I would suggest that you increase your A/S intake to coincide with the start of the meds. A good cutting cycle would ideally start out with the lowest A/S dose that will preserve muscle and gradually increase to a maximum near the end of the cycle, which is also when you would throw in the T3/Triac and clenbuterol.

Well that's one opinion anyway.

P.S. Just re-read WW's last post and thought it was worth pointing out that A/S do not prevent the shutdown of the thyroid. They actually cause a decrease in thyroid function even when you're not dieting which is why many Pro Bodybuilders take year round low-dose T3. But that's really a subject for another day.

posted May 18, 2000 03:49 PM            

Yohimbine is an agonist at pre-synaptic alpha-2 adrenoreceptors. Unlike the Beta adrenoreceptors there are no pharmacologically distinct subclasses of alpha receptors (although there has recently been found a post-synaptic alpha-2 receptor). Yohimbine would not work for fat mobilization if these receptors were down-regulated since it's fat mobilizing effects are a result of stimulating these receptors. A better question would be 'is there a way we can up-regulate these receptors?' And I don't know the answer to that one.

As for Beta-3 antagonists, I hope you're referring to the likes of ephedrine and norephedrine. If so then the answer is yes, there is plenty of experience with those drugs on this board. Both these drugs mimic the effects of adrenaline/epinephrine and stimulate increased brown fat metabolism (via blockade of beta-3 recptors).

Clear as mud?

posted May 18, 2000 06:05 PM            

I'd start the Nolvadex at least a month before you want to look your best. It takes longer to kick-in than something like T3. Go for 20 mg per day. As for the thyroid in all of this, I'm emailing you some more info (since you want to do it right).

posted May 31, 2000 04:22 PM            

There are NO published studies on the use of usnic acid (that I can find)as a weight loss agent. It's a good antimicrobial, and may have some applications in arresting certain cancers, but it is also suspected of being a mitogen and could well be mutagenic/carcinogenic if abused.

I have no plans to use DNP or Usnic acid, but then I'm not desperate to lose weight at any cost to my health.