>On another note, I've been struggling with another topic and would really
>like to bounce my thought process off you.
>
>As you may remember, my girlfriend is substantially overweight (235).....mostly
>due to poor dietary habits, and partly due to some major injuries. I met you all on elite
researching
>the possibilities of using steroids to help build the strength back when
>the Dr.s told her that they couldn't offer any more than pain pills. Well,
> I still wonder about the steroids in her case, but my understanding of
>the problem has grown.
>
>Since Thanksgiving one year ago, we have made some tremendous progress with
>respect to quality of life. She isn't restricted to bed rest at all whereas
>she had been nearly ?40-60% of the waking day....every day! She rarely
>takes pain meds: is off the asthma meds: is off the prozac: and is eating
>more than once per day. Core strength has increased in her hips and abs
>especially. She does various weight routines which typically fall to a mix of cardio and circuit training. ...about 4-5 days a week. Strength gains have been tapered by the aftermath of un-rehab'd injuries. Although her set-backs are less frequent, they still occur on a regular basis. (shoulder has been trampled by a bull, both knees broken by horses, forearm is held together by plates and screws, elbow was butchered by Kaiser moving an impinged nerve, and then there is the low back. The newest injury is probably 10-15 years old)
>
>She isn't losing any weight.
(okay, so maybe she's gained 10 pounds in muscle which means that she would have lost 10 pounds of fat ....in a year +)
Her body just cannot support that weight, and this has been a vicious cycle.
>
>After about the first 9 months of trying to get her weight down, I began
>to re-evaluate all of the variables. What I found was that
>1. if the meal wasn't big enough to be considered a meal, she didn't count
>it.
>2. She appears to have a chemical imbalance (bear with me on this one a minute)
>Now, we have been working on #1 quite a bit. As for #2, we had some
interesting
>results with a faddish suppliment that combined some vitamins and minerals. The mix is what appeared to make a difference.
> She immediately started losing weight about 1.5# per week. (we had tried
>ECA in that first 9 months to no avail.) Then we went into the yo-yo thing.
> This is all pretty typical stuff, but what concerns me is it is always
>a recipe for failure. Now, another thing I've noticed is this weepy mood
>swing stuff. Really bad around that time of the month, but never absent.
> So my theory is this: years of really bad dietary habits has screwed up
>her natural balance thereby inhibiting normal weight loss - and she has some
>pretty high estrogen levels. I know, that's a stretch. But it's possible.
>I got her to quit her job and she's going to start school next month. (this is good for lower stress and reduced physical stress/injury) That
>means that we don't have medical coverage for her. We did have her thyroid
>checked out earlier and it is normal. Her blood pressure is good and her
>cholesterol is way down from 451! to ?200
>
>So here is my dilemma. Would a cycle of steroids be the kick in the ass
>that distinguishes between success and failure?? I'm seriously considering
>giving her my primo for a 10-12 week cutting cycle.
>What I think will be accomplished is increased metabolism, increases
strength,
> and a sense of well being (ie, taper that estrogen with some test). I
>have her working on a menu plan, but am not really sure how I'd break down
>her percentages. She flinched at the idea of 1800 calories: I think that'll
>be too light. Ana is out of the question cause I don't wanna pay
>for it.
>
>Open forum: tell me what you think.....please

------------------
LAte

As for the fat inhibitors: it's my current understanding that you need fat to burn fat. I'd put her on a vegetarian diet, but I don't do well on a vegetarian diet.

------------------
LAte

I'm not looking to AS for a 'magic pill' cure. I'm actually considering it as pharmaceutical to help ....mask some of the variables that keep setting us back. With increased strength to support the joints in question, the joints are 'slightly' less likely to hurt. With increased lean mass, we increase her natural metabolism. I just need a blasting cap to get her over this hurdle.....kinda like hydrocortozone on a rash.

Let me change the question.

I'm going to put a 230# female on a short cycle for weight loss. The drug of choice is Primobolin (injections 50mg every 7-10 days). Her workout routine is to consist of (5)30-minute, pre-breakfast cardio: and 3-4 days of resistance training per week. I have recommended a diet consisting of:
40% protein
40% carbs
20% fat
for a 2000 calories (she's afraid of this many calories so pipe in here for me folks)

I want to keep the cycle short to better set her up for success. Progress will be diligently monitored.

feedback...alternate recommendations?

If I get the test results, I'll post them.

As to the primo, if we are looking at improving joints, legaments, and such, I got to toss in the deca as an option. I think you might even be able to use less and get impressive results. And then there is the T3.... (Lobo ducks) but lets get some hard numbers on her fer we go down this road.

------------------
LAte

AAS would be good to support healthy lean mass and contribute to a feeling of health, and that would be about it. Not very useful as a fatloss aid per se. Maybe she now has relatively too many fat cells? It would seem to me that a lack of estrogen and relative excess of cortisol can lead to new fat cells as opposed to lots of estrogen.

She might benefit from a mitochondrial uncoupling agent assuming availability:

mitochrondial uncoupling agents....? looks like tiny little bolt cutters, right?

DNP - I haven't developed enough comfort to administer this stuff to my self.

We hit the ice rink this weekend for about an hour and 15, and today she starts her first day at school. Hopefully with a tighter schedule, she will start to feel better mentally. I demanded that she enroll for either an aqua aerobics class or an adult swimming class: starting this month.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback (even when I can't translate what you're telling me). I'll keep you updated as information comes in. Maybe you all can help me do what I haven't been able to.

2) If the E is high then she seems a perfect candidate for some Anti-Estrogens. I would find this a more precise method of managing estrogen than AS. And with the exception of Deca, most AS can exacerbate joint, tendon and ligament probs. Yeah, her muscles will get stronger, but the supporting tissue can't keep pace.

3) Adipocyte hyperplasia is a real possibility in her case, and the only way I know of fixing that prob is with liposuction. But this would have to be followed up with a clean lifestyle (I know you're well aware of this Jaye Lynn).

Although everybody is different, most obese people will lose very little muscle mass even when on very low cal diets, and this is without any weight training. If you throw weights into the fatloss program, most obese folks will actually GAIN muscle while losing fat. This is especially true for obese women who seem to produce more Test than lean women. So I agree that the AS, if needed at all, should be saved until she lost a lot of the fat through diet, exercise, anti estrogens, xenical, DNP or whatever.

T3- WarLobo alluded to this one, and this is a possibilty as long as she's willing to have her thyroid checked regularly. Essentially it would be ideal if you can get her thyroid as high as possible within the normal range. Obviously her doc won't give her this stuff because she's already in the normal range. But high-normal is optimal for weightloss. I am also wondering why the doc didn't do a full thyroid panel. Probably because you didn't specifically ask for it, but I feel it's an important test to do on chronically obese people.