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 Elite Fitness Bodybuilding, Anabolics, Diet, Life Extension, Wellness, Supplements, and Training Boards
 Women's Discussion Board
 anti-estrogenics
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| Author | Topic: anti-estrogenics | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 410 |
Just finished reading George's article on Chrysin and Diadzein and find that I'm still very confused as to the feasibility/applicability of anti-estrogenic supplements to the female athlete. Would an additional reduction in estrogen binding enhance androgenic sides while on? Would it maybe accellerate predisposition to osteoparosis? Who wouldn't be interested in increased libido with reduced stress and increased lean mass, but isn't that what they all promise? Any thoughts out there?? ------------------     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 138 |
GREAT Questions JayeLynn. I would be curious about the same things. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 930 |
Yes, estrogen does protect to some degree against virilization. That's one of the reason post-menopausal women tend to have more facial hair, deeper voices and a change in bodyfat distribution. but ther is a difference between NO estrogen and many of the anti-estrogens that are available. Anti-Es like daizden and Nolvadex only block some of the estrogen receptors (thus preventing cancers in estrogen responsive tissues). They act like estrogen at other estrogen receptors. So it's not clear cut. In premenopausal women that take estrogen, most of them do not suffer virilizing side effects UNLESS the drug induces premature menopause. Also, these plant derived anti-Es that george is pushing have been consumed by many asian (and more recently caucasian) women without obvious side effects. For instance, I have eaten incredibly large amounts of soy products for the last 20 years, and the only side effect I've noticed is reducd stress and increased LBM!! It's also worth noting that Nolvadex has been trialled as an ANTI-osteoporosis drug because one of the subtypes of tissue that it acts as an estrogen in are bone forming cells. And Asian women who consume large amounts of soy have very low rates of osteoporosis. All in all, I wouldn't worry about side effects from these plant derived anti-Es. The main thing I would worry about is Gyno if i were a male on AS, because I haven't seen any evidence that these herbal versions make any difference. | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 410 |
MS - can you tell more about why you attribute increased lower body mass to the consumption of soy? I know that soy contains the anti -ES components, but knowing that your a vegetarian, I would suspect that you have been consuming substantial amounts of soy for some time. What's the story? ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 930 |
Ummm, LBM as in LEAN body mass, NOT LOWER body mass. Uggghhh. I wouldn't touch something that would give me an increase in lower body mass. But I'll bet we could sell it to the guys!!
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Pro Bodybuilder
Posts: 410 |
..been kinda obsessed with the idea that my legs are too small. The brain may have been on vacation, but my heart was in the right place  ------------------ There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin. [This message has been edited by JayeLynn (edited October 27, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 175 |
After trying Nolva as an anti-E, I would say that it's a waste of time unless you are one of 3 things. A) already VERY lean meaning 10% or less. B) getting ready for a contest and C) ready for the post cycle rebound. My experience was that the results were negligible and not worth it to me. The rebound although not severe, lasted about 3 weeks and included H2O retention, some mood swings and period weirdness. Perhaps if I had been leaner and more diciplined about my diet it would have benefitted me more. The truth is that I was looking for that magic potion that would allow mw to eat crap and still have abs. I've since jumped off the fantasy wagon and onto the stairmaster. WW | ||
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Moderator 
Posts: 1124 |
Been there, done that....the fantasy wagon part, I mean. Glad to have some company on the stairmaster sista WW - I was getting kinda lonely!  ------------------ [This message has been edited by bikinimom (edited October 28, 2000).] | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 930 |
There's NO DOUBT that Nolva only works for women who are already lean. It is as far from a magic bullet as you can get. In fact, in 'normal' women taking nolva for breast cancer, one of the more common sides is fluid retention and weight gain. This makes sense knowing that Nolva is estrogenic in some tissues. I think your own estrogen levels need to already be low from months of strict dieting before you can see results from Nolva. As I've said before, I wouldn't waste my money on the stuff George is pedalling either. It is even weaker and less specific than Nolva. Diet and Cardio. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 107 |
Males developing gyno probably need an (expensive) anti-aromatase such as Arimidex, Femara or Aromasin. Failing that, or maybe in addition to that they'd need to add in something androgenic that stays androgenic. Except if they're experiencing a progestational effect from too much 19-nor AAS -in which case they're probably sunk? Also heard of people using local shots of Medrol. Wouldn't expect Any meds to deal with the case in the picture on the banner ad though. |
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posted October 25, 2000 12:15 PM