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 Training Discussion Board
 Shrugs
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| Author | Topic: Shrugs | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 57 |
I've always thought that you were supposed to use a straight up and down motion, but I always see people at the gym rolling their shoulders back on the negative. Which is correct? I thought the latter was damaging to the next/back.     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 184 |
Your correct. If they are rolling their shoulders, they are doing it _wrong_ . | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
DO NOT roll the shoulder joint. Period. Straight up and down with heavy weight. Upper traps like to be pounded ultra-heavy. Rolling your shoulder is an excellent way to get hurt, plus you cannot really use the poundages you need for growth if you roll. ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 43 |
genetiking is right. i am a therapist at a hospital and studied the himan body all thorugh school. the best way to injure your shoulder is to roll themn during shrugs. all you are doing is shearing the anatomey of the shoulder compartment together. as time goes by, your shoulder willeither beocme injured or tear. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1162 |
I hate it when dumb-ass fuckers roll thier shoulders!!! WTF do they think they are acomplishing? #1 it's bad for the rotator cuff ------------------ | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 767 |
You bros may be right. If you are can you point me to an article that proves this as I've been rotating on shrugs for 2 years. Never had a single injury from them yet. I thought it hit the traps from different angles, allowing more fibres to get hit. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 52 |
Rolling the shoulders is definitely hard on the rotator cuff. Strengthmonster, if you haven't had any injuries, consider yourself lucky. And as far as proof, you are simply grinding everything in your shoulder together when rolling the shoulder during the shrug. That's what causes rotator cuff problems in the first place...wrong/stressful movements in the shoulder. I was a pitcher in high school and the rotation of my shoulder during my delivery gave me problems so I had to change it in order to relieve stress on the shoulder. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 52 |
But I can't really point you to an article, I am just speaking from personal experience and things I have seen or learned in school. So, if it works for you and you don't get injured, then great...good luck | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 767 |
I am wondering if my experience in martial arts training which involves a lot of shoulder warm ups and stretching may have helped prevent me from getting injuries. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
Strengthmonster, how heavy are going on shrugs? Exact poundages? You using barbell or dumbbells? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 96 |
An effective shrug movement is straight up and down as to work directly against gravity. When you roll your shoulders you are not working against gravity and there fore not only is the movement dangerous it is also ineffective. Think of a preacher curl, how hard it is to move the weight at the bottom(against gravity) and how easy it is at the top of the movement(not against gravity). | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 190 |
It took me awhile to get poundages that would make my traps grow. I do them right after squats now on the squat rack with 335 - 345lbs and my traps are poppin! GO HEAVY! ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 96 |
I must agree with beafmaster on this, forget perfect form and move the f***ink weight. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 767 |
Been away 4 a few days. I usually do barbell with around 3x20kg plates a side (olympic). That is enough for me to get a controlled movement for 10 reps. I have lifted more in the past (up to 7 plates a side - cheating a lot) but prefer a strict movement. I usually vary from bb, db and the hammer grip shrug bar. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 52 |
The stretching and warmups on the shoulders would definitely help out in preventing injury, strengthmonster. I would say that helped you out a great deal. After I injured my rotator cuff, I began stretching much more than I had and it helped out a lot...no problems since. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 124 |
Strengthmonster, You are using serious weight. I can't believe you've never experienced any shoulder problems from rolling the shoulders with that much weight. Maybe your martial arts and stretching have helped. I usually go 315lbs (barbell) til failure (between 8 and 10 reps) for a few sets and then go 405 for some slow negatives with my spotter for help. Then I finish off with lighter dumbbells for pump sets. They way my shoulders are, I would have big problems if I rolled my shoulder joints, especially on those heavy bb sets. But if you've never had an injury and you're traps are developing well, who am I to argue? ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 38 |
Hey Guys, When I saw the post I expected it to be pro-roll but I see you are all anti-roll? In a recent muscular development mag they even addresses this issue directly and mentioned that the trapezius (sp?) is the greek work for trapazoid like shape. Different parts of the muscle pull your neck, shoulders and back in different directions. The stright up and down motion is handled by the center 1/3 of the muscle. So over time it will grow and take the top and bottom with them, but to make the peaks we all love grow towards your ears they say to roll. Granted with tons of weight this will happen eventually, but with that same logic the gimp at the gym swinging his back, elbows and every other damn muscle but his biceps to do a curl would be in that mental boat with you. I prefer form over volume, bad form will not stop gains, it will just force you into an unoptimized growth pattern. Hitting the gym at all is good, but proper form is best. At least that is my opinion, and up till this week (and reading that article) I was stright up and down too. A few other good points they add are the bend at the knees a bit and make sure the weight is a bit in front of you. Pull stright up and press your shoulders together, roll back, and as the weight decends widen your shoulders. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1162 |
quote: DO NOT ROLL YOUR SHOULDERS!! it is death on your rotator cuffs. yes traps have muscle fibers running in three diff directions. but SHRUGS ROLL OR NO ROLL ONLY HIT ONE DIRECTION OF FIBER regardless of what a magazine says. If the movement is not moving against gravity, no muscle stimulus takes place!!! three fibers: THREE MOVEMENTS!!! 1. shrugs AND THAT'S THE "BOTTOM LINE" | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 38 |
Hey Valdez, I see your idea, with traps hit from different angles during diffrent movements. I most admit the feeling was different this past wednesday (shoulders/trap day for me) with the roll. Thier version of a roll is not a smooth movement. It involves two distinct two second pauses. One after the initial lift. And the other after the shoulder roll back, before the weight is lowered. I always feel a muscle the day after a workout, if not two, legs even more. To me an easy set was a waste-of time set so I go hard so they all help build muscle. But above and beyond anything I like to try stuff and decide from experience. I will try a few more weeks and see which I prefer after more than one roll day. I left the mag at work to show a buddy the anti-streaching article. If I remember I will post more details on monday. Happy super bowl sunday guys! | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 134 |
I use 150lb dumbells, along with 455 on a str8 bar, and I Have never rolled my shoulder once, and my traps are one of my best muscle groups. ------------------ If You Can't Be Bigger, Be Better Looking! | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1162 |
Two important points to re-iterate: 1. if the movement does not go against gravity it's not working the muscle-fiber (static yes, but that's all) 2. DEATH to rotator cuffs. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 656 |
Valdez is absolutely correct. Look at it this way... When rolling the shoulders, it is a given that you will FEEL something from it, but overall the RESULTS from it will not be as beneficial as opposed to doing them correctly. Too many people do them incorrectly utilizing their legs and upper body when doing shrugs. The only part of your entire body that should be moving is your shoulders. THAT'S IT! legs should be completely locked into position, upper body must remain in an un-moveable position as well. Arms should remain straight at your sides and as well, in locked postion. Then shrug up the shoulders "USING ONLY YOUR SHOULDERS", then PAUSE at the top of the shrug and release them to the starting position slowly. I see so many people bouncing their body to get the shrug up only to have it quickly come back down cause they can't pause the movement (if you can't hold a pause at the top it's too heavy for you). Some people use a semi-slouched forward posture so they can throw their upper-body back or up and use the momentum to get the weight up. By doing this you take away from the primary movement and the intended goal. It is because of this that people look for other ways to "target" the muscle because they can't feel it the traditional way, and that is simply because they are doing it incorrectly. You must look at it from a schematics point of view. It's primary funtion is to lift the shoulders up and down. A secondary movement allows them to roll. So logic tells us that to get optimal stimuli and growth from the trap muscle for growth would be to lift up and down. Anything else incorporates different muscles and responses which takes away from the primary goal. ------------------ Rock On! | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 2 |
As far as rotating your shoulders it generally not the greatest thing for them. But what the hell do what works for you. I don't do it because i like to go heavy(4 or 5 plates a side) and if i do i hear a nice crunching sound. |
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posted January 17, 2001 04:17 PM
