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 Training Discussion Board
 advice for a beginner
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| Author | Topic: advice for a beginner | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 4 |
i just started a couple of months ago. this is my routine. tell me what you think. thanks. all first sets are to 5, then rest are to failure. monday: Arms and Shoulders (all:5sets, 6-8 reps) wednesday: legs and abs (all:5sets, 8-10 reps) friday: chest and back (all 5sets, 7-10 reps)     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 201 |
Hey brother, you're going to get mixed opinions here, but if your goal is to get big ditch most everything you're doing. Isolation movements aren't going to take you anywhere at this stage. Anyone that knows their shit will say the same thing. Just do big basic, compound movements. Squats, deadlifts, bench(DB or BB), and maybe one or two secondary movements after you complete those(pull-ups for back, dips-chest, presses-legs, whatever). Ditch the arm day, and make your 3 days Chest, Legs, Back. If you want to smoke your bis and still do a big movement. Try close grip pullups(inward grip), guarenteed to smoke 'em. Eat like a madman and sleep as much as possible. Ask a trainer to show you how to do these lifts right, and keep strict form. Stick around the board and you'll learn more. There's a lot of knowledge here. I don't know your body type or weight, but you'll have to experiment and find out what works best for you. Don't take anyone's words as gospel, just try it out. Lift like a motherfucker and good luck. ------------------ | ||
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Novice
Posts: 4 |
thanks for the advice. i will try some of the stuff you suggested and see how it works. what do you suggest for triceps? or will the bench stuff take care of that? i've always heard that big triceps make your arms look huge. thanks again | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 241 |
You're doing 5 sets for each exercise? If you just started, that's too munch. You don't need 10 work sets in order to stimulate muscle growth. If you're using gear (steroids), then go ahead, but if you want to be drug free I recommend lowering your volume. I train HIT (high intensity training) style and I believe that it is one of the best ways to train. Personally I don't see a point in doing 2-3 movements for each body part. What's the point? Like incline pressing and flat bench pressing. Why would you do both? To hit your "upper chest"? A lot of lifters are so confused about all of these, probably because they read magazines by Joe Weider. Magazines are the worst source for training information. The routines change so much each month. There will be articles saying that low volume isn't the way to go and then in another issue there will be an article supporting low volume training. I was bought in to a lot of the magazine's BS. Magazines are fun to look at, but I will never use any of the routines in there, unless I'm reading Hardgainer magazine. I'm not a hardgainer, but it provides great routines. To get back on topic, I recommend that you focus only one compound movement for each body part. You're basically hitting the same muscle group when you're doing flat bench presses, instead of inclines. Focus on getting stronger on that movement. Progressive poundages will lead to muscle growth and strength. I recommend training at high intensity. Here's a routine I recommend. Monday/Thursday I recommend doing 2-3 warm up sets then train to failure. I did not include arm work because you will be working your tris in benching and shoulder presses. Your bis will get worked from heavy pulldowns. Every week you should add a little weight on each lift (about 2-5 pounds). You should be getting stronger every week. On your last set I recommend using forced reps and negatives. This routine looks very simple, right? You're right it is. Does that meant that it doesn't work? I've used the conventional exercise routines and I did gain muscle off them. I switched to HIT and I have recieved better results. If you decide that you don't want to try HIT, that's fine. Just don't be close minded until you've tried every way to make it work for you. There are some people that cannot do HIT. They just cannot handle all of the stress that is put on their muscles. HIT routines are often shorter than the conventional routines. I'm out of the gym 30-45 minutes, depending what kind of routine I'm on. When I was using high volume I was in the gym for 90-120 minutes. Too long. If you have any questions involving HIT or anything else, please let ask. I wish you the best of luck on your training. Keep lifting. If you want to learn more about HIT check out www.cyberpump.com Good info. ------------------ Check out http://pub30.ezboard.com/bhitsgymofbodybuilding -HB- | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 201 |
HIT- "I recommend that you focus on only one compound movement for each body part" A compound movement is a movement which incorporates multiple bodyparts. How the hell is what you're saying possible? And how are dumbell militaries a compound movement??? And you're saying do whole body workouts? Thats rediculous. If you do your "HIT" on Squats, theres no way in hell you're going to be able to get anything out of the following excersizes. Lat pulldowns?? For christ sake, lets put all weenie movements into our routine. Bigfella, if you want a wide, strong back, don't waste your time with pulldowns as your primary back excersize. After pull/chin-ups, do bent over rows or maybe pulldowns to finish your back off. 2sets of everything(6-10 reps). Bullshit. HIT is not the only method that is high intensity, short time. You should always be out of the gym in under an hour. Common knowledge. As far as people not being able to handle it, thats because its a waste of time. Blast your chest, couple days later legs, couple days later back. Each muscle group gets a full week of recovery, which may be what it needs if you hit it hard enough. HIT Bodybuilder is right with one thing, dont be closed minded, try it if you want. Just do a lot of research first. Im not saying "Joe Weider magazines" as hit so ignorantly put it. But ask trainers, books, some mags, this board, etc. To answer your question Bigfella, your right, the tris make up most of the arm. For me personally, dips hit them pretty good. If your more upright they'll hit tris, lean over and you'll hit chest a little more. You may want to follow benches with close grip benches. That way, your chest will be preexhausted and your tris will definately get torched. Anyway, this is the shit that works for me, ask around. Good luck bro ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 241 |
Hey Thai Box, You are correct about compounds being a movement which incorporates multiple bodyparts. With dumbell presses, you are working more than just your delts. As everyone knows, your triceps get worked from pressing movements. So your shoulders get worked and you tris get worked as well. Let me quote you on this: "And you're saying do whole body workouts? Thats rediculous. If you do your "HIT" on Squats, theres no way in hell you're going to be able to get anything out of the following excersizes." Why wouldn't you be able to get anything out of the following exercises? I believe that for a beginner, doing full body workouts isn't a bad idea. Since he is a beginner, he will gain on almost any type of training program. Most beginners make pretty strengh/size gains starting out. By having him do a full body routine, he will gain strength/mass, but he is focusing on the basic exercises as well. Which is what most people need to focus on. Lat pulldowns a "weenie exercise"? "If you want a wide, strong back, don't waste your time with pulldowns?" A wide strong back? I had no idea that a there are specific exercises that developed the width of your lats. I have heard of such a theory, but the truth of the matter is that the width/thickness of your back is primarily determined by genetics. Do pull up and chins, instead of pulldowns? I do agree that chins are a great exercise for developing your back. I don't know if you noticed, but pulldowns are very similar to chins. I'm serious. Check out the movement. A weenie exercise? Come on. I don't believe that there is such thing as a weenie exercise. It's all what you make of it. And please explain to me why 2 sets of 6-10 reps to failure is bullshit. I am very interested to see what you have to say. From what I can tell, it looks like you have never even tried HIT. I don't believe taking the heaviest weight possible to failure twice using 6-10 reps is bullshit. But everyone's opinions are different. And I'm ignorant by putting down bodybuilding magazines? I wasted a lot of my years reading a bunch of crap that had no use for me. Bodybuilding magazines are a scam. Their main purpose is to make money by providing advertisments on exercise equipment and supplements. I don't know if you knew this, but all of the supplement companies pay to have their supplements advertised, which will probably increase their sales. Hmm...no wonder why we have so many people bought in on Cell Tech. Paying 50-70 bucks for 10 grams of creatine and 75 grams of sugar? Come on. If ever owned a magazine company, I would at least do everyone a favor by being honest. "Yes, Cell Tech will put mass on you....it will increase the size of your gut from all of the sugar!" Joe Weider is not an honest man. It's okay if you believe that the magazines provide good information. That's your choice. As long as the advice you recieve works for you, then great. I wish you the best of luck. But there a lot of people that I know that have been reading the magazines for years, and they have still not gotten the results they wanted. I know a person that followed their "proper" training advice and now his rotators are messed up for life. He used perfect form. The magazine had a routine that had him doing behind the neck presses, pulldowns behind the neck. The thing I don't like about the magazine is that the info they provide, changes all the time. HIT hasn't changed much at all. It is still basically the same. I believe that anyone could gain off HIT if they used it correctly. I'm not going to say that high volume won't work for anyone, but then again, I'm not going to say that it will work for everybody. It worked well for me, but I stumbled on to something better. Please respond. I really want to see what you have to say. ------------------ Check out http://pub30.ezboard.com/bhitsgymofbodybuilding -HB- | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 201 |
HIT, First off, I apologize for coming off hostile at all. This wasn't my intent, but when I read my post, this is the way it sounded. I tried to qualify my statements as much as possible, but I have always been a critic of this particular system. I believe I put the most intensity into my lifts as possible. Over the years, as I would hear of new training systems, theories, etc, I would researh them greatly, then give them a try for a while. I would always go balls to the wall with each of them. I train in a couple different gyms. I've spent a lot of time rapping with veteran trainers and some pros about routines, philosophies, theories, experiences. I've come to the conclusion that the human body does not respond well to the HIT system. Well, let me qualify that. The human body does not respond "as well" to HIT training as it does to more sets and more time for recovery(seperation of major body parts). Again, this is my opinion. I'm not saying HIT is worthless. I just think there are better ways to train. If you'd like, I could articulate my argument much better, and we could get into the scientific analysis of HIT versus other systems. If we brought it over to the Anabolic board we would probably both have guys arguing each side. But nothing would be resolved. Anyway, for now we'll agree to disagree eh? BTW, I am very aware that the supp companies own magazines. It pisses me off that Musclemag drags young readers into what they think is a training article, and it turns out to be an add for fucking cell-tech, with Kovaks holding a bucket and smiling. I agree with you there. But, if you have enough knowledge to know what to look for, you can find some useful info. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 241 |
Hey Thai, There's no need to apologize. I don't take things personal, especially from a guy I don't even know. It's totally fine if you don't like HIT. I've used high volume training and I did recieve good results. I tried HIT and it has worked very well for me and my friends. Most people that I know that have tried it, has recieved good results. I know that we wouldn't get anywhere by bringing others into this topic, especially people in the anabolic board. HIT works well for drug free lifters. People who try to use HIT while on gear, won't better results. Basically HIT is using a minimum amount of sets, but making the most out of them. I can make two sets go a long way. There many ways to stimulate muscle growth. One way is to lift heavy and use less volume. Another is lifting less, but using more volume. There are many other ways. I know people that can gain by working heavy and using higher volume. But average people would overtrain. In my own opinion, I believe that high volume training is only good for endurance athletes, unless you're on gear. This is how I view it. Compare Olympic Sprinters and Olympic Long Distance Runners. A sprinter has more muscle mass. A long distance runner is small and weak looking. Sprinting is high intensity, but is short in duration. Long distance running is just what it means, long. By comparing body structures of those two type of athletes, I believe that high intensity, short duration workouts are the best for building muscle. Those that do gain by using high volume methods are usually genetically gifted or they use steroids. There are a lot of genetically gifted people out there and there a lot o people with poor genetics as well. I'm not going to sit here and argue over which method of training is better. Everyone is different. A good person to talk to about HIT is Lemon Parade over at the Muscle Mag discussion board. He has a lot knowledge and can back up everything he says. I also, can back up all of my statements here. Keep lifting. ------------------ Check out http://pub30.ezboard.com/bhitsgymofbodybuilding -HB- | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 17 |
IM a HIT trainee, and I know HIT works for me, it doesnt work for everyone. We all have different body types and genes, some recover faster than others....but from my experience, most trainees would get better results from LESS volume......Compound movements are superior to isolation curls, you do compound movements and rest, and then you get results. I see beginners working out hard as they want, when they want, but when they finally get serious and learn how to acutally TRAIN hard, which I dont see many trainees doing, then they will be capable. I would love to see you do a HIT workout I do, almost puking during sets, and then you say its not enough. I would love to see you even do one set of 20 reps to FAILURE, I mean failure, not when it gets hard, rack it up, when you bring your training level to a new level, and the INTENSITY is high.....you will see lower volume is more beneficial | ||
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Novice
Posts: 4 |
i was doing some reading about HIT and i am confused about one thing. is it good to break up routines, like doing chest one day, and legs on another? or is it better to do more of a whole body workout? just curious. thanks. [This message has been edited by bigfella (edited December 12, 2000).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 108 |
ok let me take a stab at this high intensity training is an excellent way to train this is my personal preferance in my training .i have also trained on a more high volume approach and made some good gains,hey i have even powerlifted for a little while but i also agree with hit a beginner should workout on a three day a week total body routine this will not only build muscle but condition your body for the more advanced workouts latter on in your training whether it be hit or volume or whatever style of training he decides to use.why do you hammer on lat pulldowns i would rather see someone do 10strict reps on the lat pulldown than2-3 sloppy chins and when did db presses become an isolation excercise the last time i checked it was a compound excercise maybe not as big a compound excercise as squats or deadlifts. hope this helps big bear | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 201 |
I never said I was for high volume training. If you look at my previous statements you'll see that I said get out of the gym in under an hour. I just think 2 sets per lift isn't enough, and whole body workouts are bad. Alex, if your directing your comments to me, I just want to let you know that you DO NOT have to be a follower of the HIT system in order to be as intense as fuck. Im sure your workouts whoop ass. But never assume some one else does not do equal or even more brutally intense training than you if you havent seen them lift. We're forgetting that this post was to help our brother Bigfella out. ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 241 |
Hey Bigfella, Bet you never knew that your post would turn into a big conflict, huh? Well, sometimes conflicts are good. It gives both sides to let out the reasons behind their beliefs. Well, to get back on topic, I recommend that you stick with a full body routine right now and just work it hard 2-3 times a week. Try doing it 3 times a week and if you feel as if you're not getting any stronger or you are not recoverying between workouts, switch to twice a week. When you become more advance and have the basic HIT fundamentals down, then split your body parts up. I only recommend one compound movement per body part. Focus on getting stronger on each lift. Stick with the basics. Right now just rep out to failure with the heaviest weight possible. Always make sure you use good form. Proper form should be your #1 priority when it comes to lifting. Always warm up and cool down properly. If you want to make your workouts more intense use 10 second reps (4 seconds on the concentric part of the rep, 2 second pause in the contracted position, 4 seconds on the eccentric part of the rep) forced reps and perhaps a few negatives. Say that I'm bench pressing. When I'm pushing the weight that's the concentric part of the rep, when my arms are almost at a complete lockout, that's the contracted position, when I lower the weight that's the eccentric position. You need a spotter for forced reps and the negatives. Try to use a spotter at all times. Sometimes there won't be anyone there to spot you, but that's okay. This is where machines come into play. This is what I do. Say that my normal chest exercise is incline barbell presses, if I don't have a spotter to train to failure with, I use Nautilus or Hammer Strength Incline Presses. Not as good as free weights, but it gets the job done. So stick with these training guidelines. 1. Warm up properly If you have any other questions regarding HIT, feel free to contact me through my email address or my discussion board. The link is posted on the bottom of the page. If you post it here, I'll do my best to keep an eye out for it. But sometimes I miss a post or two. Take care. ------------------ Check out http://pub30.ezboard.com/bhitsgymofbodybuilding -HB- | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 126 |
hit for a beginner is gonna overtrain him. if a beginner was to work his whole body 2-3 times a week using hit that is gonna cause overtraining. beginners make the best gains but also get sorest and stay that way longer. the reasons the magazines always have different routines is because they are composed from different bodubuilders. it is not wrong but it is not necessarily right either. different things work for different individuals. the best thing for a beginner to do is to have a 2 day split. one day do bench presses the other alternate with squats and deadlifts not stiff legged either. powerlifting movements are the best proven way to build a foundation. after about 2 months make a 3 day split of squats/deads/bench. and it is important to do at least 1 extra excercise related to what is being worked like military presses after bench, leg ext or hack sq after squats and bent rows or leg curls for deads. then after that foundation is done after a year at least then stuff like forced reps and hit could be incorporated. arm work is almost useless to a beginner who has no chest back or leg mass. logic would say that it is not very possible for an individual to have big arms with a little body. ------------------ | ||
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Novice
Posts: 4 |
thanks for all of your advice fellas. i've learned a lot from you guys. i will probably try most of the things you said, and see what works best. i saw a lot of people saying good things about squats. i had been doing leg presses, cause i friend said he got some good gains from using. i could do about 290lbs on those things. then this morning, i did some squats with only about 90lbs. man i could hardly walk after i did that. i could really feel the burn from that, even through the rest of the day. again, thanks for all your help | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder 
Posts: 380 |
BIGFELLA: JUST FOLLOW HIT'S PLAN, IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT ITS HIM. THOSE PANSY ISOLATION EXERSIZES WILL GET YOU KNOW WHERE. |
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posted December 11, 2000 08:27 PM