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  George Spellwin's ELITE FITNESS Discussion Boards
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  E\C\A stack dosage

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Author Topic:   E\C\A stack dosage
Gymbob
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 13)
posted July 17, 2000 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gymbob   Click Here to Email Gymbob     Edit/Delete Message
I am using an E\C\A stack as follows;
18 mg ephedrine
100 mg theophylline
180 mg caffeine
150 mg aspirin

i am taking this approx 30 mins prior to a meal 3 times a day, are these dosages sufficent for optimum results for a male. I am doing plenty of cardio work, i am unsure about the intake of aspirin, in the WAR book it said 300 mg, thanks in advance people.

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Luv2Lift
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 51)
posted July 17, 2000 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Luv2Lift   Click Here to Email Luv2Lift     Edit/Delete Message
Gymbob--I've read that the aspirin part of the ECA stacks has been found, with further research, not to do much and provides no real synergy with the other ingredients. Just passing along what I read.

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Gymbob
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 13)
posted July 18, 2000 05:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gymbob   Click Here to Email Gymbob     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks liv2lift, thats the first time i heard that, anyone else got any info?

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warmeister
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 57)
posted July 18, 2000 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for warmeister   Click Here to Email warmeister     Edit/Delete Message
My understanding is the asprin are used as a blood thiner. Geared to thin the blood and get the substances into the blood more easily and to the muscles faster.

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WARMEISTER

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warmeister
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 57)
posted July 18, 2000 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for warmeister   Click Here to Email warmeister     Edit/Delete Message
My understanding is the asprin are used as a blood thiner. Geared to thin the blood and get the substances into the blood more easily and to the muscles faster.

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WARMEISTER

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Gymbob
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 13)
posted July 18, 2000 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gymbob   Click Here to Email Gymbob     Edit/Delete Message
thanks warmeister a lot clearer on the aspirin side now, would you increase to 300mg for a better affect?

Also im thinking of stacking this with vanadyl, gaba, or glutamine, has anyone ever stack eca with anything for a better results?, thanks in advance.

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gymratgrl
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 25)
posted July 18, 2000 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gymratgrl   Click Here to Email gymratgrl     Edit/Delete Message
My understanding on the use of the asprin is so you don't crash as the caffine and eph. wear off.

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Gymbob
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 13)
posted July 20, 2000 02:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gymbob   Click Here to Email Gymbob     Edit/Delete Message
ok thanks gymratgirl, i'll just up the asp dosage to 300mg if i crash to much.
Does anyone have any info on which supplements to stack E\C\A with for better fat burning and less muscle waistage, im thinking about gaba\glutamine\maybe vanadyl, any advice appreciated.

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warmeister
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 57)
posted July 20, 2000 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for warmeister   Click Here to Email warmeister     Edit/Delete Message
My take on the subject

E-ephedrine- is a broncial dialator - increases the amount of O2 the lungs absorb into the blood stream.

C- Caffeine- used to increase the heart reat and increase blood flow through the body.

A- Asprin- Is used to thin the blood allowing quicker absorbtion of O2, nutrients, and allowing the blood to flow more freely around the circulatory system.


This is my take on e/c/a....

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WARMEISTER

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cockdezl
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 221)
posted July 23, 2000 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cockdezl     Edit/Delete Message
Here's the real take on the ECA stack:

Ephedrine is a non-selective beta agonist, which activates the beta receptors (in our case the beta-2 is what we are looking for) and also causes the release of norepinephrine from the nerve endings. Beta-2 activation on the fat cells causes the mobilization and release of fatty acids into the blood, where they can be taken up by the tissues for fuel.

Caffeine is an adenosine receptor antagonist. Caffeine binds these receptors and causes the release of norepinephrine from the nerve endings.

Aspirin inhibits the formation of prostaglandins. PGE has been shown to reduce the release of norepi from the nerve terminals, so inhibiting the formation of PGE should theoretically increase norepi release. The aspirin use has NOTHING to do with blood thinning, since there is no real change in blood viscosity with or without it.

So, from looking at what all these compounds do, we can see that the whole goal is to keep norepi levels high, which will bind the adrenergic receptors. The research has shown that ONLY the combination of ephedrine with caffeine in a 1:10 ratio shows synergism. The studies with the aspirin did NOT show any significant effect on fat loss, except in obese women. And since aspirin causes significant irritation to the GI tract, it is not a necessary compound in the formula.

Theophylline is a shitty combination that Syntrax added to one of their products. Theophylline can be a deadly ingredient, since it has a low therapeutic index. The effective dose is not far away from the toxic dose, also one person can take it with no problem, while another can die from the same dose. Asthmatics who use theophylline must be monitored to measure blood levels of ths drug, since it can build to deadly levels.

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stinker
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 13)
posted July 23, 2000 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stinker     Edit/Delete Message
I have to disagree about the theophylline. I use this all the time with my fat burning cycles and it works great. I also checked the research and I don't see much danger to using it. Be careful reading things from those assholes over at Biotest. Anything that they don't carry they consider to be poisonous.

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cockdezl
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 221)
posted July 23, 2000 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cockdezl     Edit/Delete Message
STINKER, theophylline is not a drug that should be placed OTC, since it has too many side effects. You may have used it with success, but that does not mean the next individual will be so likely. If you did more research you would know that patients who use this drug must be monitored routinely to measure blood levels.

Harefuah 1997 Jul;133(1-2):3-5, 80

[Therapeutic and toxic theophylline levels in asthma attacks--is there a need for additional theophylline]?

Zeidman A, Gardyn J, Fradin Z, Fink G, Mittelman M

Dept. of Medicine B, Rabin Medical Center, Petah Tikva.

Although first-line therapy for bronchial asthma has changed over the past decade to anti-inflammatory medication such as inhaled corticosteroids and cromolyn with possible addition of beta-agonists, theophylline is still useful and therefore widely used. However, several studies have raised serious questions regarding its efficacy in acute asthmatic exacerbations. These studies, the narrow therapeutic range of the drug, the frequency of side effects and interactions with common drugs, and individual variation in clearance and metabolism, have prompted its reevaluation in the management of asthma. Therapeutic serum levels of theophylline are between 10 to 20 mcg/ml. Most adults achieve these concentrations with daily slow-release oral theophylline preparations, 200-400 mg (approximately 10 mg/Kg) twice a day. However, when such a patient presents to the emergency room (ER) in an asthmatic attack, immediate intravenous theophylline is often given, regardless of maintenance treatment. Since the rationale for this common therapeutic approach has been challenged, the current study was undertaken. Serum theophylline levels were measured in 23 consecutive asthmatics presenting to the ER in an acute attack. 15 (68%) had therapeutic levels (above 10 mcg/ml) and 2 had toxic levels (above 20 mcg/ml), prior to receiving the standard intravenous theophylline dose given for an attack. These data indicate that most patients with bronchial asthma on oral maintenance theophylline do not require additional intravenous theophylline when in an attack. It probably will not benefit them and may even induce serious theophylline toxicity.


Schweiz Rundsch Med Prax 1996 Oct 29;85(44):1407-12

[Clinico-pharmacological case (4). Epileptic seizure as an unwanted drug effect on theophylline poisoning].

Schlienger RG, Wyser C, Ritz R, Haefeli WE

Abteilung Klinische Pharmakologie, Departement Innere Medizin, Kantonsspital Basel.

In spite of the better understanding of the pharmacokinetics and optimized galenics of oral theophylline formulations, therapy with this bronchodilator still bears risks because of its narrow therapeutic window combined with substantial inter- and intra-individual variability of theophylline metabolism. In particular, the comedication with a variety of drugs inhibiting theophylline metabolism requires consideration as a potential source of toxicity. Besides mild, self-limited adverse effects, potentially life-threatening toxic manifestations such as ventricular tachyarrhythmias, shock, and seizures can occur especially with high plasma concentrations. We report the case of a 72-year-old patient with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease who was admitted for surgical treatment of an ulcer of the foot. During combined therapy with theophylline and ciprofloxacin he developed signs of theophylline toxicity with a single episode of partial seizures. These symptoms rapidly improved with repetitive application of activated charcoal and sorbitol. Clinically relevant drug-drug interactions with theophylline and the role and mechanism of action of activated charcoal in intoxicated patients are discussed.

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Gymbob
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 13)
posted July 27, 2000 05:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gymbob   Click Here to Email Gymbob     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for the help folks, i dont know whether to stop taking eca or not now, but i guess i should be ok since im not asmatic.

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