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  Estrogen blockers

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Author Topic:   Estrogen blockers
Chuck Diesel

Novice

Posts: 10
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Registered: Sep 2000

posted December 19, 2000 11:42 PM

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I think I am absorbing too much estrogen, does anyone know of any over the counter blockers?


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jrnc

Novice

Posts: 10
From:toronto,ontario,canada
Registered: Dec 2000

posted December 20, 2000 06:47 AM

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In order of supportive research, here are the superior over-the-counter anti-estrogen supplements.

Chrysin: Proven in vitro to competitively inhibit the aromatase enzyme.

Indole-3-Carbinole: Proven to shuttle Estradiol through a more favorable estrogen hormone excretion pathway so as to minimize hormone activity and half life.

Norandrostenediol: Proven to help inhibit the conversion of Androstenedione to Estrogen. Remember, whether you're taking Androstenendione or not, your body is still making a significant amount. Therefore, the use of Norandrostenediol may be warranted regardless.

That's about all I can think of. There is also the possibility that a supplement called Di-indolin may work similarly to Indole-3-Carbinole, but the research is inconclusive at this point.

None of these supplements will make you ripped or huge, but they do serve very nicely as adjuncts to your present supplementation regimen. The performance enhancing benefits are subtle, but noticeable if you really do have a problem with Estrogen production. Perhaps your best course of action is to see your General Practitioner and have blood chemistry done. Low estrogen levels will of course impact your testosterone levels, which may make you a prime candidate for prescription testosterone therapy (bonus!).


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yiyangzhi

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 56
From:Singapore
Registered: Dec 2000

posted December 20, 2000 08:14 AM

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1) 5-methyl 7-methoxyisoflavone and ipriflavone - have shown to inhibit human cytochrome P-450 enzymes, which are critical for aromatization. Their anti-aromatase activity are mild but effective.

2) Soy isoflavones - they block the conversion of androstenedione to oestrone more effectively than any substance. Its like a natural Nolvadex! It also inhibit prostrate cancer cell growth, as revealed by research data done at Emory University in Atlanta, GA.

* Very little research supports chrysin as a potent anti-estrogen compound. "There is No evidence at all that this works in normal humans. You can't take something out of a petri dish and feed it to the world!", said Dr Carlon Colker, MD, CEO and Medical Director of the Peak Wellness Institute in Greenwich, CT. Even leading chrysin researcher, Dr Larry Vickery, has commented on his concern with chrysin's safety and potential hepatotoxicity. (MD, June 1998).

The most effective estrogen blockers are pharmaceutical drugs, like arimidex, nolvadex, proviron and teslac. Some of these drugs however carry some side effects.


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riskybiz007

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 456
From:CA, usa
Registered: Jun 2000

posted December 20, 2000 10:29 AM

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i agree. studies i've read about with chrysin show there it is not effective as estrogen blocker.


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jrnc

Novice

Posts: 10
From:toronto,ontario,canada
Registered: Dec 2000

posted December 20, 2000 11:54 AM

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NO current evidence suggests that 7-Methoxyisoflavone will do anything. It has absolutely no clinial research to support it. Any of the effects ascribe to ipriflavone have been mistakenly applied to 7-methoxyisoflavone.

HEre are the facts. Ipriflavone has been proven to be an estrogen receptor sensitizing agent. According to Brian Haycock, Ipriflavone does enhance the effects of estrogen. A study published in the journal of Calcification of Tissue International has stated that Ipriflavone, like the soy flavone Genistein, has good affinity for the estrogen receptor-beta.

The only research published on Ipriflavone that is of any use to someone concerned with building muscle is patent research. The rest of the research deals with reconvalescent bedridden elderly people and postmenopausal women with osteoperosis. Remember, estrogen controls bone formation is women, and anthing that positively modulates estrogen production will also have a positive effect on osteoperosis -- hence the use of Ipriflavone as an anti-osteoperotic. But what does all this have to do with 7-methoxyisoflavone. Well, since no research has been done on this compound, we are left to assume that the methylation of the 7 carbon of Ipriflavone to yield Methoxyflavone yields the same results as seen with Ipriflavone, only more potent. As such, you have a more potent estrogen sensitizing agent. Great! Besides, doses of methoxyflavone or ipriflavone are in the gram range for effectiveness. The people behind the patent believe you need 30mg/kg to obtain a positive response. That works out to about 3 grams per day. That would cost you about $15 a day at current supplement prices. That's too much for something that has never been proven to work.

Which leads to the next point. Why use Soy isoflavones. Soy is now being blamed by endocrinologists for the decreasing sperm counts seen in men in North America (along with various air-borne phytoestrogens). SInce medical researchers have yet to isolate those isoflavones that competitively inhibit the cytoplasmic estrogen receptor from those that induce its activity, can you be sure that consuming soy is the best thing for a man? Most would think not.

I merely cited Chrysin because at least the in vitro research looks promising. It is by no means a miracle supplement, but it may hold some benefit.


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yiyangzhi

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 56
From:Singapore
Registered: Dec 2000

posted December 21, 2000 12:02 AM

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jrnc, correct me if I'm wrong, but did u say that ipriflavone increases estrogen levels?


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Chuck Diesel

Novice

Posts: 10
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Registered: Sep 2000

posted December 21, 2000 01:09 AM

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So out of these what is the best? I heard a few but what is the best and most attainable?


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jrnc

Novice

Posts: 10
From:toronto,ontario,canada
Registered: Dec 2000

posted December 21, 2000 07:18 AM

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yiyangzhi,

i wouldn't say Ipriflavone or 7-methoxyisoflavone increase estrogen levels. No, what they have been proven to do is to "sensitize" the estrogen receptor beta to the effects of estrogen. It might be easier to understand if you picture chromium or alpha lipoic acid

We know both of those supplements "sensitize" the insulin receptor -- in essence, they promote the binding of insulin to its tyrosine kinase receptor. The same can be said for ipri and methoxyflavone. Both somehow modify the tertiary structure of the estrogen receptor-beta, thus promoting more efficient binding of estrone and estradiol to the receptor. THerefore, the effects of estrogen in your body are now magnified.
Believe me, this is a positive benefit if you are a post-menopausal woman or a bedridden elderly person or an astronaut. All three of these groups suffer massive bone losses due to a lack of stimulation. Some of the above groups also suffer from a lack of estrogen production compared to normal human levels (especially the female proportion of this group). Sensitizing the estrogen receptor allows more efficient binding of what little circulating estrogen these people have, allowing them to retain a little more bone.
However, for young, healthy males with normal bone mass (pretty much any weight training male), there is no reason to sensitize the receptor to estrogen. It is counterproductive to the cosmetic effect that is bodybuilding. Unfortunately, the marketing of these flavones represents what happens when a clever person decides to misrepresent a clinical study.
My personal choice is to avoid these supplements based on the above mentioned facts. Furthermore, should a female decide to use the supplements, they would prove to be cost-prohibitive if an effective daily dose were to be maintained. Despite my ramblings, you may choose to use them, and that is your own personal choice and you are welcome to it. Thanks.


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yiyangzhi

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 56
From:Singapore
Registered: Dec 2000

posted December 23, 2000 05:13 AM

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if wat u say its true, then the companies shld be slammed for this. Methoxyflavone is now touted in many bodybuilding magazines as the cutting-edge bodybuilding supplement ever! Could u email to me your reference list? Tell u wat, if wat u say is true, I'm gonna flush down that stupid bottle of methoxyflavone! AS are still the best choice to build!


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