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 My 4 week fat loss diet for a 195 pounder.
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| Author | Topic: My 4 week fat loss diet for a 195 pounder. |
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Cheech Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 59) |
posted July 28, 2000 08:34 PM
  
Breakfast 4 eggs 4 slices of bacon 1 oz cheeze 1 tbl flax oil Lunch 2 cans of tuna, or 8 oz chicken breast 2-3 tbl mayo Snack if needed 1 string cheeze Dinnder Poached salmon, chicken or steak How much fat could I loose on this diet? I may carb load every 8 days. IP: Logged |
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Beezers Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 178) |
posted July 28, 2000 09:04 PM
I really hope you're eating more than 3 times a day. 6-7 bro. It's a must to keep the metabolism rockn & rolln. You are going to sacrifice a lot of muscle on a diet like that. IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 226) |
posted July 28, 2000 11:29 PM
What are you talking about? Do you know anything about ketogenic dieting at all? Meal frequency is completely unecessary while in ketosis! This diet actually looks great, except if you have 2 cans of tuna (about 60g protein) go for about 3 tbsp. mayo (33g fat) plus 2 tbsp. oil (30g fat) to keep a good ketogenic ratio (same grams of fat as grams of protein+trace carbs). And just make sure the steak is really fatty, or do like I do and smother it in butter (same with salmon). Basically, eat your protein foods, just COVER them in pure fat foods (oil, butter, mayo - oh by the way mayo does have trace carbs, so don't have like half a jar per day). If you get hungry, it means you need more dietary fat (don't go past 175-195g protein per day). Three meals per day is just fine, with a snack or two if needed. Given your weight, I think minimal carbs + about 175g protein and 190g fat (adjust fat up if needed, but not down) will get you lean while sparing muscle as long as you carb on a regular basis and lift heavy only right after carbing. In general the diet you describe looks excellent! (not much different from mine right now, unless I get too lazy to make eggs in the morning!) IP: Logged |
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brandon Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 133) |
posted July 31, 2000 07:07 AM
Vlaovic, Can you cite any references indicating that meal frequency is not an issue while on a ketogeninc diet? IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 226) |
posted July 31, 2000 11:39 AM
I truly believe that the most knowledgable man on this planet regarding Cyclical Ketogenic dieting is without a doubt Lyle McDonald. He experimented with longer spaces between meals in the cutting phase of his diet; about 5 hours apart, and saw no drop in strength and muscle size. I also eat three times per day as I am cutting, and I find my lifts maintain, or go up every week. The longer spaces between meals allow ketone bodies to be produced from body fat; another words, if you eat very fatty meals throughout the day, most KB's will come from dietary fat. Spacing out the meals forces your body to get energy from your spare tire, rather than the oil and mayo your tuna's swimming in. We all know that the human body loves to canabalize its own tissue when faced with a lack of food. In ketosis, we teach the body to canabalize fat rather than protein. For a very specific reference, check out one of Lyle's Body Opus Diary entries. Here's the link: http://www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/week17.htm IP: Logged |
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brandon Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 133) |
posted July 31, 2000 08:59 PM
I second your comment on Lyle. I really cannot think of anybody that has researched this diet as much as Lyle. Which is why this statement bothers me. I have read Lyle�s book, and I can�t remember any mention of this. I have also read his diet diary, but question its accuracy; this diary has been around for a long time, and I wonder whether he has changed his mind by now (as he has on other issues). It�s a shame he no longer posts on MFW like he used to, then we�d be able to ask him. By the way, I don't think that Duchaine makes mention of this in his book, either. In any case, I know the reasoning behind eating less than 6 meals a day while on a KD. However, as with any other diet, KD eventually boils down to being hypocaloric. You will lose weight in any diet, as long as you are ingesting fewer calories than you are consuming. That leaves the issue of protein consumption. You say, �In ketosis, we teach the body to cannibalize fat rather than protein.� Even so, if we are to assume that the body can only assimilate so much protein at one meal, then it means that 1) you are forced to eat less protein than normally consumed, or less than 100 grams/day, or 2) you eat the same amount of protein you normally would, only anything that is not assimilated will turn to glucose (by way of gluconeogenesis). I have always eaten 5-6 smaller meals under the belief that protein intake should be gradual. While I don�t claim that your body can only assimilate 30 grams of protein at a time (who knows where this freakin� figure came from?), I believe that whatever is not assimilated or burned will eventually turn to either glucose or fat (as with anything else). You however, state that you eat only �three times per day as I am cutting, and I find my lifts maintain, or go up every week.�, as did Lyle back in '95. It makes you wonder whether eating 5-6 times a day is bunk, doesn�t it? Anyway, I�m rambling here. I have not actually researched this issue, but the whole thing doesn�t make much sense to me. I have Lyle�s e-mail somewhere. I�ll drop him a line, and let know what he says. P.S.: In case you haven;t seen it, here�s Lyle�s web page: IP: Logged |
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seeseerider Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 115) |
posted July 31, 2000 09:56 PM
vlaovic youre my man!!!;-) IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 226) |
posted August 01, 2000 11:28 PM
Thanks Seesee!! Appreciate that in a major way! Brandon, the issue of gluconeogenesis you raised seems quite intriguing. Personally, what I've (rescently) found is that while in ketosis, I get the best fat loss from a weird blend of Body Opus and the Warrior Diet. Sound weird? Well, what I do (while in ketosis during the week) is have two small, measured-out meals, with a proper ketogenic ratio. I have a third, large meal, in which I don't count grams . It comes after a cardio or workout session. In essence, I nearly fast during one part of the day, and pack in a large quantity of calories at another part a la Warrior Diet. What I do keep track of, however, and do so quite religiously, is my ketogenic ratio during this big "warrior meal". I find that regardless of how much protein I eat (being reasonable here!), I don't get kicked out of ketosis as long as I completely drown that protein in pure fat products like butter, mayo, oil, etc. Like you mentioned, this strategy (which works for ME) makes me wonder if the small, evenly spaced, measured meals are actually the best strategy on any diet. When it comes to CKD's however, all I can conclude with (before I also start rambling, to which I freely admit on numerous posts!) is that people must experiment with many strategies to find what works best for them. The diet is so scientific and complicated, it's almost impossible to find a template that everyone can live by. So what I preach, based on it working for me, could be different from what another person should be doing to achieve top results. p.s. I thank you infinitely for giving me that link at the bottom of your post! I've been looking for Lyle's new home on the web forever!!! If you ever happen to stumble on any intersting theories (yours or otherwise) having anything to do with CKD's or anyhing in that neighbourhood, please drop me a mail at [email protected] or [email protected] [This message has been edited by vlaovic (edited August 02, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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cabexbx Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 35) |
posted August 02, 2000 02:16 PM
vlaovic, Do you stay on this diet year round or is it for short (or long) periods of time? What are your typical reductions in BF and overall weight that you lose? And what type of activity do you supplement with the diet. You mentioned cardio and weight lifting in your post. TIA IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 226) |
posted August 02, 2000 03:06 PM
Never done it for more than a couple of months at a time. I lift heavy twice a week (after carb-up) and do low intensity cardio throughout the week, if I'm using the diet for cutting (I recently bulked on it for six weeks, and cut for only two). This past time I did it, (in my last week now), I actually started the diet (2 months ago) at about 5% bodyfat, bulked until I hit about 10%, and now cut back to around 8%. I put on a little over 15lbs and my fat went up 3%. I'm going to try Eric Hesse's protein cycling scheme as a change of pace to get back to 5%, since you're sopposedly able to gain muscle and drop fat simultaneously on that program. In the past, I have hit 4% doing the CKD, but I had to carb only every 2 weeks to get such results. Also, 4% is an estimation, since my skinfolds didn't really show up on the calipers - I really couldn't pinch anything but skin with the calipers, except on my obliques where I had a very minimal fat deposit. I was using two different charts, one of which put me off the scale, the other at something like 2%, but since those things always underestimate your %, 4% is a really just my guess. IP: Logged |
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MR. BMJ Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 120) |
posted August 03, 2000 02:34 AM
I too, have received better results from only eating 3 (at the most 4) times per day while dieting on a CKD. I also agree that, through MY own experiences, that keeping the ratio of fat to protein at around 75-80% fat to 20 to 25% protein is a must for optimal results. Some people change the ratios after ketosis has been established, but I do not like to do this because you only have a few days until the weekend carb-up and diet time needs to be taken full advantage of. In other words, I don't feel like screwing things up while in ketosis. The higher fat ratio has also allowed me to descend into ketosis much quicker. Although the ratio of fat:protein is in limbo for deciding on when gluconeogenesis occurs, if one were to add carbs and lots of protein to the mix, then I would have to agree that the best time of its administration would be after a workout. Actually, taking it before the workout might work too. Many people have reported being able to take carbs in before their workouts and have no effects with it knocking them out of ketosis. This is too risky for me, and I do not feel like guessing with the insulin either. IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 226) |
posted August 03, 2000 09:03 AM
Exactly! It's one thing for Atkins dieters to fuck around with too much protein etc. - They don't carb every weekend saotaging ketosis! Those who do, don't have the time to play around. I have made this mistake in the past, and got 15% body fat for my troubles. It makes no sense to screw with the ketogenic ratio when you have 4-5 days in ketosis tops. If you don't carb on the weekends (fun, fun!) then pre/post workout carbs will give you a pump and get you through the workout, but if you do carb, at least in my case, pre-workout carbs would just scare the hell out of me for a number of reasons. IP: Logged |
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Paul Stagg Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted August 03, 2000 09:55 AM
I had great reuslts using a TKD with 50g high GI carbs (no fructose) about 30 minutes prior to training, and 20-30g protein right after, then meat and fat about an hour after that. I would be back in ketosis by late in the evening. IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 226) |
posted August 03, 2000 10:04 AM
Did you also carb on weekends? IP: Logged |
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Paul Stagg Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted August 09, 2000 09:52 AM
Nope. IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 226) |
posted August 09, 2000 11:51 PM
Ouch!!! Not something I'm gonna try, but my hat goes off to you. I've had the best success with training the biggest body parts during my carb-up (legs, back, chest) and keeping he carb-up to 24h. I also have two sessions during the week when I train arms, shoulders and abs. Before these, I drop about 25-30g carbs from dextrose, along with glutamine, ALA and other glucose disposal agents. [This message has been edited by vlaovic (edited August 09, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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Paul Stagg Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted August 10, 2000 09:15 AM
There are a couple of advantages to the TKD over the CKD, in my opinion. 1) You pretty much stay in ketosis all the time, so you don't have that miserable going into ketosis feeling every week after your carb up. I got used to being in ketosis after about 2 weeks, and really felt fine. 2) There is far less opportunity to screw up the carb load and end up with fat spillover. 3) You can use a workout schedule of your choice, as opposed to having to take advantage of the 24 hour carb up. I trained using a push/pull/legs split, with plenty of time to recover, and not having to fit too much into one workout. (I actually continued to get stronger) I'm going to go back on a TKD next week, for 12 weeks or to the point where I'm happy with my BF levels, whichever comes first. I'll keep you updated on the progress. IP: Logged |
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