GEORGE SPELLWIN'S ANNOUNCEMENTS
Enlightening Men about Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding for over Two Decades
 UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! |
 George Spellwin's ELITE FITNESS Discussion Boards
 Diet Discussion Board
 anabolic diet for mass gain
|
| Author | Topic: anabolic diet for mass gain |
|
qball Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 12) |
posted June 27, 2000 04:01 PM
  
I have used the AD version of ketogenic diet in the past for mass gain, although a bit haphazardly (carb up on pizza and donuts) Even so, It worked in helping me to add muscle with minimum fat (maybe not as efficient as higher carb/ more fat gain bulking approach, but I liked it). I plan to do this again. Has anyone else used the AD for mass gain? If so, any tips/tricks you learned in the process. Obviously, I plan to clean up the carb up somewhat. Althought ben and jerrys cant be all bad! ( I wish ) I would like to hear peoples expereinces. Theories are okay to, just please state them as such as not to get confused with real world results. IP: Logged |
|
Cheech Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 50) |
posted June 27, 2000 09:55 PM
You can gain muscle and with out the fat at the same time, creatine works crappy unless taken with black coffie. Durring the week eat alot of high fat foods try to supplement with flax oil if you can stand it. Make sure to eat less than 20 carbs day. Keep the calories high specialy on work out days. get alot of vandyll sulfate and alpha lipolic acid for carbing up every meal I like to get a pill of each. Carb-ups are the important ideal factor with this diet as well as calories durring the week. The carb-ups could be done like bodyopus every 2 hours for maximum effect. And supersets before the carb-up. The heavy training should be done on the first 3 days then if you are recovered do moderate weight if not go light on fri with supersets either way consume 1-2 apples 2 hours before you work out. take fri-sun as cheat days. from the end of your workout on fri consume 140 grams of maltodextrin every 2hours with 20 pro, or a lowfat weight gainer with similar ratios for the first 4 meals make sure to drink creatine 10g each meal. Then consume 2 bowls of processed cereal with skim milk for the next 4 meals. Then consume low fat candy bars or snacks for the next 4 meals. Panakes, Pasta, Patatos and Pizza next 4 meals and so on.. you eat 24 meals total starting from High-Gi Index to Low-Gi and ending in Hi to spike your self into ketosis. If you dont like eating whole foods you can drink maltodextrin or carbo drinks-baks or clif bars met-rx bars durring you sleeping. set your alarm to go off every 2 hours. you should be done some time sunday night. You can gain 30+ lbs of muscle and little at with out the use of steroids with this diet since you testerone is so high from the high fat in a year if done correctly. Usefull supplements: glutmine at night and durring carbups, Creatine with coffie 5g before workouts and 10g every meal durring the first 12 hours, and 5g every meal during the last 4 meals, L-carnitine 1 gram before working out, Axyl-l-carnitine before workout and mabe some branched amino acids. HDT(by human act development, it has 35 mg of vandyll per cap and 200mg chromium, durring the carb up. Alpha-lipolic acid durring the carbup. Flax-oil durring the keto days. Low carb protein if needed. F*uck adkins or other low carb bars during keto they contain glycerine and thats metabolized as a carbohydrate. Low-cab protein diet optimum meal replacement drinks are not that bad. Carpoplex, ultrafuel or high carb drinks durring the first 4 meals on the carb-up. Fu*k ephedrine It prevents you from gaining size. I think this diet sucks for fat loss, but Its the best for preserving muscle and gaining mass. I did it for 14 weeks. IP: Logged |
|
Cheech Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 50) |
posted June 27, 2000 10:13 PM
Please excuse my mistakes. The suppelement that you want is HDT GLX-37.5. If you can I would go out and get metformin another supplement behind the counter at you local phamarcy its a little better that alpha lipolic acid and more cost-effective inslin works as well. I hope this information helps you. This diet, I think only works good for gaining mass if you don't use steroids if you use you may want to stick to a zone type or high carb lowfat diet for maximum muscle gains minimal fat gain. IP: Logged |
|
qball Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 12) |
posted June 28, 2000 04:29 PM
thanks for your experience cheech. How much muscle did you put on? IP: Logged |
|
MR. BMJ Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 107) |
posted June 29, 2000 03:29 AM
I would have to say that these CKD diets are the best for losing fat, and not all that great for gaining muscle. I just do not see the point in trying to gain mass/muscle by following a CKD when it would be so much easier when carbs are incorporated into the diet. First-off, testosterone is lower throughout the weekdays when carbs are cut out. This is why the heavier workouts of the weekdays are done within the first 2 days before testosterone, insulin, and other growth hormones are lowered too much. Once ketosis is established, insulin is pretty much lowered to the point that it will not help in processing new muscle. I will agree that theses CKD diets are the best for preserving muscle though. For the most part, I have never encountered anyone who has really benefitted from these diets for gaining very much muscle. Glutamine prevents a couple of my friends from entering into ketosis during the weekdays so they now only take it during the carb-up. I have never seen any studies or talked to anyone who feels that ephedrine has "prevented" themfrom gaining size. If anything, it is commonly debated that people actually get an increase in muscle and a decrease in muscle loss when taking it while dieting. If I was to take creatine to gain mass, I would rather take it with grape juice, a sucrose drink, a glucose drink, etc instead of coffee for greater muscle/weight gain. I have just finished 20 weeks of a Bodyopus (30 hour weekend carb-up instead of 48) type diet, and I was able to slash my bodyfat from around 16 percent (sad) down to 6% by around weeks 12-14. The last 6 to 8 weeks were used for experimenting new supplements and strategies, etc. If someone has actually gained 30 pounds of muscle on this diet then I am envious and jealous of their accomplishments because I know I couldn't do it. It is not my place to tell someone that they did not do something they said they did. I have gained up to 15 to 18 pounds after a 48 hour carb-up where I ate a shitload of foods and carbs, but most of this was also water weight. After the carb-up, most of this excess water is lost through the weekdays. Well this was my 2 cents. I think this is my 100th post if I am not mistaken. IP: Logged |
|
Cheech Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 50) |
posted June 29, 2000 01:17 PM
I did it at low calories for getting cut, 1500-2500 but kept the carb-up the same exactly as in bodyopus. It sucked feeling beloted on the weekends. But people started noticing me more than ever. They asked me if I lifted weights, and one thought I was on steroids. The only thing I dont like is having to eat ever 1.5-2 hours even in the middle of the night you must carry carbs where ever you go. If you do the carb up exactly outlined in bodyopus but add higher calories durring the week I think you can gain muscle fast. My weight sayed the same I even went down on the bodyfat measure alot. I went up in all the weights except. I think I gained 10lbs of lean mass and lost around 7lbs of fat at the same time. I plan to use it this fall to gain mass with around 3000-3500cals with out gaining much body fat. But right now I'm on a low fat High protien diet moderate carb and I see better results from fat loss. check out these artices: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/5331/v54_gur.html http://www.gethuge.net/supp/sup17.html http://solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/ http://home.earthlink.net/~vinnyi/dieting/diets.htm IP: Logged |
|
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 494) |
posted June 29, 2000 04:08 PM
I agree 100% with MR BMJ. I think CKD is kick-ass for losing fat while sparing muscle (if you can stand feeling like sh*t for 5 days of the week). But there's no way I could maintain the weight training intensity in the gym to gain muscle on this kind on diet. I go into ketosis very quickly, usually by the Tuesday early morning, so I would only ever get in one decent monday weights session before I started just dragging my butt in and out of the gym and going through the motions. Different strokes for different folks. You'll never know how it works for you unless you try it. ------------------ IP: Logged |
|
Recoome Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 83) |
posted July 02, 2000 06:11 AM
Would this diet work for someone with an extremely fast metabolism? IP: Logged |
|
RaginAsian Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 68) |
posted July 02, 2000 05:23 PM
I disagree 100% with Mr. BMJ and MS. The anabolic diet is great for putting on lean mass. After you make the metabolic shift, you can train just as intensely because you are relying on fat rather than carbs for energy. THIS IS A BETTER, MORE EFFICIENT ENERGY SOURCE. Don't listen to idiots. Once I customized the program, it worked WONDURFURISICALLY! Supplements: Ragin Asian ------------------ IP: Logged |
|
MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 494) |
posted July 02, 2000 08:11 PM
You're free to disagree Ragin Asian, but I don't think calling Mr BMJ or myself 'Idiots' is necessary or accurate. I gave my OPINION based on my personal experience (I said it did not work for ME) and 2 decades as a dietician. As a personal trainer I have had numerous clients successfully diet on a CKD to competition levels of bodyfat with little muscle-loss. Many people do not respond the way ragin asian did to this diet. Some people can put on mass. I said that qball wouldn't know if it will work for him unless qball tried it. I believe MR BMJ also said it did not work for him, but if someone else can get real gains on this diet then he was jealous. We were just relaying our real-world results, which is what qball asked for. ------------------ IP: Logged |
|
MaxMuscle Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 175) |
posted July 03, 2000 02:49 AM
Right on MS. The only person that would be considered an idiot, is a person who believes that one diet or one thing will work well for everyone. It's great to provide diets for people to try, but you have to understand that a certain thing may work well for you, but it may not work so well for others. I know people who have tried HIT and they haven't made good progress. You must always fine tune something to make it work for you. ------------------ IP: Logged |
|
MR. BMJ Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 107) |
posted July 03, 2000 05:02 AM
WOW, WOW, WOW. I wasn't trying to piss any one off here buddy. To call me an idiot is a little harsh pal. Congratulations on your progress with gaining size on this diet, because like I said before, I couldn't do it through my personal experiences. And NO, I was not doing anything wrong either. Because insulin and other growth Hormones are lowered during the non-carb days, it should theoretically make it harder to gain muscle. If you were able to grow without carbs, then I bet you grow like a weed when they are taken in. I have done the Bodyopus/The Ketogenic Diet many times with success at losing fat. Without these diets, I would not be able to get my bodyfat levels below 8%. I just got mine down to exactly 6% (actually one measurement put me at 5.8%) 3 weeks ago until I got food poisoning (which is kind of off the topic here). Another thing I was simply pointing out here is that doing heavy weight sets is better at the beginning of the week (after your weekend carb-up) because during these days your hormonal levels will be higher than what they would be later on in the week. Also, it helps quicken your descent into ketosis, which is the whole purpose of the fucking diet in the first place. Also, I have never seen anyone that has done these diets without the use of anabolics gain size, but on the same token, they were able to preserve nearly every pound/oz of muscle while shredding themselves up. I would rather eat carbs like oatmeal, rice, potatos, etc, etc, to gain weight instead of gagging down fat. What is the point? I could see it if you were wanting to lean up, but following a CKD for mass gains is just plain torture on yourself when it could be so much easier. I do know this, when carbs are depleted like they are while in ketosis, your strength gains are totally lessened when compared to a fully compensated muscle. Well, I don't want to make this post too long, so again, like I said earlier buddy, congratulations to you and everyone else that makes considerable muscle gains on a CKD, you have me beat. But remember this, while you are eating fat for your calories, I will be getting my gains by enjoying a balanced diet of carbs, protein, and fat. So like I said, enjoy that mayo. Oh yeah, I haven't juiced in over 2 1/2 years, so whatever gains I get now are pure natural. Actually, I have been reading a lot of MS's posts, and she definately seems to know her stuff when posting. To my knowledge, she has never posted a bad post/message, and I definately would not call her an idiot because of her differences in opinions/experiences. I do not like to post too much here unless I feel like I am pretty comfortable in the topic at hand. I could have been more vague and really gotten into more detail on my previous post, but I tried to do it with a little respect to Cheech. Damn-it, I said I was gonna stop like 20 lines ago, so on this note, take it easy man. IP: Logged |
|
Mr.Peepers Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1) |
posted July 03, 2000 08:04 AM
I always use the AD when not on something.Regardless whether I'm bulking or cutting.The only difference is caloric intake.I personally prefer it for bulking over a high carb diet.When I use carbs for bulking I feel like shit.Sleepy and bloated.Plus those yummy simple sugars tend to find their way into my mouth especially when I get sleepy.On the AD I can eat all the crappy foods for 24 hrs. I find my initial strength doesn't drop that much.My strength on my first set is good but I drop big time for my second set,third set, etc.I also find my high intensity cardio easier. As far as gains the last bulking cycle I gained 12 lbs in 6 weeks.Eight lbs muscle 4 lbs fat.3000-3500 cal during week.Minimum 6000 cal during weekend.On high carb probably would have gained 50/50.(That's my experience).Starting another bulking cycle today .Keep you posted.I totally recommend it. IP: Logged |
|
RaginAsian Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 68) |
posted July 06, 2000 08:40 PM
Here's my point: Everyone says "yea" for cutting and "neah" for mass building. What? Q's just hearing cutting, cutting, cutting. Is it easy to eat 25 X your bodyweight for bulking? For most, no. But does the program work for probably 80% of the folks that try it? Yes. Why is it so goddamn popular to knock this diet, for bulking? If you're offended by my words, blow it off as rage. I'm an angry guy. But lookee here: with tweaking, yes tweaking, the diet will probably work better for you folks. Check out these tweaks and see if they make sense. I shortened the carb load to a day and made it more intense. I tended to flatten out too much over 2 days. Popped ALA like a madman leading into the weekend. Ate continuously through the carb load day. Hi-GI, low GI, who gives a fuck? MIDWEEK CARB SPIKE? No one mentioned this. Every so often I shake things up with this. Works like a champ. Varying calories? I don't like to eat 5500 calories week on end. I mix things up. I could go on with these custom tweaks. E me if you want it. Does ketosis cause you to turn into a zombie in the gym? This never happend to me and my buddies, after we made the metabolic shift. Sluggish? No way. Opinions are like... well you know, and everybody has one or more. I love the diet. Time for wings drenched in ranch sauce. Ragin Asian ------------------ IP: Logged |
|
vlaovic Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 18) |
posted July 11, 2000 10:37 AM
First off, since CKD's are so contraversial these days, I wanna say I respect whatever opinion anyone out there has about them. Having said that, personally, I'm in love with these diets. I agree with Mr. Peepers 100%. Carbs don't agree with me - I get bloated, gassy and can't control how much of them I eat. Right now, I'm bulking with the AD and it kicks ass. No drop in energy, just as long as my workouts are brief and intense. My tricks are to get the bodyparts that I'm most concerned about trained on Monday (day after carb load) and early Saturday morning (right before carb load). Even though I'm bulking, I still keep my carbup to around 30h (Saturday morning to Sunday evening). My other trick is to slam into ketosis real early in the week. Monday morning, I train on an empty stomach, then follow up the workout with high intensity interval cardio. A few hours later, I put in another brief, super-intense session of intervals. Tuesday morning, I do one more session. This way, I'm in ketosis for four full days, during which time I don't keep track of calories when bulking. I just make sure to get calories in me every 2-3 hours, and keeep fat at around 70% of daily caloric intake so as not to drop out of ketosis. Another suggestion to anyone doing a CKD is not to get too caught up with the Ketostix urin analysis method. In my opinion, they're bullshit! I hardly ever get a reading on the damn things. Too many factors can interfere with them, like drinking too much water, being very active, or who the hell knows what else! For me, it seems like if you piss the wrong way, you don't get a reading! The way I tell I'm in ketosis is I fell groggy and can't stay awake. I take a nap and awake with a highly metallic taste in my mouth, and felling alert. As long as I stay alert, and my mouth tastes like I've been eating nickles all day, I know I'm in ketosis - stix be damned. Also, while on ketosis, don't go nuts on the diet drinks, as the citric acid might interfere with ketosis. And make sure to get your daily fiber - my daily total is three teaspoons each of psyllium husk and guar gum spread throughout the day. Besides keeping your intestines healthy, it fills you up. Also, consider using a product called Stevia for sweetning. Besides being virtually carb-free with no impact on blood sugar levels, it is also a pre-biotic, again helping your intestines out. Sorry about the long post, but I hope these suggestions help. Keep ADing or Body Opusing, or whatever! IP: Logged |
|
qball Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 12) |
posted July 11, 2000 12:14 PM
Thanks for all the input! Some great info from everybody. I will experiment for myself to find out the best way for me to gain, and the tips suggested by everyone will help me to shape a sound plan for my metabolism. IP: Logged |
| |
