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 Diet Discussion Board
 reducing bodyfat and keeping muscle
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| Author | Topic: reducing bodyfat and keeping muscle |
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HashMo Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 41) |
posted June 17, 2000 11:03 AM
   hey guys, i need some advice here. before someone screams DIET and CARDIO, yes i know already. i was wondering if someone could give me some more advice.. i know your supposed to drop the calories by like 300 cal's below maintenace, and take these calories from the carbs. thus your protein and fat % will increase. and cardio 3-5 times a week in the mornings together with e/c/a commercial or otherwise. But how do i prevent losing too much muscle. the last time i did a diet like this i lost both fat AND muscle. Are u supposed to limit the time your on the diet/cardio plan? Any help would be great. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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JohnnyO Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 86) |
posted June 17, 2000 04:07 PM
Losing fat and maintaining or gaining muscle is not easy, however I find if I train the muscle group at least once a week HARD while I'm dieting that helps minimize the catobolic effect. Hope I don't sound like a commercial, but I find George's Norabol a great help in keeping the muscle on as well. Are you planning to do a ketogenic diet? John IP: Logged |
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HashMo Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 41) |
posted June 17, 2000 05:50 PM
i need to do more research on this ketogenic diet...i will start with these boards ------------------ IP: Logged |
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renagade Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 113) |
posted June 17, 2000 11:31 PM
Take in a amino acid keep your sugar as low as you can. I tend to lose some muscle but not every much I have high carb days and low carb days to keep my body guessing. Don't hold your diet to low for to long or you will lose muscle. I may not have been any help but I tried. IP: Logged |
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Mr America Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 13) |
posted June 18, 2000 11:04 AM
Hashmo: If you are really only 300 calories below maintenance you should not lose muscle. This is why you need to track your calories, aerobic calories, anaerobic calories, weight and bodyfat. All you need to do is balance out the equation. You should be adjusting your program every week or every other week. This will help prevent muscle mass loss. I've used this procedure with close to 20,000 trainee's over the last 19 years as a trainer...trust me it works! If your guys have any questions concerning this process let me know! ------------------ [This message has been edited by Mr America (edited June 18, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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genF Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 16) |
posted June 25, 2000 09:07 PM
The ketogenic diet is supposed to maintain your lean mass alot better than a low fat diet. Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale claims that it can increase lean mass by 10% in 3 months. IP: Logged |
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Romeo Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 315) |
posted July 11, 2000 06:22 PM
mr america if you wouldnt mind emailing me so we could talk about your prcedure i would really appreciate it peace romeo IP: Logged |
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MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 528) |
posted July 11, 2000 07:09 PM
Hashmo, it depends on how much protein you're already eating. Many dieters need to increase the absolute amount of protein, not just drop carbs. And the recipe also depends on what kind of diet your on (you need more protein on a low fat/ lower carb diet than on a ketogenic or anabolic diet). Explore all the leads above and pick a diet and goal that you're going to stick with. If I were you I would follow up Mr America's advice since the best results will come from regular monitoring and adjustment of your diet AND training program. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted July 11, 2000 11:58 PM
In my opinion, the single best way to achieve very low fat percentages (lowest I've hit is between 4 and 5) while maintaing virtually all muscle is through either a cyclical ketogenic diet (Anabolic Diet or Body Opus) or a timed ketogenic diet, but not a contiunous state of ketosis. The crux of the CKD is to keep calories at around maintenace from Monday morning to Friday eveneing. Your calories MUST be about 70% fat, 25% protein and less than 5% carbs (never more than 30g, under 20g is even better). I'm not talking a small piece of fruit per day - no chance! The carbs will come from insignifcant sources that gradually add up (I have to count the 0.6g in each egg I eat! It's mostly cream, cheese and aritifical sweetners though). You don't need more protein than 25% because the CKD is anti-catabolic. Eat more protein than that and it gets turned to glucose by your body and metabolized similarily to a carbohydrate. Come the weekend, you carb load in order to achieve glycogen supercompensation that delivers a massive anabolic burst, further preventing muscle loss, and even promoting muscle gain! Buy Body Opus by Dan Duchaine, follow it to the letter (if you can) and there is no way you'll be any more than 5% body fat with your current muscle mass. If you want to add muscle while achieving a lower body fat than you have now, try the Anabolic Diet by Mauro di Pisquale (it's less strict and more fun than Body Opus anyway). IP: Logged |
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Buld0g Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 88) |
posted July 12, 2000 02:29 PM
Listen to vlaovic...he knows what he's talking about. Also load up on L-glutimine and BCAA's and it will help suppress the catabolic effects from dieting. Are you taking anobolic steroids while dieting...cause if so you can worry much less about looseing muscle. IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted July 12, 2000 04:31 PM
Buldog's right about L-gluatamine and BCAA's - no matter what diet you're on, these are two powerful anti-catabolic supplements. If you do decide to go keto however, watch your L-gluatamine doses carefully. I just take two to three 2g doses during the low carb phase, as more can kick you out of ketosis. On the weekend however, take as much glutamine as you can afford! (up to 20g each carb day, if you've got the cash for it) And take it in 5g doses as this ammount has been shown to help further jam those carbs into the muscles. IP: Logged |
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Serial Joe Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 106) |
posted July 13, 2000 04:01 PM
So what happens when your thyroid's production of T3 stops, as will most certainly happen while on a ketogenic diet? IP: Logged |
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MS Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 528) |
posted July 13, 2000 04:21 PM
That's one of the many reasons of following a cyclical ketogenic diet with regular carb-ups(as opposed to an Atkin's style of keto). It keeps the thyroid functioning very nicely. IP: Logged |
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Serial Joe Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 106) |
posted July 13, 2000 04:32 PM
I know....I was being sarcastic. The dude vlaovic is on another thread commenting (bashing it actually) the Animalbolics diet (Warrior diet if you're a Biotest shill) which is a modified CKD, yet comes over to this thread proclaiming the greatness of Ketogenic diets. [This message has been edited by Serial Joe (edited July 13, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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biguun Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 13) |
posted July 13, 2000 05:00 PM
If you want to losse fat drop the calorie intake back more. increase cardio, try a thermogenic lipok, diet fuil, xenedrine, and get a good balanced diet. IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted July 13, 2000 11:10 PM
Actually, (Serial Joe) if you take the time to read my post, you'll see that I comment on the diet as a "sound approach to bodybuilding". I merely say that Eric Hesse has no claim to it, since it's been used for so long. And the diet Hesse explains has nothing to do with a CKD- you dry drinking orange juice all day and see if you ever hit ketosis!! As for the Warrior Diet, since I don't know too much about it, I decided not to say a single word that particular way of eating, and rather comment only on what I read on the Ironmag website, called Animalbolics. So don't put words into my mouth. [This message has been edited by vlaovic (edited July 13, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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ore Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 25) |
posted July 14, 2000 12:47 AM
Actually, Serial Joe, when your thyroid's production of T3 stops, as will most certainly happen while on a ketogenic diet, you die. But death is generally regarded as the fastest way to lose weight. IP: Logged |
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seeseerider Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 59) |
posted July 14, 2000 01:07 AM
you can try metabolic thyrolean from prolab,i know it did work for me;-) IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted July 14, 2000 11:11 AM
Regarding thyroid, it will never get fucked up on a CKD, unless you drop calories too far down or overtrain during the ketoginc phase (Mon-Fri). If there is a mild disruption in thyroid, it always gets bumped back up during the carb-load. Speaking from personal experience, I have used CKD's and am using a CKD right now, and weather cutting calories to diet, or boosting them to bulk, I have never had a trace of any thyroid problems. This doesn't mean others won't have them, it just means that I don't. The diet works for ME and and I encourige others to try it. If it fucks with your system, then go off of it. No diet will work for everyone, but don't knock the CKD 'till you try it. IP: Logged |
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Serial Joe Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 106) |
posted July 14, 2000 12:13 PM
I think someone needs to explain to this guy the importance of thyroid hormones in relation to fat loss and calorie restriction. Or more simply that of T3 and gluconeogenesis [This message has been edited by Serial Joe (edited July 14, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted July 14, 2000 12:45 PM
What the hell are you doing on this thread anyway? The whole point of this thread is to suggest ways of better preserving muscle mass while dieting. I suggested that the CKD may be a good option - the best option, in MY OPINION, since it WORKED FOR ME. You came on with a militant attiutude towards me for what, I don't know. Saying that Eric Hesse has no claim to the age-old diet he called Animalbolics? Saying that the CKD works for me, and suggesting it as an option for others? Saying it does not interfere with MY thyriod? What exactly is your problem? If you think the CKD is unsafe, then don't follow it. Contribute to the discussion by explaining why you think this. If you think the diet Hesse suggests (which, by the way, I did for over a month last year) preserves muscle better, then say so and actually contribute something meaningful to this thread. I never tried pushing the CKD on anyone, even though it is my favorite diet - all I ever said is that I like it and gave my reasons why. You on the other hand, after misunderstanding my post on the other thread, percieved that I was insulting the so-called Animalbolics diet, which I was not. So with that in mind, explain why the CKD is not a good otion for preserving muscle mass while dieting, if this is indeed your opinion, and discuss the thyroid issues which I freely admit, I only know a little bit about (since I never had any problems with CKD, I never had a reason to research that particular concern). But don't attack me for saying Hesse has no right claiming the so-called Animalbolics diet as his own. If you wnat to debate this issue with me, start a new thread, because this discussion is supposed to suggest how to most efficiently preserve LBM while dieting. So if you really know as much as you seem to indicate about thyroid, tell us why you think the CKD may not be as good as I think it is. If you want to debate Hesse, do so on another thread. [This message has been edited by vlaovic (edited July 14, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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Serial Joe Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 106) |
posted July 14, 2000 02:35 PM
Touched a nerve there I think.... LOL IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted July 14, 2000 02:52 PM
Not at all. I welcome debate and disagreement, if there is a point behind it. p.s. I was not sarcastic about you telling us what you know about thyroid, etc. Whether or not you agree with me about Hesse or CKD's, you seem to know more then me about that subject. IP: Logged |
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Serial Joe Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 106) |
posted July 14, 2000 03:03 PM
Yeah don't worry about it bro. I really don't know all that much, well I thought I did and I was totally convinced that CKD was the way but I met Eric at a show in Toronto. He's one smart mofo. Fucken guy made me look silly. He said it was something about how with CKD diets you end up making great weight loss (mostly water, as carbs carry alot of water) and after you come off of the diet you balloon right back up again. Even short periods of carb restriction (a few days) result in lowered T3 and drops in metabolism. It's not a long term diet. Something along those lines..... Anyways sorry about the badmouthing.... IP: Logged |
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vlaovic Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 48) |
posted July 14, 2000 03:46 PM
All's forgotten! You're right about Hesse being smart though. I've read just about every article on www.ironmag.com, so I know what you mean. As far as what I know about T3, thyroid and stuff, it seems to go out of whack for some, and not at all for others on a CKD. I know Lyle McDonald had problems with it when first doing the CKD, but only when he drastically starved himself and overtrained on cardio. Like everything about CKD's, it seems to very big time from individual to individual. p.s. no hard feelings! IP: Logged |
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