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 Diet Discussion Board
 1st Keto Diet
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| Author | Topic: 1st Keto Diet | ||
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Novice 
Posts: 4 |
ok...i've read the posts about this keto diet and i have a few questions...ok..first off i just started this diet 3 days ago and i'm consuming around 220g of protein, and under 15g of carbs...NEED GOOD ADVICE..i'm only 20 years old,i'm 5'11''204, about 12%bf...so far i'm noticing a little feeling of sluggishness during my workouts...but i'm still trying to have strenuous workouts...i'm also taking Hydroxycut(12 a day)...ok....here's the questions....a couple of people talk about a carb up cycle during this diet and i would like to know when and how much carbs to do this with? second...one person said they could tell more fat around their waste in three days..before this diet i did three weeks of no more than 130 carbs a day with a cheat day each week, in three days of the keto i can already tell my waist is thinner..should i up my protein grams to around 300 to 400? i'm mainly just wanting to shred down...so is keeping this diet of under 15 carbs per day, and then after two weeks, slowly building my carbs back up, ex. no more than 150 carbs the next week, then 250, then350 and so on...till i'm around the size i want...will this do the trick? or will i have opposite results..like one dude said you would gain fat as soon as you quit the diet? thats why i'm slowly pyramiding the carbs back up... reply are greatly appreciated...     | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder 
Posts: 143 |
Ok BigDog it was me that noticed a gain of fat around my waist. But if you are really following the Ketogenic diet and eating 220g of protein per day then you would have to be eating about 290 - 300g of fat per day also. If you are not eating 290 - 300g of fat per day then you are not on the ketogenic diet, but rather a low calorie high protein diet. On the true ketogenic diet 25% of your calories come from protein while the other 75% comes from fat, give or take the small amount of carbs allowed. The problem is unless you are using insulin you will not enter ketosis until the 3rd or 4th day of the diet i.e. your body will not start burning fat until day 3 or 4 of the ketogenic diet. This leaves only 1 or 2 days per week when your body will actually be burning fat. The sixth day is when you carb load and your diet changes to high carbs, moderate protein, low fat. | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 73 |
not true about the 25% thing PRotein intake is based on weight Fat is then based on # of calories you want to consume per day. Since the idea of protein intake is to take in the max your body can assimilate (ie: based on weight), and eat no more, so as not to convert excess protein into fat. For me, my fat intake is lower than my protein intake.. | ||
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Novice
Posts: 4 |
ok...i'm cosuming about 1800 calories, 220 g of protein, under 15 carbs, and fat is about the same as protein...maybe a little less... according to the Ketostix urinalysis strips, i entered the Ketosis state my second day and have stayed in between the small and moderate level...does this seem ok for the diet? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 212 |
i just want to add in that it would be impossible to gain noticable fat around your waist in 3 days. especially on a calorie deficit diet. impossible. i lost an inch around mine on the keto within 5 days. also, I got into ketosis within 2.5 days. how? ALA, alpha lipolic acid. take fuckin 200mg after every meal, then like 600 at night before. this stuff makes you feel like shit, but it will get you in keto. then take it like 100mg a night. the sluggish feeling fades after you are in ketosis. also, another thing i might add. is that what I have reverted to doing on my diet is on saturday for example, I ate carbs (maybe 150g total, between 8AM and 3PM. i then proceeded to load up on the ALA like a motherfucker, and I shit you not I did not go under "moderate" ketone levels, and was back in deep ketosis by monday morning... im no expert though,,, I can't believe MS or MRBMJ havent posted yet... man you dont mean youre have the same amount of grams of fat as protein do ya? 200g fat = 1800 calories right there. im goin 60%fat 40protein. [This message has been edited by px1138 (edited January 25, 2001).] | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 78 |
BigDog, remember to not make it more complicated than it already is (or isn't). What you want to be on from my understanding is a CKD (cyclic ketogenic diet). From such authors as Dan Duchaine, Mauro Dipasquale and Lyle Mcdonald, they recommend the highest percentage of total calories per day coming from fat. The kind and variety of fats is a whole new post. Your first few days of noticing an immediate weight drop isn't from fat loss, it's due to a drop in water weight from the lack of carbs in your diet. For me it's immediate gratification :-) Anyway, I never used the ketostix while on this diet. Try not to go for any carbs during the week, this will ensure fat loss. Why take a chance? You'll be carbing up on the weekends anyway. So try and keep it like this: 60-70%fat (yuck!), 30-40% protein, carbs as low as possible, only natural occuring in low carb foods. For myself, this diet worked much better when I went on a 6 day no carb instead of a 5 day, then I'd carb load for 2 days. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder 
Posts: 1182 |
Yup, protein should be based on your LBM, and the rest is FAT. For most people this works out to around equal grams of fat and protein, or 75% fat. Just because you're not in ketosis doen't mean you won't burn significant amounts of fat, it just means your still burning both carbs AND fat (like on a more traditional diet). Remember, ketosis or not, you should still be in calorie deficit on this diet. And if you don't feel you're losng fat quickly enough on this diet you can reduce your calories, reduce the length of your carb-up, or extend the high-fat phase between carb-ups. I may try this diet again, but with a 10 day low carb phase followed by 36-48 hour carb-up. Good luck. | ||
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Novice
Posts: 4 |
ok...exactly how much fat grams should i intake a day..? ok...for instance...today...i've had 10 carbs, 210 g of protein, 1835 calories, and 75 g of fat... will this be sufficient? or should i up my fat intake..?also i'm gonna throw in 4 days of cardio...each 30 min. | ||
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Cool Novice 
Posts: 19 |
I'm trying a CKD at the moment, 3rd week. Haven't really noticed much of change in fat loss, but you definitely lose the water from under your skin. I'm still fideling around with it to see what works and what doesn't. I was used this site as a guide to Lyle McDonald's CKD diet. http://www.voicenet.com/~petrizzi/fitness/ckdcalc.html It calculates the weeks macro breakdown. Also anyone here on a CKD do 2 days or 1 day carb-up, and have they noticed a difference between the two? ------------------ | ||
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Cool Novice
Posts: 19 |
I'm trying a CKD at the moment, 3rd week. Haven't really noticed much of change in fat loss, but you definitely lose the water from under your skin. I'm still fideling around with it to see what works and what doesn't. I was used this site as a guide to Lyle McDonald's CKD diet. http://www.voicenet.com/~petrizzi/fitness/ckdcalc.html It calculates the weeks macro breakdown. Also anyone here on a CKD do 2 days or 1 day carb-up, and have they noticed a difference between the two? ------------------ | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 143 |
BigDog First of all forget what anyone else has told you and read what you have said yourself. Your last days diet was: 10g of carbs 4 cals/g = 40 cals Total calories = 1555 Protein = 54 % Now if you are in Ketosis and loosing fat great, where is your problem? and why would you want to increase the amount of fat in your diet????? Just because Duchaine, and all these other guy's said the ketogenic diet should consist of 70% fat 30% protein does not make them right. Basically what you are on (as I suspected) is a low calorie high protien diet not unlike what many competitive bodybuilders use while dieting for a competition. Your initial weight loss as someone pointed out earlier was due to water lose. However if you are not on gear i.e. Natural and continue on this diet you will loose muscle mass. You could try increasing your protein as it seems a bit low, you are only taking 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight. Up that to 1.5g or 2g per pound of bodyweight. MS is going to love this, but I have talked to a natural female competitor, well apart from her ECA, anyway she told me she eats 400 - 500g of protein per day while dieting for a competition. However even at that level of protein intake she still looses 25 - 30 lb's weight for her competitons, and no she is not that fat in her offseason either. She has tried every diet you can think of including the ketogenic diet and found that only the high protein low calorie diet works for her. | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder
Posts: 1182 |
Maybe you have misunderstood me from the beginning MadMitch. I also eat high protein (around 60% of my calories) when I'm dieting for a show. I also lose around 30 lbs and I'm nowhere near 'fat' in the off season. Of course, I lose around 6 of those pounds in the first 2 weeks when I lose water from switching from high carb/sodium diet to low carb/sodium, and another 6 lbs in the last 2 days when I dehydrate, so it's nowhere near 30 lbs of 'real' weight. I once gained 16 lbs in 3 days with post-competition glycogen filling and water retention! Most women (that aren't on gear) will be in a similar sitch regarding lots of fluid to lose. But I've also never claimed that a natural can diet down to low %bf and NOT LOSE MUSCLE!! Of course you'll lose some muscle. Even on gear some muscle loss is inevitable, just not as much as a natty. And this is true whether you're on a CKD, Zone or high protein/medium carb diet. BTW I consider 'all protein' diets to be very similar to diets with moderate carbs and high protein. Both in theory and in my body, the gluconeogenesis from excess protein is plenty to make my body think it's getting some carbs. In effect, what's important is to take in less calories than you burn and get enough protein to slow down muscle catabolism. Any of the above diets will work, it's really just a matter of what suits different individuals. | ||
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Novice
Posts: 4 |
ok...i did a carb up this weekend from midday saturday through sunday...i'm going to start back up this week..so far i'm seeing just a loss of fat on my waist and in my face... i may be getting some gear as you all call it ... its some Win V... i hear great results from close friends about this... would i be able to keep the same keto diet for the 7 week cycle of this...or should i only do the diet half of the cycle? if i decide to do it... also what kind of diet should i be on during the 7 weeks in your opinion madmitch? are you personally familiar with this brand of gear? | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder
Posts: 143 |
Right Bigdog if you are still loosing fat I would stick to the diet rather than start using steroids. Why? well the lower you can get your body fat naturally the better the steroids will work when you do start using them. If you have any doubts, just look at some pictures of Flex Wheeler when he started bodybuilding. He was as skinny as rake. As for your friends results on Winstrol, yes winstrol will make you loose fat and water due to it's anti progesterone properties and it will make your muscles look and feel a lot harder. But for now stick to your diet and training and see how far that takes you. |
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posted January 24, 2001 11:49 PM