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  Elite Fitness Bodybuilding, Anabolics, Diet, Life Extension, Wellness, Supplements, and Training Boards
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  Ketogenic Diet questions

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Author Topic:   Ketogenic Diet questions
Beefcake

Cool Novice

Posts: 16
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted January 16, 2001 07:23 PM

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Has anyone read the book 'The Ketogenic Diet' by Lyle McDonald, and if so is it worth buying?

Also I was wondering if anyone has tried the various low carb diets and found one works better than the other? (is there much difference between the atkins, ketogenic, anabolic and the other low carb diets?)

I've just started following the ketogenic diet and was wondering what day is usual for entering ketosis? I started monday and today (wed) the ketostix showed no signs of ketones. My carbs have been below 20g everyday. Is it okay to eat just under 20g or should you shoot for 0 or as low as possible?

Also, can you eat foods which contain splenda or other sugar substitutes instead of containing carbs, like sugar-free gum and sugar-free jelly?

And with the weekend carb-up, should you ingest complex carbs or can you eat some simple to replenish your glycogen stores without storing any as fat deposits?

Any help will be muchly appreciated....

I live in Australia so I have to order the book from America and it will take 4 weeks to get here (reason for all the questions hehe)


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johnny iron

Cool Novice

Posts: 40
From:chicago, il
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 16, 2001 07:44 PM

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Do yourself a favor, go to www.thepowerstore.com
while there, click on articles and look for the one labeled the ketogenic diet, should clear up everything for you. Don't spend money on the book, all the info you'll need on this diet is online. Here's my version: Days 1-5, no carbs, just whatever is in meats and certain types of cheese, i try to keep the carbs as low as possible, fat loss seems to come easier that way. I then do a carb up period starting saturday after my work out and continue throughout Sunday. In reality, thats a one and a half day carb up. Saturdays workout is a total body depletion workout as oulined in bodyopus. I just do one or two sets of an exercise for each muscle group. Then have my postworkout drink, and load on creatine for those two days, while taking in huge amounts of water. I eat both low and high glycemic carbs, as long as i have some protein with them. By Tuesday evening, the excess water is gone, and I'm in my best shape. Too many details to outline here, but take advantage of your low carb diet to the max. Use it for fat loss, don't cheat at all and it should work like a charm. Has for me and all of my friends who have followed it to a T.


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liquidplaya

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 69
From:Canada
Registered: Dec 2000

posted January 16, 2001 08:39 PM

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i havent read the book
but lyle mcdonald's book is basically online in his various publications.. a lot of Q and A at www.mesomorphosis.com can be found..
Ive tried TKD and CKD type diets
I prefer TKD because im eating carbs only when I need it, and i dont leave ketosis to maximize fat loss, and I dont like the crazy training day before the carb up.

entering ketosis depends on how much exercise your doing, you should know when you enter ketosis for the first time
its like being slightly high on weed if U ask me..
20g of carbs is ok.
I thought that aspartame was screwing up my ketosis, but now I think it might be dairy products, i still have to test it out some more.. but diet pop seems to not kick me out of ketosis..

for the carbup im not positive, but it should be hi GI at first, then moving to lower GI, since you are not overcompensating after a while..

I've been on the TKD since beginning of december, with about a week off after new years. I took pics before, and I'll be taking pics after... I'm estimating my before to be around 16% BF
and I'm not stopping until I reach at least 10%, or low enuff so im a ripped beast, whatevr that will be.
I'll post pics when I take some more, maybe it'll be good motivation....


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MS

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1132
From:Somewhere in the South Pacific
Registered: May 2000

posted January 16, 2001 11:51 PM

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1) read up more about this diet online like the guys above suggested.

2) don't worry too much about the ketostix. If you're drinking enough water (as you should be) or take the measurement at the wrong time of the day then it may be meaningless.

3) keep your carbs as low as you can, especially until you enter ketosis

4) How do you know if you're in ketosis? You can just FEEL it. Plus distinctive bad breath. If you're not sure, then you're probably not in ketosis.

5) Everybody is different, and this diet is no exception. Aspartame may stop you from entering ketosis, or not. 20 grams of carbs per day may be too much or too little for you. Basically you have to be a little in tune with your body to make this diet work well.

6) The carb-up period is also a personal experience that requires experimentation to make it just right for you. Some people (is MR BMJ out there?) can only go for a 24-36 hour carb-up without overdoing it, others can go 48 hours or longer on any sort of carbs and still lose fat.

So in summary, read and learn all you can, then see what works for you! And also remember that a ketogenic diet doesn't work well for everyone. Good luck.


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MR. BMJ

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 376
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted January 17, 2001 03:49 AM

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Hi MS, i'm in the middle of transfering colleges right now, so i've been kind of busy with some paper work and class scheduling, etc. Even though I haven't posted very much lately, I still manage to run throught some posts before I go to bed. BTW, it's nice to see ya postin again. Hope the holidays were good to ya.

Anyway, I agree with everything that MS said and I can't really add anything else that is much different. I still would use the ketostix to give you a rough estimate, but like MS said, don't take the results as absolute. I don't have any problems with artificial sweeteners. The only one I am not too sure on right now is Stevia just because when I use EAS's "Simply Protein", which contains stevia as a sweetener, it usually takes me about a day longer to reach ketosis than when I take Designer Protein. But this could also be because of the extra total amount of carbs that are in Simply Protein. It could just be me too, if any one has any experience with stevia directly, I would like to know your results. Again, this is probably just due to the extra sugar contained in the product.

As far as Lyle McDonalds book goes, I had it for a few days and lost it in a moving process along with some Duchaine e-mails, my "40 oz to Freedom" Cd, and some other old articles from Elite (and other boards, etc.)that I had printed out a couple of years ago when I used to post on here. However, I think Lyle's diet is truly effective. I have learned a lot from this guy, and admire his style of how he goes about doing things. There is only so many different ways you can do a CKD. The whole point is to enter ketosis as fast/efficiently as possible, then do some sort of whole body workout followed by a carb-up. That's it. Everything else is just fine tuning.

Well, I don't really know where I am going with this, and i'm probably just repeating what MS said, so I'll stop here.
MR. BMJ


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puregains

Novice

Posts: 6
From:
Registered: Dec 2000

posted January 17, 2001 11:47 AM

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I'm also trying this Ketogenic Diet. I've been eating sausages/bacon/eggs/mayo and cheese , and lots of water. Anybody got any creative foods to try out?


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Beefcake

Cool Novice

Posts: 16
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted January 17, 2001 07:56 PM

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Thanks alot guys, I ordered the book yesterday so i'll see if I can cancel it...
thanks again, i'll keep you posted as to my progress.


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Beefcake

Cool Novice

Posts: 16
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted January 17, 2001 07:57 PM

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Has anyone tried gaining muscle while on a ketogenic diet?


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johnny iron

Cool Novice

Posts: 40
From:chicago, il
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 17, 2001 09:21 PM

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Puregains: Try getting a copy of an atkins recipe book for some variety, but stick with what your doing, it IS the best way. The atkins recipe books have some ideas for sauces and entrees but most are a pain to prepare. For a snack, I eat pork skins with some kind of high fat low/no carb dip. Closest think I can come to a potato chips!!

Beefcake: I did gain strength the last time I was on a ketogenic diet. However, I was following a periodization program, so that's probably why I maxed out on a few lifts. The part that sucked was my strength was up, but not much of a pump by Friday, psychologically that can make you feel down.


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