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Author Topic:   Probiotics
vlaovic

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 358
From:Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Jul 2000

posted September 30, 2000 12:12 AM

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This is a continuation of the probiotics talk started by me on the "weight gainer" post.

To the person who asked where to get good probiotics...

Try Mega Acidophilus at your friendly neighbourhood GNC. In fact, get anything that combines cultures of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium bifidum and Lactobacillus bulgaricus in a citrus pectin base - I suggested GNC-brand Mega Acidophilus because that's what I've been using with great results... also I work at GNC and get it for dirt-cheap, so if you find a comparable product elsewhere for cheaper, by all means buy it.
By great results I mean that I've pushed protein intake very high, while at the same time actually reduced gas and bloating in a major way. Is the added protein absorbtion doing any good? You bet your ass, my recovery has very noticably improved (ie not sore for as long) in only a week or two.
As far as dosage, I always take 2 caps at a time (1.5 billion live cells per cap) after meals - I let gas/bloating dictate with how many of my 6 or 7 meals to take it with. If I am feeling bloated after a meal, that tells me the protein isn't being absorbed fully, which means I'll take the probiotic.

This works for me and I can't guarantee great results for everyone else. As far as absorbtion, also get fiber through food and supplements to further help your gut deal with protein.


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Weapon X

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 668
From:Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 01, 2000 04:41 PM

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Thanks for the very helpful information.
I had always just thought that gas and bloating were unavoidable. This is very good news for me.
Has anyone had any good results with lactaid? I haven't...


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Weapon X

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 668
From:Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 03, 2000 12:10 AM

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Dude at GNC today told me to take activated charcoal, because probiotics "don't work."
he also said that after about 5 days, my body would adjust itself to the higher protein intake.
I think you sound more knowledgeable than he, though.


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GetHuge

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 273
From:
Registered: Jul 2000

posted October 03, 2000 02:09 PM

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Probiotics do work, but they eventually die off in the intestine if you don't feed them. There is a sugar called Fructooligosaccarides, which allow the bacteria to flourish and reproduce on their own in the gut. They are found in fruits, or you can by them in pills at GNC.


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riskybiz007

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 329
From:CA, usa
Registered: Jun 2000

posted October 03, 2000 03:13 PM

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i personally have developed stomach problems as of late and i personally think it's due to the whey, i'm probobly taking too much.
What's better for stomach or absorption? The probiotics or what? and at what doses?


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Weapon X

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 668
From:Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 03, 2000 04:20 PM

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Sounds like Sea Monkeys...


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The Dude

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 449
From:Owensboro, KY
Registered: Jun 2000

posted October 03, 2000 07:54 PM

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My guess would be that for the stomach, you'd want to look at enzymes. The bacteria take up residence in your intestines. GNC has plenty of enzymes that you can browse through and ask questions about. However, you probably can find them cheaper via the internet. Of course, you can always just do searches on the net to find info.

------------------
The difference between involved and committed can best be explained using a bacon and egg breakfast as an example: The chicken is involved but the pig is committed.


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MR. BMJ

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 164
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted October 04, 2000 04:59 AM

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Thanks with the great info VLAOVIC. might have to give this stuff a try sometime.


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Weapon X

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 668
From:Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 04, 2000 04:37 PM

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Combined results of yesterday's MRP and N-Large2 doses ripped my ass up yesterday.
Today I start the Probiotics. So far so good, though my belly is still distended.
If I'm not farting all night, I'll be ahead of the game.


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vlaovic

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 358
From:Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Jul 2000

posted October 04, 2000 07:57 PM

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Sorry about ignoring my own post for a while, but my connection's been down...

To the guy who had an "encounter" with a "knowledgable" GNC employee: speaking from first hand experience, 9/10 of my fellow overpriced-protein sales men and women don't know the difference between protein and creatine, so don't get too caught up in what they say. Every once in a while, you'll see a knowledgable person at GNC, but many have been hired based on pure sales experience, or knowledge in herbal products NOT sports nutrition. Usually every store will have their one token "sports guy" that actually lifts weights and eats protein.

As far as whey gas, whoever mentioned enzymes is dead-on. Buy a good multi-enzyme, and take it by busting open the cap and tossing the contents into your protein shake and letting them sit there for a few minutes. In effect this simultaes the pre-digestion many companies claimon their labels, but takes it to a higher level. Then, before a half-hour or so after sucking it back, take your probiotics.


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vlaovic

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 358
From:Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Jul 2000

posted October 04, 2000 08:09 PM

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I knew I forgot to say something I wanted...

Dosages of probiotics:
If each cap contains 1.5 billion live cultures, take two after meals/shakes. For the first few days, I recommend "loading" to get the life back into your gut. Another words take this dose after EVERY meal (even if you have 7 per day like yours truly!). I took half the dose between meals on ocassion as well and felt great. Now, I have one or two caps after my post-workout shake and again after my post-post-workout shake (1h after workout) since I'm jamming two 40g protein drinks into my system with only an hour in between. I'll also have two caps after a meal late in the day if I feel I need them, and I'll have another one before sleep. Yeah, it's a lot, but I get it dirt-cheap.

As for fructoguggulsacharides (is that right??) or the preffered spelling, FOS (aka PREbiotics) I think it's good stuff and whoever mentioned it feeding the gut bacteria is absolutely right. Thing is none of three GNC's in my fuckin' town carry any, so I'm not even getting all the possible benefits of bacteria supplementation by simply using the probiotics.


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Weapon X

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 668
From:Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 05, 2000 03:01 PM

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Am currently supplementing with a 1000mg mix of Lactobacillus acidophilus, lactobacillus plantarum, lactobacillus bulgaricus, lactobacillus casei, S. thermophilus, Bifidbacterium bifidum, S. faecium, and Bifidobacterium infantis.

Sound good?

If I stop taking this, will my digestion freak?


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vlaovic

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 358
From:Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Jul 2000

posted October 06, 2000 08:04 PM

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Yeah, it sounds good.
As for if you stop taking, well I would at least take it once or twice per day once your digestion becomes accumstomed to your protein intake and the gas/bloating stops.
Or you could figure out some way of cycling it to save money, but if you quit for too long, you may end up where you started, having to take lots in order to bring your gastrointestinal tract back into balance.

Basically, experiment with what keeps your body feeling good, but doesn't break your bank either.


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cockdezl

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 405
From:
Registered: 2000

posted October 07, 2000 07:42 PM

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The increase in gas production and bloating with protein increase is due to the fact that protein increases the population of anaerobes, such as Bacteroides and Fusobacterium. These organisms along with other bacteria increase the consumption of amino acids and produce nasty by products, such as skatole, putrescine, cadaverine and other indole-compounds. Vegetarians have lower levels of anaerobes and higher levels of fermentative bacteria, such as Lactobacilli and Bifidobacterium.

The consumption of probiotic preparations has been shown to reduce the levels of various competitive organisms, due to their ability to reduce the environmental pH. With the reduction in anaerobe populations, will come a reduction in gas production. Theoretically this may also increase protein absorption due to less utilization of dietary protein by fecal flora.

The following article shows good reason for a probiotic supplement along with green tea extract:

J Vet Med Sci 1995 Feb;57(1):45-9

"Effect of tea polyphenols on fecal flora and fecal metabolic products of pigs."

Hara H, Orita N, Hatano S, Ichikawa H, Hara Y, Matsumoto N, Kimura Y, Terada A, Mitsuoka T

Department of Food Hygiene, Nippon Veterinary and Animal Science University, Tokyo, Japan.

The effects of tea polyphenols on fecal flora and fecal metabolic activities were studied in eight 30-day-old pigs fed a basal diet (control) or the diet supplemented with 0.2% of tea polyphenols for 2 weeks. During tea polyphenol administration compared to before administration, the levels of lactobacilli were increased significantly (P < 0.05 and P < 0.01 on days 7 and 14 of administration, respectively), whereas the levels of total bacteria (P < 0.01) and bacteroidaceae (P < 0.01 and P < 0.001 on days 7 and 14 of administration, respectively) were decreased significantly. The detection rate of lecithinase positive clostridia including Clostridium perfrigens showed a tendency to decrease during administration. No detectable change occurred in the levels of other organisms throughout the experimental period. Fecal concentrations of ammonia were decreased significantly (P < 0.05 and P < 0.01 on days 7 and 14 of administration, respectively). Fecal phenol (P < 0.001), p-cresol (P < 0.05), and skatol (P < 0.01) were reduced significantly on day 14 of administration compared to before administration. The amounts of fecal short chain fatty acids, acetic acid (P < 0.05) and lactic acid (P < 0.05) were increased significantly on day 14 of administration. The pH values were decreased slightly during administration. The odour of the feces was reduced remarkably during tea polyphenol administration.


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vlaovic

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 358
From:Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Jul 2000

posted October 09, 2000 01:32 PM

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Thanks for the green tea information - I had no clue it also has these benefits.


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riskybiz007

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 329
From:CA, usa
Registered: Jun 2000

posted October 09, 2000 01:42 PM

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someone recommended me enzymes. What's the difference between the PROBIOTICS and ENZYMES? i can't find info on the net.
thanks


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giantset

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 434
From:Bumfuckt Egypt
Registered: Jan 2000

posted October 10, 2000 01:29 AM

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I just went to GNC and of course the moron at the counter didn't know what enzymes or probiotics were. I found and bought two bottles of GNC brand "digestive enzymes". Will this work or will I need to pick-up something else?

Thanks,
giantset


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susty

Cool Novice

Posts: 25
From:
Registered: Apr 2000

posted October 11, 2000 12:28 PM

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first off,i would like to commend vlaovic on being an intelligent,seemingly diversified human being.....its nice to see someone explore the benefits of supplements other than the ones directly related to anabolism.

But anyways,one more quick note,weapon x...DO NOT listen to anyone at a GNC(for the most part)....vlaovic would be an exception,but knowledgable sales reps at GNC(like he said)are very few and far between...and as for the activated charcoal bit....that just goes to prove that the dude you talked to WAS INDEED A FUCKIN IDIOT!the act. charcoal may help a bit with bloating and such....BUT (and heres the important part to remember about this particular substance)act. charcoal binds to things(sort of sucks them up rather)(making ita great supplement for food poisoning by the way,can work in a few hours for relief)including vitamins,minerals,and other supplements...so it is definately a BAD IDEA to take on anything other than a very temporary basis...as this will cause nut. deficiencies eventually as well as render any other supps. that your taking less effective.
Hope this helps someone.


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Weapon X

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 668
From:Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 11, 2000 10:47 PM

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Thanks, susty.
I did not buy the activated charcoal. Even with what little I know, I wasn't buying that line.


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vlaovic

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 358
From:Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Jul 2000

posted October 16, 2000 12:24 AM

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007, enzymes and probiotics are different.
Enzymes are chemical compounds required to brake down nutrients. Probiotics are live bacteria that live in your gut that break down nutrients. They both help a great deal. The probiotics, I find, go better with helping the gas issues. Enzymes work exceptionally well with protein powders. By tossing the contents of your enzyme capsules in with your shakes, you in effect begin the protein digestion process before the stuff even hits your stomach.

As for all this GNC talk - susty's right
And on that note, it looks like I'm just not GNC materiel because I got fired last week!!
Never mind I had awsome sales figures, all they cared about was bullshit paperwork. Also, they were pissed because apparently 4 middle-aged women were complaining about my lack of knowledge regarding PMS formulations. While it's true I don't know fuck all about PMS, I also wouldn't be surprised if they were just saying that to get rid of me - I honestly think they prefer having unknowledgable salespeople because they can brainwash them into thinking GNC products are the best - they're NOT! Like I said, I only bought them 'cause I got them for cheap.
The funny thing is I got another job at another health food store the very same day those idiots fired me.

Well, that's my rant of the month. (probably should have put it on the chat board, but fuck it)


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