With the degredation of the election process into one that was determined more by lawyers than by the will of the people. Then you compound this with our current tax system that basically steals half of your income for Federal, State and Local taxes. Then you further add in all of the Federal and State regulations that govern our daily existance to the point where simply traviling anywhere in this country requires you to:

1. Go see the state police to get a license.
2. Pay for insurance that you will probably use once or twice in your life Max and
3. Requires you to produce the appropriate "Documents" when traveling if you are ever stopped by the police. That or you go to Jail. (Sound familiar - You use to not be able to travel around Moscow without travel papers either.)

Then you have basically eliminated the fundamental freedoms of life that our founding fathers invisioned and replaced it with a Socialistic / semi communistic form of government.

Bodybuild you say, what in THE FUCK does that have to do with the discussion at hand???

BODYBUILDING is the most INDIVIDUAL SPORT in the world (along with powerlifting, most track 'n field events, etc.) in that ONLY YOU determine your fate, and if you win or lose!!!

The Bill of Rights provided the 10th Amendment which left any powers not specified as federal, to the states.

However, the Supreme Court has interpreted many laws to fall under the realm of interstate commerce and as such the federal government has ballooned.

Where does the Constitution grant powers over education to the federal government? Where does it authorize social security? The list goes on of what the federal governemtn does not have rights to, yet they do. Anyone see the words "inheritance tax" in the constitution?

The founding fathers were not stupid or uneducated. They were the most intelligent, welathiest, educated men of the time. If we were beginning anew, would it be wise to consult Alan Greenspan on economic matters? Of course. Well that is akin to what happened then. There was much debate and uproar over the Constitution, not just some barroom arguments.

Why the 10th Amendment? Because the founders knew our country would grow. they knew people would move out west. The Louisiana Purchase (1803) provided the room to expand. They also knew population would grow. Remember, these were the "Greenspans" of the 1700's.

They knew it would be easier for a state to govern its people and establish program for that state only, than for the federal government to try to apply the same laws to a huge country.

The founders intended the federal governemnt to be mainly a foreign policy agent, and leave internal governing to the states. As we have strayed from this, (thanks FDR, predominately) things have progressed to what they are today.

Can they be restored? Theoretically, yes, if we eliminate most federal agenices as well as most federal taxes. Sound likely? Didn't think so.

Yes, the Constitutionalists are labeled as nuts, but that is because there is that 10% factor of bad apples.

Yes, it has long been known what the news media is and used for.

I contend that the ideas upon which the Nation was founded are within each of us. It is a feeling and a faith that no gov't can take away. I wonder how many people get that choked up feeling in the pit of their stomach when they hear the National Anthem.

I believe Maximus from the movie Gladiater epitomized that faith in a country. And when a ruler (illegitamate to be exact) had his family killed and ordered his execution, he still loved his country. He had a beef with the men who betrayed him, not the ideas of Rome and what he believed in.

If there were just 100 Americans like him we would have a very different country.

Most people focus on the tangible and the day to day because that is all they know.

I mean, when you're trying to make a few bucks there isn't time for much else.

I know you're making over 100K, and Wodin, so are you. I'm working part time because of school, but if I worked a 40 hour week, I would too. My point is that money is freedom, if you are not overly concerned with it. There is time for us to think because we don't really have to worry all that much about eating or paying the bills.

Most people don't have this time - it's a paycheck to paycheck existence chasing the dream.....why do you think lotteries are so popular?

So these people don't thin for themselves - the system in place prohibits it implicitly. Where are we going? Not sure. Chesty I think your Roman Empire example is related - another example of a "nation" getting too big for itself.

One solution would be to get everyone on the Internet. Information leads to informed decisions...yes there are entities that could use the Net to perpetuate the "lambs led to the slaughter", but still....access to info is beter than no access to info. It's a place to start.

Another one would be cameras in the courtrooms. What are judges afraid of? Let's start holding these civil servants to a standard and cut down on bullshit. Another place to start.

the thing that will be this countrys
ultimate down fall is patisan ship.people only think about the sake of their party even when shit is done wrong.dem's and repub's rarely condemn their own party.
personally i dont attach my self to any party i vote for who i think is qualified.i hate people who only vote dem or repub because thats their party.what kind of ignorance is that? people attach to their party like its a fucking baseball team.
i wish gore called fraud on bush,than we would have seen some true chaos break out.
maybe that would have been a wake up call.
and no matter how powerfull this country is the romans went down and we will go eventually too.

quote:

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Originally posted by tyler durden is jack:
and no matter how powerfull this country is the romans went down and we will go eventually too.

s00oouurrjjeerrkk

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BOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!

GREAT POINT

Since 1923 When Woodrow Wilson Sold us all into servitude to the central banking trust all polotics have revolved soley around monied interest. And those who pushed for central banking where spreading out the cash to the politicians long before the got their banking structure legitimized by congress.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -Thomas Jefferson

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson

FYI: THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK IS A PRIVATE INSTITUTION. THIS INSTITUTION WHICH IS 20% FEDERALY OWNED AND 80% PRIVATLEY OWNDED DICTATES OUR INTEREST RATES AND THEREFORE OUR ABILITIES TO LEND AND BORROW. LOOK IN YOUR GOV. BLUE PAGES IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME. NO LISTING!!! LOOK IN THE WHITE PAGES...VOILA. Simple proof, because by LAW only federal,state and county institutions can be listed in this section.

Today you have about a 1.0 difference in the entire country. Before this you would see rate variations of 4 - 5 % points based on how well or poorley a paticular area of the economy was doing. This is basically the system that fueled the rapid growth of the colonies.

Excellent info. Is it even feasible to ponder our government reverting to the older system?

I can understand some of the benefits of such a system - chiefly the independence from the Federal Reserve's influence.

As to helping out the everyday joe, some of your tax burden would be relieved since the Federal Debt is paid to the Federal Reserve Bank.

The Federal Government would have real options as to who it borrows from rather than just the Federal Reserve Bank.

The rates at which we borrow and lend to one and other would be based totally on supply and demand rather than on the constraints of the federal reserve bank and it's board of governors.

MOST of the federal debt is in the form of bonds owned by private institutions and individuals. A small portion is in foreign notes.

"As to helping out the everyday joe, some of your tax burden would be relieved since the Federal Debt is paid to the Federal Reserve Bank."

Wrong again. First of all debt cannot be a form of payment. You can pay a debt, but you cannot pay with debt, hence "Federal Debt is paid to..." is a flawed statement. Secondly, the payments on federal debt are to the bond holders who redeem their bonds or sell them in an open market. The Federal Reserve actually carries out these transactions, but they do not profit from them.

You also mention something about the Federal Reserve being a private organization. Wrong again bro. It is NOT a private organization. It is run like a private institution because it finances its own operations by using the interest on bonds that they own. They aren't even in the fiscal budget. The reason? Because the Federal Reserve wishes to remain free from influence from Congress' tight grip. Think about this for just second. If Greenspan didn't agree with Congress regarding some policy, then Congress could just reduce the amount of funding the Bank could get. It doesn't have to worry about this. However, it is entirely a government organization.

What makes me qualified to say this? I did an internship for the Federal Reserve in Richmond, Virginia while I was working on a Masters Degree in Economics from the University of Virginia.

As far as the Federal Reserve and it contributing to the downfall of the country? That is a bit extreme. I wish I had more time to write about this because I am a very big believer in our Federal Reserve System. But, to each his own most certainly.

give me a couple minutes and i'll think of something better.

el ass-o wipe-o for president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Puc

I agree with you that varioius lending institutions and the bond issuance, and their long term rates are set based on FRB projections. So If I control the basis upon which you charge interest for you bond in essence I control your market.

Since you've worked for the Fed I can understand your buying into the whole board of governors song and dance routine. The real issue is ownership and control. You know the FRB books have never, ever been audited by the GAO. Why not? You say they are a federal institution, and yet they do not subscribe to the very laws that all federal agencies are boudn to uphold.

To all (except Asswipe who I have no respect for, and don't believe will ever make a difference in his country or ours) I say...1)READ ANY AYN RAND BOOKS YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON, 2)LOOK INTO THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY, and 3)KRRP LEARNIN', KEEP CRITICIZING, AND STAY PROUD AND HONORABLE...

OK, I'm off my red, white, and blue soap-box for now...be back later!!