So now according to activists, racial profiling is to blame, but wait, the cop was black too, so I guess he's a racist?? I could only imagine what would happen if the cop was white, probably riots and shit. I feel sorry for this guy who died, its a tragedy, but to me its common sense, why point a fake gun at a cop??? how is he supposed to know that its fake???? I'm sure this will all go to trail. So it just goes to show you, don't be a dumb ass and point a fake gun at an armed police officer.

by the way, the guy who died was an actor, he was a lawyer in Liar Liar.

we are trained to identifyand then react
when we do special training cources to evaluate police action. every time we check out there evaluations we find that they:

1st) they refuse to try to work out any problems, they just stand there like idiot with there thumbs i there waistbands and go up on there tippy toes then back to there heals.(they are trained to do this to show dominace over you. intimidation)

2nd) any time there is a problem wether it be a weapon/ threatining individual involved they grab for that gun.(i think most people know when you pull a gone you better use it)
they have been taught to not develope any people skills or skills in calming or defuseing situations. just reach for that gun.which escoalates.(bad) tragicly

3rd)these guys cant shoot worth shit.about half had the latest special forces side arm
the H&K usp 9mm or sig saur p226.
we tested them at 28% accurate.
at 15feet 72% cannot hit a 10"by 10" target.
(isnt it scary they are supposed to be protecting us).
remember north hollywood? 2000-3500rds fired by police the other 4000rds fired by suspects those guys had body armor only. why the fuck didnt they just shoot them in the head? they had the fire power a 12 guage or colt a2 will definitly do the trick. they used that lame exuse they needed more fire power, but in there side arms they had hydra shok rounds that will shread that fucking body armor within a few shots.why didnt they do that, they couldnt shoot.

and people wonder why 60-70% police officers killed in the line of duty are shot with there own gun.

You ever been in a situation where a gun was pointed at you? Ever had someone hell bent on killing you? Ever done a car stop and had the hair on the back of your neck stand up and then have the suspect do something stupid?

1) I don't believe your statistics, if LEO'S were shooting average 28% at the range, then we would have very very few officers actually working. No state or city or county is going to certify someone who can only hit the target twenty eight times.

2) I have worked with a lot of cops and then some, including myself, and I can tell you from first hand that WE ARE NOT TRIGGER HAPPY PEOPLE! And yes we do try to talk things out.

In fact we something called a force continuum and it is based on the minimum amount of force necessary to effect the arrest. That doesn't mean we have to start at the lowest and go up we can go right to the top (deadly force) if the situation calls for it.

3) People in combat situations (shootouts) will without fail, shoot much worse than they will in practice. But the more they practice the better they will be in combat.

Why didn't the LAPD just shoot the guys in the head? Have you had someone wearing level three body armor, shooting a fully automatic AK-47 at you (which fires a .308 caliber bullet weighing about 170gns, traveling at 2500+ feet/sec? It will go through any body armor they are wearing (the cops that is) I can garauntee that not only will you not be able to hit the suspect in the head, you will not have much accuracy either.

Before dissing the cops why don't you try it out.

It sounds to me like you don't know as much as you think.

Canadian cops can't shoot back, go figure, hell most of em aren't even allowed to chase a criminal and arrest him. What up with that?

An a2 round will not I repeat will not penetrate level three body armor, second, they don't carry a2's on routine patrol, and the 12 gauge will not really phase someone with level three armor. Shock rounds, wtf? the only body armor you might shred would be level 2.

If you watch the video of the shoot outs, you will see that the lapd was only armed with Baretta 9mm. The 9mm is not very practical for gun fighting, yes it will kill you, but it doesn't have the knock down power of a .45acp or 10mm or .357 magnum.

It sounds to me like you are one full of shit monkey.
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dont fuckin preach to me about being under fire. been there still doing that,does
Somalia in 93' ring a bell.were you in mogadishu? were you a naval attache to the 1st Rangers? were you pined down by over 2000 fuckin crazy gun totin mogadishans taking 20mm AA from TEknicals?

Have you ever seen a brother you just ate with, get half his fuckin body smoked,
and watch as your bretheran try to extract
him and watch them get pined down in a barage
of ak-47s,hk-94s, 20mmrds,anti-tank rds, and then watch in horror as your brothers get shot in the fuckin streets because they run out of bullets?why

because we have to follow JSOC's orders:
identify your threat condition,
evaluate weather or not the target has hostile intent, aquire target,develop defensive perimiter, fire only when fired upon.

our assesments on shooting capability
came from the average officer that came to our shooting facility at the naval special warfare center in coronado. you may shoot better, but these were the numbers we got from 120 officers on there capabilities.

being a CQC instructor in coronado i have a pretty good grasp on dealing with a threat. cops on the other hand are spooked by any movement. somebody moves wrong, there reaching for there gun.this is not being aware of the power a gun has you can easyly send someone into a fight or flight situation when they feel you are threatining them. when you pull your weapon, you have escolated it to the highest point.the only alternative should be killing and thats what you are supposed to be trying to avoid.

this is why police are given billy clubs and
pepper spray.non leathal ways of controling a suspect. if he has a knife,a bat or is charging you you can pepper spray him or put the billy club to the head.but cops feel its easy to just pull there gun and go from there

all as i am say is that cops dont understand
what they are realy doing when they pull there gun.a majority of people would rather get beat or pepper sprayed than get shot.

we were taught that when you pull your weapon
you plan on killing.not using it as a problem solver.

where did this 308. 170grain, 2500+fps shit come from?

yes the AK-47 is a 7.62/39mm(308.)
but it fire's a 123gain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2200fps. at a 100yds its less than 2000fps.with energy about 1445(93-hp)

the bullet you are talking about is from a 308. winchester, not a full auto AK.

you are wrong in saying that a 223. A2 or 243.will not pen. IIIA body armor it will and
with a trauma plate to.

a horniday 55grain fsj(can buy these at wall mart) has a muzzle velosity of 4000fps. at 100yds it still at 3800fps with energy around
1300(91-hp)

i never said that cops are issued a2. but lapd squat team has them they where there
they were using them?

and hydra-shok rounds by federal are bullets that fragment into 5 thin jacketed darts when they hit there target. used by police all over the nation.

In fact I wore a level IIA vest with a hard and soft trauma plate that was rated to stop a 300win mag round (180gn sp) from 200 yards. I reload my own ammo and 55gn 223 cannot be loaded to 4000ft/s unless you want to blow up your gun.

Don't come on here telling us how cops are, there are a lot more on here than you might think.

Yes, we are taught that if we pull our gun AND PUT our finger on the trigger we intend to kill that person.

Pepper spray and billy clubs don't work in a knife fight.

From 6ft, if your gun is holstered and a knife is pulled on you, you will not have time to get your gun out and shoot, you will not get your pepper spray out, it is hand to hand baby.

if you are at 15ft, if your gun is unholstered you will have just enough time to shoot the suspect with two rounds (if you practice)

from 21 ft you will have just enough time if charged by a knife wielding nut to draw your weapon and shoot twice and get out of the way before he gets to you.

Pepper spray is not an alternative to deadly force when the suspect has elevated it to that level by pulling a knife on you. In fact pepper spray doesn't work a lot of the time on an individual pumped on adrenalin and drugs.

I don't care how many combat missions you were on what classes you have taught, till you experience law enforcement first hand don't talk about it. I burried to Deputies in two years one shot to death by a young punk who was in a stolen car, the other stabbed to death in a domestic violence situation. And you know what both times we could have "smoked" the individual, but we didn't because of our training.

What the hell are you talking about any way 93 hp? horse power is a measure of power output. Bullet energy is kinetic energy measured in ft-lbf not horse power.

All I said was it weighed about whether it weighs 120 or 200 it doesn't matter. I am quite sure that they have more than one weight bullet, and if those bank robbers had loaded there own ammo it could very well have been a heavier bullet, armor piercing and such.

Well so you were under fire, did you shoot back? or did you hide so you wouldn't catch lead?

Don't preach to me about how a cop reacts or what he is thinking. I don't care what classes you have taken, or taught. Being on the street as a cop is very different from combat in the military.

I will pull my gun whenever I suspect my life is in danger or someone elses period whether or not I use it is my choice and no one elses. But if I can and you pull a knife and and do not do what I tell you, you will be shot and killed, no if ands or butts. I ain't gonna pepper spray you sweet talk you ask you out to a dance you are getting shot end of story.

I think you need to re-evaluate your statistics on ammunition. Cause it is not quite correct.

ps
I don't think you really have a clue as to what a police officer or deputy thinks, acts or feels while on patrol. In short I will go home everynight after patrol and I will bury no more officers on my watch!

Also, as I said, I myself carry 15 Hydra-Shoks from federal in a pre-ban hi-cap mag nestled snugly within my G19 specifically for personal defense. Why in hell would the hydra shoks break into 5 darts if they are meant to avoid over-penetration? The hydra shoks have a thin jacket of copper over the lead to hold the bullet together until impact. The copper is scored so that it will be able to be shed upon impact and the soft lead will "mushroon" and stop within the body.

Things have been going to hell in a handbasket in my personal life, as evidenced by my ex-gf threatening to off herself late last night (that's another thread, though).
I just found out that I didn't get the Test Engineer position I had been working for here at my company. They changed the position from an entry-level to a mid-level position, so I was disqualified. I am so bummed.
Again: apologies, bro. I spaced and then saw your post to me about it.

------------------

take a look at the 2000 us ballistics table has it in plan veiw right between the 222. rem mag. and the .22.250 rem.

223.rem horniday 3940fps fmjbt 55grain, energy 1300 (91-hp)
243.win winch. 4025fps mon 55grain, energy 1579(94-hp)

i am sorry for not clarifying the number than the letters they are a measurement to calculate vest penitration. conducted by white laboratorys.
the 91 means the bullet penitration threat.
the levels used, conform to california
test #8470-obs-001
which are:level IIA (6-50),level II(50-90)
level IIIA(91-100)
beyond this, 28 plies of kelvar(acrylic coated reduces the blunt trauma) and 10x12x0.85 ceramic plates are needed.
the hp stands for "hollow point" bullet used.
not horse power.(bad red neck)

and your vest you had you said it had a trauma pad and an impact plate.and it
will stop a .300 win mag 180 grain?
that dont mean shit there are 19 diffrent 180grain combinations from boa tails to monolithic solids and fps from 2586 to 2467fps at 200yds and energy levels up to 2800.

they will all have diffrent effects on the
trauma plates some combo's would have punched threw the plate and the pad.

only three diffrent grain sizes are made for the AK- 47 123(most common) 125,150. the 150 is made by Black Hills AND is a rare find.
most are bought by the militia's.

and your telling me police can't take out a suspect with a knife without shooting him?
then why the fuck are they give you a billy or pepper spray?

if you cant aquire and fire in 15 feet you gotta have some sort of reflex problem.
i have seen plenty of guy pull and fire in
10 feet.

in somalia we were lookin right at the bad guys little kids, mothers, and thugs they had fuckin AK slung over there shoulder,and we couldn't do shit. all they would do is what until we turned our backs and they would try to wax us.

and yes i did return fire, and was hit in the leg. am i proud of it, hell no, i know for a fact we killed a hole bunch of kids that didnt need to die.but they were being used as human shields.could we have done anything about it.no? all i can do is say a prayer
for them.

weapon you are right, hydra's are for shallow
penitration but they are also used to shred kevlar.they mushroom in the body, but fragment into 5 seperate darts or wedges
when they hit body armor, cutting threw the kevlar layers.

peace

The level III vest that I wore specifically stated that it would stop 223 rounds.

My vest specifically stated on it what types of rounds would be stopped with and without the different threat plates. It even stated that it would stop ak-47 rounds with both soft and hard plate in place. My vest was the featherlight by pointblank.

I still rest my original concern about your classification of cops. Poon Daddy is right there are some that should not be cops, and yes we would rather not kill someone, but that will not stop me from using deadly force if I feel it is necessary.

Hey Poon, what is your average interview distance on a car stop, I always tried to keep it 6' as a rule, no matter what they did.

Sorry you had to whack some kids and that you got shot.

Never bring a stick to a knife fight.

check out these reloading statistics you must be the redneck.

http://www.reloadammo.com/223load.htm http://www.reloadammo.com/300load.htm

He is just pissed because he can't pass the written exam. He see himself as an expert and those in law enforcement have something against him for it.

Poot Monkey, get your facts straight before you come on this board and run your cyber mouth.