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Author Topic:   Here's one for YOU, chesty.
Warik

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 68
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 05, 2000 12:49 AM

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So you like the science questions, eh? Here's something for you.

Say we have a black hole. Due to the gravity near a black hole, any object "falling" into the black hole would take an infinite amount of time relative to an outside observer to fall through the event horizon.

So if I'm in my spaceship a safe distance away, and I toss some guy out of the airlock and he falls to the black hole, from my point of view, he would seem to STOP just before he reaches the event horizon. He would accelerate to near the speed of light and time would slow down for him. It would take an infinite period of time for me to see him fall through the event horizon.

Conversely, relative to him, he would fall instantly into the event horizon. He would be looking back at my spaceship and he'd see my spaceship leave the area instantly (after I got bored of watching him just sit there and not move and I left). He would watch planets orbit around the system, stars being born and dying, and spacecrafts flying by... all instantly. He would watch an infinite period of time go by during his fall into the event horizon.

Here's the question. How can that be??? It creates a paradox. If the guy falling into the black hole takes an infinite period of time relative to an outside observer to fall through the event horizon, and the guy falling into the event horizon witnesses an infinite period of time go by outside of the black hole, then how is it possible for him to actually fall into the hole? Won't the hole be gone after an infinite period of time has passed? Won't the universe be gone (assuming it will eventually stop expanding and then have its "Big Crunch") after an infinite period of time has passed? So then how is the victim going to fall into the black hole after an infinite period of time if the black hole (theoretically) shouldn't be there for an infinite period of time?

Have fun...

-Warik


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TxCollegeguy

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 602
From:
Registered: Jan 2000

posted October 05, 2000 01:04 AM

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well to make this philisophical...How do you really know those things would happen???What if you didn't do all those things you just said??What if you every part of your body just instantly broke apart until whats left is not seeable to those in the ship??? What if the image we see called a black hole is just what we see, a remarkable image and nothing else?


"The Unexamined life is not worth Living"-Socrates


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AGENT SHAGWELL

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 621
From:cryogenically frozen somewhere in FL
Registered: Aug 2000

posted October 05, 2000 10:02 AM

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I'm with good ol' TEX...I think you would spontaneously combust!


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Warik

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 68
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 05, 2000 10:31 AM

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In my experiences, you can't mix philosophy with science. In the universe, there are laws which, unlike the laws of Man, cannot be broken. These laws apply everywhere in the universe EXCEPT within the event horizon of a black hole (so far). Our victim is falling THROUGH the event horizon, but he is not actually inside; therefore, his body should behave according to the existing laws of physics.

He'll accelerate to near the speed of light, and to an outside observer, he'll seem to be stuck there - forever. For him, the entire course of the universe will flash before his eyes. He'll see the present, the future, and The End (should The End ever take place).

Problem is, that creates a paradox that I previously mentioned. There's gotta be a way to explain that.

-Warik


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JohnnyO

Moderator

Posts: 1092
From:Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted October 05, 2000 10:45 AM

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Like someone told me in a like question last week.. "the laws change close to a black hole".

My answer is lame isn't it.


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Warik

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 68
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 05, 2000 10:53 AM

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quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyO:
Like someone told me in a like question last week.. "the laws change close to a black hole".

My answer is lame isn't it.


Close? No... at least not to my understanding. To my understanding, the moment an object crosses the threshold known as the "event horizon" (aka the point where once you get in, you don't get out, period), THEN the laws of physics become irrelevant.

As far as I know, the area around a black hole is equivalent to that of a regular celestial body with a huge gravity field.

-Warik


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Warik

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 68
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 05, 2000 02:44 PM

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bump

Come on, chesty! =)

-Warik


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decibel

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 449
From:dallas, tx
Registered: Mar 2000

posted October 05, 2000 04:37 PM

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warik - i have deep respect for your postings, however, i disagree with your comment about science being separate from philosophy. science IS a form of philosophy, just as it is a form of religion. as far as the laws of the universe being immutable, the more we know about quantum physics, the more we see that that is not true. the laws of man and the laws of the universe ARE the same, for man exists within this universe, not outside it. if you are talking about newtonian-maxwellian physics, then i see what you are saying, however, that is a very limited view of how the universe functions. our consciousness is a part of this universe, we CANNOT separate ourselves from it, therefore the laws CAN be broken. the universe is self-aware, the universe IS consciousness.


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ANACONDA

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 134
From:yer nightmares
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 05, 2000 04:41 PM

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HMMM..... WOULD THIS CHANGE MY ABILITY TO
MEET SPECIMENS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX??

------------------
"BITE ME OR I'M GOING HOME!"


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chesty

Guru

Posts: 2989
From:Everett, WA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted October 05, 2000 04:49 PM

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Okay that is an easy one. But first, the astronaut that is falling in would not see time fly by in an instant. In fact to him his time would seem normal, however due to his speed the universe would form a small point directly behind him. As he reached the event horizon he would most likely already have been torn to pieces. If you look away from the astronaut for a second and looked back again, he would be gone.

Now the trick to this working is this (the answer) RELATIVITY, Spacetime is invariant (I believe that is the word, been 10 years since I studied gravity) with regards to different inertial frames. Believe it or not even you and I are in different inertial frames! You too shags.


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buckydingdong

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 229
From:Tennessee
Registered: May 2000

posted October 05, 2000 05:24 PM

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I have the answer: He'd fall so fast he'd ripped apart instantly, so he wouldn't be able to see anything anyways. YOu'd already be too close the blackhole and you'd be sucked in. you'd die too.


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chesty

Guru

Posts: 2989
From:Everett, WA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted October 05, 2000 05:28 PM

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don't work that way. As long as you have enough velocity for the altitude you are at you will not get "sucked" in which is a misnomer anyway you would get pulled in by the gravitational force. And as long as you are outside the Schwarzkopff radius (event horizon) you will be fine. However, cross that line and you are 100% fucked! Watch the disney movie Blackhole, a little corny but really cool effects and overall not bad.


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