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  Should the South have been allowed to secede from the Union?

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Author Topic:   Should the South have been allowed to secede from the Union?
Mr. T

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From:UNKNOWN
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posted October 03, 2000 01:24 PM

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Now this is not a post about slavery. It is a post about States rights. I dont believe in the injustices that were taking place in the South, but I do believe that States should have the right to secede from a government whos ideas do not ring true to their own. I believe that the decision to force a State to belong to the US, was the beginning of the downfall of State sovereignty. What rights do States really have anymore? Is there even a use for calling them States or should we just call our country America? If our country had to point to one moment that forever changed our Republic into a Democracy I believe this forcing of sovereign States to conform would be that moment-


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JohnnyO

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posted October 03, 2000 01:30 PM

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I agree it was the begining of a much more federalist government, today it seems the feds use funding as a way to get it's way.. like that horrible 55mph speed limit we had, and the 21 year old drinking age.


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special_bill

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From:NE alabama
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posted October 03, 2000 01:36 PM

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and the forbidding of same sex marriage...just thought i would stick up for ya...


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Frackal

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posted October 03, 2000 01:42 PM

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I don't think that would be a good idea.


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Weapon X

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posted October 03, 2000 01:42 PM

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The Confederacy had a right to secede.
It was brought back unlawfully by War.
States' rights have been eroding ever since.
The government now stries to say that it was all about slavery so that the South will seem EVIL to every one, and anyone who is pro-CSA will also therefore seem EVIL.
The U.S. is headed for another Civil War soon. There are so many secessionist movements active today.

1.)http://www.newsmax.com/commentarchive.shtml
2.) http://www.newsmax.com/commentarchive.shtml
3.) http://www.sfmoma.org/espace/rsub/project/disinfo/prop_globl_secede.html
4.) http://www.sfmoma.org/espace/rsub/project/disinfo/prop_globl_secede.html
5.) http://www.angelfire.com/nv/micronations/usa.html

Check out:

1.) http://members.tripod.com/cpt_peewee/index.html
2.) http://www.hawaii-nation.org/
3.) http://www.angelfire.com/vt/republicvt/
4.) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/1029/
5.) http://www.ptialaska.net/~dclark/indexold.html
6.) http://www.aztlan.org/index.html
7.) http://republic-of-texas.net/
8.) http://users.metro2000.net/~stabbott/NEconfederation.htm
9.) http://members.aol.com/GrayFox65/south.html
10.) http://www.southernparty.org/
11.) http://www.freemississippi.org/


[This message has been edited by Weapon X (edited October 03, 2000).]


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Frackal

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posted October 03, 2000 01:55 PM

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I doubt that Weaponx


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Weapon X

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posted October 03, 2000 01:58 PM

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You doubt what, bro???
Do some research, elaborate on what you disagree with, cite some sources, then let's talk.


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Frackal

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posted October 03, 2000 02:05 PM

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True Weapon, I haven't done any research so my point isn't all that valid, but haven't these types of groups been around forever? Do you really think we're heading for civil war? Just sounds like more 'armageddon' type talk to me. However, like you said, I've done no research.


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Weapon X

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posted October 03, 2000 02:10 PM

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Yeah, Frack, no flame was intended.
The fact is that under the Constitution, State's rights were much broader, and the "United States" was a nation depending upon the consent of each State which was a voluntary member of the Union. Any State was sovereign and could withdraw if it so chose.
Well, the South tried to do so. (Remember that Slavery was VERY big business in the North at the time, so they were NOT morally superior as is now so often claimed.)
The Secessionist groups are much more numerous, much more active, and much more organized now, I think.
Some of the links I provided above were about the legality and philosophy of the secessionists, so check em out.
Racial issues are going to feed this flame mroe than ever, as teh non-white population grows. Also, Mexicans are attempting to reclaim vast areas of America fo rthemselves. Check "Aztlan."


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JohnnyO

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posted October 03, 2000 02:29 PM

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We did conquer Mexico in the 1840's because of the inclusion of Texas into the States and the States took NM, AZ, CA, NV from Mexcio. I would think Mexico still has a pretty good claim on those lands.

We should have taken all of Mexico and moved the captial to Austin.


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Weapon X

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posted October 03, 2000 02:39 PM

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Using that rationale, JohnnyO, we should give the USA back to England, or back to the Native Ameicans, along with Canada, eh?


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runner

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From:houston, tx
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posted October 03, 2000 04:23 PM

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weapon x, i'm not sure what you mean by this:

>The fact is that under the Constitution, >State's rights were much broader, and the >"United States" was a nation depending upon >the consent of each State which was a >voluntary member of the Union. Any State was >sovereign and could withdraw if it so chose.

did you mean "under the articles of confederation?" or are you implying that somehow the current constitution denies states' rights? (i.e. soveriegnty was abridged by amendments 13-27) to my knowledge the constitution said nothing explicit about secession.


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Dirk Diggler

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From:32.8� N 97.0� W
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posted October 03, 2000 07:39 PM

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there is no such thing as state sovereignty anymore
i believe there is a vote this year in alaska to legalize marijuana (not just for medicinal use either)
if it passes
the feds are gonna shit big fat jaggedy edged bricks
and if the feds intervene
how do you think alaskans are gonna take that ?

one of these days the shit will hit the fan if the feds keep using all their bullshit strong arm tactics like withholding our confiscated earnings cuz our state doenst conform to their rules

i cant wait till texas secedes from this fading republic called the usa
i'll be first in line on election day for that vote


weapon
what state you in
do you get the federalist email journal
if not you should check it out
good stuff

"What luck for the rulers that men do not think."
-Adolf Hitler

at any rate what difference does it all make when most people dont give a damn, dont vote, dont stand for anything, dont mind working half the year just to pay taxes, all the while our federal govt keeps growing like some silent cancer


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TxCollegeguy

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posted October 03, 2000 07:54 PM

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This is why I think a vote for Harry Browne for President will help those of us who believe in returning power to the states while keeping us together....


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VISIGOTH

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From:Cocoa, FL,USA
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posted October 03, 2000 08:18 PM

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An interisting book to check out on this subject is "Civil War II" by Thomas Chittum. It discusses many of the points outlined in this thread, foremost of those being the cycle of land stealing in the American Southwest and the continuing desire of many Mexicans to reclaim the land they stole from the Indians in Texas, Arizona and California from the Anglos who in turn stole it from them.


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Dirk Diggler

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From:32.8� N 97.0� W
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posted October 03, 2000 08:24 PM

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its a good thing mexico doesnt own any more land than it does
it would just be a bigger third world country if it did

the mexicans should thank us and the indians should kill us

hehe


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WODIN

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From:I have been here since the beginning of time.
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posted October 03, 2000 08:29 PM

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These are the initial terms of surrendur of the Confederacy. X has a point. No mention of repatriation to the union.

Can anyone find anything else that might lead a final document that says the states were repatriated!

Complete exchange between Lee and Grant.
http://www.thehistorynet.com/CivilWarTimes/articles/2000/05003_text.htm


General: In accordance with the substance of my letter to you of the 8th inst., I propose to receive the surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia on the following terms, to wit: Rolls of all the officers and men to be made in duplicate, one copy to be given to an officer to be designated by me, the other to be retained by such officer or officers as you may designate. The officers to give their individual paroles not to take up arms against the Government of the United States until properly [exchanged], and each company or regimental commander to sign a like parole for the men of their commands. The arms, artillery, and public property to be parked, and stacked, and turned over to the officers appointed by me to receive them. This will not embrace the side-arms of the officers, nor their private horses or baggage. This done, each officer and man will be allowed to return to his home, not to be disturbed by the United States authorities so long as they observe their paroles, and the laws in force where they may reside.

Very respectfully,
U.S. Grant,
Lieutenant-General.

------------------
"Marge, I said Wooo Hoo!" Homer Simpson


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Weapon X

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posted October 03, 2000 10:06 PM

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Visigoth: You hang out at nasty sites!
Dirk: How do I gets signed up?


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Dirk Diggler

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From:32.8� N 97.0� W
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posted October 04, 2000 06:23 AM

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http://www.federalist.com/


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Weapon X

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posted October 04, 2000 11:18 AM

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Thanks, DD.


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