posted August 14, 2000 07:50 PM               

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Give me the wisdom to know what is right
And give me the courage to do what is right

posted August 14, 2000 08:06 PM               

How? They're saying a collision put them down. With who they haven't said. Wouldn't be surprised if they try to place the blame on one of our subs.

posted August 14, 2000 11:10 PM               

MSN has a write up.

I'm pulling for them anyway!!
I'm always down with under dog!!

posted August 15, 2000 08:09 AM               

Interfax news agency said conditions had sharply worsened during the night, with heavy winds and choppy seas in the area of the disabled nuclear-powered vessel.

Naval teams had hooked up a diving bell to provide oxygen and power to the crew who on Sunday were forced to turn off the reactor on the vessel, the Kursk, one of Russia's most modern submarines, and let it drift to the seabed.

Mini-submarines circled the crippled vessel 500 ft beneath the surface of the Barents Sea and were surveying its hull to determine the extent of the damage. They had managed to make contact with the trapped crew.

Officials on Monday gave conflicting signals over the chances of saving the crew or recovering the craft.

Navy commander, Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov, who heads the rescue operation, made clear he was not hopeful.

``The chances for a positive outcome are not very high,'' Tass quoted him as saying. Kuroyedov did not specify whether he meant the fate of the submarine or its crew.

But other officials sounded upbeat.

``The situation is serious, but according to the command of the Northern Fleet its rescue teams have enough resources to deal with the issue without turning to others for help,'' Tass quoted the fleet's command as saying.

U.S. And Britain Offer Help

Moscow has not said whether it will attempt to raise the Kursk or try to evacuate the crew. Both the United States and Britain have offered help which has not so far been accepted by Moscow.

The United States has two Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicles which can conduct rescue operations in depths of up to 610 meters (2,000 ft) and evacuate up to 24 crew members at a time.

Britain has put a deep search and rescue submarine on standby.

Reuters Photo


A large fleet of Russian surface vessels is anchored above the crippled submarine, with the aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, serving as a base for helicopters.

There were conflicting reports about the cause of the accident, with some officials suggesting the submarine may have been involved in a collision, but others saying a malfunction or blast on its bow had sent it to the bottom.

Collision Theory Unconfirmed

``Preliminary results of an external observation of the submarine using deep water apparatus...does not confirm the theory of a collision with an unidentified object,'' Tass said.

It said its source was an official at a defense firm taking part in efforts to rescue the stricken submarine.

``He (the source) did not exclude the possibility that the damage to the nose section of the sub was caused by an explosion in that section,'' Tass said, adding that its source had not said what could have caused such a blast.

But the agency also noted it had earlier quoted an official with Russia's Northern Fleet as saying a collision perhaps with a foreign submarine was considered the ``key version.''

There were also varying reports about the condition of the crew, with some suggesting there may have been injuries or deaths when the submarine went down.

The Kursk, one of eight giant Oscar-2 class submarines in the Russian fleet, was commissioned only five years ago and represents the height of Russia's nuclear submarine technology.

Russia has said the crippled submarine poses no threat to the environment. It was carrying no nuclear weapons and the reactor that powers its engines has been shut down. Norwegian officials said there was no sign of a radiation leak.

The vessel went down during training exercises on Sunday, about 85 miles (137 km) from its base in the port of Severomorsk.

posted August 15, 2000 12:14 PM               

peace romeo

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"pain is something the average person avoids"
"pain is something we elite seek out and thrive on"

posted August 15, 2000 04:50 PM               

The US military has a zero-fatality in training rule - yes, soldiers and others do die, but precautions are in place toprevent this, and if it does happen, many officers' jobs are lost.

Other Russian military tricks include airborne operations from extremely low altitude without a parachute. The Soviet Army actually tried to drop these guys into snow. It was a bloodbath.

When a US servicemember dies in training, his family gets $200,000 from the Servicemen's Group Life Insurance. While you cannot put a dollar value on the life of a loved one, at least there are immediate financial problems for those left behind.

The average Russian enlisted soldier is cuurently pai4 POUNDS OF SAUSAGES per month. I am not making this up.

So naturally, they are prone to take some risks with their troops. I doubt there was really a collision.

Matt

posted August 15, 2000 05:19 PM               

It was supposedly an explosion in the torpedo tube that caused the problem..

posted August 16, 2000 06:39 AM               

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Expect the unexpected.

posted August 16, 2000 04:32 PM               

This is sad.

posted August 16, 2000 04:43 PM               

Wednesday, August 16, 2000

By Patrick Lannin

MURMANSK, Russia (Reuters) - Russia at last called for help Wednesday in its desperate bid to save 118 submariners trapped on the seabed, but there were fears it would come too late for a crew no longer showing signs of life.

The crew of the Kursk, which sank at the weekend, have stopped pounding SOS signals on the hull -- for days their only link to the outside world -- but officials said there was still hope they were alive.

The navy's deputy chief of staff Vladislav Ilyin told RTR television that President Vladimir Putin had given the order "to accept help wherever it comes from" after speaking by telephone with President Clinton.

Russia formally requested help from Britain and Norway. Britain airlifted a rescue sub to the Norwegian port of Trondheim to be sent on to the crash site, and Norway dispatched a shipful of divers to help with the rescue effort.

It was expected to take two more days for the Norwegian divers to reach the scene, and nearly three for the British craft.

In Washington, a White House official said Clinton had reiterated offers of U.S. help.

Frantic Russian attempts to dock rescue capsules to the escape hatch of the Kursk failed throughout the night.

A spokesman at the Northern Fleet's main base in Severomorsk told Reuters a fourth attempt had failed Wednesday. He was unsure whether a fifth had already been launched, but said there would be no letup in rescue efforts.

Officials had said the crew, whose number was earlier put by a naval spokesman at 116, would run out of air by Friday. But Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov suggested Wednesday that oxygen might last until next week.

Interfax quoted Deputy Prime Minister Ilya Klebanov, leading an emergency commission on the disaster, as saying the sailors had stopped banging on the hull, but might not yet be dead.

"There is no sign of life, but from this it is not necessary to conclude something terrible," he said, adding that the crew might be resting to conserve energy as air ran out.

Official statements indicated the last tapping on the hull of the submarine was heard Tuesday. By 8:30 p.m. Wednesday, the crew had still made no more contact, RIA news agency quoted a navy spokesman as saying.

PUTIN DEFENDS EFFORTS

Putin, on vacation in a Black Sea resort since the crisis began, defended the rescue effort in his first public statement.

"From the moment it became clear that something had happened, all necessary and possible efforts to save the craft and its crew have been carried out," he said, appearing on television in shirtsleeves and surrounded by officials.

"Unfortunately the weather is very bad. A storm has raged for two days, and sailors could not use all the means at their disposal," he said. He described the situation as "critical."

But the last-minute decision to accept foreign help -- which has been on offer at least since Monday -- could open authorities to criticism that national pride or an obsession with secrecy had prevented them from calling for help sooner.

"Up until now, talks with NATO have been such that it was absolutely obvious that our naval brass was doing everything possible to make sure no foreigners arrived," defense analyst Pavel Felgengauer told Ekho Moskvy radio, adding that he thought admirals feared that foreigners would spy on the submarine.

The daily newspaper Sevodnya quoted a navy source as saying: "Admirals for some reason think that if even one Russian sailor is saved from a Russian submarine with outside help, it will certainly end in a political catastrophe."

HEARTS AND MINDS WITH THOSE AT SEA

At the Kursk's base in the closed naval port city of Severomorsk, residents said their hearts and minds were with the sailors struggling at sea.

"Of course we are all very worried. It is all bad. Everything that is happening is bad," said Valentina Yefimova.

The captain of the red and white hospital ship Svir, which was docked at the port, told Reuters his vessel was ready to set sail to receive wounded survivors.

"We have not received the order, but our ship is ready to go to sea," Captain Mitroshkin said.

Navy chief Kuroyedov has given pessimistic assessments of the rescue's chances since Monday. But he said he was "far more confident" about Wednesday's attempts.

The crew might have stopped tapping because sailors knew rescuers were on the way and wanted to save oxygen, he said.

"One needs to take into account the mentality of submarine officers. Once they knew rescue capsules were above them, they maintained silence," he said.

"The capsules will work until the result is achieved."

The Russian rescue capsules, operated by a 3-4 man crew, can evacuate up to 15-20 men at a time. But they have failed to dock with the submarine, which is tilted 60 degrees on the sea bed, some 355 feet down, with strong currents and low visibility.

The British LR5 minisub now on its way has never been used in a real rescue, but was designed for just such a mission. Its three-man crew can evacuate up to 16 people at a time.

It would link to the rescue hatch with a pressure-resistant shell called a "transfer skirt." Although such an operation has never been undertaken with a Russian vessel, the British Ministry of Defense said it believed the technology would be compatible.

The British rescue team also has a Scorpio remote controlled vehicle which can look around and clear obstructions. Support staff include a spare crew, rescue coordinators, divers and medics.

Kuroyedov has said that if attempts to evacuate the crew using capsules fail, two 400-ton inflatable pontoons might be used to lift the whole vessel.

Tass quoted the Northern Fleet press office as saying pontoons could not lift the huge sub to the surface, but could raise it to a depth where scuba divers could operate.

Officials have said they do not know the cause of the accident, which damaged the bow of the submarine. Kuroyedov has said a missile hatch on the front starboard side is wide open and debris is scattered on the sea floor on the port side.

posted August 17, 2000 06:04 PM               

let us all pray for the seamen down there...

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"Pain, is just weakness leaving your body"

"...damn you for not giving my TEST" - Metallica

"After this show i'll be fat and happy again.....If i make it to the show...." - Lee Priest

"Lets put some weight on the bar.." - Shawn Ray

"IT DOESN'T MATTER" - The Rock