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 Some reasons why I hate the Mormon Church
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| Author | Topic: Some reasons why I hate the Mormon Church |
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FakingIt Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 8) |
posted August 02, 2000 09:35 AM
 
This is not an outsiders opinion. I am a member of the church, but planning on quitting. I grew up towing the line - did all the tings I was supposed to do : went on a mission wearing the little name tag, got married in a Mormon Temple (for the Mormon Purists who might read Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), etc. 1) It weakens women. Like nowhere else on earth the church sends tons of overt and covert propaganda that tells women their only function is to serve men and be mommies. I know many women outside the church who balance career and mother hood (bikinimom?). I know of women who are medical doctors, have a business they also own and run and have several children. But MOST Mormon women I know (especially if they are "devout") believe being a mommy is the only thing worth being for a woman. The problem ? You have women, like my wife, who could not financially survive on their own now that they have children. You also have women who for whatever reason do not have children and feel like a total failure - very common situation in the Mormon church. 2) The concept of a "prophet". The Mormon CHurch believes that Gordon B. Hinckley is currently the prophet - someone who gets direct messages from God. The church teaches that we have had prophets since the church began in the 1800's. Since the "prophet" knows God better than any of us average people we are to be obedient to his direction and follow him at all costs. This authority extendfs down to any church leaders who govern over members : bishops, stake presidents and elders quorum presidents. having served in Bishoprics and Elders quorum presidencies myself I know that we often were directed to essentially tell people what to do in the most intimate areas of their lives : their marraige, their sex lives, whether to buy or sell houses, whether to take certain jobs or not, etc. I know of people who I got married because a church leader actually commanded them to marry a certain person. This is fairly uncommon and rarely happens - although I do know of several people that this has happened to. The problem? People are not free to live their own lives and follow their hearts. Lots of very unhappy Mormons faking it in life, but pretending to be very happy so as to "set a good example for the rest of the world". Lots of quiet frustration and desperation in the Mormon church. 3) A marriage program that does not work. The temple marraiges (covenant for time and eternity) does not work very well. The divorce rate is as high as the 'outside" world. And the other 50% roughly that stay married are often unhappy. There are many like myself who married a good woman they were not attacted to because of church pressure ("you go on a mission, get married and get an education in that order" - the deceased prophet SPencer W. Kimball). There are many gay men (not my problem) who got pressured into a marraige because the church has zero tolerance for gays and believes if they just "repent" they will be able to have a successful marriage - many of these involve men who secretly have dirty sex in bathrooms with anonymous partners anyway despite being married. The women suffer as much if not more - but many cannot do anything about it because - refer to problem #1. 3) Won't admit its mistakes - recently the Pope apologized for the crimes it committed in WWII by not trying to do more to stop the crimes against Jews. I have to admire admitting a mistake. But the Mormon Church contends that it is the "only true church on the face of the earth and is devinely directed" - and therefore does not make such errors. I could go on but I am just venting any way. I just want my kids to grow up knowing that no old geezer in Salt Lake City knows better for them thean they know for themselves. They can marry who they want, take whatever job they want etc. The only reason the Mormon church is not crazier is that luckily many of the people in the church do not take it very seriously - unlike myself who was a die hard Mormon (what is called a Peter Priesthood in the church) until a few years ago. But now being in my mid to late 30's it seems too late to straighten my life out. I hate the Mormon church. [This message has been edited by FakingIt (edited August 02, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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Thick dog Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1451) |
posted August 02, 2000 09:39 AM
Aren't Mormons allowed to have like 6 wives? IP: Logged |
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Gilbyag Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 449) |
posted August 02, 2000 09:41 AM
hey man, sorry to hear all that. One of my best buds is a morman, he used to be catholic but changed because he wanted to marry his wife. Well, your right, 3 kids later, no signs of stopping, she dosnt work, makes EVERYTHING, cloaths, covers for the couch, whatever, couldnt make a living if her life depended on it. Worst thing, they hate each other. I hate being over there, all they do is argue and fight. sux to be them. But yet, they stay together... go figure. IP: Logged |
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Kingpin Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 121) |
posted August 02, 2000 09:42 AM
Deep post for #1 Fakingit... Bump for 6 wives though! WTG TD IP: Logged |
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bikinimom Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 391) |
posted August 02, 2000 09:44 AM
Thank you for the enlightenment. I have no advice for you as I have no experience on such a matter, but I do empathize. Perhaps your words will help others. Perhaps you can find a way to break the ties that bind you, don't give up. When you stop growing and changing, you die (on the inside, anyway). For your sake, your wife's sake, and your children's sake DON'T DIE. Perhaps through your struggle you can teach them one of life's greatest lessons - how to overcome great adversity. IP: Logged |
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Future One Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 126) |
posted August 02, 2000 09:52 AM
Dude, the guy who founded the Mormon church (Joseph Smith) was an idiot. You know what he wanted?? he wanted to get laid, and to screw all the girls he could. So he came up with this story about how got chose him, and gave him a tablet with 430something commandments (as if 10 weren't enough) and he was to go forth and multiply as much as possible because there were souls trapped in heaven, and they needed a body. So what happened?? he got a bunch of women to believe his story, and got them all pregnant. He got arresed obviously, So when the parents found out he was in jail, they went there in a mob and just beat the turd out of the guy, and killed him, so then boom! suddenly he's a martyr to the cause! and now all mormom women are treated as baby factories and nothing more. Stay away from them. I know a lot about religions, so It's funny when they try to talk to me and I just burn the hell outof them. It's funny also how most of them are skinny punks, and I'm like twice the size, so they never argue too much with me and just leave, it's hillarious, but I kind of feel sorry for them because they don't know what they're doing... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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havoc Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 626) |
posted August 02, 2000 09:53 AM
Since I am getting my Masters in Divinity with concentration on Theological Philosophies of World Religions here are a few of my thoughts: Without Judaism, religions like Islam, Christianity, Zionism, Moromonism, Rastafarianism and a host of others wouldnt even exist, Mormons tend to take a literal approach to the Bible and then reinterpreted certain aspects they didnt agree with over time. The bible especially the first five books(Torah, Pentateauch) which are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are a liturgy(meaning not to be taken literally) for the people of that time, the Jewish people, a simple example is this: Noah and the Ark, this never took place, its impossible to flood the earth, it would of taken more than 40 days, the point and reason for this story is that Noah, the righteous man prevailed and lives while the wicked died and perished, the moral being that that the good and faithful will enter the Kingdom and the opposite will not. Most of the bible is apocalyptic literature with Jewish and Hebrew traditions and culture deeply involved, most of the bible should not be taken literally especially the first 5 books, mormons and mormonism in my opinion are incorrect in most of their beliefs, knowing God for me is knowing the Truth, one should know the Truth about his or her religion and not the interpretations and redactions your specific religion has gone through over time, seek the theological and factual truth. Nothing is better than the 12 Jewels- Knowledge, Wisdom, Understanding, Freedom, Justice, Equality, Food, Clothing, Shelter, Love, Peace and Happiness. IP: Logged |
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Future One Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 126) |
posted August 02, 2000 09:59 AM
Where are you getting that the Bible is not to taken literally??? I think the Bible is to be taken VERY LITERALLY!!! and yes the flood did happen! how do you think the ice age started?? ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Dlady27 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1251) |
posted August 02, 2000 10:00 AM
DING DING! AND ROUND ONE HAS BEGUN! IP: Logged |
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havoc Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 626) |
posted August 02, 2000 10:10 AM
Future One I hope you are not serious, the flood story shouldnt make or break your faith , it has nothing to do with faith, hundreds of years before the Noah and the Ark story came about there was another story called the "Epic of Gilgamesh", do a search on it if you would like to, the Epic of Gilgamesh is basically the same story of Noah but written hundreds of years before it, there was no flood it was a story that the good will prevail and the evil would not, I understand you were probably brought up to believe this with pictures and drawings of Noah and all the animals but it isnt true, If you seek the truth and as you know Jesus is the truth then you need to do some studying my friend, take a theological approach if you will, like I said if you disagree I understand, religion is very personal and you couldnt change many peoples minds if you had the facts right in front of their face, I will tell you this, the most insulting form of Christians are the Southern Baptists, those folks are a plethera of Fuck Ups. IP: Logged |
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JohnnyO Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 169) |
posted August 02, 2000 10:32 AM
Havoc you are one smart dude... where are you going to school at? My minor was theology at St. Thomas for a very short time, but that wasn't for me. I never got into got into anything as deep as you are. Actually I hear there is recent research that the flood stories are related to a massive flood of the Black Sea toward the end of the last ice age. IP: Logged |
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Dlady27 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1251) |
posted August 02, 2000 10:35 AM
WOW, HAVOC YOU DO HAVE SOME BRAIN CELLS LEFT , NEVER THOUGHT YOU WERE SO SMART! IP: Logged |
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The Whole F/N Show Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 416) |
posted August 02, 2000 10:39 AM
TD, Six wives? That mean 12 titties! What's wrong with that? [This message has been edited by The Whole F/N Show (edited August 02, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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Thick dog Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1451) |
posted August 02, 2000 10:42 AM
HAHA Show, as long you remember how many fingers fit into each one, you'll be as sound as a pound. lol IP: Logged |
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havoc Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 626) |
posted August 02, 2000 10:55 AM
Actually D Lady , marijuana has no effect on your brain cells , that was based on a study done on monkeys a quarter century ago and was backed by no scientific evidence, but then the Old Govt took that bullshit and exploited it to their advantage and making people actually believe that shit. Its sad we need to learn to think for ourselves, I am not your stereotypical weed head either although I do have hair down to my bellybutton. Starting at Rice in January for my masters Johnny O. One of my minors was Religion with concentration on philosophies of world religions. [This message has been edited by havoc (edited August 02, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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TxCollegeguy Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 421) |
posted August 02, 2000 11:09 AM
I'm Sorry you are having a hard time with your church, but I am not really that surprised....The town in North Houston where I am from has a Large growing mormon population which recently built a temple that is about to open...I went to school with a good number of mormons all of those friends tried numerous times to get me to go to their church...I once thought why not and I asked 11 of these people about their basic church beliefs and principles, and got almost 11 different answers. Many of those same people had struggles in school, when put in situations where their beliefs conflicted with something they wanted to do. I do not believe personally that the mormom church is anything more then a cult, but if being a memeber of that church gives a person piece of mind then good for them. I'm glad your going to give your kids a chance to discover for themselves what their religous beliefs will be... IP: Logged |
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Future One Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 126) |
posted August 02, 2000 11:52 AM
I am familiar with the flood stories. Yes I know a lot of cultures have very similar stories to Noah's ark. The flood was a world wide event, and that's why there's record of it in all the cultures. Remember also that it was the dawn of civilization, and all the people were in the same place. Everyone died except for Noah, his wife, his 3 sons and their wives, and the animals that survived. After everything happened, one of Noah's sons rebelled against him, and took his own path. Any descendants of this person would obviously be tought about the real incident, but the story would slightly change in favor of whatever god his descendants happenen to believe in. This is how the polar ice caps were formed, and this is also the reason for most of the worldwide fossil fuels, which surprisingly are more concentrated in the Arab states, where most of civilization was at the time... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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davidg Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 181) |
posted August 02, 2000 11:55 AM
I could really dig a harem. But I am not a whore!!! Look at it this way, the plural for mouse is mice. The plural for spouse is spice. IP: Logged |
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Latimer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 581) |
posted August 02, 2000 11:56 AM
cool saying IP: Logged |
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Future One Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 126) |
posted August 02, 2000 12:02 PM
Southern baptists? well, I think the Baptist doctrine is for the most part correct, but where they screw up is that they teach you that once you're saved, you're saved, and you can do whatever you want and you will not lose your soul. Some of them ignore this teaching, and still try to be good people, but sadly, most of them don't... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Future One Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 126) |
posted August 02, 2000 12:07 PM
Oh, one more thing: The incidents in the book of Genesis were estimated to have happened 6000 years ago, but the exact date isn't known. I know it is known that Moses wrote the first 5 Bible books, and all of them deal with very real events (mostly the history of the Jewish people) so why would this information not be taken literally? ------------------ IP: Logged |
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havoc Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 626) |
posted August 02, 2000 12:18 PM
Future One, you have your beliefs , I have mine except mine and yours maybe as well come from hundreds of books that I have read and hundreds of lectures I have attended, no disrespect intended but I believe you are just a product of typical Christians today, there is nothing wrong with that, I am not saying it is wrong to take the bible literally, there is no harm in it, as I mentioned the first 5 books of the bible was a seperate cannon at one time, for Jews it is called the Torah, for others the pentateuch(penta=5) , this was a collection of stories and parables meant to teach lessons to people of that time, over time it has gone through 4 major redactions(editing) and interpretations, these 4 are knowns as Elohists, Yahwists, Priestly and Deuteronomical. Each had their own interpretation on the pentateuch as well as other parts of the Bible. Explanation to your questions would take me too long to type and it probably wouldnt make a difference anyway, so with that this conversation is over unless you have something to add or ask. Peace. IP: Logged |
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cAbo Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 28) |
posted August 02, 2000 12:53 PM
maybe this topic will finish soon because it seems religious post aint well accepted, but here r my 2 cents, the bible aint a book like others, is a book full, or based almost all, of simbols and that simbols aint like poems that all readers understand like they want. the Christians have priest that comunicate and teach us the right signification of the words. Its a religious/faith book not an historical book. IP: Logged |
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mac sloan Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 164) |
posted August 02, 2000 01:05 PM
Cabo you have Christians mixed up with Catholics.Protasents do not have priests. Catholics do and they are not Christian,but that is another debate. IP: Logged |
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Rexie317 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 537) |
posted August 02, 2000 01:27 PM
I'm the religion where the Bible says to do stuff that sounds good, but just doesn't seem to work in life. -Homer Simpson I know we ain't supposed to talk about religion or God or anything on this board cause its so touchy so I'll end my post with this... I'd rather live my life believing in God and die to find out there isn't one, then to live my life not believing in God and die to find out there is one. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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moe dank Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 1365) |
posted August 02, 2000 01:43 PM
YOU HAVE TO LOVE THE CULTS OF AMERICA IP: Logged |
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easton Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 200) |
posted August 02, 2000 02:25 PM
fakingit...living in salt lake city, and being non mormon it is funny to observe these people...it is most definately a cult, i mean the way it started is no different than some of these cults start today...sometimes i watch 'general conference' since the weekend it is on, all day long it is broadcast live by the local NBC affiliate, which is owned by the church...it is bizarre, they have a new conference center that seats more people than the super bowl, and they pack this place, camping in the streets the night before like it were a rock concert...then you look at the setup, they have the high members of the church seated in these thrones high above the people, like a government, there are about 100 of them, all seated by their rank, with gordon b in this alter looking throne, looking down apon his drones...they even bought a city block without having to ask permission so they could complete their building plans, there was no vote or permission, just instant approval by the city, and it totally fucked up traffic downtown, since it was main street for crying out loud..what pisses me off is the new conference center was built on what used to be 'the deseret gym' which was owned by the church yes, but was used by all, one of the best rec centers around, they tore it down just for paking for this place...and as far as the local nbc affiliate being owned by the church, so are both of the major newspapers in town and most of the radio stations, all of the editors for these are higher ups in the church so they basically have control over whats said in the media here...and as a saturday night live fan, they piss me off, since they have taken over the nbc station, they took it off the air, its funny cuz once in a while if youre watching a movie or something, they go to put on a commercial for SNL, and you see the first second of the commercial, then just black for about 10 seconds until the commercial is over, i just picture some geeky mormon guy at the station seeing that start up and go 'oh shit, the snl commercial' and running over to the 'holier than though edit button'...in utah county you cant buy beer at all on sunday, and they just passed a law that makes it illegal to sell a car on sunday...most of my friends grew up in mormon households and were basically forced into it, forced to go on a mission etc...i had one friend who went abroad for his mission, and shortly after he admitted having sex with his gf once, well they shipped him back and now hes still a saint, but the whol;e town thinks shes a little whore...anyway i can go on and on, but this post is getting very long IP: Logged |
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The Whole F/N Show Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 416) |
posted August 02, 2000 02:31 PM
My favorite Homer Simpson religious quote, "Please rescue me Jebus!" oh and one more... IP: Logged |
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MattTheSkywalker Moderator (Total posts: 1263) |
posted August 02, 2000 02:41 PM
Havoc, Drop me an email if you have a chance. FutureOne, Interesting beliefs. But the Ice Age was a lot more than 6000 years ago. Regarding mormons, from what I understand, the churhch teaches that a woman's place in heaven becomes higher as she has more children. This may be why women are baby makers in the Mormon church, and not much else. There is a difference between faith and religion: Faith is the belief in God, religion is other men telling you how to have faith.
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special_bill Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 288) |
posted August 02, 2000 02:42 PM
i love it when havoc chimes in on all things religious....always enlightening....yep, hasatan is hebrew for adversary...messiah just means annointed one...and the greeks confused the word virgin and young girl...tell us more my friend...my mom is a jewish convert and eats this stuff up... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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bouncer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 288) |
posted August 02, 2000 04:00 PM
Here's something that some military members might identify with. I've seen religion at work in South Lebanon, Bosnia and Croatia. I've seen Gods work in Somalia, as well as those above. I'm due a trip to either Kosovo or East Timor in the coming year, and guess what ?. I really don't believe in anyone's religion, or the bible for that matter. I wish I did, I see the comfort some of my friends get from it, both civie and soldier alike. Do I believe in god ?. I really don't know about that one either. I do believe that I'm a good person, I don't need religion to remind me to lead a good, clean and honest life. I'm married with two children who I'm rearing in the Catholic church, mainly because my wifes catholic and I'm living in a catholic country (Ireland). Which reminds me, I've lived with a religious conflict in my own country all my life, I guess I did'nt have to travel oversea's to see how fucked up people get over it, and how they justify their actions with their particular churches 'slant' on the bible. Having said all that, I have'nt totally closed my mind to god, if I can put it into words here, I often feel as though I waiting for 'something' or someone who'll help me understand my own little religious conflict !. I hope I've put that accross ok ?. There you go guys, just my 2 cents worth. I hope I have'nt offended anyone here, if I did, I did'nt mean to, sorry. Now I'll go read so lighter post !!. later guys...
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powerlifterjay Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 28) |
posted August 02, 2000 07:17 PM
i usually do not reply to threads like this, but since i was baptised mormon at 8 and past the sacriment till i was 15, i can tell you my thoughts. I wouldnt call it exactly a cult, but i would definitly call it different. Meaning you cannot just go to church and then go home and wait till next sunday. If you are a mormon then you become the lifestyle 24 hrs a day. My entire family on my moms side and half on my dads is mormon, the rest are adventist. Even worse! but they all have callings that keep them busy as hell. You know what i mean Fakinit. You have made a big decision. I have cousins that are on missions now, they feel like there is some big reward waiting. Since you have been on a mission you gave alot more then i ever have, i havent stepped foot in the church since i was 16. I am 25 now married with 2 kids and we may go to church once every month or so but we go Methodist. Only because i can hear a serman when i need it. But then i can go home and not be bothered. And i do not have to give them 10% of my income either. I will not go as far as you have in my statement of the church, because i agree with you 110%, and from one ex mormon to another, i feel what your going through. Trust me though, there is a life outside that church! My opinion is there is no TRUE church, but if there was ONE. It would not be that ONE. Take it easy bro! IP: Logged |
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Checkmatebloated Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 766) |
posted August 02, 2000 07:38 PM
Hey all I got to say is one blood bro killed his brother in the very first of the bible. Murder of jealousy. Now how is that to start a faith. Tell me about the MORMON's 7 levels of heaven? IP: Logged |
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Big Brother Val Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 745) |
posted August 02, 2000 07:42 PM
I've been in Utah my whole life. I was babtized with the mormon church and all that. Then after my parents temple marriage fell apart... the people in the town of Richmond, Ut. where we lived called my mama a whore, and said she was out to steal their husbands. So I learned to hate the people really bad. I know the people aren't the church... but I just think it sucks. For the average person, it gives direction, hope, and something to look forward to after death. So it's not a bad thing. But for some who are really extreme in the religion, and they boast about their faith and shit, and it's stupid. I don't hate the church. I'm glad I'm not a part of it. But I'd never try to tell someone that they shouldn't go. Because it's a very positive thing in a lot of people's lives. Most mormon gals don't go out smokin' and drinkin'... where most of the gals I know who don't go to church, do that very thing. So go figure. IP: Logged |
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5setsofsix Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 131) |
posted August 02, 2000 07:53 PM
FakingIt - I'll let the others fight over religion all I want to tell you is that NO WAY is it too late for you to make a change or as I think you called it "straight out your life". You sound like an educated sensible guy with a lot going for you. Don't give up because you disagree with what happened in your past. Its over anyway. IP: Logged |
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JohnnyO Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 169) |
posted August 02, 2000 08:32 PM
Hey MattTheSkywalker... check this out. http://www.geocities.com:0080/TimesSquare/7571/PressClip.html IP: Logged |
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JohnnyO Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 169) |
posted August 02, 2000 08:35 PM
Found another too... interesting stuff http://www.ngnews.com/news/1999/02/021999/noahsflood.asp IP: Logged |
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slabcat Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 481) |
posted August 02, 2000 08:45 PM
I live in Utah and am not a member of the Mormon church. It's not my place to decide whether their church is true. I've lived in three other states and the mormon church is no different than other religions, there's good and bad points to being around them. There are a lot of mormons who do look down their nose at you the second they find out you're not one of them. But there are also just as many who accept what you believe. The holier than thou attitude does get old but I think as a whole the mormon church is a beneficial institution. The cases mentioned in the original post are true of staunch,conservative,die hard mormons, but every day members are the same as anyone else...well almost. One thing that's a bitch is trying to date a mormon girl. It's hard to get serious with a normal one if your not a member of the church. They'll be your best friend but they won't fuck you regardless of how they feel toward you. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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BACKDRAFT Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 323) |
posted August 02, 2000 08:46 PM
Im relly impressed with this post,every one gave there thoughts and it did'nt get ugly.Keep it up Bro's and Bro'ets. IP: Logged |
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Future One Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 126) |
posted August 02, 2000 09:25 PM
Havoc, I deal with people like you on occasion, trust me, I'm not a religious zealot, if that's what you think, but I have studied the Bible extensively, as well as many other books, and have tried to understand why the world is the way it is. I got no problem, I don't like to push my beliefs on others, but it's nice when they listen to me. Rexie, I agree with you, I rather believe in God and then find out there is none (which is almost an impossibly) than NOT to believe in God, and then find out there IS one! Whole F/N Show, yeah, that was frikkin' funny!! Oh help me jebus!!!! HAH HAH HAH!! actually this is the first time ever when a conversation about religion didn't turn into a war with frikkin' laser beams a uzi fire shot at each other... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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NoviceJuicer Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 362) |
posted August 02, 2000 10:42 PM
Very interesting posts. It is true the old testament word for young woman (Almah) in the book of Isaiah is misinterpreted today by Christians as meaning virgin. Alters prophecy quite a bit. [This message has been edited by NoviceJuicer (edited August 02, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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FakingIt Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 8) |
posted August 02, 2000 11:05 PM
The hardest part is, once I make the break I am sure the marriage will disintegrate. no big deal with the marraige - I like my wife (although I would have never gotten married if I had not been commanded by my stake president) and would like to see her happy. But it would damn near kill me to get seperated from the kids. I have never been romantically in love. I have liked girls but they did not like me for some reason, and vice versa girls always seemed to like me that I was not attracted to. Romance was a mismatch for me. Its not like I am/was ugly. In my 20's I was asked to be a male exotic dancer, but due to my church affiliation there is no way I would have done that. But I was pretty okay looking in my 20's. But the real point I am trying to make is, I think the only people I have ever really loved - lay down your life and sacrifice - loved is my kids. I will lose the only people I have loved. My wife is not able to support the kids. I just started a new biz, which supports us but would not provide a lot of child support on top of supporting myself. She would move back to the state her parents live in and take the children. Those close the the church know that those who left the church ("rejected the true and everlasting gospel") are considered much lower then those who never accepted it. And those that leave the church after being sealed (married) in a temple are considered "sons of perdition". my kids would probably come to see me as some horribly tragic figure no matter what I did with my life or how I interacted with them. I don't want to see my intelligent talented daughters become mere baby machines (when they could become educated developed mothers) or my son a clone of me when I was in my 20's - some super clean cut non-fucking non-masterbating non-drinking nerd who never questions church corporate policy. I would love to see my son when he is 23 do some major roids and score some major babes. My wife is kind of weirded out because here I am in middle age and super clean cut - and a younger friend of mine made a trip to Mexico today - and I am on looking at gaining some size. I don't drink or smoke - but I am going to grow. Better late in life than never. If I do get divorced in the next year or so - I think I will also go to a strip club. I have always wondered what that is all about. [This message has been edited by FakingIt (edited August 02, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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Gymmyaus Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 112) |
posted August 03, 2000 01:26 AM
Damn this post! Too much reading! My head hurts! IP: Logged |
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10cc Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 16) |
posted August 03, 2000 01:56 AM
Faking It, Do like I did... Make your God the God of Iron. You'll be suprised how much better things will be. IP: Logged |
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mrbill Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 111) |
posted August 03, 2000 02:03 AM
Havoc that was an excellent intelligent response. Moe Dank, you were not nearly as scholarly in your response, but you were exactly correct and also quite funny. Future One, it is so easy to do intelligent, unbiased research on religion that it is almost sad when someone is so blinded by superstition and myth. Let me make a simple point you might consider. I am sure you are familiar with Greek mythology...Zeus, Aphrodite, Perseus, Hercules, etc. did it never occur to you that what we now know as mythology was once believed to be the absolute truth? The point being that these beliefs in so-called "Gods" etc. are no different or less valid than Christian beliefs, or Muslim, Hindu, etc. They are all just stories, myths etc. Open your mind and let go of your indoctrination and fear. You are not going to hell...there is no such place. Evil comes from the deeds of men, not the "Devil". I know where you are coming from, I was raised as a "God-Fearing" Christian also. Peace. IP: Logged |
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Future One Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 126) |
posted August 03, 2000 09:40 AM
Hey...to each his own buddy, like Bill Phillips said like 4 years ago. Christian, Muslim, Atheist, at least we all agree that having a great physique is a worthy cause... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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BigGuns2 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 156) |
posted August 03, 2000 12:20 PM
The way I see it. Any organized religion is full of bullshit. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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BIG RICK ROCK Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 534) |
posted August 04, 2000 12:01 PM
Ok here is a question. is Mormon the same as Jehova's Witness ? ? ? it might be a stupid question but it is very important to me at this point. IP: Logged |
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Rexie317 Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 537) |
posted August 04, 2000 01:19 PM
Do Mormons knock on your door at 8am on a Saturday? If so than yes. I hate when their ways for several reasons.... a)They woke me up b)They woke me up to preach to me c)They woke me up before 11 d)They made me get out of bed e)They made me get out of bed to preach to me f)They made me get out of bed before 11 g)They want(ed) me to buy something h)Or if its afer 11, they interupt my college football to preach or sell me something But I just found out that one of my best friends is a Jovie, but hes cool as shit and hasn't done any of the preceedin. IP: Logged |
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HugeMofo Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 33) |
posted August 04, 2000 02:03 PM
Great post to start off FakingIt. I know that's a tough realization to come to, and you seem to be holding up real well. Don't let it turn you ears off 'hear' out from going for a more simple truth though. Then there are some people on this board that are just better to stick to weights. Funny that even there these people don't usually hold up much weight. havoc-"Actually D Lady , marijuana has no effect on your brain cells" -Actually, a study was just done on you, havoc. We found that although marijuana has no direct effect on brain cells, it certainly has an indirect effect on yours. -Blitzed off your ass, no doubt. Pay attention and do more homework now. What sort of grades do u get havoc? I wouldn't expect too good. It's better if u stop smoking so much dope when those sort of discussions formulate and fornicate in your class. Don't worry, I know what class u r in ne ways. Your aim at gunning down Christianity is all too obvious in it's plight. It resounds the aim of one attempting to shoot right at the Bible, but missing and blowing your balls off instead. And then you start off with the working on my masters bit. As if we should all point our ears up and open the holes for a sweet nectar of knowledge. As if you are so much better than all those other happy people. You've got a lot of work to do, young skywalker. Does your mama still wash behind your ears? You've boasted your creditials and 'knowledge' gains more times in this thread than a man sins in his life, havoc. Let's put bloated comments into the machined post mix. I'll hold your genius IQ number to myself, as to not shock the world or anything. I've seen your pics, and your posts go right along with one that scrapes paint chips all day off of flag poles. Lay off the nachos bro, you ain't foolin anyone. Now look in a fishbowl and let that blood pressure of yours subside. Murder of jealousy. Ha! Checkmate. Game over, you lose. IP: Logged |
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havoc Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 626) |
posted August 04, 2000 02:14 PM
Huge Mofo , your hilarious, pride has nothing to do with my previous posts, I am a christian you moron, gpa 3.2 , I am about the truth not the brainwashed redactions you have obviously sucumbed to because of your narrow range of mental capacity, my comments on marijuana are right on the money, me posting about my Masters is to show credibilty not bragging rights, suck a dick, do I captivate you that much, do I bother you to the point of a ridiculous post that has no validity whatsoever, this is even insulting to even answer you in my opinion, if we were face to face there would no quarrel you would feel the realness and truth just by my disposition and realize I am 100% serious with everything I say and do. I am sure you will reply, next post make sure its full of some facts instead of complete bullshit and ignorance. Also I have never posted pics, just another example that you dont know what you speak of, as far as my IQ is concerned, yours X 10 isnt half of mine. I never post to impress anyone, obviously I got under your skin, weakness runs rampid with you. [This message has been edited by havoc (edited August 04, 2000).] IP: Logged |
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HugeMofo Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 33) |
posted August 04, 2000 02:55 PM
Take your ass kicking like a man next time. No crying. <<Huge Mofo , your hilarious, pride has nothing to do with my previous posts, I am a christian you moron, gpa 3.2 >> -You failed there by telling me your gpa in the first place. Like we have your transcripts in front of us. << I am about the truth not the brainwashed redactions you have obviously sucumbed to because of your narrow range of mental capacity,>> -The truth hurts in your case, doesn't it? <<my comments on marijuana are right on the money,>> -My post was better than yours was...no it wasn't...mine was better...no mine was! And you claim to be an educated man? Ha! << me posting about my Masters is to show credibilty not bragging rights,>> -You're a Christain, or claim to be at least. Now tell me something. Did Jesus have his masters, or even his PHD? <<suck a dick, do I captivate you that much, do I bother you to the point of a ridiculous post that has no validity whatsoever, >> -That's not very nice for a Christain man to say. Not very Christlike, but who are we to judge? So I'll excuse you there. And you didn't even fart. <<this is even insulting to even answer you in my opinion,>> -But you took your time, but remember something here son...the Truth can hurt, but it can also set u free. Now you can fart again. << if we were face to face there would no quarrel you would feel the realness and truth just by my disposition and realize I am 100% serious with everything I say and do. >> -Why would we have to be face to face? Are you conceding that you can't hang in the realm of written words? How can you expect to hang in the speech of the mouth then 'face to face?' I believe u are serious. I also believe you a penny short of failing out of an unhappy walk in the system. You're just running on a wheel, and I put my dick in the spokes. Hurts, but it's for your own good. <<I am sure you will reply, next post make sure its full of some facts instead of complete bullshit and ignorance.>> -Here's a fact for you: The word 'am' in my sentence here is the same size as the 'am' in your sentence above. Put on your glasses just to make sure. Thanks. <<Also I have never posted pics, just another example that you dont know what you speak of,>> -I was speaking to bloated at the bottom, indicated by where I began the paragraph with 'bloated.' I told you to put on those eyeglasses. Now, take the crack out of your weed pipe, and pay attention. <<as far as my IQ is concerned, yours X 10 isnt half of mine.>> -I'm better than you are...I'm rubber, you're glue... Just the fact that you had to drop that line, tells us all we need to no in the matter. << I never post to impress anyone,>> -You just post to see how many times you can prop yourself instead. << obviously I got under your skin>> -If u are under my skin, then get to work along with that protein and build me more muscle! It makes me all the stronger in kicking your posting azz. << weakness runs rampid with you.>> -'For when I am weak, then I am strong.' You have lots of 'theological knowledge' and are supposedly a Christain. You should know this verse, and know the power if it. If you didn't know, then do your homework like I said. You probably just felt the power of that verse in this post right here and may just be nearer to getting it now.
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havoc Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 626) |
posted August 04, 2000 03:27 PM
The edit was to add a few things, I could do exactly what you are doing in regards to taking my comments and speculating what they mean. Nothing will get accomplished this way, you have been brainwashed by the exploitations of the govt. and by the redacted Christian teachings of today, its ok, one day you will see the light, know this verse: Wisdom is too high for a fool, he openeth not his mouth in the gate, meaning a dumb bastard as yourself has nothing to add when the truth is spoken or how about this one: A parable in the mouth of a fool is like a crippled man trying to walk. We could go on and on, back and forth, it wouldnt do a bit of difference or make me or you change each others mind, but I tell you what, I live in Houston Tx, let me know when your down here or if I am ever in your town I would be more than happpy to school you on everything you disagree with me about, then we can take this shit to the gym and see not only the mental strength but the physical as well. IP: Logged |
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davidg Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 181) |
posted August 04, 2000 03:40 PM
havoc, This is kinda off topic. But I think you were majoring in theology. If thats true, tell me your opinion on post-modern therom. Particularly, Derrida. Sausoure. IP: Logged |
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MattTheSkywalker Moderator (Total posts: 1263) |
posted August 04, 2000 05:51 PM
Huge, It's pretty easy to break down a thread and critique it. You have anything original to say? Matt IP: Logged |
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PimpAssMoFo Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 17) |
posted August 04, 2000 06:11 PM
Big Rick, The answer to your question is no. IP: Logged |
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HugeMofo Amateur Bodybuilder (Total posts: 33) |
posted August 04, 2000 07:39 PM
U don't even want to take this to a physical level havoc. That doesn't seem very Christain like, as you claim to be anyways. A Christain is defined as one who strives to be Christlike, right? If you must, I live in Long Beach, and you are welcome as well to meet up with me in any one of my gyms as well. My email is [email protected]. I currently live Long Beach, and have lived here or in South Central LA all of my life. I was in my share of battles growing up. What I've found is that fellas that resort to physical threats first do so out of fear. When you mature a bit you'll know what I'm talking about. They are also the ones to first catch a beat down in a non-weapon battle. Also, the fellas that go around physically threatening others with talk, usually end up: A. Capped We're just using words here, and you've been put in your place. Pretty much in the worst way. But, no need to kill people over a battle of words. I suggest next time though, if you can't take the heat stay outta the kitchen. Typical of one though of one defeated in a verbal battle. What's the matter, couldn't take the darts of a written post debate? Throwing in the towel already? Next time, if you're thinking of posting out of your ass, don't forget u might be under someone's shadow. MatttheSkyWalker--Let me ground u real quick. Threads are to speak on the topic. Sometimes the topics tie up, change, and intertwine much like in an actual piece of thread. I've been posting and running all sorts of message boards for years now, so I know how the falk they work. This fella, havoc, had it coming. He's misrepresenting Christains, along with a lot of other things. Maybe he's your buddy and you're playing alliance in a last attempt to rescue the boy. He's talking out of his ass, and I don't like it. I smelled a rat, I called it out, and if you're smart enough you'll uncover all the clues Holmes. Why break down a post? Because then you have direct quotes above, no one can go back and edit them, and everyone can see exactly what u are talking about. Communication 101, and a solid form of it. Use it some time. Your lesson for the day young Skywalker. Also, this is a general chat board and I can talk about whatever I want to here, right? I gave my take on the first post above, and think it's great he's escaped the Mormon church.
BTW, good call out davidg. Let's see how long it takes him to look this one up. IP: Logged |
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havoc Pro Bodybuilder (Total posts: 626) |
posted August 04, 2000 10:42 PM
As stated above, no war has been one, you only cause me to laugh at your remarks, like I said we could go back and forth in regards to whatever subject it may be, as far as DavidG is concerned I will be damned if I am about to attempt to answer any questions with the intent to prove myself on a computer, also there was no threat made, I simply offered to explain my posts through facts, books, articles, etc on a professional level then we could take it to the gym. I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me, everything I posted I was taught or read, there were 3 major professors that taught me throughout my schooling, 2 were ministers and one was a catholic priest, there intent was to point out theological truths about the bible and teach one to learn to think for his or her self and not be part of the redaction of Greek, Roman, Yahwists, Elohists, Priestly and Deuteronomical versions, there sole purpose was to teach the actual and traditional hebrew facts not what it is today. The bible has gone through many different changes, ex. A Yahwist version during a theophany(religious experience,like the parting of the red sea) the people were afraid, an elohists version during a theophany the people were approaching and praising whatever was going on, that is just an iota of examples I could give, my intent on my posts was not to take away but to point out the truth, in regards to marijauna and brain cells, that study was done a quarter of a century ago on monkeys backed by no scientific evidence, then the govt. as usual exploited that research, lied, brainwashed almost all of America and obviously you are part of that, not that it matters but my grades through my entire educational career were all A's and B's with little effort being put into it, herb and other shit effects people differently. Anyway this is end of discussion for me , its Friday, I just picked some Afghani last week and I am about to smoke it for the first time, cant wait, we will continue this if you would like but just remember I am not changing you and vice versa. IP: Logged |
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