posted July 26, 2000 01:03 PM            

I made small progresses until Tes* therapy, then WOW! I feel like I'm 18 again. Making great progress in all excersises and strength. Been at it for 6 weeks and made more progress than the last 2 years.

Just wondering if anyone else in my geezer group has the same experiences.

posted July 26, 2000 03:07 PM            

My test levels were reading about 70-90, so the doc explained about the shots, freq, etc.
I get 10cc of cyp for 6 mos supply 1 cc approx every 2 weeks. Big deal!

I did a little small addition to the above and thats whats making me feel so good.

I also have type 2 diabetes(NID) and my sugar levels plummeted! from 230 in the am to 120.

I FIRMLY believe that a lot(if not most) Dr.'s have little interest in their patients (due to time constraints), Its up to you to research-experiment-and take charge of your health.

Anyways, I'm almost done and while I have not gained much weight, by bf% is down to about 12% in the last 3 months and I look forward to getting down even further.

BTW There is nothing like benching 315 for 3 reps in front of all the frat boys w/ wifebeaters with their tribal tatoos.

I'm committed to this lifestyle forever!!!!!

posted July 27, 2000 08:05 AM            

42 here and been lifting since a teenager. The last few years I noticed the pumps arent what they used to be and the strength increases arent there. But I'm committed for life! Sometimes my wife says I should be committed for all the time I put in the gym. LOL

But you're right, when I see the pitiful shape the other dads are in I am sooooo glad I stuck to this. Wifey is too.

posted July 27, 2000 08:41 AM            

I'm 49, been lifting seriously for over four years. I started right after I'd been through a drastic weight reduction era, going from 223 to 144 in about 9 months. Since I've been training, I lift 6 days a week, about 1-1/2 to 2 hours per day. I've put on about 50 pounds (I was at 196 this morning), and I still wear the jeans I wore when I was at 144 (though they're a bit tighter, especially in the thighs). I've got a lot of bad joints and old injuries I have to work around, but I'm obviously making progress, gaining both size and strength, a lot in the arms and shoulders.

I use supplements - ECA, creatine and andro - but no "gear," mostly because of the legal problems with it rather than any objection to it on moral or health grounds. We're all old enough here to remember what they used to say about grass, right?, and I've not noticed any epidemic of steroid-induced deaths. For me, it's a legal and protect the family and career thing.

One thing I notice about myself is how much more discipline I have than practically anyone I know. One of my chubby, on again / off again with exercise agemates will ask me "You still going to the gym?" and I'll think to myself "Are you kidding? You couldn't keep me out of there with a gun!" I do legs, heavy squats, every week, while my 18 year old training buddied beg off with complaints of "bad knees."

I feel badly for a lot of the people our age who want to get fit, and think that treadmills and stairmasters is the way to do it. I see them month after month, year after year, trudging away and not changing their body composition a wink. Meanwhile, they've seen me put on 20, 30 or more pounds of LBM (I gain, I figure, a little less than a pound a month), and never compare the results. That's strange. I have to admit that I look down on the dads of most of my kids friends, none of whom are in shape, most of whom are fat. I don't like that about myself, but there it is.

I might join in on this thread again later if it keeps going. Glad to make the acquainance of each of you. Keep the Fire!

Bjaarki

------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

posted July 27, 2000 10:40 AM            

Yeah, comparing yourself to younger guys is a real problem. On the whole, though, I think I like working out around younger guys, and recommend it to my agemates. During the week I work out at the university gym where I'm on the faculty. I've got 20, even 30 years on almost all the guys there. Sure, I feel my gorge rise when some kid 20 pounds lighter lays down to bench 100 pounds more than I can push. On the other hand, I know that very few of their Dads look anything like me, and there are some lifts I can beat these kids, almost any of them, at. And it's tremendously satisfying to hear some young trainer ask me "Were you all juiced up when you were in college?" and I have to answer "No, college was a LONG TIME AGO for me, and I've only been lifting for 4 plus years."

A funny thing happens to me when I split my workouts between the university gym (M to F), and the community "Y" (Sunday, where I go because it opens early). At the university gym, I look in the mirror and I see a pretty buffed up old guy, pretty muscular at 6'0", 195 or so, maybe 12 percent BF. At the Y, though, I'm the buffest guy by about 2 standard deviations. Everyone is my age (or, maybe, mid-30's on up), and most are what my young buddies call "bunny trainers" (meaning stairmasters, aerobics and stuff like that). I look in the mirror at they Y and I see a guy much fitter than the guy I see at the university. Don't know why that is, must have something to do with relative bases of comparison, but the illusion is striking.

I like this effect of training at the Y, it really stroked my narcissism, but I don't like what it does to the other comparisons I make (how much to lift, how many reps, etc.). Guys at the Y think #30 dumbells are heavy, and start grimacing after 4 reps on a set of hammer curls. That's not good. I like my young buds at the university, grabbing an #80 bell for concentration curls. I don't go that high, but I'll try a #50.

Just rambling at this point. It's fun to join a thread of older guys. I wonder if there are enough of us to support our own board.

By the way, what do you guys think of steroid use? It's a lot more complicated for us, with out families and careers. I've already laid out my views - no moral or medical, just legal, qualms - and would be interested in all your points of view.

Bjaarki

------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

posted July 27, 2000 03:51 PM            

What do you mean when you say you're "still making gains," if you also say your strength has declined.

Also, when did you stop the gear, and what shape is your liver in now?

I agree, BTW, that both the types of gear available, and the cycles used, are safer now, or at least are capable of being used in a safer way, because so much more is known about them. The real experts are guys like the vets and mods on this board. I don't think most docs know anything about them, though I do anticipate that, with the arrival of things like androgel, gear will become a part of "life extension medicine" in the future. Perhaps not here in the US, at least anytime soon, but certainly elsewhere.

Let's keep this thread going!

Bjaarki

------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

posted July 28, 2000 04:13 PM            

Fitness For Life:

For a once a week per muscle group routine, you'll probably need a 6-way split. That means working out 6 days per week. Some people claim that's overtraining. I personally think there's no such thing as overtraining, only under-nourishing and under-resting, and so have a different view than 10cc, but there you go. I've been working out 6 days per week for well over four years and have put on 50 lbs LBM in that period without gear, so it can work!

Try this. This is the routine I've been using the past year, during which I've gained about 15 pounds of LBM at age 49 on nothing but creatine and andro. The principal is to give yourself at least three days rest between work on the same muscle, even if the muscle is used only indirectly or in support (like biceps on back day).

Day 1: Bi's, tri's. I go back and forth between pulling and pushing movements, using lots of variations on the curl and the basic pushdown. This is my favorite day, since curls are my best lift.

Day 2: Legs (squats, deads, calves) and traps (heavy shrugs). Lower back gets plenty of work with squats and deads. Don't pussy out on either squats or deads. They're fundamental. Use whatever you have to to do squats (use box squats if you must) but get them in there!

Day 3: Shoulders and abs. I use dumbbells for both shoulders and chest almost exclusively. Used to use bars, but get a better stretch with bells, and seem to like them better. I do lots of military presses, side extensions, etc.. My gym has a good machine for abs (Thera-crunch, highly recommended!), and I treat abs like any other muscle, meaning heavy weight, 10 to 12 reps.

Day 4: Upper back (pullup, pulldowns, rows, etc.). Note your bi's get a lot of work, but it's been 72 hours since you last worked them. I even throw in a little targetted bi work when I want to. I'm kind of a pullup wimp, and so have been doing work mostly on the lat machine, but am trying to switch over.

Day 5: Traps and calves. I spend a whole day on traps, because I'm trying hard to build them up. I use both bells and bars, and use wrist hooks so my forearms don't quit on me too soon. I also think it's OK to target calves, just like abs, more frequently than once a week, so I do so on this day, but it has been 72 hours since I last worked them on leg day. BTW, I use StrengthShoes for calves. Picked them up on eBay for $30.

Day 6: Chest and abs. It's been 72 hours since I last worked abs on shoulder day. I'll involve my tri's somewhat with chest, but they're not targetted, and I won't work them again for another two days. Again, I use bells pretty exclusively, except for decline presses, where I use a Smith machine (too scared to have those bells hanging over my pretty face!).

Day 7: Rest. Baseball with the kids, napping on the couch, etc..

Key here is getting lots of protein, training hard, and for a long period of time. I do anywhere from 30 to 40 worksets per workout, sometimes a few more, and am usually in the gym from 90 minutes to 2 hours or so. Some people say you can't keep up the intensity for that long a time, but I think they should just speak for themselves. I do every set to failure (and I mean FAILURE), and usually do a drop set (or strip set or burnout set, whatever you want to call it) on my last of three sets. If that ain't intensity, I don't know what is, and I'm still pushing hard when, reluctantly, I leave the gym after a two hour marathon.

Email me if you want. I'd be glad to chat.

Bjaarki

------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

BECOME SOMEONE'S HERO!

[This message has been edited by Bjaarki (edited July 28, 2000).]

posted July 28, 2000 10:06 PM         

I don't think you are overtraining if you put 72 hours between bodyparts. I myself would be WAY overtrained if I did as many sets as that (as I used to do). But whatever works for you. I used to spend hours in the gym, now I just hit 2 bodyparts per day (as heavy as I can) for ten to fifteen sets and get the hell out of the gym.

posted July 29, 2000 10:25 AM            

You say you would be overtrained if you were to do as many sets as I do. I hear that a lot, and I just don't understand. You've obviously been lifting for a long time, so I'd be interested in your views on this overtraining thing. Maybe some of the other bros could chime in, too.

You're implying that you can overtrain from doing too much work on a muscle in a given workout. We're therefore not talking about nutrition, or about recovery, but about the stress level on the muscle in a given workout as being the source of overtraining. Do you believe that? I don't. I've read a bunch of things about cortisone levels climbing after the first 30 minutes, the neuromuscular circuit necessary for a given lift only being activated during the first 40 minutes, etc., but all that seems like so much BS to me. I really think the weightlifting gurus are prone to go way beyond the limits of their knowledge, to bring in a bunch of pseudotechnical arguments (what we call in academia "the golden shovel," as in shoveling the horseshit), and to reify a putative construct (e.g., overtraining) as a fact.

If overtraining were to result from lifting too heavy a weight too many times during a given workout, and if overtraining were to result in a loss of size and strength, then the guys with the puniest, weakest forearms should be blacksmiths, no?, guys who lift heavy sledges all day long. Yet I'd hate to go head to head with a blacksmith in an armwrestling contest.

To me, overtraining is a very sloppy, misunderstood, and possible baseless concept. I think you can fail to progress in size and strength by not eating properly, and possibly by training the same muscle too frequently (though even here the blacksmith example would argue against this). But training a muscle too hard, too many sets, too heavy a weight, in a given workout. Nah, I don't believe that. I know you can injure yourself that way, but injury is not overtraining, at least as the term is usually understood.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, 10cc, as well as those of any of the other old guys on this thread.

Bjaarki

------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

posted July 29, 2000 05:37 PM            

------------------
Expect the unexpected.

posted July 31, 2000 03:56 AM            

My main problem with aging gracefully is my joints. I have not been injury free for a long time. Not enough to have to lay off the weights, but it prevents me from going to failure, getting a good burn and attaining a decent increase in poundage. I'm really interested in a steroid cycle, but am scared that this might aggravate my injuries if I start getting powerful enough to push much heavier. From the Anabolic board I see that many complain of injuries. Coud this be from a sudden spurt in strength puttting too much pressure on joints?

posted July 31, 2000 07:08 AM            

------------------
Expect the unexpected.

posted July 31, 2000 05:09 PM            

PS-- I usually don�t read the Chat board, but a post on the Anabolics board referred me to this and I�m glad I looked for it. I hope other men will contribute to this and tell us about being an �over 40� bodybuilder (whatever your size). Later.

posted July 31, 2000 07:13 PM            

Great post. Keep us informed on your progress, and on the outcome of your cycle.

Bjaarki

------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

posted August 03, 2000 04:27 PM            

Don't be too paranoid about putting on a little flab. You gotta add fat to add LBM, o at least it's a hell of a lot easier to add LBM that way. Bulk and cut, bulk and cut, is the way to go.

I usually add 20 pounds during the fall and winter, then shed 10 or so in six weeks starting in early May. It's very easy for me to both lose and gain. Weight keeps going up about 10 pounds per year, without gear, so far, with this bulk and cut diet concept.

Bjaarki

------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

posted August 04, 2000 09:12 PM            

Bjaarki

------------------
"'Til the weard of the world, stands, unforgotten,
high under Heaven, the hero's name." - Hrolf Krakki's Saga (Iceland)

posted August 05, 2000 09:40 PM            

I just started competitive BB this year, did 2 shows and getting ready for my 3rd and final until some time next year.

Funny thing I just came from taking my girls to a pool party and all the mom's and dad's and even young kids always ask how I look this way after all those kids. "BUILD MASS", I reply. There is nothing like having a seventeen year old little life guard boy ask, "Damn, how'd you get those abs?"

As I said in an earlier post ...My hubby will be 40 in March and if I could get him to stay away from the Ring Dings for 12 weeks I'm sure he could fulfill a boyhood fantasy by competing and probably doing well.