posted July 07, 2000 12:37 AM            

If your gay take my words of wisdom and be straight. how can you look at a nother huy and enjoy the sight him on his knees... end damn the rest if to damn gross. yuck

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if they don't lift...
-RIP 'EM A NEW ONE-

posted July 07, 2000 12:39 AM            

eminem

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Sign the petition now at LegalizeSteroids.com,DecriminalizeSteroids.com, or SignThePetition.com!

posted July 07, 2000 01:16 AM            

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Peace!Nate out.

posted July 07, 2000 02:30 AM            

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posted July 07, 2000 12:14 PM            

I personally cringe when thinking @ the gay act, but my philosophy is that as long as u don�t harm your fellow man what right does one segment of society have two impose their beliefs on others.

Some Gays in history Alexander the Great and Ceaser

posted July 07, 2000 12:20 PM            

About the hormones easier for trans. to get. I dont know about you guys but I like the fact that steriods are hard to get, makes it more rare to see great built bodies, if everyone had access you wouldnt get as much respect, I think - at any rate I don't want them to be easily accesible.

posted July 07, 2000 01:03 PM         

Also, it is out of fear for what would happend to sports. If juice were legal, could you imagine how deeply they would become rooted into sports. Sure, it would be great to watch but damn, there would be A LOT of hard core usage and the team with the best scientists would win.

posted July 07, 2000 01:44 PM            

First, gays and lesbians are not interested in having a sex change they are attracted to members of the same sex. Transgendered people can be both straight or gay, but feel like they were meant to be the opposite sex. The only thing that transgendered people and gays and lesbians have in common is that all are sexual minorities.

Now to address Jim's questions about why transgendered people can get hormones, but athletes cannot. The reason is because unlike us bodybuilders, the transgender community is organized, out, and willing to fight for the right to use hormones of the opposite sex. They are not afraid to stand up for their beliefs, address their opponents, and make logical arguments using their real names for their need to be able to change their sex. They worked hard for this right and it was not easy for them to obtain it.

We on the other hand are unorganized, and ashamed of our wanting to enhance our masculine characteristics using hormones. Read any bodybuilding magazine, and you will hear the Pro's attribute their success to anything but anabolic steroids. Cybergenic kits come to mind. Even on this board, no one uses his real name, and we all hide behind anonymous email accounts -- we even black out our faces when we post pictures of ourselves. Until we make a stand, things are not likely to get better. This is why at the least, with every post I make here, I include my name, address, email, and phone number, to in a small way let people know that I am not ashamed.

If anything, we should learn from the transgender community instead of criticizing or being jealous of them. I am certain that they would be supportive of us.

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Yours in sport,

George

George Spellwin
Research Director

posted July 07, 2000 03:58 PM            

btw, supersizeme, i personally think that the old saying about homophobes having their own hidden sexuality issues is bullshit. most of 'em are just ignorant...and i don't mean that as an insult, i just mean they really haven't gotten to know any "normal" gays and get their impressions from the flamers and the ones on "springer". we (fags) are not ALL like that.

posted July 07, 2000 04:25 PM            

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HAVE A NICE DAY

posted July 07, 2000 09:27 PM            

We have a lot in common. I've worked for years for more size, have been on cycle enough to mutter "Sustanon" in my sleep, and I know the hard work it takes to get big and strong. (depending on whether I'm on cycle or not I range from 220 to 250 at 6' tall. Bench in the mid 300's, comfortably squat 405 for reps. 19" arms and chest a little over 50". I'm 47 and have trained since I was 29)

I respect every single one of you who has busted his (or her!) butt in the gym.

I'm also a gay man. If you're planning to hate me for that, well you better start doing it now. But if you'd like to share experiences in the gym (and with anabolics!), and learn from one another, I'm here.

There's a lot of misunderstanding going on about what being a faggot is, and is not--since I am one, I figure I can use the word. If you like, I'll talk with any of you by e-mail or in the forums about the realities of gay life, but I'd like to remind you that what brings us together here on these boards is a hell of a lot stronger than anything that drives us apart.

I wish you the best rep ever, looking forward to new friends.

posted July 08, 2000 10:15 AM         

If someone is gay I am sure they also cannot just decide not to be. I have had several gay and Bi friends. I had guys who lived on my street who in grade school knew they were gay and openly shared their "secret" with me. I guess I am not shocked by it since friends I knew since I was really young have been gay - and I never felt and fear or had and struggles since they knew I was not. We were always just friends who had different tastes.

I feel for people trapped in lies. I had a long time friend of about 15 years recently come out of the closet. The BIG problem is he was in a marriage of 10 years with 4 kids. What trauma that is to everyone. If society was more accepting of it, at least they could admit it earlier and avoid messing up other peoples lives. But instead many feel a need to conform and write checks they can't really cash.

posted July 08, 2000 08:57 PM            

Good to have you. To everyone else, the "bear" knows his stuff and will be an asset to the board if the rest of you closed minds (if the shoe fits, wear it-you know who I mean) can listen to him.

Don't use the religious argument against homosexuality. Religion is an opinion, nothing more. There is no proof.

People used to say AIDS was God's punishment for gays until it started decimating straight populations too. AIDS is going to wipe out sub-Saharan Africa - destroy an entire culture; who is being punished there?

What are you homophobes afraid of, that you can't treat a gay person with respect? What is the damn difference, what people do on their time? Why do you care? Or are you just trying to knock someone else down to feel better about your own mediocre lives? Just need to feel secure that your lifestyle is right?

That's so weak.

Bring the flames.

posted July 08, 2000 09:09 PM            

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Winners make promises, losers make excuses. I ain't the best...I just wanted it more.
-The Iron Tank.

posted July 09, 2000 12:36 AM            

I really don't want to change the subject, BUT - religion is man's interpretation of what God has told us.

Belief in God (for believers) is FAITH, not religion, and that is between God and the believer. Religion is the customs and ceremonies associated with a certain group and their practices of worship.

Religion is NOT belief in God. Faith is.
Religion is man's best efforts at interpreting what their God (Jesus for Christians) or his prophet (Mohammed, Buddha, etc) has passed on to us. Because it is MAN'S EFFORT, it is inherently flawed.

I hate to hear the "it goes against God" argument, on any topic. It may or it may not - I am not God, nor are you. It goes against your religion, and what its leaders tell you to believe.

I don't believe in organized religion. My faith, on the other hand, is as I said before, is an individual matter.

Matt

PS Feel free to email me if you want on this topic or any other

posted July 09, 2000 01:37 AM            

First in response to "Mystic_Hormones"
you that claim religion well, my take on it is the following: many doctors and researchers will tell you that there is more and more evidence that shows that people are born Gay, it is not a choise but the way a person is born, scientist have even been able to make Gay mice in a lab, YES thats right, by affecting the mice hormone levels during the fetal stage of birth, they have been able to create female mice that court other females and mount them as trying to mate with them.
What I'm trying to say here is that if people are born with an attraction toward the
same sex then (if you beleive in God) it's God's will for them to be this way, almighty God who controls the fall of every single raindrop then has decided to make some people Gay, now who are we to question God's work??
we must embrace every one of God's creatures because he created them,
and if God created homosexual people then it's because he made a place for them on earth and a place for them in heaven.

I have personaly met many Homosexuals in my 20 years on earth, and one thing I've noticed is that they are people just like you and me, they have jobs, pay taxes and have problems just like the rest of us, in fact I have yet to meet a single "Homo" who is not succesful in some field. they work harder than some of us straight people, they are more united and have a common goal.

I can understand that some of you here can have issues with Homosexuality, but it comes from deeper problems than just "thinking it's gross" and you'll need to take a long look in the mirror and see where the real problem lies.

and "Musclebear" brother we welcome you and embrace you as one of us, we know you are an individual with goals and aspirations of a better healthier body just like the rest of us, welcome to the Iron Brotherhood.

Ps: I'm neither Religious nor Gay, I belive that religion is an opinion, the "every body else is wrong and I'm right" attitude of all religions is what makes them not appeal to me.
I have no issues with homosexuality there fore I don't judge them on their sexual orientation but on the content of their character, as long as you give me respect I'll give it back to you no matter what you color,creed or sexual orientation.

posted July 09, 2000 04:33 AM            

L8R
I'm sorry this got off topic, but I couldn't let it go.

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posted July 09, 2000 11:55 PM            

Unless you can study the culture, the people, and how they think and feel along with the biology behind the whole thing, you will NEVER understand, so don't make statements trashing them unless you have the whole story.

The reason they get therapy and we don't, is becuase we don't undergo 1 year of Psyche eval., physical changes (surgery, hair removal, etc), group therapy and extensive analysation. Would you go through all that for 1 year to get 1 cycle??? The doctors don't GIVE it away, it takes ALOT to get it....

George, I agree completely, but what these transgenders are doing is LEGAL. They don't have a problem with the law, only social opposition. We have BOTH to overcome. I would use my real name etc, but, when it comes to anything underground, etc, people want to be as anonymous as possible to ensure their life isn't probed into, or even ruined by the law.. etc.. until we can overcome THAT, we will get what we are looking for...

posted July 11, 2000 01:03 PM            

Does anyone know if gender reassignment has always been legal? I would think that it was illegal at one time, but I do not know for sure. Seems I read that people used to have to go to northern European countries for the procedure.

With respect to the law and anabolic steroids, they may have never been "legal," but they only became criminal recently. I think this really sucks, but there was almost no opposition when it happened.

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Yours in sport,

George

George Spellwin
Research Director

posted July 11, 2000 03:35 PM            

Everytime someone makes a comment of how steroids kill and why they are bad, I ask them what a steroid molecule is and what a receptor is, and they shut right up. Because until someone challenges the media, people will keep on believing the myth. I remember an article in MuscleMag about Greg zulak going on Morton Downey with steroids. If all is true, it was a big circus.. why? because people DON'T want to take an objective view.. PEOPLE LOVE SCANDAL, LIES AND RUMOUR. These 3 things are SIN, people love SIN.

Joseph, I COMPLETELY understand.. but... it's this way I found.. anything that is underground / counterculture, people LOVE to hammer down. If it doesn't read word for word in the BIBLE/KORAN/TORRAH/ETC, or does not fit the average Joe's value system (which most underground activites don't), people look down on.. with NO EDUCATION on what it is they are criticizing.

It's like what's locally happening in my town.. they are trying to REGULATE AND CONTROL RAVES, because it is "KILLING TEENS" (btw, the xtc does NOTHING to kill teens, it is the lack of drinking water / dehydration that is killing teens, they just need to be more sensible when they do XTC), just like the mass deaths we all know are caused by anabolics... can you believe that? For Raves now, the city wants 45 day advance notice, something like a $450 fee for "processing" or some BS, and adequate security. They are just going to shut the government TOTALLY off and go back underground becuase of this. I know I am off on a tangent here, but the goverment REALLY needs to take an objective, intensive and analytical investigation into RECREATIONAL (by that I mean pot, xtc, shrooms, anabolics) VS. street drugs (heroin, crack, coke, etC) and reclassify how they handle them.

To all FEDS: STEROIDS ARE >>NOT<< THE SAME AS COKE - people don't sell out family and home, steal and kill to go on a cycle.

Just my 2 cents.. Sorry for the rant guys, but, this is something I feel strongly about... I will stop ranting now..

[This message has been edited by Whammo (edited July 11, 2000).]