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Formula
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 221)
posted July 06, 2000 10:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Formula   Click Here to Email Formula     Edit/Delete Message
A couple of month back there was a debate over the confederate flag. Is it a racial symbol or southern heritage? I think it a racist symbol. Just like SS symbol in Germany. Just like the Nazi flag. I symbolize a time were people were slave. If I go down south and I see a confederate flag I think ok here is a racist redneck. Might not be right but that's the association I have with the flag.

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Steelheart
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 528)
posted July 06, 2000 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steelheart   Click Here to Email Steelheart     Edit/Delete Message
Same here, but Im sure thats not the case. If it is a racist remark, what does that say to your "good ol' boys" Bo and Luke and The General Lee???

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moe dank
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 1102)
posted July 06, 2000 10:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moe dank   Click Here to Email moe dank     Edit/Delete Message
well the confederate flag stands for the souths veiw on slavery to me. I am from the south and to me it stands for inbred white trash and their uneducated veiws.

hillbillys suck

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"if you are not a rebel by age 20 you have no heart. If you have no industry by age 30 you are an idiot." Jackson
www.alternativegarden.com

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The Dude
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 51)
posted July 06, 2000 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Dude   Click Here to Email The Dude     Edit/Delete Message
I understand the feelings some southerners have for the confederate flag. There is a lot of history and tradition wrapped up in it that has nothing to do with slavery. However, it also represents a group of states that attempted to secede over the issue of states' rights and the biggie there involved slavery. Just by mere association, it has taken on the status of a symbol of hate and intolerance. Right or wrong, that is what it is in popular culture and that is what I often see as well.

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TxCollegeguy
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 375)
posted July 06, 2000 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TxCollegeguy   Click Here to Email TxCollegeguy     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 48636409

Being a southerner myself and one of mixed racial heritage, I don't have a problem with it....

It's to bad that the only attention the media is giving it goes to the PUKES that disgrace it ex:KKK, SKINHEADS, and other hate groups...Grant it many of the people you see on Tv protesting about keeping it back up in SC are a bunch of kluckers who have no business skipping work or the food stamp line.

I don't think you can compare the Rebel flag to the Nazi SS or the Nazi flag...The reason I believe they kept the flag up as long as they did was to Defy the Federal Govt. Throught History SC has been the first state to stick it's tongue at Uncle Sam...The civil war wasn't directly fought over slavery it was about States Rights, slavery was the economic issue driving that...I know I'm going to get alot of Criticism from people wanting to sight morals, but considering the fact that slaves at that time weren't excepted in the north for being people I don't think I want to hear that arguement here...Historically fact can be found and read in most SERIOUS Text on the time to show why it was in the economic interests for the North to take away slavery by changing the constitution....Economic power of the Agricultural South was comparable to Industrial North...Slavery made that possible.

I think it is a heritage symbol and not one of racisim...it might surprise some people to learn that Free Black men did fight on the side of the south. So did my native American ancestors. So if it is a symbol of racisim today it sure wasn't to them then.

This all being said I will say I'm glad it's down...To many people Are ignorant and Refuse to EDUCATE themselves on the history behind the flag and more importantly give a little compassion to those who still choose to remember their heritage.

I think there are WAY to many illinformed people trying to pass judgement on the people who still fly the flag. It's Part of Not only the south's History but the History of the U.S. You won't see them taking the Flag down on the battle field memorials in the North or South. Cause thats all it is....

HISTORY......

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greenhouse
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 289)
posted July 06, 2000 10:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for greenhouse   Click Here to Email greenhouse     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 43682495
Txcollegeguy, I am from the South and I think that it is very petty to cause such big deal about a flag. Life is just to damn short for me to worry about things like that...

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Kaisersosay
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 217)
posted July 06, 2000 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kaisersosay   Click Here to Email Kaisersosay     Edit/Delete Message
I think that flag is misrepersented.I'm sure alot of people that fought under that flag didnot believe in what they were fighting for.They saw it as there duty.Just like in Veitnam.You think half the people who died there wanted to be there.The Civil War killed more Americans(north and south)then all the wars combined.I think if someone wants to honor there dead realatives they have that right.Not everyone who hangs that flag is racist.Thats just my view.I think the people who use it as a symbol for something else are just ignorent.Oh yeah I watched the Dukes of Hazard when I was young and no one ever said anything.I think this is just another nit pick thing people are bringing up to cause controversey in this World.Let's all hang clear plastic flags this way no one will piss and moan.

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moe dank
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 1102)
posted July 06, 2000 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moe dank   Click Here to Email moe dank     Edit/Delete Message
not when you have the blood of an entire race driping from that flag. Where the hell is the pride in wanting to keep slaves. You might as well fly the nazi flag and say fuck what the jews fell about it.

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"if you are not a rebel by age 20 you have no heart. If you have no industry by age 30 you are an idiot." Jackson
www.alternativegarden.com

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TxCollegeguy
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 375)
posted July 06, 2000 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TxCollegeguy   Click Here to Email TxCollegeguy     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 48636409
Well I will say once again that I am glad that it is down, only because Ignorance on Both sides of the issue has made people forget the real reasons why it was there as long as it was....If people made educated decessions on the issue then I think that would be better to hear their oppions based on relative truth to the situation given it's history....

I just have a problem listening To any person saying it's all about This one issue wether they be for or against it. Especially when that person has no Educational facts to back that up but only their own bias opinions without any study of the facts....It's a waste of my time when wanting to watch the news, read a paper, or listen to the radio to propaganda reports on either side of the issue.

People in this country have a bad track record with Educating themselves on just about most issues. The Purpose of this board should be another reminder of that ignorance to everyone...

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Capt'n_Crunch
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 1015)
posted July 06, 2000 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Capt'n_Crunch   Click Here to Email Capt'n_Crunch     Edit/Delete Message
Personally, I dont hate the flag as a representation of the south and its heritage, but the fact is that it has become a symbol of hatred for idiot ass rednecks. Its sad that something so honorable as the stars and bars has become the symbol for ignorance and hatred..... take it down and burn tha bitch........

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thiassi
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 832)
posted July 06, 2000 11:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thiassi   Click Here to Email thiassi     Edit/Delete Message
I didn't read the posts above mine yet but here are my feelings. The Confedirate flag can be used as a symbol of racism because it has no right to be flown. The south lost the war and thus lost the right to fly the flag. Anyone displaying the flag in public view to me is either a traitor or a racist, what other meaning would the flag have?
I do think it should be flown on a Confedirate war musium, memorial, and anything that showes or represents history.
The only flags that should be flown are the American flag and the State flag. Flags flown of other countries that is done in respect of that country is fine as well.

These are only me views, and everyone is intitled to thier own views.

L8R

I wanted to add that slavery was an amendment that I feel was used to keep the south unable to rise again against the north. The same way Iraq has many imposed limitations on its use of resources. I think it was the most important result of the war and we ( white americans ) commited atrocities in the same class as what occured with the Jews in WWII. If there were any slave owners alive today I think they should be put in jail for the same amount of time they had slaves. There was no way people were thinking slavery was the right thing to do it was only for the money. And America is the world power house today because of the blood and sweat of the slaves.
I am a white male born and raised in the South. We had a Confedirate flag and my father's best friend was in the KKK. I thought that was soo cool when I was young they had bumper stickers that said KicK up trucK so they would know other members. When I got older and smarter I understood how fucked up they really were. I think I covered everything I wanted to cover.

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[This message has been edited by thiassi (edited July 06, 2000).]

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TxCollegeguy
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 375)
posted July 06, 2000 11:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TxCollegeguy   Click Here to Email TxCollegeguy     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 48636409
hey Moe Does that Mean

We Should take down the AMERICAN Flag and every Other countries Flag that has owned land here during the past for THE Spilt Blood of My Native American Ancestors???

Thats not what it's about...If people choose to see it as that, then Why not Take the American Flag down for THE GENICIDE that NATIVE Americans have Endured For Far longer then any Slave did. Just within The recorded history of the United States Far more Native Americans have been Murdered by the U.S. Government and it's states then The total amount of Slaves ever brought and born into this country.

Even after slavery Ended Native Americans were still forced into Reservations, If my Great Great Grandparents were still alive I don't think you would be able to convince them that their journey on the Trail of tears was a reason to fly the American Flag up...But that didn't stop my grandfather and great uncle from serving this country as well as being proud of being southerners.

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Frackal
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 465)
posted July 07, 2000 01:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Frackal   Click Here to Email Frackal     Edit/Delete Message
"...not when you have the blood of an entire race driping from that flag..."

-Moe Dank's gotta point..

"hey Moe Does that mean
We Should take down the AMERICAN Flag and every Other countries Flag that has owned land here during the past for the Spilt Blood of My Native American Ancestors???"

-...But so does TX..

Hmmm... I say take it the fuck down though. This is America, and in America we fly the American Flag..

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Frackal
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 465)
posted July 07, 2000 01:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Frackal   Click Here to Email Frackal     Edit/Delete Message
PS- " hillbillys suck " <--- An excellent point by Moe Dank.

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mystic_hormones
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 81)
posted July 07, 2000 01:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mystic_hormones   Click Here to Email mystic_hormones     Edit/Delete Message
bump to frakal and moe dank except I wish they could see avery race equal like I do. If they learn to see no color I then see no wall between us.

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if they don't lift...
-RIP 'EM A NEW ONE-

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TxCollegeguy
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 375)
posted July 07, 2000 01:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TxCollegeguy   Click Here to Email TxCollegeguy     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 48636409
I just wish people could put an end to the wrongs people in the past have made...I really don't believe anyone here should pass blame in any direction for the wrongs of those committed in the past by our ancestors

I love people based on their character and what they stand for. Not their race, religion, or sex...I think it's very reckless for anyone to pass blame for something that happened YEARS AND YEARS ago...I think most people here would agree that whats happened in the past was wrong, but society has learned better so I hope...

Never should we forget, but for crying out loud lets just Live for the Day with the hope of a better future, not for the past...None of us made the choices of our ancestors and with their deaths so died their bad choices.

The reason why I don't oppose the flag is cause I think it should be used as a perminant reminder To all in this country that We are not perfect and that not only have we made mistakes but we will always make mistakes...The best we can do is hope that we go about correcting those mistakes.

for anyone in the older crowd that might stumble onto this post(35-55yrs old) would they agree that alot has changed in the past 30 years?

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picasso
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 34)
posted July 07, 2000 04:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for picasso   Click Here to Email picasso     Edit/Delete Message
I can't word my opinion any better than Moe already has.Ditto.

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Bonita1
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 41)
posted July 07, 2000 04:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bonita1   Click Here to Email Bonita1     Edit/Delete Message
I agree with Frackal..Hillbillys suck!!and so do racist people.

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Kahn
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 565)
posted July 07, 2000 06:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kahn     Edit/Delete Message
I don't give a shit about your color, just that you're not an asshole or a pig. Be normal and don't fuck with other people. I've been shit on by mostly blacks just because I'm white, guess they had bad lives or some other story. The flag is just a cool design to me. I wasn't here for slavery and I never oppressed anyone for 400 some odd yrs. Hell, my people haven't been here for 400 some odd yrs. I'm not the blacks worst enemy, blacks are. Not that I blame the hostility on them, shit, odds are they were dealt a worse hand then I.

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EliteLifter
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 98)
posted July 07, 2000 06:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for EliteLifter   Click Here to Email EliteLifter     Edit/Delete Message
I�m not racist, i hate racist people, but i have to add something... the africans practiced slavery among them aswell and some of them were slave traders who had very lucrative businesses with the white people... so things are not that simple... well this was only a view on the racism issue...
The Confederate Flag represents the states that practiced slavery in the USA and were proud of it, so proud that they fought the North about it... so the flag only exists to remember the people of that... it shouldn�t exist, its ridiculous in a democratic country...

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I bench press 400lbs with a HEAVY FART!!!

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Dlady27
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 509)
posted July 07, 2000 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dlady27     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 66764840
" uh oh, there is a hillbilly. run the other way" That flag just makes me think of a true redneck with overalls and no fucking teeth.

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Slopain
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 789)
posted July 07, 2000 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Slopain   Click Here to Email Slopain     Edit/Delete Message
Well I skimmed all the replies but when ever I see a confederate flag in someones room, tattooed to themselves, or hanging from the back of their car (especially pickups) I immedietly think racist, redneck, and/or white supremist. I live on the westcoast so I suppose anyone flying it out where you guys live may have a better reason to fly it - but around here it is a sign of racism for sure.

Slopain

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FlexB
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 481)
posted July 07, 2000 10:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FlexB   Click Here to Email FlexB     Edit/Delete Message UIN: 71392430
Did anyone see "South Park" the other night? They did an entire spoof of this same topic. They just let the kids decide if it should be taken down or not (since the "children are the future") It was kinda interesting.

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mightydog
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 322)
posted July 07, 2000 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mightydog   Click Here to Email mightydog     Edit/Delete Message
I could care less about any flag, up or down, I never paid it any attention. I could not help but think than when black activist wanted this flag down over a tremendous media coverage; would that not give more leverage to the antagonist group? If I knew what bothered you, then know what buttons to push. I think it give the confederate flag more umpf to antagonist groups. The intelligent thing to do would have remained silent about the flag. Material can only become evil when it is pesonified.

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cm3504jm
Amateur Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 93)
posted July 07, 2000 08:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cm3504jm   Click Here to Email cm3504jm     Edit/Delete Message
Did anyone know?

That the flag in question is a "battle" flag and was not the national flag of the Confederacy. That flag resembled The regular U.S. flag being red, white and blue with a circle of stars in the upper left representing the states in the Confederacy.

The Civil war was not really a civil war through definition, that is the Confederacy never wanted to overthrow the U.S. but only wanted autonomy from the federal government.

Txs guy,

I share your views that today, people are ignorant of historical events. I do wish that schools would do a better job of teaching U.S. history.

You would not believe it, but in my reenacting, people portraying Confederates are considered by the public to be rednecks, racists, and yes-hilbillys. I've done both and it never ceases to amaze me the dirty looks I get as a Confederate as opposed to a Union soldier. We're just acting out a role.

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"If you stand by the river long enough, you will watch the bodies of your enemies float by"

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Formula
Pro Bodybuilder
(Total posts: 221)
posted July 07, 2000 11:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Formula   Click Here to Email Formula     Edit/Delete Message
Here is a bump sticker I saw in back of a truck sporting the Confederate Flag

"Would the last American out of Fl. bring the Flag with them" Kind of nice no

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